Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November

First topic message reminder :

In six days time Ireland will host South Africa in their first test of the November tours. South Africa will have to lift themselves for this one as the standard under Meyer has ben exemplary in Europe, he is yet to lose a test match and the Six Nations champions gets first shot at breaking Meyer's unbeaten streak over the Six Nations teams.

It seems both teams are effected by injuries so their depth will be severely tested.

South African players unavailable due to injury.

Props - Marcel v d Merwe, Frans Malherbe
Hooker - Schalk Brits, Callie Visagie
Locks - Pieter Steph du Toit, Flip v d Merwe
Back Row - Frans Louw, Willem Alberts, Siya Kolisi, Arno Botha
Halfback - Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar (Pending a fitness test)
Midfield - Jaque Fourie

Irish players unavailable due to injury.
Props - Healy, Moore, Ross (Questionable)
Hooker - Cronin, Best (questionable)
Locks - Tuohy, Ryan
Back Row - Henderson, Murphy, O'Brien
Halfback -
Flyhalf - Sexton (Questionable)
Midfield - Darcy (questionable)
Back Three - Kearney, Earls, Trimble, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Bowe (questionable)

Ireland has been rather successful against South Africa in the last decade, managing wins in 2004, 2006 and 2009.

South Africa 31 - 17 Ireland
South Africa 26 - 17 Ireland
Ireland 17 - 12 South Africa
Ireland 32 - 15 South Africa
Ireland 15 - 10 South Africa
Ireland 21 - 23 South Africa
Ireland 12 - 16 South Africa

Likely matchday 23 for South Africa.

1. Tendai Mtwarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Jannie du PLessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Victor Matfield
6. Marcell Coetzee
7. Oupa Mohoje
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Handre Pollard
11. Brya Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jan Serfontein
14. Cornal Hendricks
15. Willie le Roux.

Subs
16. Coenie Oosthuizen
17. Adriaan Strauss
18. Julian Redelinghuys
19. Bakkies Botha
20. Schalk Burger
21. Cobus Reinach
22. Johan Goosen
23. Patrick Lambie/Damien de Allende

Likely Irish matchday 23. (Help please)

Ireland will be keen to beat the Springboks, even though they are unlikely to meet them in earlier rounds of the RWC it will give them validation and confidence for the Rugby World Cup. Under their new coach I expect them to throw the ball around and attempt to run the SPringboks off their feet, Ireland is also more used to the conditions and could use that to their advantage, I suspect the territorial game will be part of their plans.

It is easier sad than done though, the only team in recent years that managed to run the Springboks off their feet was New Zealand, and that was at altitude. South Africa these days play more adventurous rugby and at a great pace as well, newcomer Handre POllard will be on his first trip to Europe, so it might take him a while to adapt, but once on song he will be the danger man, South Africa attacks a lot flatter without Morne Steyn which does provide more hesitation in opposition defences and creates more space for their outside backs.

One issue with South Africa this season has been their inconsistency in performances, and they will have to be on song from the start.

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has warned his team they will need to be at their best if they are to keep their unbeaten record under his management in the northern hemisphere intact.

Meyer singled out the team’s first fixture against Ireland as a crucial one to kick off the team’s four week tour, and one which is the most tricky of all their fixtures.

The Boks know they cannot focus on the Twickenham showdown before getting past the tricky Irish, who have been a team that has plagued them at this time of year under previous coaches.

The Boks will know all too well how a poor opening performance can set the trend for the tour, and with chances to experiment getting less and less ahead of the World Cup, it is imperative that the team kick off the tour on a high note.

“We have a proud record and we haven’t lost a game there. But we have a proud record and this is probably the toughest tour we have faced to the Northern Hemisphere. I truly believe Ireland is an unbelievable team, they were unlucky not to beat the All Blacks last year.

“They’ve got a great coaching staff, a lot of in-form players and their defence is great. They’ve got a good kicking game in those conditions."

That's it boys, enjoy the discussion.

All I hope is that it's a second half steal (if a win at all) rather than a first half points accumulator and a panicked defensive game for the last 15 minutes as the SAs grind us down bit by bit.

So, if Ireland are 15 -3 ahead at the break we're doomed

GunsGerms wrote:
Therefore, we are going to kick a lot to touch and try to test the Boks lineout. Yes easier said than done but POC and Toner are well equipped to do this.

That plan is doomed to failure with Toner & McCarthy. The best defensive lineout would have been POC & Foley (who stole 7 throws in their two most recent HCup games).

Toner isn't athletic enough to steal lineout ball and McCarthy is too short to be an international lock, has very poor form and is only there as an additional backrower.

If anyone is going to steal lineout ball it will be POM and POC. Just plank Toner in the front of the BOK lineout....jebus Etzebeth will ate him for dessert.

GunsGerms wrote:It will be interesting to see Ricardt Strauss vs his cousin Adrian in the second half again. Ricardt will be worth bringing on as he is bound to attract a couple of penalties in our favour.

I would be shocked if there isnt some nasty stuff in this game at some point. Probably from Ezebeth or DuPlessis.

Schalk Burger in two or three attempts has never won v Ireland. Id say he will be chomping at the bit to come on.

Burger has actually won against Ireland, he just haven't beaten Ireland in Ireland, that is due to him not being available the last two matches in Ireland.

As for the nasty stuff, our game has cleaned up significantly, in the past RC we received one yellow card and that was Habana.

Wonder what Marmion has to do to get on the team....also McCarthy over Foley is a little strange given Mc hasnt looked like a rugby player (not to mind an international lock) for some time.

erm... maybe Marmion should move to Leinster maybe?

ME-109 wrote:Wonder what Marmion has to do to get on the team....also McCarthy over Foley is a little strange given Mc hasnt looked like a rugby player (not to mind an international lock) for some time.

erm... maybe Marmion should move to Leinster maybe?

Why Leinster? The incumbant plays for Munster. You think he deserves to be on the team? What has Murray done in your opinion to merit being dropped?

Submachine wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Wonder what Marmion has to do to get on the team....also McCarthy over Foley is a little strange given Mc hasnt looked like a rugby player (not to mind an international lock) for some time.

erm... maybe Marmion should move to Leinster maybe?

Why Leinster? The incumbant plays for Munster. You think he deserves to be on the team? What has Murray done in your opinion to merit being dropped?

thats so funny Sub...you are a card....I nearly.........laughed

ME-109 wrote:

Submachine wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Wonder what Marmion has to do to get on the team....also McCarthy over Foley is a little strange given Mc hasnt looked like a rugby player (not to mind an international lock) for some time.

erm... maybe Marmion should move to Leinster maybe?

Why Leinster? The incumbant plays for Munster. You think he deserves to be on the team? What has Murray done in your opinion to merit being dropped?

thats so funny Sub...you are a card....I nearly.........laughed

I did laugh at your faux pas. Team = 1-15. You meant squad. You meant Reddan is sh1te. You meant Joe is biased. Blahdeblahdeblah.

Submachine wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Submachine wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Wonder what Marmion has to do to get on the team....also McCarthy over Foley is a little strange given Mc hasnt looked like a rugby player (not to mind an international lock) for some time.

erm... maybe Marmion should move to Leinster maybe?

Why Leinster? The incumbant plays for Munster. You think he deserves to be on the team? What has Murray done in your opinion to merit being dropped?

thats so funny Sub...you are a card....I nearly.........laughed

I did laugh at your faux pas. Team = 1-15. You meant squad. You meant Reddan is sh1te. You meant Joe is biased. Blahdeblahdeblah.

Man you have too much time on your hands...

ME-109 wrote:Wonder what Marmion has to do to get on the team....also McCarthy over Foley is a little strange given Mc hasnt looked like a rugby player (not to mind an international lock) for some time.

erm... maybe Marmion should move to Leinster maybe?

Marmion is too much of a one man band for Joe. He takes way too much stuff on himself. Sexto would have a total hissy fit if he had to play with him.

Joe said a couple of weeks ago that Dave Foley is a good kid that needs to fill out.

Marmion won't be going to Leinster - Johnny wouldn't have him.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:Predicted Irish Team;

1. Jack McGrath
2. Sean Cronin
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O'Connell (c)
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Chris Henry
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Johnny Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Jared Payne
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

I feel sorry for POC with that pack (particularly tight 4 around him) bearing in mind what the Munster pack did to them a few weeks ago.

edit: maybe he is using this as a warm-up game and targetting the Australian one for the big win.

Yeah I don't think we have it in the tight five either. I am interested in our scrummaging and our centres defensive positioning above all.

I don't think there is any hint of him using it as a warm up game- I think if it was the knockout stages of the World Cup D'Arcy would be starting but thats about it with the injuries there are. You would have loved Tuohy or Henderson adding some heft off the bench and the abrasiveness of Healy and Best, not to mention Ross having a few more games, but it is what it is.

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:It will be interesting to see Ricardt Strauss vs his cousin Adrian in the second half again. Ricardt will be worth bringing on as he is bound to attract a couple of penalties in our favour.

I would be shocked if there isnt some nasty stuff in this game at some point. Probably from Ezebeth or DuPlessis.

Schalk Burger in two or three attempts has never won v Ireland. Id say he will be chomping at the bit to come on.

Burger has actually won against Ireland, he just haven't beaten Ireland in Ireland, that is due to him not being available the last two matches in Ireland.

As for the nasty stuff, our game has cleaned up significantly, in the past RC we received one yellow card and that was Habana.

Remember it was Poite who gave Bismark the yellow two years ago v NZ!!!

Although I'm not surprised, I do not see how Payne has merited selection at 13, I really don't. If they were going to select Henshaw anyway, it would have made sense to pair him with D'Arcy for some experience. Moving him to 12 (has he ever played there?) to accommodate Payne just doesn't make sense to me.

Not too impressed.

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:It will be interesting to see Ricardt Strauss vs his cousin Adrian in the second half again. Ricardt will be worth bringing on as he is bound to attract a couple of penalties in our favour.

I would be shocked if there isnt some nasty stuff in this game at some point. Probably from Ezebeth or DuPlessis.

Schalk Burger in two or three attempts has never won v Ireland. Id say he will be chomping at the bit to come on.

Burger has actually won against Ireland, he just haven't beaten Ireland in Ireland, that is due to him not being available the last two matches in Ireland.

As for the nasty stuff, our game has cleaned up significantly, in the past RC we received one yellow card and that was Habana.

They were giving R Strauss a tough time the last time. CJ Stander commented on last week about the 'going over' he will likely get if he ever lines out against SA.

Sin é wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Wonder what Marmion has to do to get on the team....also McCarthy over Foley is a little strange given Mc hasnt looked like a rugby player (not to mind an international lock) for some time.

erm... maybe Marmion should move to Leinster maybe?

Marmion is too much of a one man band for Joe. He takes way too much stuff on himself. Sexto would have a total hissy fit if he had to play with him.

Joe said a couple of weeks ago that Dave Foley is a good kid that needs to fill out.

Marmion won't be going to Leinster - Johnny wouldn't have him.

Its interesting to note that Toner and Etzebeth are basically the same height and weight....thats about where the comparison ends..

Darcy is 35 in January. Makes sense to try something new out. If Henshaw and Payne click we are on to a winner.

GunsGerms wrote:

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:It will be interesting to see Ricardt Strauss vs his cousin Adrian in the second half again. Ricardt will be worth bringing on as he is bound to attract a couple of penalties in our favour.

I would be shocked if there isnt some nasty stuff in this game at some point. Probably from Ezebeth or DuPlessis.

Schalk Burger in two or three attempts has never won v Ireland. Id say he will be chomping at the bit to come on.

Burger has actually won against Ireland, he just haven't beaten Ireland in Ireland, that is due to him not being available the last two matches in Ireland.

As for the nasty stuff, our game has cleaned up significantly, in the past RC we received one yellow card and that was Habana.

Remember it was Poite who gave Bismark the yellow two years ago v NZ!!!

Correct, although I am sure I need not tell you what I think of the ..$&)@

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Although I'm not surprised, I do not see how Payne has merited selection at 13, I really don't. If they were going to select Henshaw anyway, it would have made sense to pair him with D'Arcy for some experience. Moving him to 12 (has he ever played there?) to accommodate Payne just doesn't make sense to me.

Not too impressed.

This is purely a guess but if D'Arcy hasn't trained fully and is in any way doubtful he might just think it's better to save him for the Oz match and at least be certain we'll have our strongest available team for that match.Best and D'Arcy back would add a lot to the team.

Very odd Ireland selection. With a team of fullbacks the Boks can expect an aerial bombardment. Are they good under the high ball?

Sin é wrote:

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:It will be interesting to see Ricardt Strauss vs his cousin Adrian in the second half again. Ricardt will be worth bringing on as he is bound to attract a couple of penalties in our favour.

I would be shocked if there isnt some nasty stuff in this game at some point. Probably from Ezebeth or DuPlessis.

Schalk Burger in two or three attempts has never won v Ireland. Id say he will be chomping at the bit to come on.

Burger has actually won against Ireland, he just haven't beaten Ireland in Ireland, that is due to him not being available the last two matches in Ireland.

As for the nasty stuff, our game has cleaned up significantly, in the past RC we received one yellow card and that was Habana.

They were giving R Strauss a tough time the last time. CJ Stander commented on last week about the 'going over' he will likely get if he ever lines out against SA.

I suppose it is inevitable that on your first few outings against your birth land that you will be roughed up a bit, but I suspect once you have earned their respect it goes away

Besides some of the old (un)reliables Joe has picked I think that in the backline especially he wants to take a good look at some new combinations. More power to him at least it isnt the same old same old. Also Darcy is probably not 100% so then erm...maybe its Joe just having his hand forced....so erm scratch that about Joe making an exciting team selection....

Biltong wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:It will be interesting to see Ricardt Strauss vs his cousin Adrian in the second half again. Ricardt will be worth bringing on as he is bound to attract a couple of penalties in our favour.

I would be shocked if there isnt some nasty stuff in this game at some point. Probably from Ezebeth or DuPlessis.

Schalk Burger in two or three attempts has never won v Ireland. Id say he will be chomping at the bit to come on.

Burger has actually won against Ireland, he just haven't beaten Ireland in Ireland, that is due to him not being available the last two matches in Ireland.

As for the nasty stuff, our game has cleaned up significantly, in the past RC we received one yellow card and that was Habana.

They were giving R Strauss a tough time the last time. CJ Stander commented on last week about the 'going over' he will likely get if he ever lines out against SA.

I suppose it is inevitable that on your first few outings against your birth land that you will be roughed up a bit, but I suspect once you have earned their respect it goes away

First time Kyran Bracken played against Ireland he got the sh.t kicked out of him...bound to happen

profitius wrote:Very odd Ireland selection. With a team of fullbacks the Boks can expect an aerial bombardment. Are they good under the high ball?

Not Cornal Hendricks, he is very poor under the highball and it will be a blessing in disguise if he is exposed now rather than next year.

I couldn't believe NZ or Australia didn't exploit it in the RC

ME-109 wrote:Besides some of the old (un)reliables Joe has picked I think that in the backline especially he wants to take a good look at some new combinations. More power to him at least it isnt the same old same old. Also Darcy is probably not 100% so then erm...maybe its Joe just having his hand forced....so erm scratch that about Joe making an exciting team selection....

What would have been your team and who should he not have picked. Lets lay it all out before the game.

Notch wrote:
Yeah I don't think we have it in the tight five either. I am interested in our scrummaging and our centres defensive positioning above all.

I don't think there is any hint of him using it as a warm up game- I think if it was the knockout stages of the World Cup D'Arcy would be starting but thats about it with the injuries there are. You would have loved Tuohy or Henderson adding some heft off the bench and the abrasiveness of Healy and Best, not to mention Ross having a few more games, but it is what it is.

Most of SA's tries come off their lineout (they gave the percentage the other night on Against the Head). I'd be putting out the best defensive lineout I could if I was in Joe Schmidt's shoes.

Biltong wrote:

profitius wrote:Very odd Ireland selection. With a team of fullbacks the Boks can expect an aerial bombardment. Are they good under the high ball?

Not Cornal Hendricks, he is very poor under the highball and it will be a blessing in disguise if he is exposed now rather than next year.

I couldn't believe NZ or Australia didn't exploit it in the RC

The tactic is beneath them Like the ABs refusing drop goal attempts.... not up to their standards of play.

Sine, we haven't scored many tries off our line out this year, our maul has been neutralised comprehensively this year.

GunsGerms wrote:Darcy is 35 in January. Makes sense to try something new out. If Henshaw and Payne click we are on to a winner.

You could say that about any of the centre options though and this one makes the least sense. Moving a player out of position and moving in a player out of his best position who isn't in his best form seems strange. Sure if it clicks we are on to a winner, but there is little to suggest that it will. Especially when we have PLENTY of great options at 12, instead of moving a 13 there.

ME-109 wrote:

Submachine wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Submachine wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Wonder what Marmion has to do to get on the team....also McCarthy over Foley is a little strange given Mc hasnt looked like a rugby player (not to mind an international lock) for some time.

erm... maybe Marmion should move to Leinster maybe?

Why Leinster? The incumbant plays for Munster. You think he deserves to be on the team? What has Murray done in your opinion to merit being dropped?

thats so funny Sub...you are a card....I nearly.........laughed

I did laugh at your faux pas. Team = 1-15. You meant squad. You meant Reddan is sh1te. You meant Joe is biased. Blahdeblahdeblah.

Man you have too much time on your hands...

And a green jersey in the wardrobe. You should try one on.

Biltong wrote:Sine, we haven't scored many tries off our line out this year, our maul has been neutralised comprehensively this year.

Well, they said that the other night on 'Against the Head' (with a panel of Donal Lenihan, Alan Quinlan and Stephen Ferris). They gave the percentages as well. I don't think Matfield has been playing in all games, has he?

Sin é wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Wonder what Marmion has to do to get on the team....also McCarthy over Foley is a little strange given Mc hasnt looked like a rugby player (not to mind an international lock) for some time.

erm... maybe Marmion should move to Leinster maybe?

Marmion is too much of a one man band for Joe. He takes way too much stuff on himself. Sexto would have a total hissy fit if he had to play with him.

Joe said a couple of weeks ago that Dave Foley is a good kid that needs to fill out.

Marmion won't be going to Leinster - Johnny wouldn't have him.

a stupid comment by a stupidly biased poster

Yes Marfield has, to give you an example, in our last two test (Australia 4) and (New Zealand 3) tries, only one has been from the line out maul, the rest were all from phase play and counter attacks.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Darcy is 35 in January. Makes sense to try something new out. If Henshaw and Payne click we are on to a winner.

You could say that about any of the centre options though and this one makes the least sense. Moving a player out of position and moving in a player out of his best position who isn't in his best form seems strange.  Sure if it clicks we are on to a winner, but there is little to suggest that it will.  Especially when we have PLENTY of great options at 12, instead of moving a 13 there.

Dont you think that Henshaw and payne are probably two of the more gifted players we have though regardless of form.

GunsGerms wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Darcy is 35 in January. Makes sense to try something new out. If Henshaw and Payne click we are on to a winner.

You could say that about any of the centre options though and this one makes the least sense. Moving a player out of position and moving in a player out of his best position who isn't in his best form seems strange.  Sure if it clicks we are on to a winner, but there is little to suggest that it will.  Especially when we have PLENTY of great options at 12, instead of moving a 13 there.

Dont you think that Henshaw and payne are probably two of the more gifted players we have though regardless of form.

More gifted at 12 than Madigan or Olding?

Yes, but in other positions than the ones they have been selected in. If you wanted a very gifted player at 12, look at Stuart Olding.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

a stupid comment by a stupidly biased poster

Sin loves a good conspiracy. It is a Munster thing.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Darcy is 35 in January. Makes sense to try something new out. If Henshaw and Payne click we are on to a winner.

You could say that about any of the centre options though and this one makes the least sense. Moving a player out of position and moving in a player out of his best position who isn't in his best form seems strange.  Sure if it clicks we are on to a winner, but there is little to suggest that it will.  Especially when we have PLENTY of great options at 12, instead of moving a 13 there.

Looking ahead to Rugby World Cu, I think the 12 spot is earmarked for Luke Fitzgerald. I think all the young Ulster centres won't feature until after the rugby world cup.

I think Henshaw & Payne will be competing for 13 (horses for courses selection) and utility player.

Submachine wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Darcy is 35 in January. Makes sense to try something new out. If Henshaw and Payne click we are on to a winner.

You could say that about any of the centre options though and this one makes the least sense. Moving a player out of position and moving in a player out of his best position who isn't in his best form seems strange.  Sure if it clicks we are on to a winner, but there is little to suggest that it will.  Especially when we have PLENTY of great options at 12, instead of moving a 13 there.

Dont you think that Henshaw and payne are probably two of the more gifted players we have though regardless of form.

More gifted at 12 than Madigan or Olding?

Neither have the physicality to deal with Jean de Villiers/Senfontein.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Wonder what Marmion has to do to get on the team....also McCarthy over Foley is a little strange given Mc hasnt looked like a rugby player (not to mind an international lock) for some time.

erm... maybe Marmion should move to Leinster maybe?

Marmion is too much of a one man band for Joe. He takes way too much stuff on himself. Sexto would have a total hissy fit if he had to play with him.

Joe said a couple of weeks ago that Dave Foley is a good kid that needs to fill out.

Marmion won't be going to Leinster - Johnny wouldn't have him.

a stupid comment by a stupidly biased poster

Its true though. Sexton likes to boss his SH. Marmion has no experience of that so it would be risky (from Marmion's point of view) trying to get them to gel.

Marmion should move to Ulster and build up a partnership with Paddy Jackson and learn a bit from Ruan Pienaar.

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Darcy is 35 in January. Makes sense to try something new out. If Henshaw and Payne click we are on to a winner.

You could say that about any of the centre options though and this one makes the least sense. Moving a player out of position and moving in a player out of his best position who isn't in his best form seems strange.  Sure if it clicks we are on to a winner, but there is little to suggest that it will.  Especially when we have PLENTY of great options at 12, instead of moving a 13 there.

Dont you think that Henshaw and payne are probably two of the more gifted players we have though regardless of form.

More gifted at 12 than Madigan or Olding?

Neither have the physicality to deal with Jean de Villiers/Senfontein.

I would generally agree re Madigan and have expressed concerns for him in this chanel but I've never seen him outmuscled or outplayed by any oposition same with Olding

Olding is a far superior tackler to Payne. Payne may have the size advantage but he is not a good defender by any means.

Sin é wrote:

Looking ahead to Rugby World Cu, I think the 12 spot is earmarked for Luke Fitzgerald. I think all the young Ulster centres won't feature until after the rugby world cup.

I think Henshaw & Payne will be competing for 13 (horses for courses selection) and utility player.

You love making stuff up as you go along. There is no way Luke Fitz will be given the 12 spot.

I reckon Darcy will be our WC 12 for the big games.

JmD wrote:Olding is a far superior tackler to Payne. Payne may have the size advantage but he is not a good defender by any means.

Which is highly unfortunate because I think he might be doing a fair bit of it for as long as he's on...poor chap.

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Darcy is 35 in January. Makes sense to try something new out. If Henshaw and Payne click we are on to a winner.

You could say that about any of the centre options though and this one makes the least sense. Moving a player out of position and moving in a player out of his best position who isn't in his best form seems strange.  Sure if it clicks we are on to a winner, but there is little to suggest that it will.  Especially when we have PLENTY of great options at 12, instead of moving a 13 there.

Dont you think that Henshaw and payne are probably two of the more gifted players we have though regardless of form.

More gifted at 12 than Madigan or Olding?

Neither have the physicality to deal with Jean de Villiers/Senfontein.

I would generally agree re Madigan and have expressed concerns for him in this chanel but I've never seen him outmuscled or outplayed by any oposition same with Olding

Who has the class of Jean de Villiers that either of them would have come up against?

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Looking ahead to Rugby World Cu, I think the 12 spot is earmarked for Luke Fitzgerald. I think all the young Ulster centres won't feature until after the rugby world cup.

I think Henshaw & Payne will be competing for 13 (horses for courses selection) and utility player.

You love making stuff up as you go along. There is no way Luke Fitz will be given the 12 spot.

I reckon Darcy will be our WC 12 for the big games.

D'Arcy may well be if Luke gets broken again.

Says it all really...

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Darcy is 35 in January. Makes sense to try something new out. If Henshaw and Payne click we are on to a winner.

You could say that about any of the centre options though and this one makes the least sense. Moving a player out of position and moving in a player out of his best position who isn't in his best form seems strange.  Sure if it clicks we are on to a winner, but there is little to suggest that it will.  Especially when we have PLENTY of great options at 12, instead of moving a 13 there.

Dont you think that Henshaw and payne are probably two of the more gifted players we have though regardless of form.

More gifted at 12 than Madigan or Olding?

Neither have the physicality to deal with Jean de Villiers/Senfontein.

I would generally agree re Madigan and have expressed concerns for him in this chanel but I've never seen him outmuscled or outplayed by any oposition same with Olding

Who has the class of Jean de Villiers that either of them would have come up against?

Class? He's a bosh merchant and getting on a bit now as well.

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Darcy is 35 in January. Makes sense to try something new out. If Henshaw and Payne click we are on to a winner.

You could say that about any of the centre options though and this one makes the least sense. Moving a player out of position and moving in a player out of his best position who isn't in his best form seems strange.  Sure if it clicks we are on to a winner, but there is little to suggest that it will.  Especially when we have PLENTY of great options at 12, instead of moving a 13 there.

Dont you think that Henshaw and payne are probably two of the more gifted players we have though regardless of form.

More gifted at 12 than Madigan or Olding?

Neither have the physicality to deal with Jean de Villiers/Senfontein.

I would generally agree re Madigan and have expressed concerns for him in this chanel but I've never seen him outmuscled or outplayed by any oposition same with Olding

Who has the class of Jean de Villiers that either of them would have come up against?

Class? He's a bosh merchant and getting on a bit now as well.

Well then, mention these players who you consider Olding and Madigan to have come out on top. How did Olding and Payne get on against Bastareaud & Mermoz recently?

edit: I see from scrum.com that Olding beat 3 defenders but missed 4 of the 7 tackles he attempted/made. He kicked once and passed the ball twice, ran 8 times for 29 metres.

wolfball wrote:Says it all really...

What exactly does that say Wolf?? I think I need to go to specsavers to even see the 'enlarged' one...

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Darcy is 35 in January. Makes sense to try something new out. If Henshaw and Payne click we are on to a winner.

You could say that about any of the centre options though and this one makes the least sense. Moving a player out of position and moving in a player out of his best position who isn't in his best form seems strange.  Sure if it clicks we are on to a winner, but there is little to suggest that it will.  Especially when we have PLENTY of great options at 12, instead of moving a 13 there.

Dont you think that Henshaw and payne are probably two of the more gifted players we have though regardless of form.

More gifted at 12 than Madigan or Olding?

Neither have the physicality to deal with Jean de Villiers/Senfontein.

I would generally agree re Madigan and have expressed concerns for him in this chanel but I've never seen him outmuscled or outplayed by any oposition same with Olding

Who has the class of Jean de Villiers that either of them would have come up against?

Class? He's a bosh merchant and getting on a bit now as well.

Well then, mention these players who you consider Olding and Madigan to have come out on top. How did Olding and Payne get on against Bastareaud & Mermoz recently?

edit: I see from scrum.com that Olding beat 3 defenders but missed 4 of the 7 tackles he attempted/made. He kicked once and passed the ball twice, ran 8 times for 29 metres.

T'is a 15 man game and both of these guys have more experience tactical awareness and defensive nouse in the 12 chanel than Henshaw. Thats it. Henshaw is obviously the bigger specimen and i hope it comes off in spades but I also feel that the two boys have been shoe-horned in to the side at the expenses of two more appropriate options at 12. Not to mention the poor treatment of Darren Cave at Ulster.