Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November

First topic message reminder :

In six days time Ireland will host South Africa in their first test of the November tours. South Africa will have to lift themselves for this one as the standard under Meyer has ben exemplary in Europe, he is yet to lose a test match and the Six Nations champions gets first shot at breaking Meyer's unbeaten streak over the Six Nations teams.

It seems both teams are effected by injuries so their depth will be severely tested.

South African players unavailable due to injury.

Props - Marcel v d Merwe, Frans Malherbe
Hooker - Schalk Brits, Callie Visagie
Locks - Pieter Steph du Toit, Flip v d Merwe
Back Row - Frans Louw, Willem Alberts, Siya Kolisi, Arno Botha
Halfback - Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar (Pending a fitness test)
Midfield - Jaque Fourie

Irish players unavailable due to injury.
Props - Healy, Moore, Ross (Questionable)
Hooker - Cronin, Best (questionable)
Locks - Tuohy, Ryan
Back Row - Henderson, Murphy, O'Brien
Halfback -
Flyhalf - Sexton (Questionable)
Midfield - Darcy (questionable)
Back Three - Kearney, Earls, Trimble, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Bowe (questionable)

Ireland has been rather successful against South Africa in the last decade, managing wins in 2004, 2006 and 2009.

South Africa 31 - 17 Ireland
South Africa 26 - 17 Ireland
Ireland 17 - 12 South Africa
Ireland 32 - 15 South Africa
Ireland 15 - 10 South Africa
Ireland 21 - 23 South Africa
Ireland 12 - 16 South Africa

Likely matchday 23 for South Africa.

1. Tendai Mtwarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Jannie du PLessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Victor Matfield
6. Marcell Coetzee
7. Oupa Mohoje
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Handre Pollard
11. Brya Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jan Serfontein
14. Cornal Hendricks
15. Willie le Roux.

Subs
16. Coenie Oosthuizen
17. Adriaan Strauss
18. Julian Redelinghuys
19. Bakkies Botha
20. Schalk Burger
21. Cobus Reinach
22. Johan Goosen
23. Patrick Lambie/Damien de Allende

Likely Irish matchday 23. (Help please)

Ireland will be keen to beat the Springboks, even though they are unlikely to meet them in earlier rounds of the RWC it will give them validation and confidence for the Rugby World Cup. Under their new coach I expect them to throw the ball around and attempt to run the SPringboks off their feet, Ireland is also more used to the conditions and could use that to their advantage, I suspect the territorial game will be part of their plans.

It is easier sad than done though, the only team in recent years that managed to run the Springboks off their feet was New Zealand, and that was at altitude. South Africa these days play more adventurous rugby and at a great pace as well, newcomer Handre POllard will be on his first trip to Europe, so it might take him a while to adapt, but once on song he will be the danger man, South Africa attacks a lot flatter without Morne Steyn which does provide more hesitation in opposition defences and creates more space for their outside backs.

One issue with South Africa this season has been their inconsistency in performances, and they will have to be on song from the start.

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has warned his team they will need to be at their best if they are to keep their unbeaten record under his management in the northern hemisphere intact.

Meyer singled out the team’s first fixture against Ireland as a crucial one to kick off the team’s four week tour, and one which is the most tricky of all their fixtures.

The Boks know they cannot focus on the Twickenham showdown before getting past the tricky Irish, who have been a team that has plagued them at this time of year under previous coaches.

The Boks will know all too well how a poor opening performance can set the trend for the tour, and with chances to experiment getting less and less ahead of the World Cup, it is imperative that the team kick off the tour on a high note.

“We have a proud record and we haven’t lost a game there. But we have a proud record and this is probably the toughest tour we have faced to the Northern Hemisphere. I truly believe Ireland is an unbelievable team, they were unlucky not to beat the All Blacks last year.

“They’ve got a great coaching staff, a lot of in-form players and their defence is great. They’ve got a good kicking game in those conditions."

That's it boys, enjoy the discussion.

ME-109 wrote:

quinsforever wrote:that was a very bizarre yellow card. am just watching the highlights. crowd bought that one.

Hard to know what Poite is thinking most of the time but he did mention it was the second time from Strauss (second time of what I am not sure)....dont really think Poite is one to be influenced by the crowd...

All refs are influenced by the crowd. Its only natural. Lots of research done into this. Home teams get the better of 50 / 50 decisions all the time.

Lets stop the whinging about Poite before we get the distinct aroma of sour grapes.

That was never a yellow card but Poite had mentioned the previous penalties so obviously it was a team yellow I still think it was harsh and a penalty would have been the correct decision as there was nothing on the contact, just frustration and over eagerness.

Twas a great game of tough, physical rugby that was decided by the players, not the ref which is always refreshing after weeks of Pro12 reffing. The better team won and fingers crossed the Schmidt era will continue on this course.

P.S. I was so worried about our new midfield pairing but it looks very like I had nothing to worry about, despite having little possession they accounted for themselves brilliantly especially Henshaw who will be getting many,many Irish caps. He is the real thing.

Is there anyway I can watch this game now? What station was it on?

A good Boks team played poorly, too many mistakes and failed to adapt. Ireland played well and out smarted the Boks - thoroughly deserved the win inspite of a dodgy card.

Well done to the Irish.
Insert Serfontein knock here.

Bullsbok wrote:Why cant they just clone Nigel Owens and distribute him around the world and make an extra "Argentian version" so he can ref Wales too. Problem Solved

That would be so good! We can only dream...

I agree about the yellow. I think most agree that it was harsh, even amongst our most die-hard Irish fans most think it was a really harsh call. As I said at the time, I would rather we had beat them 15 vs 15.

Notch - help me out ta - what tv station was this on? Can I watch it again? Ta muchly

It was on SKYSports TJ

TJ wrote:Notch - help me out ta - what tv station was this on?  Can I watch it again?  Ta muchly

It was on Sky Sports unfortunately. So the answer is yeah, if you have Sky, and probably no if you don't.

There was quite a stink kicked up about this game not being on free-to-air in Northern Ireland- rightly so. However it was on free to air in the South, it was on RTE. So maybe the best way would be to try and use a proxy server to seem Irish and see if you can re-watch it on RTEs website. They have the RTE Player, which is basically like iPlayer but not as good.

Ta.  doubt I can get a replay without a sky subscription then.  Thanks

Edit - ta notch - I have tried to find it on RTE but not been able to get it to play - presumably 'cos I am in the wrong country. Ta lads.

The SA team Waugh beat out wasn't particularly impressive, tbh. I suppose our pace bowling line up was world class, but the rest of the team was rather poor, tbh. Outside of Kallis, I'd say our batters were verging on pathetic. Our batting line up throughout the 90s was actually a rather dispersed collection of triers.

kingraf wrote:The SA team Waugh beat out wasn't particularly impressive, tbh. I suppose our pace bowling line up was world class, but the rest of the team was rather poor, tbh. Outside of Kallis, I'd say our batters were verging on pathetic. Our batting line up throughout the 90s was actually a rather dispersed collection of triers.

Wrong thread king?

TJ;

Highlights

http://balls.ie/rugby/video-highlights-ireland-vs-south-africa-wont-get-old-anytime-soon/

Ta. I am too much of a dimwit to get the proxy server thing to work.

Oh dammit! Apologies

offload wrote:A good Boks team played poorly, too many mistakes and failed to adapt.  Ireland played well and out smarted the Boks - thoroughly deserved the win inspite of a dodgy card.

There is no doubt that Ireland deserved the win.

They nullified our maul by smart play and the Boks were too dense to adapt.

They nullified our breakdown by throwing everything at it and we failed to adapt.

Hougaard dropped two balls from behind the ruck after he already collected the ball inside Irish 22 whilst we were putting Ireland under pressure.

Bismarck conceded to stupid penalties inside Irish 22 after we have already won the ball and were in good position to attack the line.

Johnny Sexton put a masterclass on with his tactical kicking and his goal kicking.

Pollard showed he still has much to learn about controlling the game.

Poite is an idiot, we lost regardless of his officiating, but he is still an idiot, his first TMO call on Coetzee fending of HEaslip was a joke, the yellow on Strauss was a joke. I hope we never play in a match with him officiating ever again.

Wow! Sometimes a team puts in a performance you think they are incapable of putting in. Remember this same team beat a near full strength NZ team last month.

Can't remember a Bok side who looked so small in comparison to the counterparts. Can't recall the names but one of the props was having a stormer of a game.

I think this Bok side are in danger of a crisis. Lose to england and make no mistake they will be in one hell of a battle and it could become a tour of hell. The last thing you want to do is go to Wales who are desperate for any 3N victory when you just want to go home.

fa0019 wrote:

I think this Bok side are in danger of a crisis. Lose to england and make no mistake they will be in one hell of a battle and it could become a tour of hell. The last thing you want to do is go to Wales who are desperate for any 3N victory when you just want to go home.

If it comes down to that then I'd be surprised if they didn't want to finish with a bang Vs an opponent they're confident of beating. Who do SA face in their next two games?

Yeah, I wasn't expecting this result either.

Ireland had a better plan and they executed it pretty well. This surely must go down as one of their top 3 wins on the international stage - bearing in mind the nearly 15-point margin. Hopefully for Irish fans, this is the start of a rise in confidence and performances leading to more big scalps.

SA seemed to be caught on the counter after the initial settling down period where everything looked fine. They were more vulnerable all of a sudden and Ireland sensed that right away and racked up some well put together points. It's unusual too see a Bok side playing catch up rugby very often... especially against Ireland.

Sets up some interesting encounters. I'd say SA will do their homework and tighten up certain areas which need attention. Maybe a selection shuffle. England are probably favourites but it should be a close scoreline you'd think... (or a blow-out either way)

Ireland v Georgia  - I know Notch is hanging for it... and I can see the appeal (I saw them play in RWC 03... they were crowd favourites) but I can't see past a very large win for Ireland. Time for them to step it up to another level and add some polish. With all due respect, Ireland should not feel intimidated by a side which has just been hammered by Tonga.

I only saw the highlights ( thanks notch) but that certainly looks like a very good win indeed and by no means an unlucky win. Having the best 10 in the NH must be a great help and is POC actually three players with an invisibility sheild?

The Loaded Dog wrote:Ireland v Georgia  - I know Notch is hanging for it... and I can see the appeal (I saw them play in RWC 03... they were crowd favourites) but I can't see past a very large win for Ireland. Time for them to step it up to another level and add some polish. With all due respect, Ireland should not feel intimidated by a side which has just been hammered by Tonga.

Yep, will be expecting us to score some good tries out there!

You know I meant "hanging out for it..."

TJ wrote:Ta.  I am too much of a dimwit to get the proxy server thing to work.

This is really easy to get to work - Hola. Once installed, you just click on the country you want to be appearing from.

https://hola.org/

I think that means the same thing. I certainly didn't think you meant I was hanging by the neck

I am looking forward to the next two games though! And we can't play the Aussies before the Georgians so thats where we have to focus.

Biltong wrote:

Poite is an idiot, we lost regardless of his officiating, but he is still an idiot, his first TMO call on Coetzee fending of HEaslip was a joke, the yellow on Strauss was a joke. I hope we never play in a match with him officiating ever again.

Fair opinions. Now I'm waiting for TJ to come in and claim that South Africans always blame the ref for a loss.... Or just maybe you guys aren't Welsh enough to get the pleasure of receiving that accusation?

The saint - can you actually read? "Poite is an idiot, we lost regardless of his officiating"

ie not blaming the ref for the defeat Nor does he accuse the ref of bias as you do. this is the subtle difference that escapes you

Fantastic win for Ireland. Hat off to Schmidt. Tactically brilliant. Hat also off to young McGrath at loosehead as well. Kearney was magnificent, Sexton & Murray are formidable as a halfback pairing. Great to have a 'big' midfield and it will be great to have a big physical presence like Robbie Henshaw in our midfield. Jared, I though he did well.

Fair play to Jean de Villiers & H Meyer - very classy in defeat.

I think I already explained that Biltong isn't Welsh, TJ... Carry on.

Sin é wrote: Fair play to Jean de Villiers & H Meyer - very classy in defeat.

To be hones with you, I want them to be a little less classy and show some anger, especially from the captain, I want to see them showing the loss hurts. I want to see the anger and disappointment for what was a poor performance. I want to see his frustration, he isn't a politician

Sin é wrote:Fantastic win for Ireland. Hat off to Schmidt. Tactically brilliant. Hat also off to young McGrath at loosehead as well. Kearney was magnificent, Sexton & Murray are formidable as a halfback pairing. Great to have a 'big' midfield and it will be great to have a big physical presence like Robbie Henshaw in our midfield. Jared, I though he did well.

Fair play to Jean de Villiers & H Meyer - very classy in defeat.

Wow sine actually acknowledging Schmidts tactical genius for once.

Great win and great game to be at. Proof once again that we have the players, even with lots missing to beat the best. Hopefully this will change the mindset of Irish fans that are constantly in awe of SH players that somehow we dont belong on the same stage as them. Such tripe drives me mad.

GunsGerms wrote:Hopefully this will change the mindset of Irish fans that are constantly in awe of SH players that somehow we dont belong on the same stage as them. Such tripe drives me mad

That was the greatest setup by Irish media and fans I have seen in a long time, the Boks walked onto the field smiling and chatting to themselves, looking to congratulate themselves before they even sang their anthem.

quinsforever wrote: it would make a bit of a mockery of the rankings if a team can jump both teams ahead of them without having beaten either...thats all i'm saying. but i understand how it can happen mathematically

Sorry for the delay in replying to this one but I had to because you see....that's how England leapfrogged Australia a month or so ago... without playing anyone or kitting out in white at all... whilst probably all players and coaches were tucked in at home fast asleep.

Boks did exactly that the last time we put a score on them too. A lot of people still talk about Jake Whites comments all those years ago. They were convinced all they had to do was show up.

Ireland played well but JDVs over zealous decision making contributed to SAs loss.

Biltong wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Hopefully this will change the mindset of Irish fans that are constantly in awe of SH players that somehow we dont belong on the same stage as them. Such tripe drives me mad

That was the greatest setup by Irish media and fans I have seen in a long time, the Boks walked onto the field smiling and chatting to themselves, looking to congratulate themselves before they even sang their anthem.

I know

At the match I thought the card was a crowd call, but having watched it again on screen, it was entirely justified. Poite had spoken to both captains about niggle and then spoke to JdV about the Vermeulen high tackle indicating that it was close to a yellow. Strauss actively put his right arm out to stop Kearney using the ball he had won so it was a team yellow.

IMO South Africa have in part themselves to blame for the loss. JdV didn't offer much on the pitch but he made some poor captaincy decisions. Aside from managing the discipline mentioned above his decision in the first half was ridiculous not to go for the posts. That was further compounded in going for the lineout rather than the scrum. SA were dominant in the scrum at that time and Ireland had conceded a couple of scrum penalties just previously. If they had gone for that scrum they could possibly have bought an Irish prop yellow from Poite.
Meyer has to take some responsibility for his substitutions as well especially bringing Etzebeth off when he clearly looked better equipped to last the 80 than Matfield. I thought Pieterson should have gone to 13 and Serfontain moved in one rather than simply change wingers when neither had seen that much of the ball.
JdV alluded to it after the game that it was the senior players who need to have a look at themselves - I think it is actually Meyer who has to look at some of his ageing legends who are still in the team as the younger guys comfortably outplayed their seniors.

Biltong wrote:

Sin é wrote: Fair play to Jean de Villiers & H Meyer - very classy in defeat.

To be hones with you, I want them to be a little less classy and show some anger, especially from the captain, I want to see them showing the loss hurts. I want to see the anger and disappointment for what was a poor performance. I want to see his frustration, he isn't a politician

All true in a sense Bilt.  But I guess Irish people are reacting to the distinct parts of the interviews where they didn't make excuses about their loss that would have been seen to downplay the Irish win in any way.  When talking about their own game, yes, perhaps a tad more anger-at-selves might have been more appreciated by their fans.  But I don't know how you do both, in truth, as I think it was the Irish team's performance that took the game away from them, and they admitted it.

The only positive outcome from this game is that the Boks WILL beat England next week and thats very important come world cup time . Prior to yesterday they hadnt lost in the NH since 2010 and would have inevitably started taken wins here for granted. Since the Irish assured us we dont have that luxury the boys in Green and Gold will bring the same hunger and desperation to win , that they reserve for the All blacks . I'm not a betting man but England Springboks will be one i'm betting on for sure .The English will play a similar gameplan to our and with Farrell instead of the brilliant Sexton torturing us , i'm very confident .

Lambie looks likely to start hopefully with Reinach (although thats asking for much on my part) Strauss will replace Bismarck in another "rotation" and JPP will be on in place of Hendricks . I also fancy Goosen to be on the bench to provide another flyhalf option

I'll say this about the Yellow too.  When it happened I actually felt that might have been the beginning of our defeat.  Very good sides tend to turn the man-down scenario in their favour many times.  Whether it's spite, anger, the feeling of getting even or just the total necessity for all players then to up their game, but it's certainly not always the disaster it's often printed as when a truly good side loses a player.

SA are one such seriously good side, so when they went their man down I actually fretted that they'd use this new weapon of anger and spitefulness to drive us into the ground.
I'm glad our guys didn't let the extra-man syndrome get to them, and instead of relaxing into a false sense of security, I think they were actually programmed to be even more cautious of a wounded SA, which is how the extra-man bonus should always be used.

Our illdiscipline was one of our biggest downfalls, on attack and defence.

The difference was 4 or 5 kicks taken by Ireland and we didn't take ours.

Biltong wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:Second time Romain Poite has screwed us . Hate the bastard , really hope he never finds himself ruining any more games involving the springboks in the near future. Why cant they just clone Nigel Owens and distribute him around the world and make an extra "Argentian version" so he can ref Wales too. Problem Solved

Absolute disgrace of a comment, seriously poor. Poite spent the best part of 60mins trying to keep a full compliment of SA players on the field. Is it really his fault that SA lost their cool?

Always have found SA fans to be pretty good and understanding but this takes the cake. Gladly I know that you are not a representative of SA fans.

Nachos, you were begging for a yellow card from the start, best you say nothing.

I am begging for a yellow card? For what exactly, the fact that I dislike poor sportsmanship? Please send me any messages that I may have made that are outside the rules or have been offensive.

bBause you are a South African fan, feeling bad because you lost does not give you the right to use you moderator status to threaten me with bans when I have done nothing wrong.

Nachos Jones wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:Second time Romain Poite has screwed us . Hate the bastard , really hope he never finds himself ruining any more games involving the springboks in the near future. Why cant they just clone Nigel Owens and distribute him around the world and make an extra "Argentian version" so he can ref Wales too. Problem Solved

Absolute disgrace of a comment, seriously poor. Poite spent the best part of 60mins trying to keep a full compliment of SA players on the field. Is it really his fault that SA lost their cool?

Always have found SA fans to be pretty good and understanding but this takes the cake. Gladly I know that you are not a representative of SA fans.

Nachos, you were begging for a yellow card from the start, best you say nothing.

I am begging for a yellow card? For what exactly, the fact that I dislike poor sportsmanship? Please send me any messages that I may have made that are outside the rules or have been offensive.

bBause you are a South African fan, feeling bad because you lost does not give you the right to use you moderator status to threaten me with bans when I have done nothing wrong.

You were threatened with a ban ? If you would take off your blinkers for a second and read through the forum post match you will note I was one of the first to congratulate Ireland for the win with out without Poite as they were the better team . But dont let that stop you from getting yourself worked up into a huff. Poite was crap end of story you being offended and accusing me of bad sportsmanship wont change that fact .

Nachos Jones wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:Second time Romain Poite has screwed us . Hate the bastard , really hope he never finds himself ruining any more games involving the springboks in the near future. Why cant they just clone Nigel Owens and distribute him around the world and make an extra "Argentian version" so he can ref Wales too. Problem Solved

Absolute disgrace of a comment, seriously poor. Poite spent the best part of 60mins trying to keep a full compliment of SA players on the field. Is it really his fault that SA lost their cool?

Always have found SA fans to be pretty good and understanding but this takes the cake. Gladly I know that you are not a representative of SA fans.

Nachos, you were begging for a yellow card from the start, best you say nothing.

I am begging for a yellow card? For what exactly, the fact that I dislike poor sportsmanship? Please send me any messages that I may have made that are outside the rules or have been offensive.

bBause you are a South African fan, feeling bad because you lost does not give you the right to use you moderator status to threaten me with bans when I have done nothing wrong.

You begged for a yellow card in the first minute of the game, as for my moderator status, you were not threatened, you were not told you'll get a ban, stop using the "moderator threat" as an excuse

Bullsbok.

Poite had very little influence on the match. He could have shown a yellow in the first half for the elbow or the build up of team fouls against SA. The second half, SA were constantly infringing due to being under pressure and loosing their cool. The actual offence warranted nothing but the build up of offences justified a YC. Saying you 'Hate the bastard' is very much poor sportsmanship.

There could have been a yellow for Coetzee at the start in my view, leading with the elbow into the throat of the opponent. He was lucky. I don't believe for a second there was nay intent there at all nut still dangerous play. I have no complaints about the outcome, stone cold penalty, but yeah it could have very easily been a yellow. Was borderline.

But the yellow that was given was farcical.

Anyway. It's quite embarrassing that a new centre pairing who probably only practised playing together on Xbox defended their channels so easily against ours. More so given the fact that we don't even have a shortage of centres, Meyer just refuses to see reason.

Henshaw certainly stood up and made a good account of himself, I see a very long career for him in green. Not at all convinced about Payne being the replacement of BOD, he does not look comfortable at 13. He is an excellent 15 but he will have to special to oust Kearney. I actually thought that Kearney was the MOTM yesterday.

On a side note, I was massively impressed with Toner yesterday, he is not bringing a lot more physicality to matches and he never shied away from the contact area.

Bullsbok wrote:The only positive outcome from this game is that the Boks WILL beat England next week and thats very important come world cup time . Prior to yesterday they hadnt lost in the NH since 2010 and would have inevitably started taken wins here for granted. Since the Irish assured us we dont  have that luxury the boys in Green and Gold will bring the same hunger and desperation to win , that they reserve for the All blacks . I'm not a betting man but England Springboks will be one i'm betting on for sure .The English will play a similar gameplan to our and with Farrell instead of the brilliant Sexton torturing us , i'm very confident .

Lambie looks likely to start hopefully with Reinach (although thats asking for much on my part) Strauss will replace Bismarck in another "rotation" and JPP will be on in place of Hendricks . I also fancy Goosen to be on the bench to provide another flyhalf option  

yes, i've heard your confidence before. you havent played england since 2012 AIs where SA won by a point. England are a lot better now than then, and have plenty of first choice players coming back from injury.

So i think you are dead wrong. England will be relishing the game at HQ and will feel confident. England beat Ireland in what should have been the decider in the 6Ns in Feb in a very tight match. You obviously havent been following english rugby much.

I hope the SA squad go into the game as confident as they did against ireland and as you seem to be for them against England.

Roman Poitre has no love of Ireland either. This guy red carded Paul O'Connell. I don't think he is biased one way or another, he is just a poor ref.

SA lost the worst person they could have when they lost Strauss - taking the heat out of their lineout and the scrum, so no platform.

Paul O'Connell is some man. 17 tackles and missed none. McGrath unbelievable as well at 17 (missing 3). Phenomenal workrate.

By the way, big thumbs up to Heaslip who had his best game in an Irish jersey since about 2009.

Also, I do wonder whether we've actually progressed this year. This must be the first year in the Meyer era we could have lost every single RC match we played. We would have lost to the Welsh had it not been for a boneheaded shoulder charge, and we've just been shellacked by Ireland's second maybe third team. Just seems to be that the car might be rolling backwards, with that victory over the All Blacks nothing more than an illusory red herring. Maybe it was less an improvement on our part, and more the law of averages, combined with a boneheaded shoulder charge, combined with the fortune of being at altitude to kick at 55m?

it's amazing what all that rest that the irish centrally contracted players get, can do for peak performance