Bok squad for November.

Heyneke Meyer has announced his Springbok squad for the November tour.

Front Row
Robbie Coetzee (Xerox Golden Lions) - Hooker, uncapped
Bismarck du Plessis (Cell C Sharks) - Hooker, 66 Test caps
Jannie du Plessis (Cell C Sharks) - Prop, 60 Test caps
Tendai Mtawarira (Cell C Sharks) - Prop, 61 Test caps
Trevor Nyakane (Toyota FS Cheetahs) - Prop, 9 Test caps
Coenie Oosthuizen (Toyota FS Cheetahs) - Prop, 17 Test caps
Julian Redelinghuys (Xerox Golden Lions) - Prop, uncapped
Gurthrö Steenkamp (Toulouse, France) - Prop, 52 Test caps
Adriaan Strauss (Toyota FS Cheetahs) - Hooker, 40 Test caps

Second Row
Bakkies Botha (Toulon, France) - Lock, 83 Test caps
Lodewyk de Jager (Toyota FS Cheetahs) - Lock, 7 Test caps
Eben Etzebeth (DHL Western Province) - Lock, 29 Test caps
Victor Matfield (Vodacom Blue Bulls) - Lock, 117 Test caps

Back Row
Schalk Burger (Suntory, Japan) - Loose forward, 73 Test caps
Nizaam Carr (DHL Western Province) - Loose forward, uncapped
Marcell Coetzee (Cell C Sharks) - Loose forward, 22 Test caps
Jaco Kriel (Xerox Golden Lions) - Loose forward, uncapped
Teboho “Oupa” Mohoje (Toyota FS Cheetahs) - Loose forward, 3 Test caps
Duane Vermeulen (DHL Western Province) - No 8, 25 Test caps
Warren Whiteley (Xerox Golden Lions) - Loose forward, 2 Test caps

Halfbacks
Francois Hougaard (Vodacom Blue Bulls) - Scrumhalf, 32 Test caps
Ruan Pienaar (Ulster, N Ireland) - Scrumhalf, 80 Test caps
Cobus Reinach (Cell C Sharks) - Scrumhalf, 2 Test caps

FLyhalves
Johan Goosen (Racing Metro, France) - Fullback / Flyhalf, 5 Test caps
Patrick Lambie (Cell C Sharks) - Flyhalf / Fullback, 36 Test caps
Handré Pollard (Vodacom Blue Bulls) - Flyhalf, 6 Test caps
Morné Steyn (Stade Francais, France) - Flyhalf, 59 Test caps

Midfield
Damian De Allende (DHL Western Province) - Centre / Wing, 2 Test caps
Jean de Villiers (captain, DHL Western Province) - Centre, 102 Test caps
Jan Serfontein (Vodacom Blue Bulls) - Centre, 16 Test caps

Back Three
Bryan Habana (Toulon, France) - Wing, 103 Test caps
Cornal Hendricks (Toyota FS Cheetahs) - Wing, 9 Test caps
Willie le Roux (Toyota FS Cheetahs) - Fullback / Wing, 21 Test caps
Lwazi Mvovo (Cell C Sharks) - Wing, 9 Test caps
JP Pietersen (Panasonic, Japan) - Centre / Wing, 56 Test caps
Seabelo Senatla (SA Sevens / DHL WP) - Wing, uncapped

The “What are you thinking?”
Gurthrö Steenkamp (Toulouse, France) - Prop, 52 Test caps

The “Wish you weren’t here and please age gracefully”.
Victor Matfield (Vodacom Blue Bulls) - Lock, 117 Test caps
Ruan Pienaar (Ulster, N Ireland) - Scrumhalf, 80 Test caps
Morné Steyn (Stade Francais, France) - Flyhalf, 59 Test caps

The “If you want them to last till next year then leave them at home”.
Jannie du Plessis (Cell C Sharks) - Prop, 60 Test caps
Jean de Villiers (captain, DHL Western Province) - Centre, 102 Test caps

The “Congratulations boys, hope you get some time on the field”
Julian Redelinghuys (Xerox Golden Lions) - Prop, uncapped
Jaco Kriel (Xerox Golden Lions) - Loose forward, uncapped
Nizaam Carr (DHL Western Province) - Loose forward, uncapped
Seabelo Senatla (SA Sevens / DHL WP) - Wing, uncapped

The “Didn’t see that coming”
Robbie Coetzee (Xerox Golden Lions) - Hooker, uncapped

It sounds like Meyer is considering Johan Goosen as a back up at Fullback for Willie le Roux which is not a bad option, apparently Goosen is playing most of his rugby at Fullback in France, it can also help to reduce injuries as Goosen has been very injury prone at Flyhalf.

Ruan is a good bench option and can play many positions. 9,10 even others. You need experience in a touring squad.

Morne... really required? His kicking is good but if he ain't going to feature in the test 23 then what's the point? Better to give the spot to  Demetri or Boshoff.

I guess demetri should simply go abroad as obviously Meyer doesn't rate him... go and earn so money.

Decent ish squad. Thin at centre stocks though Id have brought in JDJ as a specialist besides he's a Bok already. Glad Steyn Kickbot3000 is there as backup , what with Pollard and Lambie prone to missing the odd kick every once in a while . Goosen at fullback ? Interesting one would be quite useful to have a big boot and attacking prowess at the back should Le Roux have an off day. Forward wise Flanks bit less experienced than we'd want but they'll do , locks got the old guard and new guard in there dont see any problem . Props , i'd lose Jannie Penalty Du Plessis

Bullsbok wrote:Decent ish squad. Thin at centre stocks though Id have brought in JDJ as a specialist besides he's a Bok already. Glad Steyn Kickbot3000 is there as backup , what with Pollard and Lambie prone to missing the odd kick every once in a while . Goosen at fullback ? Interesting one would be quite useful to have a big boot and attacking prowess at the back should Le Roux have an off day. Forward wise Flanks bit less experienced than we'd want but they'll do , locks got the old guard and new guard in there dont see any problem . Props , i'd lose Jannie Penalty Du Plessis

The thing is... steyn is fine... but only if you play him. If Pollard and Lambie are the test team 10s then Morne is literally cleaning the boots at halftime. For me its a waste. Say Pollard gets injured. Great, he's already in Europe, call him up. If not then for me I think its a bad decision.

fa0019 wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:Decent ish squad. Thin at centre stocks though Id have brought in JDJ as a specialist besides he's a Bok already. Glad Steyn Kickbot3000 is there as backup , what with Pollard and Lambie prone to missing the odd kick every once in a while . Goosen at fullback ? Interesting one would be quite useful to have a big boot and attacking prowess at the back should Le Roux have an off day. Forward wise Flanks bit less experienced than we'd want but they'll do , locks got the old guard and new guard in there dont see any problem . Props , i'd lose Jannie Penalty Du Plessis

The thing is... steyn is fine... but only if you play him. If Pollard and Lambie are the test team 10s then Morne is literally cleaning the boots at halftime. For me its a waste. Say Pollard gets injured. Great, he's already in Europe, call him up. If not then for me I think its a bad decision.

I agree that he takes up room that should have probably gone to another center , Preferably a specialist 13 but Steyn would be a comforting option to have especially on a cold rainy windy night in Dublin when the game is being one or lost by your kicker.Pollard for some unknown reason seems to miss touch twice a game , its absurd . Lambie despite his last minute Ellis Park kick is still a dicey kicker as he proved earlier in that game and Goosen is injury prone so cannot be completely relied on

Bullsbok wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:Decent ish squad. Thin at centre stocks though Id have brought in JDJ as a specialist besides he's a Bok already. Glad Steyn Kickbot3000 is there as backup , what with Pollard and Lambie prone to missing the odd kick every once in a while . Goosen at fullback ? Interesting one would be quite useful to have a big boot and attacking prowess at the back should Le Roux have an off day. Forward wise Flanks bit less experienced than we'd want but they'll do , locks got the old guard and new guard in there dont see any problem . Props , i'd lose Jannie Penalty Du Plessis

The thing is... steyn is fine... but only if you play him. If Pollard and Lambie are the test team 10s then Morne is literally cleaning the boots at halftime. For me its a waste. Say Pollard gets injured. Great, he's already in Europe, call him up. If not then for me I think its a bad decision.

I agree that he takes up room that should have probably gone to another center , Preferably a specialist 13 but Steyn would be a comforting option to have especially on a cold rainy windy night in Dublin when the game is being one or lost by your kicker.Pollard for some unknown reason seems to miss touch twice a game , its absurd . Lambie despite his last minute Ellis Park kick is still a dicey kicker as he proved earlier in that game and Goosen is injury prone so cannot be completely relied on

Yeah, if he tours he has to be in 23. Agree on that bull.

Every time I see a Springbok squad without Flip Van Der Merwe I question it, but this time I'm not that displeased as it means he can't hurt England

Undervalued player Flip. Was the best lineout jumper in 2013 if I'm correct. Lost something like one lineout in bok colours throughout the season.

Flip is injured, he is out until next year, so is Pieter Steph du Toit, Marcell v d Merwe, Arno Botha and Frans Malherbe.

WIllem ALberts might make the tour later

I am trying to understand Meyer's thinking here.

If you look at a world cup squad of 30 players and 14 backs.

His first choice backline at this stage is likely.

9. Fourie du Preez
10. Handre Pollard
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jan Serfontein
14. Cornal Hendricks
15. Wilie le Roux.

Not sure where he sees JP and Jaque FOurie fit in.

BUt anyway that leaves seven positions.

He will take Pienaar, he will take Hougaard, he will take Morne, he will take Lambie, He will take JP Pietersen.

That leaves 2 spots.

At this point de Allende, Jaque Fourie, Johan Goosen, Senatla (I doubt it) Mvovo will fight it out

I think JP will slot back in eventually into the team.

I also imagine Engelbrecht will come back into favour. If not I don't think SA can mount a serious challenge without a genuine 13 in place.

Biltong wrote:I am trying to understand Meyer's thinking here.

If you look at a world cup squad of 30 players and 14 backs.

His first choice backline at this stage is likely.

9. Fourie du Preez
10. Handre Pollard
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jan Serfontein
14. Cornal Hendricks
15. Wilie le Roux.

Not sure where he sees JP and Jaque FOurie fit in.

BUt anyway that leaves seven positions.

He will take Pienaar, he will take Hougaard, he will take Morne, he will take Lambie, He will take JP Pietersen.

That leaves 2 spots.

At this point de Allende, Jaque Fourie, Johan Goosen, Senatla (I doubt it) Mvovo will fight it out

JPP will fit in at wing when needed especially against big wingers like Savea,North who Hendricks cant handle as shown by the Ellis Park test . Theres too many flyhalves imo , Goosen shouldn't be in the picture. He made the decision to go abroad when he wasnt yet a guaranteed starter , they should reward the likes of De allende and Mvovo over the foreign players

Goosen was a little naïve in leaving. It was a bad move because to be honest, in talent terms he is the player SA has been waiting for... for as long as I can remember.

Poor old Goosen will be the nearly man I reckon. Had the chance to take the Bok 10 jersey by the scruff of the neck but couldn't bring his Cheetahs form to the table and is now firmly behind a brilliant Pollard, a rejuvenated Lambie (I can't stress enough how much that kick will do for his confidence) and the experienced Steyn who is still not a bad alternative in a tight one.

The Boks have a brakepad that is wearing very thin in my opinion.

That brakepad is Victor Matfield, Morne Steyn and Fourie du Preez, I think you could include Jean de Villiers to some extent.

BUt the first three mentioned alongside John SMit was the senior players that dictated terms to Pieter de Villiers, they were the player power that dictated how we played the game from 2008-2011.

We will not move on until they are gone.

Biltong wrote:The Boks have a brakepad that is wearing very thin in my opinion.

That brakepad is Victor Matfield, Morne Steyn and Fourie du Preez, I think you could include Jean de Villiers to some extent.

BUt the first three mentioned alongside John SMit was the senior players that dictated terms to Pieter de Villiers, they were the player power that dictated how we played the game from 2008-2011.

We will not move on until they are gone.

Boks are fickle fans , those three also happen to have be the main catalysts of some vital wins in those three years including but not limited to whitewashing the All blacks , BIL tour wins and some memorable wins against Wales and England

How are you on du Preez Bilt? Personally I think he's still got it but since he's an alpha 9 I think his approach will be in conflict with Pollard who is an alpha 10. Steyn obviously is a great foil for du Preez as du Preez runs the show. But he'll have to take a back seat with Pollard for the good of the team IMO. I think the Boks are so much more dangerous this way as the playmaker is away from the ruck and closer to the gamebreaking SA backs who may have been a bit far away from the playmaker in the past to have the impact they should. Du Preez is still great under pressure but I think guys like Louw and Vermeulen can boss the ruck to the extent that a 9 who serves rather than dictates can be accommodated to give Pollard the space and authority to flourish.

Bullsbok, for a moment try not to be a Bulls supporter and think in what year we are in.

We have moved on from 2009, it is five years later and as has been proven, there is a new era for bok rugby waiting if we can release those shackles of the past. these guys have all been hero's for many SA fans, same as Juan Smith, Danie Rossouw, and many others, but their time has passed.

Disney, if I had my choice I would give Meyer an extention of his contract until 2019, but one condition, the following players have played their last test for SA, Bakkies Botha, Victor Matfield, Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar, MOrne Steyn, Gurthro Steenkamp, Jean de Villiers, Jaque Fourie and Frans Steyn.

And my final condition would be no overseas players.

Bullsbok wrote:

Biltong wrote:The Boks have a brakepad that is wearing very thin in my opinion.

That brakepad is Victor Matfield, Morne Steyn and Fourie du Preez, I think you could include Jean de Villiers to some extent.

BUt the first three mentioned alongside John SMit was the senior players that dictated terms to Pieter de Villiers, they were the player power that dictated how we played the game from 2008-2011.

We will not move on until they are gone.

Boks are fickle fans , those three also happen to have be the main catalysts of some vital wins in those three years including but not limited to whitewashing the All blacks , BIL tour wins and some memorable wins against Wales and England

The best thing about NZ is that they don't rely on experience. It counts little to them.

If a youngster is better.... they drop the oldie. They tell him frankly that his career is over and to go and make some money in Europe/Japan.

In SA they keep on hawking back to experienced players in the hope of short term gains... but with massive long term implications.

Say you have a chap like Matfield who you just can't take away his jersey from him... Well all the games he plays is preventing a youth from gaining vital experience.

Come the RWC when this youth is now ready, he's not experienced enough and a slower, less able Victor gets the jersey... which hinders the boks.

Bullsbok wrote:

Biltong wrote:The Boks have a brakepad that is wearing very thin in my opinion.

That brakepad is Victor Matfield, Morne Steyn and Fourie du Preez, I think you could include Jean de Villiers to some extent.

BUt the first three mentioned alongside John SMit was the senior players that dictated terms to Pieter de Villiers, they were the player power that dictated how we played the game from 2008-2011.

We will not move on until they are gone.

Boks are fickle fans , those three also happen to have be the main catalysts of some vital wins in those three years including but not limited to whitewashing the All blacks , BIL tour wins and some memorable wins against Wales and England

One minute you are a legend, the next you are a liability. That's sport. Its cruel but coaches need to be strong and at the moment Meyer has been very obtuse about short term fillers hurting long term prospects.

No doubt he will get to a RWC SF and lose to NZ and say... well I only lost to NZ to SARU, who wouldn't? I deserve another 4 years.... when in truth he had the resources to really make a mark and develop a real team... not simply throw out caps to the likes of yesterday's men in Du Preez, Morne, Schalk, Jannie, Bakkies, Victor, Juan, JDV, Fourie etc.

Matfield's a weird one for me-you can still see class in all that he does but he's not quite the dominant figure of old. Top 5 in SA? Maybe-but I think his influence may have waned sufficiently to have him replaced next year. So there is justification for the screaming for his head. He's one of the best lineout forwards of all time and has terrorised NZ on occasion but the last two tests I actually think we were working him out as the game went on. Coles is a brilliant thrower, Read makes great calls and NZ have more options.

I think JDV is good enough to still be there and his mana will be good for SA at the WC. But you have to plan for the sh!t hitting the fan-Carter went down and we planned for it. Who'll step up in case of injury to these big names?

FA it took NZ a while to get that right. The 91 WC is a classic example.

disneychilly wrote:Matfield's a weird one for me-you can still see class in all that he does but he's not quite the dominant figure of old. Top 5 in SA? Maybe-but I think his influence may have waned sufficiently to have him replaced next year. So there is justification for the screaming for his head. He's one of the best lineout forwards of all time and has terrorised NZ on occasion but the last two tests I actually think we were working him out as the game went on. Coles is a brilliant thrower, Read makes great calls and NZ have more options.

I think JDV is good enough to still be there and his mana will be good for SA at the WC. But you have to plan for the sh!t hitting the fan-Carter went down and we planned for it. Who'll step up in case of injury to these big names?

FA it took NZ a while to get that right. The 91 WC is a classic example.

I think 91 was the one time NZ went in with chaps who were so to speak over the hill.  In 87 they were forced into the overhaul by the cavaliers tour. 95 I think the French tour the year before set the cat amongst the pigeons.

I also think SA managed Frans Steyn wrong. They should have sent Jean packing a while back and built the side around Frans. Made him the focal point of the team. That's what he required.

He was the 12 who should have been playing now. But as much to his own fault moving away as much to his versatility playing him all over the park hurt his chances of cementing the 12 jersey from 2008 onwards.

Disagree FA, after the 2007 RWC Frans Steyn immediately left for France, Jean went to Munster for the 2008 season and came back.

Biltong wrote:Disagree FA, after the 2007 RWC Frans Steyn immediately left for France, Jean went to Munster for the 2008 season and came back.

He has to take some part of the blame sure... but he left part due to his greed, part to SARU's obtuse vision that he was the man to take over the 12 jersey. Had he been fit for the KO stages in 2011 he would have had the jersey.

For instance... NZ would never had allowed Frans to get away with what he did. They wouldn't have got rid of him... they would have managed him better.

That's NZ's best attribute. They are very frank about their players but also take care of the ones they value.

How would NZ have managed him?

You get back from a RWC and your 19 year old star tells you he has signed a big French contract?

They would have kicked him under the a..e

Biltong wrote:How would NZ have managed him?

You get back from a RWC and your 19 year old star tells you he has signed a big French contract?

They would have kicked him under the a..e

For once i agree . Frans Steyn got too big too quickly and believed his own hype .Yes he was good but he was also part of a very good backline . I dont think he was so special that he could leave for france at such a young age without first making himself the guaranteed first choice in his position .

Biltong, I think Goosen started 4 times at 10 and once at 15 for racing so far in the T14... in the 2 games I saw him play (as flyhalf) he looked great at times but seems like a confindence type of player. Am surprised Morne Steyn is still in France though...bit of waste to use him in the 2nd tier european competition.

Biltong wrote:How would NZ have managed him?

You get back from a RWC and your 19 year old star tells you he has signed a big French contract?

They would have kicked him under the a..e

Throw 750K eur at a 20 yr old from bloem and it would take a brave man to say no... however where SARU, where his agents, where his family should have stepped in and said... hold your horses, money will come. Get yourself set in first.

Agents only cared about their commission. He was badly managed and its plagued him ever since.

Could have gone down as a bok great... now we see him only as a briefly bright spark which has now past.

Quite excited to see Senatla play (probably won't). Kid's got proper after burners. Only 80kg, so probably isn't going to bulk in time to be a safe defensive option in the world cup, but I expect him to do well, given the opportunity here.

Also - insert my regular moan about centre here.

We been waiting for some speed in the wings since Habana dropped down a little and Nokwe graced the field prior to getting injured.... its been a while.

weight isn't the be all and end all about tackling on the wings. Its technique and making sure you take your man.

Shane Williams rarely missed a tackle, as did Jason Robinson (can't remember him ever missing one to be honest).  

Needs time but come the end of the RWC15 I imagine with Habana retired he will be in the mix.

The squads of teams announced for the AI`s perform several functions giving fringe
players a chance.Working out your best combinations and covering for injured players
they may have no relationship to RWC squads.

This Bok squad can`t comment on those players I know little of but Morne Steyn is
your comfort blanket.A typical Bok 10 a goalkicker,since the 3 alternatives have
hardly started he1s insurance.

Pollard is the latest"wunderkind"who could playing in France or Japan by 2015 and still
picked,the case of both having and eating your cake.

I expect most sides in RWC 2015 in UK will play typical risk free RWC style Rugby and
probably win using it.

Are guys like Goosen and Steyn available for your final tour match? (outside the IRB window).

No.