We Go Again! The 2014/15 Premier League Thread

[The Special Juan]

First topic message reminder :

Probably much easier to get motivated to play for AC Milan than QPR. But I agree with Crimey (for once ), Taarabt should be fired for misconduct if this is true.

[mystiroakey]

Let's not forget Liverpool's start last season without suraez.

[Guest]

Champions League is a mere pipe dream Truss.

Another drawing board looms.

[Fernando]

Bring Back Rafa He'd make them defend properly

[lfc91]

4 points off the relegation zone, 18 off the top. Rodgers just proving what most knew but I was reluctant to believe, we were well and truly a 1 man team..

It's more than just Suarez though. Obviously losing him was a massive blow but the whole team in general is a shadow of last season's.

O without a doubt, there's problems all over the pitch but the main one, I feel, is in the dugout. As someone above has rightly pointed out BR got everything wrong today. Players, positioning, tactics, you name it he fecked it up! Most likely he is on borrowed time, fail to win on Wednesday and he is surely gone.(Getting harder and harder to argue against it aswell...)

[kingraf]

Don't think so. Like Arsenal, all they need is a ten game run. Arsenal probably have the better tools to go on such a run though. At least this week their decision to rest their star players against Madrid reaps it's rewards when they beat Ludogrets, and go one step closer to qualifying for the Champions league next year by winning it.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Let's not forget Liverpool's start last season without suraez.

Indeed, and Sturridge's injury is big too, but they appear weaker in every area of the pitch. People doubted Mignolet and I think we're being proved right, the transfer work has again been highlighted as Rodgers failed again this summer. People criticise Spurs' buys after Bale went, but there seemed some long term planning there. Lamela and Eriksen could be their best players for years, I doubt Balotelli, Lambert, Lallana or Can will be for Liverpool

[Fernando]

Hull XI: McGregor, Elmohamady, Robertson, Dawson, Davies, Huddlestone, Livermore, Ramirez, Brady, Ben Arfa, Jelavic
Subs: Harper, Rosenior, Chester, Meyler, Hernandez, Sagbo, Quinn

Tottenham XI: Lloris, Dier, Fazio, Vertonghen, Davies, Dembele, Mason, Eriksen, Lamela, Kane, Soldado
Subs: Vorm, Ball, Chiriches, Ceballos, Lennon, Paulinho, Stambouli

[Guest]

Let's not forget Liverpool's start last season without suraez.

Indeed, and Sturridge's injury is big too, but they appear weaker in every area of the pitch. People doubted Mignolet and I think we're being proved right, the transfer work has again been highlighted as Rodgers failed again this summer. People criticise Spurs' buys after Bale went, but there seemed some long term planning there. Lamela and Eriksen could be their best players for years, I doubt Balotelli, Lambert, Lallana or Can will be for Liverpool

They'll be sold then, such is the Spurs way.

[kingraf]

Indeed. To Madrid probably.

[LivinginItaly]

I think the big problem is liverpool are still trying to use the same tactics and formations as last year. However, without suarez and sturridge we don't have the players to make them work. Also am I the only one who thinks gerrard drops too deep. I know he is the holding midfielder but often he is too close to the centrebacks leaving a big gap between him and the rest of the diamond.

[Fernando]

Hull 1-0 Spuds - Livermore from 22 yards.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Rodgers won't change his style, or his beliefs, the man is too arrogant to do so. And ultimately like it did at reading, it'll cost him his job here.

Gerrard should not be starting in that Liverpool side

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Its hard to say Coutinho or Allen warranted their place above Gerrard though. I mean, hes not been good, but bit of a scapegoat at the moment. I'd wonder whether they might be better with Can, Lucas and Henderson as a three though.

Spurs likely will sell them, thats what they do, but they'll buy again. Its the same at Liverpool, if anyone gets notably good theyll be sold. Liverpool dont have the strength they once did, and whilst they arent easy (yet expensive) picking like Spurs to take players from, they are still there to be had.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

"@karlmatchett: BR "today not to do with Palace being physical, they played on counter. some of our young guys dont have experience. must find a way.""

The man is utterly deluded

[Dolphin Ziggler]

[kingraf]

On the bright side. Southampton's champions league credentials look even more realistic. Damage limitation week for us. United beating Arsenal was the preferred result (if a draw couldn't be had) as they'll continue to drop points anyway. Liverpool lost as Did the Hammers.
#We'reGoingToEurope
#TopSixOrBust
#InMonkWeTrust
#StillAboveArsenalAndLiverpool

[NickisBHAFC]

Hull down to 10. Gaston rightfully sent
Off.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Think the red was cheap myself

[JDizzle]

Slightly harsh. But you're asking for trouble if you kick out in anyway, so I've no real sympathy.

[NickisBHAFC]

Yeah I agree with that. Harry Kane with another goal! Bloke is a magnet with the goal

[NickisBHAFC]

How Livermore hasn't been booked there I'll never know.

[The Special Juan]

So Ramirez is sent off for something softer than Wilshere yesterday..........

[Gerry SA]

So when is everyone going to finally accept Brendan Rodgers is a dud and merely achieved second as Luis Suarez masked his limited managerial talent?

Throw in the ultimate hype-job, Raheem Sterling, who was bigged up as a world beater. Yet looks like another Andros Townsead...

[The Special Juan]

Sacked from Reading, did ok with Swansea to steal the Liverpool job. Swansea went onto better things and Suarez saved Brenda. That's it.

[Gerry SA]

Sacked from Reading, did ok with Swansea to steal the Liverpool job.  Swansea went onto better things and Suarez saved Brenda. That's it.

The Sturridge injury is used as a smokescreen as well. Much like a young Robin van Persie, Sturridge has a history of being a sick note...

[lfc91]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/brendan-rodgers-quotes-southampton-now-4681181

Will be a rough couple of weeks for BR but even I laughed when I read this! And I agree 100% with what he said, spend over 100 million and you should be challenging for the league...unless you buy 100mil of crap that is.

[Guest]

WTF is a pure goal?

[Ent]

He's a David Brent type figure really.

Clueless but done well to cowpat his way into football and into some big jobs.

[lfc91]

Was wondering that?? I can assure you that we concede goals of all types, so pure goal must just mean 'goal'..

[Guest]

Palace's first was one of those ones that, if the ball hits the post even a quarter of an inch either side, the rebound goes nowhere near Gayle (but why the f*ck was Bolasie allowed to get a shot off?).

The freekick was a thing of beauty but why the f*ck was Sykrtel manhandling a guy 5'9" to give it away in the first place?

However, my ire is reserved for Palace's second where every man and his dog was to blame for that particular f*cking travesty.

Absolutely shocking performance from Liverpool this weekend. Sterling looked particularly uninterested and even Coutinho was dreadful for about 70+ minutes until he finally started giving a f*ck. Even then no-one seemed remotely interested in making themselves available for the ball.

No-one seems to want the ball or do anything with it. Lost count of the number of times players passed it between themselves three and four times whilst going precisely NOWHERE. Glen Johnson should count his blessing that the club thought he deserved even a 50% drop in wages. Done absolutely nothing to warrant an extension on his contract but when you sit at home thinking, "We should bring Kolo on" you know things are starting to look desperate.

People criticizing Rodgers' tactics etc but the players just don't seems to give a sh!t. He dropped the non performers for the Real game but the message clearly hasn't sunk in that if you don't want to work for your spot you can sit on the f*cking bench or watch the game at home on TV or, failing that, f*ck off and play for another club.

Incredible that at least 70% of the squad don't seem to be interested in making an effort meaning Rodgers can't even fall back on the "I thought the team were magnificent and worked really hard without getting the result we deserved" line.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I think its fair to criticise Rodgers' tactics and team selection. There were a few in that Madrid game who acquitted themselves well and don't seem to have got a reward for it.

It also seems weird that Liverpool's best football last year came with two strikers yet Sturridge's injury has pretty much seen Rodgers use only one. Granted, Suarez's workrate meant you could lose a little security behind him, and his genius meant the risk was going to pay off 9/10, but I don't really see any of Liverpool's forwards as lone ones. It would be fine if the option was more security in midfield, but Sterling, Lallana and Coutinho combined is too many pegs in one round hole.

Borini isnt world class by any means, but he works hard and can score goals in this league. His movement off of Balotelli or Lambert would probably make both better players.

Its been to their detriment that Henderson has looked either tired or out of sorts. Lovren at least deserved a run in the team to settle in, but soon that grace period should be over. Gerrard is nowhere near the player he was, but is a bit of a scapegoat for an underperforming side. Least he makes a challenge and shows some guts, the rest don't.

Manquillo and Moreno are good prospects, but with a defence as shaky as it is I'm not sure young players with no Premier League experience was the right call.

[lfc91]

As Dolphin highlights, certain players do not seem to have been rewarded for a good performance. He seems to have it set in his head what players he wants to use and what formation, and just refuses to accept it isn't working.

In the papers today (not sure of the reliability) that the owners have said they remain 100% behind him which IMO is fair. As I have said before his performance last season has earned him this one (barring disaster obviously). However, if come Christmas we are out of the Champions league (looking more likely than us progressing) and we are still in and around 10th/11th with a sizeable gap between us and the top 4, then serious questions need to be addressed about whether he is up to the task.

The players obviously need to shoulder alot of the blame, as the majority have been truely awful. BR can only do so much but when they are on the pitch it is largely up to them. If i had my way Glen Johnson and Ballotelli would never set foot on the pitch in a liverpool shirt again. They bring nothing to the team and their performaces often tend to detract from the overall team performance. Sterling could do with a few games out. Possibly Gerrard aswell (although i agree he is being made scapegoat to an extent).

All in all, the next few weeks are vital to BR in terms of keeping his job long term. If we do crash out of the CL and continue to be poor in the league the best he can hope for is being allowed to see out this season before being replaced in the summer.(Although who would want the job is another question entirely...).

[guildfordbat]

Let's not forget Liverpool's start last season without suraez.

Indeed, and Sturridge's injury is big too, but they appear weaker in every area of the pitch. People doubted Mignolet and I think we're being proved right, the transfer work has again been highlighted as Rodgers failed again this summer. People criticise Spurs' buys after Bale went, but there seemed some long term planning there. Lamela and Eriksen could be their best players for years, I doubt Balotelli, Lambert, Lallana or Can will be for Liverpool

I don't claim that Mignolet is Liverpool's biggest concern (he isn't!) but I would seriously question whether he is good enough for what is required and expected.

A top team needs and benefits enormously from a top keeper. That's probably never been more effectively demonstrated in the Premier League than by Schmeichel at United. Before that - and I go back donkey's years - I remember Clough being ridiculed for spending a then world record fee of 270k to bring Shilton to Notts Forest early on in the 77/78 season. Six months later, Forest had won the League and Clough said of his number one, ''I would have paid almost any price for him''. Furthermore, Clough attributed 18 points of Forests' s tally to Shilton.

Back to present but riding on the back of Clough's comment - how many extra points is Mignloet getting his side? Not too many, I suspect. Whilst I wouldn't blame him for the three goals he conceded yesterday, I couldn't help but feel that we might well have seen a top modern keeper like De Gea pull off a super save and keep at least one of them out.

[Crimey]

Yeah basically Rodgers needs to grow a pair and start dropping people who aren't performing. Toure was exceptional in the Madrid game and has been rewarded with nothing, I'm not a big fan of his but Skrtel and Lovren have been very poor this year and neither deserves to start at all. Lucas did well in that game as well and might add a layer of security that's been missing, but has been given nothing. Lambert played last game but before then has been given nothing despite having more success in the Premier League than Balotelli ever has had. Borini as well has played decently enough to deserve a start. 

Sterling needs a rest, why Rodgers can't see this after doing it last year is beyond me. There is too much pressure on him at both Liverpool and England and he's becoming a marked man, while players obviously have to come to terms with that, it would make sense to let him start on the bench a few games, bring him on to run at the tired defence, build his confidence up a bit and also give reason for players to be worried more about Lallana and Coutinho who occupy similar spaces and have shown glimpses of quality.

I'm sure a lot will take it as Liverpool fans defending Gerrard for everything and anything but I really don't think he deserves the level of flack he gets for his performances, for me he hasn't been good but he hasn't been anywhere near one of the worst. He's playing with players lacking drive and confidence and a big part of his game is for players to be making the runs, taking the risks which just isn't happening meaning he can't be as influential. Don't think he lacks legs at all either, it's a totally lazy and unjust criticism, he's shown plenty of times he is capable of lasting 90 minutes and also keeping pace with some fast guys. 

Rodgers needs to be a bit humble (there's a first time for everything) take a step back and appoint a defensive coach, let them get the defence doing something good for once and maybe realise he's being stubborn. He's got nothing to lose now, keeping the same side and trying the same things are only going to get him the sack sooner, he's better off changing things, maybe trying something new which he finds so easy to do when things are going well and instil some confidence back in the side. Separate those that show passion from those that don't, that's what's needed as well right now. Balotelli cannot start when he comes back from injury, not a chance. Markovic should maybe be given a shot, Coutinho and Lallana given a bit more freedom to roam rather than stuck on the wing or in central midfield. Can to be rewarded. Lucas to be stuck in there to give a bit more solidity. He needs to take his medicine and understand that you can't just keep trying the same things and expecting different things to happen, he needs to grow a spine and try and be proactive.

[Crimey]

Let's not forget Liverpool's start last season without suraez.

Indeed, and Sturridge's injury is big too, but they appear weaker in every area of the pitch. People doubted Mignolet and I think we're being proved right, the transfer work has again been highlighted as Rodgers failed again this summer. People criticise Spurs' buys after Bale went, but there seemed some long term planning there. Lamela and Eriksen could be their best players for years, I doubt Balotelli, Lambert, Lallana or Can will be for Liverpool

I don't claim that Mignolet is Liverpool's biggest concern (he isn't!) but I would seriously question whether he is good enough for what is required and expected.

A top team needs and benefits enormously from a top keeper. That's probably never been more effectively demonstrated in the Premier League than by Schmeichel at United. Before that - and I go back donkey's years - I remember Clough being ridiculed for spending a then world record fee of 270k to bring Shilton to Notts Forest early on in the 77/78 season. Six months later, Forest had won the League and Clough said of his number one, ''I would have paid almost any price for him''. Furthermore, Clough attributed 18 points of Forests' s tally to Shilton.

Back to present but riding on the back of Clough's comment - how many extra points is Mignloet getting his side? Not too many, I suspect. Whilst I wouldn't blame him for the three goals he conceded yesterday, I couldn't help but feel that we might well have seen a top modern keeper like De Gea pull off a super save and keep at least one of them out.

For me Mignolet's shot stopping is fine, it's the one thing he is actually good at. His organisation of the defence is non-existent, he shies away from the responsibility. He's young, but that's no excuse, De Gea and Courtois do not have that problem. His distribution is awful, to go from Reina to him is depressing, can't start moves from Mignolet because he doesn't have the accuracy at all. Coming for crosses he is terrible and he makes the defence nervous, if he's not any good at coming for the ball, which he isn't, he should stay on his line and let the defenders deal with it, without thinking that the flying sack of potatoes is going to come crashing over the heads.

[GSC]

The real problem is no Suarez and Sturridge. Suarez being a world class player elevated those around him, and bought them more breathing room. Now those players are being asked to step up their games in his absence, and being found out for essentially being a group of decent rather than good players.

if Sturridge ever returns, it'll help, but Liverpool need to have a serious look at their recruitment policy, because the players signed, don't match up to the amount paid

[guildfordbat]

Let's not forget Liverpool's start last season without suraez.

Indeed, and Sturridge's injury is big too, but they appear weaker in every area of the pitch. People doubted Mignolet and I think we're being proved right, the transfer work has again been highlighted as Rodgers failed again this summer. People criticise Spurs' buys after Bale went, but there seemed some long term planning there. Lamela and Eriksen could be their best players for years, I doubt Balotelli, Lambert, Lallana or Can will be for Liverpool

I don't claim that Mignolet is Liverpool's biggest concern (he isn't!) but I would seriously question whether he is good enough for what is required and expected.

A top team needs and benefits enormously from a top keeper. That's probably never been more effectively demonstrated in the Premier League than by Schmeichel at United. Before that - and I go back donkey's years - I remember Clough being ridiculed for spending a then world record fee of 270k to bring Shilton to Notts Forest early on in the 77/78 season. Six months later, Forest had won the League and Clough said of his number one, ''I would have paid almost any price for him''. Furthermore, Clough attributed 18 points of Forests' s tally to Shilton.

Back to present but riding on the back of Clough's comment - how many extra points is Mignloet getting his side? Not too many, I suspect. Whilst I wouldn't blame him for the three goals he conceded yesterday, I couldn't help but feel that we might well have seen a top modern keeper like De Gea pull off a super save and keep at least one of them out.

For me Mignolet's shot stopping is fine, it's the one thing he is actually good at. His organisation of the defence is non-existent, he shies away from the responsibility. He's young, but that's no excuse, De Gea and Courtois do not have that problem. His distribution is awful, to go from Reina to him is depressing, can't start moves from Mignolet because he doesn't have the accuracy at all. Coming for crosses he is terrible and he makes the defence nervous, if he's not any good at coming for the ball, which he isn't, he should stay on his line and let the defenders deal with it, without thinking that the flying sack of potatoes is going to come crashing over the heads.

I didn't want to go into too much detail about Mignolet. Couple of reasons.

One. I haven't seen him enough and almost certainly not as much as some of you here.

Two. More particularly, I didn't want to suggest he's ''a rubbish keeper''. What I was really trying to get over is that he strikes me as ''pretty average''. Nothing terrible about that obviously but it's not as good (or as valuable) as Liverpool want and expect.

I do though certainly feel that his distribution is poor. Based on my own viewings, I also wouldn't put him in the top tier of current shot stoppers.

[Guest]

The real problem is no Suarez and Sturridge. Suarez being a world class player elevated those around him, and bought them more breathing room. Now those players are being asked to step up their games in his absence, and being found out for essentially being a group of decent rather than good players.

if Sturridge ever returns, it'll help, but Liverpool need to have a serious look at their recruitment policy, because the players signed, don't match up to the amount paid

I'd struggle to name those who HAVE actually stepped up their game. It's almost as it they think, "Suarez has gone, what's the point?"

Carragher showed that you don't have to be the very best to get results if you show a bit of heart, drive, desire, passion commitment, belief etc but there seems to be nothing of that at the minute.

[kwinigolfer]

Is it just me or does Gerrard play a helluva lot better, and with more freedom, when Lucas is in the team to do the donkey work?

Rodgers hasn't got his full-backs sorted either, none of the present crew capable of playing the passing game that used to be the hallmark of Rodgers' teams. Add to that the lack of a commanding centre-half and you've got a team that will always be on the back foot - Sterling playing way too deep yesterday, Coutinho looking like he couldn't figure out his role and no energy from whoever was to put in Henderson's mileage - and that ain't ever going to be Lallana (who is a great player, but not in a Henderson-type role).

Agree with guildford about Mignolet - careless distribution, never a dominant force in a penalty area sorely lacking dominance from anyone. Middle of the road for the Prem. Would think the Chelsea bench has the short-term answer.

[lfc91]

Another thing, people point to the fact we have spent over 100mil on players. While we have spent that, it isn't a true reflection of the players bought. Paid drastically over the odds for most, which means in reality we got about 40-50milsworth of players that just happend to cost north of 100mil. If we had spend 100mil on players worth there price tag we wouldn't be anywhere near this level of awfulness...

[Crimey]

Yeah nobody has stepped up the game, I remember saying as far back as 2011 that Suarez's work ethic and drive dragged others to be better, my case in point at the time was Andy Carroll and it proved to be one of the main driving forces of the team last year. In addition he was absolutely fantastic at being unselfish and making runs that dragged defences all over the place giving Sterling and Coutinho space, opening up channels for Gerrard to pass into and meaning it was more difficult for teams to create counter-attacks. Without wanting to make Suarez seem godly, he was such an important piece of the team and the real core of the way the team was playing that it really needed other players to try and drive on.

The worst part now is that Sturridge will struggle when coming back, he hasn't played for a long time now and the amount of pressure on him will be immense and I'm not sure that's fair. Borini is somebody that could at least be the player to drag others all over the place, the problem is for me he needs to be partnering with somebody, be that Lambert or god forbid Balotelli because against Real Madrid away from home, Borini was running about a lot, but leaving nobody in the dangerous areas.

[Crimey]

I also think despite Rodgers getting great success from a side that basically ignored possession and was about trying to get to to the goal as quickly as possible, he has reverted to type in a kind of panic and started trying to play the possession which was a disaster in his first year at the club and not something I believe is effective or even plays to the strengths of the players we have.

Sterling and Coutinho are players who like to get the ball, turn and run and have players running off of them, Lallana is another player who dribbles, Gerrard wants to stretch teams not allow them to get back into space. Not sure there are enough players with the patience to play a slow passing game. I do think there is enough pace and work-rate in the squad as a whole to play a similar game to last year and it should work. It worked initially against Chelsea and then a set-piece goal and retreated back into a shell.

[GSC]

The real problem is no Suarez and Sturridge. Suarez being a world class player elevated those around him, and bought them more breathing room. Now those players are being asked to step up their games in his absence, and being found out for essentially being a group of decent rather than good players.

if Sturridge ever returns, it'll help, but Liverpool need to have a serious look at their recruitment policy, because the players signed, don't match up to the amount paid

I'd struggle to name those who HAVE actually stepped up their game. It's almost as it they think, "Suarez has gone, what's the point?"

Carragher showed that you don't have to be the very best to get results if you show a bit of heart, drive, desire, passion commitment, belief etc but there seems to be nothing of that at the minute.

Yeah that's the problem. Nobody's taken responsibility

[Fernando]

Aston Villa: Guzan, Hutton, Okore, Clark, Cissokho, Cleverley, Westwood, Sanchez, N'Zogbia, Agbonlahor, Weimann. Subs: Bacuna, Cole, Richardson, Bent, Given, Lowton, Grealish.

Southampton: Forster, Clyne, Fonte, Alderweireld, Bertrand, Tadic, Wanyama, Schneiderlin, Long, Pelle, Mane. Subs: Kelvin Davis, Yoshida, Gardos, Cork, Mayuka, Reed, Targett.

[Fernando]

Aston Villa 1-0 Southampton - Agbonlahor

Big boo boo by Forster. Came when never getting there, Alderweireld would of cleared it comfortably but left it for Forster.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

That was always Forster's issue when he was at Nodge like I've said before...doesn't command well and is slow off his lime. Great shot stopper yes, but other areas of his game leave a lot to be desired.

[westisbest]

Happy enough. But only half way there.

Doing ok, but need to cut the same old silly mistakes.

We needed the first goal.
Lets get the second.

[NickisBHAFC]

Gabby Abonlahor has been outstanding tonight.

[NickisBHAFC]

Weimann should of just wrapped it up there

[Fernando]

Villa 1-1 Southampton - Clyne

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