Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November

First topic message reminder :

In six days time Ireland will host South Africa in their first test of the November tours. South Africa will have to lift themselves for this one as the standard under Meyer has ben exemplary in Europe, he is yet to lose a test match and the Six Nations champions gets first shot at breaking Meyer's unbeaten streak over the Six Nations teams.

It seems both teams are effected by injuries so their depth will be severely tested.

South African players unavailable due to injury.

Props - Marcel v d Merwe, Frans Malherbe
Hooker - Schalk Brits, Callie Visagie
Locks - Pieter Steph du Toit, Flip v d Merwe
Back Row - Frans Louw, Willem Alberts, Siya Kolisi, Arno Botha
Halfback - Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar (Pending a fitness test)
Midfield - Jaque Fourie

Irish players unavailable due to injury.
Props - Healy, Moore, Ross (Questionable)
Hooker - Cronin, Best (questionable)
Locks - Tuohy, Ryan
Back Row - Henderson, Murphy, O'Brien
Halfback -
Flyhalf - Sexton (Questionable)
Midfield - Darcy (questionable)
Back Three - Kearney, Earls, Trimble, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Bowe (questionable)

Ireland has been rather successful against South Africa in the last decade, managing wins in 2004, 2006 and 2009.

South Africa 31 - 17 Ireland
South Africa 26 - 17 Ireland
Ireland 17 - 12 South Africa
Ireland 32 - 15 South Africa
Ireland 15 - 10 South Africa
Ireland 21 - 23 South Africa
Ireland 12 - 16 South Africa

Likely matchday 23 for South Africa.

1. Tendai Mtwarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Jannie du PLessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Victor Matfield
6. Marcell Coetzee
7. Oupa Mohoje
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Handre Pollard
11. Brya Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jan Serfontein
14. Cornal Hendricks
15. Willie le Roux.

Subs
16. Coenie Oosthuizen
17. Adriaan Strauss
18. Julian Redelinghuys
19. Bakkies Botha
20. Schalk Burger
21. Cobus Reinach
22. Johan Goosen
23. Patrick Lambie/Damien de Allende

Likely Irish matchday 23. (Help please)

Ireland will be keen to beat the Springboks, even though they are unlikely to meet them in earlier rounds of the RWC it will give them validation and confidence for the Rugby World Cup. Under their new coach I expect them to throw the ball around and attempt to run the SPringboks off their feet, Ireland is also more used to the conditions and could use that to their advantage, I suspect the territorial game will be part of their plans.

It is easier sad than done though, the only team in recent years that managed to run the Springboks off their feet was New Zealand, and that was at altitude. South Africa these days play more adventurous rugby and at a great pace as well, newcomer Handre POllard will be on his first trip to Europe, so it might take him a while to adapt, but once on song he will be the danger man, South Africa attacks a lot flatter without Morne Steyn which does provide more hesitation in opposition defences and creates more space for their outside backs.

One issue with South Africa this season has been their inconsistency in performances, and they will have to be on song from the start.

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has warned his team they will need to be at their best if they are to keep their unbeaten record under his management in the northern hemisphere intact.

Meyer singled out the team’s first fixture against Ireland as a crucial one to kick off the team’s four week tour, and one which is the most tricky of all their fixtures.

The Boks know they cannot focus on the Twickenham showdown before getting past the tricky Irish, who have been a team that has plagued them at this time of year under previous coaches.

The Boks will know all too well how a poor opening performance can set the trend for the tour, and with chances to experiment getting less and less ahead of the World Cup, it is imperative that the team kick off the tour on a high note.

“We have a proud record and we haven’t lost a game there. But we have a proud record and this is probably the toughest tour we have faced to the Northern Hemisphere. I truly believe Ireland is an unbelievable team, they were unlucky not to beat the All Blacks last year.

“They’ve got a great coaching staff, a lot of in-form players and their defence is great. They’ve got a good kicking game in those conditions."

That's it boys, enjoy the discussion.

GunsGerms wrote:I was already scratching my head when he was offered a central contract without ever wearing a green jumper.

To keep him in Ulster who needed him badly. He probably would have got a few NZ caps around the time he signed his last contract as nearly every 13 in New Zealand was injured and Conrad Smith was taking a sabatical.

The reason why I think he will be on the bench is because there would be blue murder if Henshaw wasn't given the chance first, he is very suitable to have on the bench and not unusual for new caps to get their first one off the bench.

He could possibly start against Australia then.

GunsGerms wrote:I was already scratching my head when he was offered a central contract without ever wearing a green jumper.

This is true although he is without doubt a very classy 15 and in his final year in NZ was one of the outstanding players at outside centre. He since has shown the class from fullback but has definately no hit such heights from 13 with Ulster. Perhaps with a different team dynamic surrounding him he'll perform more like he did back then but it's a bit of a gamble to say the least.

When is the team due to be announced?

There quite a few question mark on several positions:

1. Is playing Tighthead? Ross? Archer? Ah You?

2. Is Jonny 100%? Who is his back up?

3. Centres?

4. Fullback? Is Kearney going to be risked?

5. Most of the bench isn't certain either.

Normally you know what you are getting with Ireland selections, but this one will be one of the hardest to call in years.

The SA team is announced today aparently. Not sure about Ireland.

Actually it has already been announced:

15 Willie le Roux (21 caps, 35 points)
14 Cornal Hendricks (9 caps, 25 points)
13 Jan Serfontein (16 caps, 5 points)
12 Jean de Villiers (captain, 102 caps, 135 points)
11 Bryan Habana (103 caps, 280 points)
10 Handré Pollard 6 caps, 56 points)
9 Francois Hougaard 32 caps, 25 points)
8 Duane Vermeulen 25 caps, 10 points)
7 Teboho “Oupa” Mohoje (3 caps, 0 points)
6 Marcell Coetzee (22 caps, 25 points)
5 Victor Matfield (vice-captain, 117 caps, 35 points)
4 Eben Etzebeth (29 caps, 0 points)
3 Jannie du Plessis (60 caps, 5 points)
2 Bismarck du Plessis (66 caps, 45 points)
1 Tendai Mtawarira (61 caps, 10 points)
Replacements:
16 Adriaan Strauss ( 40 caps, 25 points)
17 Trevor Nyakane (9 caps, 5 points)
18 Coenie Oosthuizen (17 caps, 10 points)
19 Bakkies Botha (83 caps, 35 points)
20 Schalk Burger (73 caps, 65 points)
21 Cobus Reinach (2 caps, 0 points)
22 Pat Lambie (36 caps, 81 points)
23 JP Pietersen (56 caps, 85 points)

Imagine having Adrian Strauss, Bakkies Botha and Schalk Burger to come off the bench.

the-goon wrote:When is the team due to be announced?

There quite a few question mark on several positions:

1. Is playing Tighthead? Ross? Archer? Ah You?

2. Is Jonny 100%? Who is his back up?

3. Centres?

4. Fullback? Is Kearney going to be risked?

5. Most of the bench isn't certain either.

Normally you know what you are getting with Ireland selections, but this one will be one of the hardest to call in years.

Meh..
1. Ross. Will be flogged for as long as he can last. Bench (Archer)
2. Is anyone ever 100%. Mads on the bench.
3. Darcy and Henshaw
4. Kearney will start
5. My predicted starting team and alternatives depending on injuries.

1. McGrath
2. Best (Cronin)
3. Ross (Archer)
4. Toner
5. POC
6. POM
7. Henry (Based on last season. Haven’t seen any coverage of him this season. New Guy looked good at the weekend, Sean Deavy?)
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Zebo
12. Darcy (Madigan/Olding – Madigan. Just, on experience but I prefer Olding as an out and out centre)
13. Henshaw
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
16. Cronin/Strauss 17. Kilcoyne 18. Archer/Ah You 19. Foley 20. TOD 21. Marmion 22. Madigan/Keatley 23. Payne

Indo reporting today that Henshaw and Payne are the starting centres

brennomac wrote:Indo reporting today that Henshaw and Payne are the starting centres

See page 3 of this thread

brennomac wrote:Indo reporting today that Henshaw and Payne are the starting centres

I bumped into Darcy this morning walking his dog. He did look a little down cast to be honest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29878063

Best is out. And the team will be named tomorrow.

That front row will be in trouble...

the-goon wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29878063

Best is out. And the team will be named tomorrow.

That front row will be in trouble...

Thats a real pity. Cronin to replace? He is decent back up but Best is easily one of our best players.

GunsGerms wrote:

the-goon wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29878063

Best is out. And the team will be named tomorrow.

That front row will be in trouble...

Thats a real pity. Cronin to replace? He is decent back up but Best is easily one of our best players.

Don't think there is a huge fall off in the set piece but Best does great work on the ground. Cronin does bring a lot of good work with ball in hand but he may well opt to start Strauss 9better darts) with Cronin off the bench in the second half. He does have a lot of impact in the second half when oppositon defences start to tire.

Murray Kinsella doing his usual top class analysis,this time on the S.A. attack

http://www.thescore.ie/south-africa-analysis-attack-1763298-Nov2014/

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Murray Kinsella doing his usual top class analysis,this time on the S.A. attack

http://www.thescore.ie/south-africa-analysis-attack-1763298-Nov2014/

Ineresting. FA if you are around watch the video clips, there is one with Serfontein breaking, check his pace. He doesn't look slow

Biltong wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Murray Kinsella doing his usual top class analysis,this time on the S.A. attack

http://www.thescore.ie/south-africa-analysis-attack-1763298-Nov2014/

Ineresting. FA if you are around watch the video clips, there is one with Serfontein breaking, check his pace. He doesn't look slow

It that one the one where he is marked by Scott Fardy??? Not exactly a fair one on one wouldn't you say.

In the end he's not slow... but he is for an OC. Those who do play in the position without genuine gas need to have excellent game readership and everyone gets caught now and again.. but only those with gas can make it up.

fa0019 wrote:

Biltong wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Murray Kinsella doing his usual top class analysis,this time on the S.A. attack

http://www.thescore.ie/south-africa-analysis-attack-1763298-Nov2014/

Ineresting. FA if you are around watch the video clips, there is one with Serfontein breaking, check his pace. He doesn't look slow

It that one the one where he is marked by Scott Fardy??? Not exactly a fair one on one wouldn't you say.

In the end he's not slow... but he is for an OC. Those who do play in the position without genuine gas need to have excellent game readership and everyone gets caught now and again.. but only those with gas can make it up.

Unfortunately we don't have OC that can run the 100m in 10 seconds, 11 will have to do for now.

Best is a huge loss, not for his darts which have not been great thus far but for the work in the scrum and at the breakdown the latter of which we need players like him. He'll almost guarantee you a clutch of turnovers (yes clutch is my very own term for a group of turnovers) where he's an immoveable object.
Cronin isn't a bad option as backup though, he sometimes looks like a rotund winger when he gets going, amazing pace for a large lump.

What channel is broadcasting the action by the way? Sky is it?

Biltong wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Biltong wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Murray Kinsella doing his usual top class analysis,this time on the S.A. attack

http://www.thescore.ie/south-africa-analysis-attack-1763298-Nov2014/

Ineresting. FA if you are around watch the video clips, there is one with Serfontein breaking, check his pace. He doesn't look slow

It that one the one where he is marked by Scott Fardy??? Not exactly a fair one on one wouldn't you say.

In the end he's not slow... but he is for an OC. Those who do play in the position without genuine gas need to have excellent game readership and everyone gets caught now and again.. but only those with gas can make it up.

Unfortunately we don't have OC that can run the 100m in 10 seconds, 11 will have to do for now.

Crazy how De Jongh (genuine pace) and Engelbrecht (genuine pace) were left at home. Both real 13's.

Yeah, the non selection of JJ is beyond me. Sadly for du Jongh he reminded me again this weekend that he is a good Super XV player, but can't step up.

Where there will be without Best, is a big drop-off in the scrum. Combination between 2 and 3 is pretty essential there and there are already concerns about our tight head. So I really was hoping he was alright.

Interested to see if the rumours re. Payne and Henshaw together in the centres are true.

If we can somehow pull a win out of the hat here, it would be a massive result. Up there with our best in the November series.

Biltong wrote:Yeah, the non selection of JJ is beyond me. Sadly for du Jongh he reminded me again this weekend that he is a good Super XV player, but can't step up.

JJ cant defend and next to Jean " i jump out of the line entirely too often" De Villiers thats a big problem

Bullsbok wrote:

Biltong wrote:Yeah, the non selection of JJ is beyond me. Sadly for du Jongh he reminded me again this weekend that he is a good Super XV player, but can't step up.

JJ cant defend and next to Jean " i jump out of the line entirely too often" De  Villiers thats a big problem

Then drop Jean and put Jan at 12 where he belongs

Biltong wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

Biltong wrote:Yeah, the non selection of JJ is beyond me. Sadly for du Jongh he reminded me again this weekend that he is a good Super XV player, but can't step up.

JJ cant defend and next to Jean " i jump out of the line entirely too often" De  Villiers thats a big problem

Then drop Jean and put Jan at 12 where he belongs

As someone mentioned previously Meyer is not going to drop his springbok captain and 100 test veteran in a backline filled with rookies and Habana . I dont blame him either

So Meyer thinks Hendre Pollard can be a future captain of the Springboks- thats interesting.

Predicted Irish Team;

1. Jack McGrath
2. Sean Cronin
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O'Connell (c)
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Chris Henry
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Johnny Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Jared Payne
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

Notch wrote:Predicted Irish Team;

1. Jack McGrath
2. Sean Cronin
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O'Connell (c)
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Chris Henry
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Johnny Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Jared Payne
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

with rumours that F jones will be on the bench that is some amount of full backs in the team!!!

Just read Gerry Thornleys bit in the IT he seems to think the centre pairing is nailed on as well. Hard to believe the Indo scooped him yesterday. Maybe he doesn't have any sources in camp anymore.

He was asked on off the ball last night by Toland how he always knows what the team will be. He just gave a smug little laugh and ignored the question.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Notch wrote:Predicted Irish Team;

1. Jack McGrath
2. Sean Cronin
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O'Connell (c)
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Chris Henry
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Johnny Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Jared Payne
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

with rumours that F jones will be on the bench that is some amount of full backs in the team!!!

F Jones on the bench is an odd one if true.

The bench must be
Strauss
Kilcoyne
Archer/Ah You
McCarthy/Foley
TOD/Ryan
Madigan
Reddan
Jones

Apparently Rob Kearney has had some problems with his back. They'll not want to move Henshaw back if they can avoid it.

Submachine wrote:Just read Gerry Thornleys bit in the IT he seems to think the centre pairing is nailed on as well. Hard to believe the Indo scooped him yesterday. Maybe he doesn't have any sources in camp anymore.

Paddy Wallace must have been his in-house man.... or............................. ..or Ferris. OR _____ *cough, splutter!!!* _____The Great God BOD himself??!!!!!!!!!!!! The traitor!

Think he owned a half share in a dog with Deckie.

Yeah, I suppose you could train a dog to p-iss on your leg a certain way and divulge the team that way.  Clever!

The shaggy haired one has spoken...no point in waiting around for the team announcement.

Anyhow I like the look of the backline...some might even suggest that Jones would be a better option than Kearney if you look at such strange things like form. Backup front row will be interesting...not convinced on McGrath yet (i.e last scrum in Paris last year)...

ME-109 wrote:The shaggy haired one has spoken...no point in waiting around for the team announcement.

Anyhow I like the look of the backline...some might even suggest that Jones would be a better option than Kearney if you look at such strange things like form. Backup front row will be interesting...not convinced on McGrath yet (i.e last scrum in Paris last year)...

Agreed.

SecretFly wrote:

Submachine wrote:Just read Gerry Thornleys bit in the IT he seems to think the centre pairing is nailed on as well. Hard to believe the Indo scooped him yesterday. Maybe he doesn't have any sources in camp anymore.

Paddy Wallace must have been his in-house man.... or............................. ..or Ferris.   OR _____ *cough, splutter!!!* _____The Great God BOD himself??!!!!!!!!!!!!  The traitor!

Yep, BOD was very quick to ditch Kimmage as his biographer to give Thornley the big interview.

Notch wrote:Predicted Irish Team;

1. Jack McGrath
2. Sean Cronin
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O'Connell (c)
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Chris Henry
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Johnny Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Jared Payne
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

I feel sorry for POC with that pack (particularly tight 4 around him) bearing in mind what the Munster pack did to them a few weeks ago.

edit: maybe he is using this as a warm-up game and targetting the Australian one for the big win.

ME-109 wrote:The shaggy haired one has spoken...no point in waiting around for the team announcement.

Anyhow I like the look of the backline...some might even suggest that Jones would be a better option than Kearney if you look at such strange things like form. Backup front row will be interesting...not convinced on McGrath yet (i.e last scrum in Paris last year)...

I'm curious about that one too. 'Why Jones?????', seems to be a big lingering question. And yes, a strange word like 'form' might play a role in the answer. Well spotted ME.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:Predicted Irish Team;

1. Jack McGrath
2. Sean Cronin
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O'Connell (c)
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Chris Henry
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Johnny Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Jared Payne
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

I feel sorry for POC with that pack (particularly tight 4 around him) bearing in mind what the Munster pack did to them a few weeks ago.

edit: maybe he is using this as a warm-up game and targetting the Australian one for the big win.

Surely his mere presence will put the fear of God into those softies and elevate them to greater heights. That will definitely be it if we win. Probably be something different if we lose.

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:The shaggy haired one has spoken...no point in waiting around for the team announcement.

Anyhow I like the look of the backline...some might even suggest that Jones would be a better option than Kearney if you look at such strange things like form. Backup front row will be interesting...not convinced on McGrath yet (i.e last scrum in Paris last year)...

I'm curious about that one too.  'Why Jones?????', seems to be a big lingering question.  And yes, a strange word like 'form' might play a role in the answer.  Well spotted ME.

When he got called into the squad last year it was strange cos his form was awful. Has been excellent this year for us. Hasnt put a foot wrong and great going forward...himself and Zebo are really beginning to click. Captaincy while POM was out seems to suit him as well.

The cannon fodder !

Ireland team to face South Africa:
15. Rob Kearney
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Jared Payne
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Simon Zebo
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray
1. Jack McGrath
2. Sean Cronin
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O’Connell (capt.)
6. Peter O’Mahony
7. Chris Henry
8. Jamie Heaslip

Replacements:

16. Richardt Strauss
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. Rodney Ah You
19. Mike McCarthy
20. Rhys Ruddock
21. Eoin Reddan
22. Ian Madigan
23. Felix Jones


edit: POC must have taken to his bed at the thoughts of facing the BOKSs with this team - POM went with Schmidt to the team announcement.

28-10 to us... (penalty count that is)

Right so. The Centre pairing is confirmed. Loking forward to seeing how they go. No other real surprises although Mike McCarthy is probably a very marginal call on experience over Foley for the bench.
Ruddock geting the nod for backrow cover is not a total shocker either and gives a carrying option off the bench. If SOB was fit TOD would probably have been the bench option.
Roll on Saturday.

Strong team and as expected. Ireland by 5. Heres how we are going to do it:

Territory is key because the Boks will have a massive weapon in their scrum and will be able to pick off penalties with it especially with Poite as the ref so pin them back in their half.

Therefore, we are going to kick a lot to touch and try to test the Boks lineout. Yes easier said than done but POC and Toner are well equipped to do this.

In attack there will try to expose defensive weaknesses around the fringes and on the Bok blindside a lot. There wont be many elaborate wide attacks from Ireland except for a few pre planned moves. The game plan will be similar to the game plan v Wales in the six nations.

Sexton will need to be on fire with his kicks both for goal and to touch. He will be and we will win by 5.

Sin é wrote:The cannon fodder !

Ireland team to face South Africa:
15. Rob Kearney
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Jared Payne
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Simon Zebo
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray
1. Jack McGrath
2. Sean Cronin
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O’Connell (capt.)
6. Peter O’Mahony
7. Chris Henry
8. Jamie Heaslip

Replacements:

16. Richardt Strauss
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. Rodney Ah You
19. Mike McCarthy
20. Rhys Ruddock
21. Eoin Reddan
22. Ian Madigan
23. Felix Jones


edit: POC must have taken to his bed at the thoughts of facing the BOKSs with this team - POM went with Schmidt to the team announcement.

Thats the second time you've questioned POC's attitude towards his team mates. I always thought he was very professional in everything he does but you probably know better.

Very interesting to see how the centres go. Surprised Olding wasn't selected at 12. What is the weather forcasting? The less scrums the better I feel.

It will be interesting to see Ricardt Strauss vs his cousin Adrian in the second half again. Ricardt will be worth bringing on as he is bound to attract a couple of penalties in our favour.

I would be shocked if there isnt some nasty stuff in this game at some point. Probably from Ezebeth or DuPlessis.

Schalk Burger in two or three attempts has never won v Ireland. Id say he will be chomping at the bit to come on.

Not a bad irish team, it is going to be interesting.