Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
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Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
First topic message reminder :
In six days time Ireland will host South Africa in their first test of the November tours. South Africa will have to lift themselves for this one as the standard under Meyer has ben exemplary in Europe, he is yet to lose a test match and the Six Nations champions gets first shot at breaking Meyer's unbeaten streak over the Six Nations teams.
It seems both teams are effected by injuries so their depth will be severely tested.
South African players unavailable due to injury.
Props - Marcel v d Merwe, Frans Malherbe
Hooker - Schalk Brits, Callie Visagie
Locks - Pieter Steph du Toit, Flip v d Merwe
Back Row - Frans Louw, Willem Alberts, Siya Kolisi, Arno Botha
Halfback - Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar (Pending a fitness test)
Midfield - Jaque Fourie
Irish players unavailable due to injury.
Props - Healy, Moore, Ross (Questionable)
Hooker - Cronin, Best (questionable)
Locks - Tuohy, Ryan
Back Row - Henderson, Murphy, O'Brien
Halfback -
Flyhalf - Sexton (Questionable)
Midfield - Darcy (questionable)
Back Three - Kearney, Earls, Trimble, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Bowe (questionable)
Ireland has been rather successful against South Africa in the last decade, managing wins in 2004, 2006 and 2009.
South Africa 31 - 17 Ireland
South Africa 26 - 17 Ireland
Ireland 17 - 12 South Africa
Ireland 32 - 15 South Africa
Ireland 15 - 10 South Africa
Ireland 21 - 23 South Africa
Ireland 12 - 16 South Africa
Likely matchday 23 for South Africa.
1. Tendai Mtwarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Jannie du PLessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Victor Matfield
6. Marcell Coetzee
7. Oupa Mohoje
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Handre Pollard
11. Brya Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jan Serfontein
14. Cornal Hendricks
15. Willie le Roux.
Subs
16. Coenie Oosthuizen
17. Adriaan Strauss
18. Julian Redelinghuys
19. Bakkies Botha
20. Schalk Burger
21. Cobus Reinach
22. Johan Goosen
23. Patrick Lambie/Damien de Allende
Likely Irish matchday 23. (Help please)
Ireland will be keen to beat the Springboks, even though they are unlikely to meet them in earlier rounds of the RWC it will give them validation and confidence for the Rugby World Cup. Under their new coach I expect them to throw the ball around and attempt to run the SPringboks off their feet, Ireland is also more used to the conditions and could use that to their advantage, I suspect the territorial game will be part of their plans.
It is easier sad than done though, the only team in recent years that managed to run the Springboks off their feet was New Zealand, and that was at altitude. South Africa these days play more adventurous rugby and at a great pace as well, newcomer Handre POllard will be on his first trip to Europe, so it might take him a while to adapt, but once on song he will be the danger man, South Africa attacks a lot flatter without Morne Steyn which does provide more hesitation in opposition defences and creates more space for their outside backs.
One issue with South Africa this season has been their inconsistency in performances, and they will have to be on song from the start.
Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has warned his team they will need to be at their best if they are to keep their unbeaten record under his management in the northern hemisphere intact.
Meyer singled out the team’s first fixture against Ireland as a crucial one to kick off the team’s four week tour, and one which is the most tricky of all their fixtures.
The Boks know they cannot focus on the Twickenham showdown before getting past the tricky Irish, who have been a team that has plagued them at this time of year under previous coaches.
The Boks will know all too well how a poor opening performance can set the trend for the tour, and with chances to experiment getting less and less ahead of the World Cup, it is imperative that the team kick off the tour on a high note.
“We have a proud record and we haven’t lost a game there. But we have a proud record and this is probably the toughest tour we have faced to the Northern Hemisphere. I truly believe Ireland is an unbelievable team, they were unlucky not to beat the All Blacks last year.
“They’ve got a great coaching staff, a lot of in-form players and their defence is great. They’ve got a good kicking game in those conditions."
That's it boys, enjoy the discussion.
In six days time Ireland will host South Africa in their first test of the November tours. South Africa will have to lift themselves for this one as the standard under Meyer has ben exemplary in Europe, he is yet to lose a test match and the Six Nations champions gets first shot at breaking Meyer's unbeaten streak over the Six Nations teams.
It seems both teams are effected by injuries so their depth will be severely tested.
South African players unavailable due to injury.
Props - Marcel v d Merwe, Frans Malherbe
Hooker - Schalk Brits, Callie Visagie
Locks - Pieter Steph du Toit, Flip v d Merwe
Back Row - Frans Louw, Willem Alberts, Siya Kolisi, Arno Botha
Halfback - Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar (Pending a fitness test)
Midfield - Jaque Fourie
Irish players unavailable due to injury.
Props - Healy, Moore, Ross (Questionable)
Hooker - Cronin, Best (questionable)
Locks - Tuohy, Ryan
Back Row - Henderson, Murphy, O'Brien
Halfback -
Flyhalf - Sexton (Questionable)
Midfield - Darcy (questionable)
Back Three - Kearney, Earls, Trimble, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Bowe (questionable)
Ireland has been rather successful against South Africa in the last decade, managing wins in 2004, 2006 and 2009.
South Africa 31 - 17 Ireland
South Africa 26 - 17 Ireland
Ireland 17 - 12 South Africa
Ireland 32 - 15 South Africa
Ireland 15 - 10 South Africa
Ireland 21 - 23 South Africa
Ireland 12 - 16 South Africa
Likely matchday 23 for South Africa.
1. Tendai Mtwarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Jannie du PLessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Victor Matfield
6. Marcell Coetzee
7. Oupa Mohoje
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Handre Pollard
11. Brya Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jan Serfontein
14. Cornal Hendricks
15. Willie le Roux.
Subs
16. Coenie Oosthuizen
17. Adriaan Strauss
18. Julian Redelinghuys
19. Bakkies Botha
20. Schalk Burger
21. Cobus Reinach
22. Johan Goosen
23. Patrick Lambie/Damien de Allende
Likely Irish matchday 23. (Help please)
Ireland will be keen to beat the Springboks, even though they are unlikely to meet them in earlier rounds of the RWC it will give them validation and confidence for the Rugby World Cup. Under their new coach I expect them to throw the ball around and attempt to run the SPringboks off their feet, Ireland is also more used to the conditions and could use that to their advantage, I suspect the territorial game will be part of their plans.
It is easier sad than done though, the only team in recent years that managed to run the Springboks off their feet was New Zealand, and that was at altitude. South Africa these days play more adventurous rugby and at a great pace as well, newcomer Handre POllard will be on his first trip to Europe, so it might take him a while to adapt, but once on song he will be the danger man, South Africa attacks a lot flatter without Morne Steyn which does provide more hesitation in opposition defences and creates more space for their outside backs.
One issue with South Africa this season has been their inconsistency in performances, and they will have to be on song from the start.
Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has warned his team they will need to be at their best if they are to keep their unbeaten record under his management in the northern hemisphere intact.
Meyer singled out the team’s first fixture against Ireland as a crucial one to kick off the team’s four week tour, and one which is the most tricky of all their fixtures.
The Boks know they cannot focus on the Twickenham showdown before getting past the tricky Irish, who have been a team that has plagued them at this time of year under previous coaches.
The Boks will know all too well how a poor opening performance can set the trend for the tour, and with chances to experiment getting less and less ahead of the World Cup, it is imperative that the team kick off the tour on a high note.
“We have a proud record and we haven’t lost a game there. But we have a proud record and this is probably the toughest tour we have faced to the Northern Hemisphere. I truly believe Ireland is an unbelievable team, they were unlucky not to beat the All Blacks last year.
“They’ve got a great coaching staff, a lot of in-form players and their defence is great. They’ve got a good kicking game in those conditions."
That's it boys, enjoy the discussion.
Last edited by Biltong on Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added SExton and Best, thanks Notch,)
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Link to Ross breaking bind
Edit: Damn thing said it coppied URL at selected time. Anyway 1t's from 1:29:25
Edit: Damn thing said it coppied URL at selected time. Anyway 1t's from 1:29:25
Submachine- Posts : 1092
Join date : 2011-06-21
Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
The Loaded Dog wrote:When does Australia next play Georgia then?
Ha, you never know. We struggled against them in the '07 WC in France.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
GunsGerms wrote:The Loaded Dog wrote:When does Australia next play Georgia then?
Ha, you never know. We struggled against them in the '07 WC in France.
I know...
Pal Joey- PJ
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
One thing that has not been mentioned that much considering the amount of focus it has wrongly in my opinion been given over the last year is how Ireland would fare post BOD at 13.
As great as he was I never thought it would matter that much as Schmidt is a master of maximising what you have and playing to strengths. What I liked about Payne and Henshaw's performances was that although neither of them set the world on fire they both played with confidence and both looked like they were following a very specific brief and as a result knew exactly what they were meant to be doing at all points.
I think when you are well drilled to the point that you know exactly what you are meant to be doing at all times you will do ok 9 times out of 10. They will take a massive amount of confidence from this win.
Key stat, Ireland didnt make one single offload. This IMO was part of the game plan in terms of not over complicating things.
As great as he was I never thought it would matter that much as Schmidt is a master of maximising what you have and playing to strengths. What I liked about Payne and Henshaw's performances was that although neither of them set the world on fire they both played with confidence and both looked like they were following a very specific brief and as a result knew exactly what they were meant to be doing at all points.
I think when you are well drilled to the point that you know exactly what you are meant to be doing at all times you will do ok 9 times out of 10. They will take a massive amount of confidence from this win.
Key stat, Ireland didnt make one single offload. This IMO was part of the game plan in terms of not over complicating things.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Age : 44
Location : Ireland
Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Well spotted Guns. And hopefully no other side spots it! The resistance - the seeming stubborn resistance of the Irish to utilise the Offload. Even when the use of a few might give us more space and take pressure off, and even at moments of least risk - we still seem to refuse the offer.
I think the dearth of offloads (not just in the weekend's game) is yes a design.
But I think it's also a major factor in the continuing idea that Ireland might be still more a luckier side than a 'good' side. I think fans from all sides look at us and think we're not doing anything that special - playing simple gameplans if you will - and thus tend to always keep downgrading us as honest triers rather than a team with true potential to do something in the WC.
And I think that's Schmidt at work again with his mind games as much as strategies. Afterall, the 6N Champions, at home, were universally expected to get a bit of a beating from a side that had recently beaten the All Blacks. Yes, SA were AB beaters - but not much credence was given to the idea that Ireland 'surprisingly' almost beat the All Blacks at home the year before... and went on to win the 6N in Schmidt's first year. Not to be sniffed at as a competitive side of serious intent. But nope - SA were going to steamroll us with power and invention was the story of the previews.
I think that continuing undervaluing of what Ireland brings is down to Schmidt keeping the blueprint oh so simple. We're seen as decent sloggers catching a bit of luck along the way and I hope that view of us is sustained right up until the WC. Who knows - we might start offloading then to add surprise élan to the graft
I think the dearth of offloads (not just in the weekend's game) is yes a design.
But I think it's also a major factor in the continuing idea that Ireland might be still more a luckier side than a 'good' side. I think fans from all sides look at us and think we're not doing anything that special - playing simple gameplans if you will - and thus tend to always keep downgrading us as honest triers rather than a team with true potential to do something in the WC.
And I think that's Schmidt at work again with his mind games as much as strategies. Afterall, the 6N Champions, at home, were universally expected to get a bit of a beating from a side that had recently beaten the All Blacks. Yes, SA were AB beaters - but not much credence was given to the idea that Ireland 'surprisingly' almost beat the All Blacks at home the year before... and went on to win the 6N in Schmidt's first year. Not to be sniffed at as a competitive side of serious intent. But nope - SA were going to steamroll us with power and invention was the story of the previews.
I think that continuing undervaluing of what Ireland brings is down to Schmidt keeping the blueprint oh so simple. We're seen as decent sloggers catching a bit of luck along the way and I hope that view of us is sustained right up until the WC. Who knows - we might start offloading then to add surprise élan to the graft
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12
Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
OK, I reviewed the first half of the Springboks to see who did what.
It takes a bit of time so I don't have the time or inclination to sit through te second half as well.
Here is what I observed.
Beast scrummed well, but very quiet, no carries, a few tackles, nothing special.
Bismarck concedes a penalty on a Irish ruck by going in from the side 5 meters out from the Irish line. Bismarck again conceding a penalty for entry into the side on an attacking ruck 30 meters from the Irish line, scrummed well, his throws were accurate, but otherwise nothing outstanding.
Jannie drops the second scrum and gets penalised. Jannie drives over the line out and turns the ball over to SA inside Irish 22, his best play of the half. He scrummed well after the penalty, otherwise nothing outstanding.
Etzebeth steals two line outs, one 5 meters from the Irish line, otherwise nothing outstanding.
Matfield is turned over in the tackle as he cannot secure the ball. Did well in the line outs, made some of the calls not to go for post. Nothing worth noting from him.
Coetzee the outstanding player of the half, carried the ball, was physical, and nothing to criticise apart from the backrow in general not hitting the rucks effectively.
Mohoje stole one Irish line out, had a few drives, but nothing outstanding, mostly invisible.
Vermeulen made one mistake in the half, he dropped an up and under but secured a couple as well, the lone ranger at the breakdown with little support, otherwise nothing noteworthy.
Hougaard had a mixed bag, he dropped a ball 2 meters from the line, definite scoring opportunity lost. Ireland kicked through and made 50 meters. His one up and under was too far and poorly chased. Hougaard dropped another ball at the back of the maul, but you might want to blame the forwards as that was the second maul where POite called use it and the forwards don’t let go. The previous maul POite supposedly called, we were edging toward the line and he called turnover.
He made a very poor pass out wide, saved by Serfontein. He also received a ball flicked back by Coetzee as The Irish come around another maul they didn’t commit too, Hougaard under severe pressure and no forwards protected him.
Pollard made a few mistakes, he missed touch twice, He backtracked well for a [removed]ton chip kick, but Kearney showed him up badly and broke the first line of defence to go straight through. His up and unders didn’t work as they were too long and not well chased. He stuffed a few inside passes, too hard, and it seemed as if he panicked a bit on attack.
Habana literally did nothing in the first half.
Serfontein had a decent first half, he made some half breaks, got a good offload to Jean de Villiers, made his tackles and threw one poor pass. Conceded a penalty immediately after Pollard missed the tackle on Kearney.
De Villiers was quiet, threw one wild pass, took the offload from Serfontein, made poor decisions in regards to not going for goal, but was otherwise invisible.
Hendricks made one successful chase after a restart, but then missed the tackle, invisible.
Willie had a great first half, he missed touch once, but other than that he took his up and unders, he made a run, had a great territorial kick
There were two very good try scoring opportunities wasted.
One was by Poite, we had a maul, it went forward stopped for less than a second, went again, and the next time it stopped for maybe a second, we continued and Poite decided that was enough, had he not stopped it and called a turnover we would have scored as we were almost over the line already. I thought that was a very harsh call.
The second opportunity was when Hougaard took his eye of the ball whilst fighting for possession of the ball that was in the hands of Etzebeth, two meters out and we lost it, Ireland kicked it through and the pressure was relieved.
Then there were also the three decisions not to go for goal
It takes a bit of time so I don't have the time or inclination to sit through te second half as well.
Here is what I observed.
Beast scrummed well, but very quiet, no carries, a few tackles, nothing special.
Bismarck concedes a penalty on a Irish ruck by going in from the side 5 meters out from the Irish line. Bismarck again conceding a penalty for entry into the side on an attacking ruck 30 meters from the Irish line, scrummed well, his throws were accurate, but otherwise nothing outstanding.
Jannie drops the second scrum and gets penalised. Jannie drives over the line out and turns the ball over to SA inside Irish 22, his best play of the half. He scrummed well after the penalty, otherwise nothing outstanding.
Etzebeth steals two line outs, one 5 meters from the Irish line, otherwise nothing outstanding.
Matfield is turned over in the tackle as he cannot secure the ball. Did well in the line outs, made some of the calls not to go for post. Nothing worth noting from him.
Coetzee the outstanding player of the half, carried the ball, was physical, and nothing to criticise apart from the backrow in general not hitting the rucks effectively.
Mohoje stole one Irish line out, had a few drives, but nothing outstanding, mostly invisible.
Vermeulen made one mistake in the half, he dropped an up and under but secured a couple as well, the lone ranger at the breakdown with little support, otherwise nothing noteworthy.
Hougaard had a mixed bag, he dropped a ball 2 meters from the line, definite scoring opportunity lost. Ireland kicked through and made 50 meters. His one up and under was too far and poorly chased. Hougaard dropped another ball at the back of the maul, but you might want to blame the forwards as that was the second maul where POite called use it and the forwards don’t let go. The previous maul POite supposedly called, we were edging toward the line and he called turnover.
He made a very poor pass out wide, saved by Serfontein. He also received a ball flicked back by Coetzee as The Irish come around another maul they didn’t commit too, Hougaard under severe pressure and no forwards protected him.
Pollard made a few mistakes, he missed touch twice, He backtracked well for a [removed]ton chip kick, but Kearney showed him up badly and broke the first line of defence to go straight through. His up and unders didn’t work as they were too long and not well chased. He stuffed a few inside passes, too hard, and it seemed as if he panicked a bit on attack.
Habana literally did nothing in the first half.
Serfontein had a decent first half, he made some half breaks, got a good offload to Jean de Villiers, made his tackles and threw one poor pass. Conceded a penalty immediately after Pollard missed the tackle on Kearney.
De Villiers was quiet, threw one wild pass, took the offload from Serfontein, made poor decisions in regards to not going for goal, but was otherwise invisible.
Hendricks made one successful chase after a restart, but then missed the tackle, invisible.
Willie had a great first half, he missed touch once, but other than that he took his up and unders, he made a run, had a great territorial kick
There were two very good try scoring opportunities wasted.
One was by Poite, we had a maul, it went forward stopped for less than a second, went again, and the next time it stopped for maybe a second, we continued and Poite decided that was enough, had he not stopped it and called a turnover we would have scored as we were almost over the line already. I thought that was a very harsh call.
The second opportunity was when Hougaard took his eye of the ball whilst fighting for possession of the ball that was in the hands of Etzebeth, two meters out and we lost it, Ireland kicked it through and the pressure was relieved.
Then there were also the three decisions not to go for goal
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
I think Zebo was Ireland's worst player. Again his defense was exposed as he was at least partially to blame for the last SA try which was a very soft try by our standards. If we hadnt conceded that we would now be ranked third in the world for the second time in our history.
Although he didnt do much wrong otherwise he was very quiet for most of the game which was probably the game plan anyway.
Although he didnt do much wrong otherwise he was very quiet for most of the game which was probably the game plan anyway.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Can't blame him for the try. We had Reddan on at that point and their was confusion in the centres. He did look a little shy in competing for the ball when chasing kicks and was stood up once late in the second half.
He does seem to struggle when a player is running directly at him. He is fine when tackling side on but seems unable to get his feet in the right position and also stands up too high when the attacker is running directly at him.
He does seem to struggle when a player is running directly at him. He is fine when tackling side on but seems unable to get his feet in the right position and also stands up too high when the attacker is running directly at him.
Submachine- Posts : 1092
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
GunsGerms wrote:I think Zebo was Ireland's worst player. Again his defense was exposed as he was at least partially to blame for the last SA try which was a very soft try by our standards. If we hadnt conceded that we would now be ranked third in the world for the second time in our history.
Although he didnt do much wrong otherwise he was very quiet for most of the game which was probably the game plan anyway.
Oh my god...you must have been up all night waiting to post that was wondering when you would chip in with the rubbish. Surprising it wasnt POM but given he played brilliantly I guess you couldnt anyhow....in terms of the try can you explain to us all where it was his fault. Now I know I think he is a great winger but I dont think he is capable of looking like Jamie Heaslip missing the tackle which let the Boks in behind us....
Anyhow he was so quiet he was our second best ball carrier and made lots of hard yards taking the ball back up. Didnt kick wastefully and was always secure. Even hit his rucks and supported Kearney very well (Joe will be pleased). Just to note it was Bowe who didnt support Kearney which lead to the penalty before the try for the Boks if you do need to start blaming someone...
what a sad individual you are....
ME-109- Posts : 5258
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Im not the only one who thinks he was our worst player:
http://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/ireland-player-ratings-v-south-africa-30731684.html
Jim Glennon agrees with me. I know "Zeebs" is your love child but I reckon Dave Kearney will not be too worried after that performance.
Irish times gave him a 6 too.
http://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/ireland-player-ratings-v-south-africa-30731684.html
Jim Glennon agrees with me. I know "Zeebs" is your love child but I reckon Dave Kearney will not be too worried after that performance.
Irish times gave him a 6 too.
Last edited by GunsGerms on Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Didn't think Pollard had a great game. But I reckon he really kicks on as a player after that performance, it was a decent kind of wake up call to get.
SA always thought they were going to win the game easily. That's why they were kicking the corners and not taking the easy points. I think by the time they (the captains) realised that they were in proper contest it was too late. When they chased the game they seemed to me to go back to type, looking for big ball carriers up the gut but Ireland were defensively set to cope with that.
Territory, possession and tackle count were all in SAs favour. But Ireland didn't need extented periods of time with the ball in order to score, when they did get the ball in the opposition half they used it, put it in the corners or came away with points. Not sure on the no-offloads front, their were plenty of passes before contact. Take Robs break where he gave the ball to Payne, before it was recycled and Sexton broke the line before SA conceded a penalty for holding on in the tackle. To me that was an offload as he had the defender committed to the tackle. I only wish Ireland were at this stage of development before last years 6Ns then they would have 12-15 games to refine their play and add in the wrinkles that add spice to the attack and keeps teams guessing on defense. Hopefully our game isn't still too simple this time next year.
SA always thought they were going to win the game easily. That's why they were kicking the corners and not taking the easy points. I think by the time they (the captains) realised that they were in proper contest it was too late. When they chased the game they seemed to me to go back to type, looking for big ball carriers up the gut but Ireland were defensively set to cope with that.
Territory, possession and tackle count were all in SAs favour. But Ireland didn't need extented periods of time with the ball in order to score, when they did get the ball in the opposition half they used it, put it in the corners or came away with points. Not sure on the no-offloads front, their were plenty of passes before contact. Take Robs break where he gave the ball to Payne, before it was recycled and Sexton broke the line before SA conceded a penalty for holding on in the tackle. To me that was an offload as he had the defender committed to the tackle. I only wish Ireland were at this stage of development before last years 6Ns then they would have 12-15 games to refine their play and add in the wrinkles that add spice to the attack and keeps teams guessing on defense. Hopefully our game isn't still too simple this time next year.
thebandwagonsociety- Posts : 2901
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
I said it would all kick off at 8.00 am on Sunday morning.
I was...unusually so!!!!!!!!!!!!!......... wrong.
It actually kicked off a day late at 12.10 am or so.
I'm mad with myself!!!
I was...unusually so!!!!!!!!!!!!!......... wrong.
It actually kicked off a day late at 12.10 am or so.
I'm mad with myself!!!
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
GunsGerms wrote:Im not the only one who thinks he was our worst player:
http://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/ireland-player-ratings-v-south-africa-30731684.html
Jim Glennon agrees with me. I know "Zeebs" is your love child but I reckon Dave Kearney will not be too worried after that performance.
Irish times gave him a 6 too.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/autumn-internationals/tony-ward-icecool-murray-underlines-captaincy-credentials-in-an-ireland-display-for-the-ages-30731333.html
Am sure Zebo will be quite happy with his game not one mistake I would say. And also managed to run more than two metres without falling over on his own. Kearney will be a good tackle bag holder come the six nations...
ME-109- Posts : 5258
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
.GunsGerms wrote:Im not the only one who thinks he was our worst player:
http://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/ireland-player-ratings-v-south-africa-30731684.html
Jim Glennon agrees with me. I know "Zeebs" is your love child but I reckon Dave Kearney will not be too worried after that performance.
Irish times gave him a 6 too.
Bit harsh singling out our "worst". i'm sure Schmidt will be showing all players where they should be learning from mistakes and maybe Zebo was just unfortunate that a try was scored down his wing. massively unfair to blame it soley on Zebo
GoodinTightSpaces- Posts : 391
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Think Zebo and D Kearney both have to be worried about a returning Trimble taking that wing position. Trimble has been immense in Green last 6Ns and Bowe is showing real class on the other wing. So both Simon and Dave will have to fight it out for the bench position. What a strong selection position to be in.
thebandwagonsociety- Posts : 2901
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Who blamed the try solely on Zebo?
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Also he rated POC as a 7. disregard anything he has to say.
GoodinTightSpaces- Posts : 391
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
GunsGerms wrote:Im not the only one who thinks he was our worst player:
http://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/ireland-player-ratings-v-south-africa-30731684.html
Jim Glennon agrees with me. I know "Zeebs" is your love child but I reckon Dave Kearney will not be too worried after that performance.
Irish times gave him a 6 too.
Thought Zebo was ok. As for Dave Kearney, he's got Trimble, Bowe, Gilroy, Zebo, Fitzgerald ahead of him as far as I'm concerned. Thought it pains me to agree with DOD, Dave Kearney is a solid dependable workhorse - no more. Ditto McFadden.
brennomac- Posts : 824
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
brennomac wrote:GunsGerms wrote:Im not the only one who thinks he was our worst player:
http://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/ireland-player-ratings-v-south-africa-30731684.html
Jim Glennon agrees with me. I know "Zeebs" is your love child but I reckon Dave Kearney will not be too worried after that performance.
Irish times gave him a 6 too.
Thought Zebo was ok. As for Dave Kearney, he's got Trimble, Bowe, Gilroy, Zebo, Fitzgerald ahead of him as far as I'm concerned. Thought it pains me to agree with DOD, Dave Kearney is a solid dependable workhorse - no more. Ditto McFadden.
+1
GoodinTightSpaces- Posts : 391
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Wonder will Earls and Fitz even go to the WC? Great depth on the wings.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
The randomest piece of graffiti I ever saw was a slogan sprayed on the wall at the harbour in Balbriggan. It read:
"What's the point of Jim Glennon"
True story.
"What's the point of Jim Glennon"
True story.
Submachine- Posts : 1092
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
GunsGerms wrote:Who blamed the try solely on Zebo?
I have to admit Guns you really are a mealy mouthed little culchie, your posting while not clearly blaming Zebo for the try puts the onus on him as the worst player yada yada even though it was absolutely nothing to do with him. The score has Zebo, Kearney and Bowe all on the same level. Which is probably more accurate.
So in your infinite wisdom...pray let us know how Zebo was our worst player....I for one am certainly looking forward to your analysis....
ME-109- Posts : 5258
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Joe keeps mentioning him (Earls) so I'd say if he's fit, he's a player Schmidt really seems to want to work with. I'd like to see what would happen too.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
GoodinTightSpaces wrote:Also he rated POC as a 7. disregard anything he has to say.
Why? Are we not allowed criticise Poc? We lost at least 3 lineouts against the head and Poc admitted that was because he called the lineout poorly. 7 is fair enough. Possibly 8.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
GunsGerms wrote:Wonder will Earls and Fitz even go to the WC? Great depth on the wings.
Forgot about Earls, if he's fit then he's another ahead of Dave K in the pecking order - that makes six ahead of him. If all these wingers are fit then it leaves Joe with a selection headache for the WC - only two nailed down I think are Trimble and Bowe. Maybe wingers that cover other positions (Fitzgerald) might have an advantage over specialist 11 and 14's
brennomac- Posts : 824
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Joe would like to get his hands on Earls (coaching wise) but hasnt had the chance...yet. As a Munster supporter given how he was moved all over the shop by McGahan and Penney I would like that very much.
ME-109- Posts : 5258
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
ME-109 wrote:GunsGerms wrote:Who blamed the try solely on Zebo?
I have to admit Guns you really are a mealy mouthed little culchie.
Haha hilarious. Cracker Dod.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
GunsGerms wrote:GoodinTightSpaces wrote:Also he rated POC as a 7. disregard anything he has to say.
Why? Are we not allowed criticise Poc? We lost at least 3 lineouts against the head and Poc admitted that was because he called the lineout poorly. 7 is fair enough. Possibly 8.
i thought he was exceptional. played the captains role by taking the collective blame for the line out
GoodinTightSpaces- Posts : 391
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
brennomac wrote:GunsGerms wrote:Wonder will Earls and Fitz even go to the WC? Great depth on the wings.
Forgot about Earls, if he's fit then he's another ahead of Dave K in the pecking order - that makes six ahead of him. If all these wingers are fit then it leaves Joe with a selection headache for the WC - only two nailed down I think are Trimble and Bowe. Maybe wingers that cover other positions (Fitzgerald) might have an advantage over specialist 11 and 14's
I agree on Trimble and Bowe but IMO its a coin toss between the rest of them on current form.
Last edited by GunsGerms on Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Just thankful we have quality options on the wings when the injuries happen. Would love to see a fit and flying Earls on the left. Personally think he is our best left winger.
Submachine- Posts : 1092
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Possibly. I think leaving Earls out of a WC squad would be a big call.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Still waiting for your analysis Guns...or was it just the old school bias coming out and nothing new in what you said? Just a bit of fluff...same as usual..
ME-109- Posts : 5258
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Dont take yourself so seriously Dod. Zebo didnt have a terrible game but he was quiet. I do think he has work to do in defense. He isnt in the same league as Trimble and Bowe yet in terms of all round ability etc. so plenty to work on.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
That sounds like a lot of sound bites and showing a little bit of sheep mentality really guns. Cant you come up with anything new or even insightful (i.e intelligent)
ME-109- Posts : 5258
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
ME-109 wrote:That sounds like a lot of sound bites and showing a little bit of sheep mentality really guns. Cant you come up with anything new or even insightful (i.e intelligent)
Just read two Thornley articles and Tolands match report in the Times and Zebo wasnt mentioned once. That says it all really. He had a quiet game.
Was also at the match and had to check the programme at half time to confirm he was playing.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
"No heroics. Be quiet. Play it my way or the highway"
I guess Zebo is just happy to be there - a lesson learned. And learning how to be 'unseen' lest Joe sees him and gets mad at what he's seeing! Poor Zeebs - it's a Catch 22 world for him from here to the WC.
I guess Zebo is just happy to be there - a lesson learned. And learning how to be 'unseen' lest Joe sees him and gets mad at what he's seeing! Poor Zeebs - it's a Catch 22 world for him from here to the WC.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
SecretFly wrote:"No heroics. Be quiet. Play it my way or the highway"
Damn right too. If we keep hammering teams like SA who cares what way we play?
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
GunsGerms wrote:ME-109 wrote:That sounds like a lot of sound bites and showing a little bit of sheep mentality really guns. Cant you come up with anything new or even insightful (i.e intelligent)
Just read two Thornley articles and Tolands match report in the Times and Zebo wasnt mentioned once. That says it all really. He had a quiet game.
Was also at the match and had to check the programme at half time to confirm he was playing.
Still not sure how it makes him the worst player...come on Guns you can do better than that. It wasnt exactly an open flowing baa baas game so it was always going to be limited ball in hand. Lets say you take Bowes try out of the equation (cetris paribus and all that). At the end of the day he just had to latch onto Murrays exquisite cross field kick....did he have a good game overall would you say?
Pity you missed the first half (probably in the bar or something). Made some good hard yards, taking the ball up. Boks seemed to keep it away from him after the initial attempts. No mistakes, resourced his rucks and did some good clearouts/support...Anyhow...whatever your having yourself.
ME-109- Posts : 5258
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
You guys have just beaten the Springboks and you're arguing about whether Zebo should have been rated higher than a '6'?
That's a bit like complaining that your girlfriend Irina Shayk is often late and a bit of a scruffy dresser at times. Perspective, people, perspective.
That's a bit like complaining that your girlfriend Irina Shayk is often late and a bit of a scruffy dresser at times. Perspective, people, perspective.
George Carlin- Admin
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Murrays cross kick was divine. Ill give you that. Great to see but you cannot discount the effort of Bowe to make it there. Watch the replay he started making the run long before Murray had ball in hand. I reckon Murray saw this and went for the chip. Bowe timed that run to perfection and that isnt easy. We have seen many ireland wingers butcher (Fitz probably) those chances before whereas Bowe tends to take his chances. His positioning is also first class.
According to the Indo or the Times cant remember in his player rating they said Zebo did a nice clear out on Burger at a ruck. Evidence that he is getting stuck in. All very good but I still think he was our least outstanding player. Who do you think contributed less?
According to the Indo or the Times cant remember in his player rating they said Zebo did a nice clear out on Burger at a ruck. Evidence that he is getting stuck in. All very good but I still think he was our least outstanding player. Who do you think contributed less?
Last edited by GunsGerms on Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
George Carlin wrote:You guys have just beaten the Springboks and you're arguing about whether Zebo should have been rated higher than a '6'?
That's a bit like complaining that your girlfriend Irina Shayk is often late and a bit of a scruffy dresser at times. Perspective, people, perspective.
Oh come on its a bit of bants. Irish people love to argue.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Let's just enjoy the bloody win. Give credit to the bunch of players who gave it to us - and they had to work their socks off to get it (even though!! - I'd say it wasn't by any means the toughest game Ireland ever had to play so let's not go overboard on how good these SH sides [bar ABs] are)
So let's say that a side Schmidt wouldn't have ideally put out, beat SA by remaining cool headed and sticking to the plans they were given. The lapse at the end was not liked by me but it was a team lapse when the pressure of the game was released too early.
But let's enjoy the win, thank the players - all of them, who faced off the SA big men and forced the SA coach to put more big men on which still didn't do the trick.
I hope I see an example of perhaps a more open, counter-attacking ruthless running game against Georgia, just to give some of the players who like that kind of adrenalin a shot in the arm. We'll see.
But for now, the SA game was played the way it needed to be and SA didn't like it that we actually intended to try to win the game rather than simply turning up to be turned over by them. I think that surprised them most - that we actually came to the game with the intention of winning it.
So let's say that a side Schmidt wouldn't have ideally put out, beat SA by remaining cool headed and sticking to the plans they were given. The lapse at the end was not liked by me but it was a team lapse when the pressure of the game was released too early.
But let's enjoy the win, thank the players - all of them, who faced off the SA big men and forced the SA coach to put more big men on which still didn't do the trick.
I hope I see an example of perhaps a more open, counter-attacking ruthless running game against Georgia, just to give some of the players who like that kind of adrenalin a shot in the arm. We'll see.
But for now, the SA game was played the way it needed to be and SA didn't like it that we actually intended to try to win the game rather than simply turning up to be turned over by them. I think that surprised them most - that we actually came to the game with the intention of winning it.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
The mind boggles as to why that would surprise anyone. The fact that JdV practically admitted in his interview that SA underestimated Ireland or as the interviewer put it SA were complacent is very surprising though lets face it anyone who beats the ABs will naturally fancy their chances against anyone else.
It probably did help that they faced us right after that win.
It probably did help that they faced us right after that win.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Oh jaysus. I know. I once stayed in Bundoran and my landlady started an argument with me every morning just so that she could hear my accent.GunsGerms wrote:George Carlin wrote:You guys have just beaten the Springboks and you're arguing about whether Zebo should have been rated higher than a '6'?
That's a bit like complaining that your girlfriend Irina Shayk is often late and a bit of a scruffy dresser at times. Perspective, people, perspective.
Oh come on its a bit of bants. Irish people love to argue.
George Carlin- Admin
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
"Oh jaysus"
You are getting the hang of it.
You are getting the hang of it.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
I am declaring all out provincial war......
You'd think saturday's game hadn't been enjoyable to see the bickering in here.
We won lads, the team, not any individual, the whole side won, the whole squad including the coaching staff. WE WON!!!!!
Raeburn Shield winners all.
You'd think saturday's game hadn't been enjoyable to see the bickering in here.
We won lads, the team, not any individual, the whole side won, the whole squad including the coaching staff. WE WON!!!!!
Raeburn Shield winners all.
Pete330v2- Posts : 4602
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
Pete, your lads didn't win nothing. They were carried by our lads. They had an armchair ride. The were spectators. They had the best seats in the house. They got in for free. They won the raffle. They shirked their responsibility! They were flat. Their form wasn't up to the standards. They choaked under the limelight!
Now admit it.... and be damned!
Now admit it.... and be damned!
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
We might have won but there is clearly a lot to work on. Conceding a soft try towards the end was poor. Some of Sexton's touch finders werent great and I not sure we will be able to rely on the trickery of JSs game plan all the time. We will need some magic ad libbing and there wasnt much of note. The scrum and lineout also need to improve.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
I like the fact that Irish fans aren't happy with the result.
In the end its a great victory but its like England beating NZ at Twickenham in 2012... is there room for improvement, of course. Should they sit back and say well, we've beaten one of the giants of the game, lets not mess with the side or constructively breakdown the performance??? certainly not.
If a guy played bad, he played bad... do you think NZ don't criticise their players in victory. They always do, they strive for excellence.
I like the attitude.
In the end its a great victory but its like England beating NZ at Twickenham in 2012... is there room for improvement, of course. Should they sit back and say well, we've beaten one of the giants of the game, lets not mess with the side or constructively breakdown the performance??? certainly not.
If a guy played bad, he played bad... do you think NZ don't criticise their players in victory. They always do, they strive for excellence.
I like the attitude.
fa0019- Posts : 8196
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Re: Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November
GunsGerms wrote:We might have won but there is clearly a lot to work on. Conceding a soft try towards the end was poor. Some of Sexton's touch finders werent great and I not sure we will be able to rely on the trickery of JSs game plan all the time. We will need some magic ad libbing and there wasnt much of note. The scrum and lineout also need to improve.
This kind of analysis always vexes me. A lot to work on? They work on everything all the time. Tactics, techniques, law interpretation they are always evolving.
It was a soft try but the game was won and we had a makeshift backline at that point.
Did Sexton miss any touch kicks? He didn't get great distance on one and was nursing cramp at the time. It's also a funny shaped ball and apt to do it's own thing occasionally.
In my opinion no other coach can prepare for the opposition as well as JS. There is no trickery involved just analysis, an awareness of our own strengths and limitations and the best possible strategy to win any game on any given day. Didn't quite come off against England last year but the gameplan was spot on. JS doesn't do ad Libbing. When space and opportunity present themselves we have the players to exploit it whilst playing within the gameplan. We had a couple of great line breaks by Kearney and Sexton and I think both led to scores.
Scrum and lineout can always be improved but it's not as if we were playing against some second string club side. You can't expect to have a perfect game against South Africa or any international side. Georgia will have 15 big strong men on the pitch for the next game and they are going to win some battles.
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