Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November

First topic message reminder :

In six days time Ireland will host South Africa in their first test of the November tours. South Africa will have to lift themselves for this one as the standard under Meyer has ben exemplary in Europe, he is yet to lose a test match and the Six Nations champions gets first shot at breaking Meyer's unbeaten streak over the Six Nations teams.

It seems both teams are effected by injuries so their depth will be severely tested.

South African players unavailable due to injury.

Props - Marcel v d Merwe, Frans Malherbe
Hooker - Schalk Brits, Callie Visagie
Locks - Pieter Steph du Toit, Flip v d Merwe
Back Row - Frans Louw, Willem Alberts, Siya Kolisi, Arno Botha
Halfback - Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar (Pending a fitness test)
Midfield - Jaque Fourie

Irish players unavailable due to injury.
Props - Healy, Moore, Ross (Questionable)
Hooker - Cronin, Best (questionable)
Locks - Tuohy, Ryan
Back Row - Henderson, Murphy, O'Brien
Halfback -
Flyhalf - Sexton (Questionable)
Midfield - Darcy (questionable)
Back Three - Kearney, Earls, Trimble, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Bowe (questionable)

Ireland has been rather successful against South Africa in the last decade, managing wins in 2004, 2006 and 2009.

South Africa 31 - 17 Ireland
South Africa 26 - 17 Ireland
Ireland 17 - 12 South Africa
Ireland 32 - 15 South Africa
Ireland 15 - 10 South Africa
Ireland 21 - 23 South Africa
Ireland 12 - 16 South Africa

Likely matchday 23 for South Africa.

1. Tendai Mtwarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Jannie du PLessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Victor Matfield
6. Marcell Coetzee
7. Oupa Mohoje
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Handre Pollard
11. Brya Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jan Serfontein
14. Cornal Hendricks
15. Willie le Roux.

Subs
16. Coenie Oosthuizen
17. Adriaan Strauss
18. Julian Redelinghuys
19. Bakkies Botha
20. Schalk Burger
21. Cobus Reinach
22. Johan Goosen
23. Patrick Lambie/Damien de Allende

Likely Irish matchday 23. (Help please)

Ireland will be keen to beat the Springboks, even though they are unlikely to meet them in earlier rounds of the RWC it will give them validation and confidence for the Rugby World Cup. Under their new coach I expect them to throw the ball around and attempt to run the SPringboks off their feet, Ireland is also more used to the conditions and could use that to their advantage, I suspect the territorial game will be part of their plans.

It is easier sad than done though, the only team in recent years that managed to run the Springboks off their feet was New Zealand, and that was at altitude. South Africa these days play more adventurous rugby and at a great pace as well, newcomer Handre POllard will be on his first trip to Europe, so it might take him a while to adapt, but once on song he will be the danger man, South Africa attacks a lot flatter without Morne Steyn which does provide more hesitation in opposition defences and creates more space for their outside backs.

One issue with South Africa this season has been their inconsistency in performances, and they will have to be on song from the start.

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has warned his team they will need to be at their best if they are to keep their unbeaten record under his management in the northern hemisphere intact.

Meyer singled out the team’s first fixture against Ireland as a crucial one to kick off the team’s four week tour, and one which is the most tricky of all their fixtures.

The Boks know they cannot focus on the Twickenham showdown before getting past the tricky Irish, who have been a team that has plagued them at this time of year under previous coaches.

The Boks will know all too well how a poor opening performance can set the trend for the tour, and with chances to experiment getting less and less ahead of the World Cup, it is imperative that the team kick off the tour on a high note.

“We have a proud record and we haven’t lost a game there. But we have a proud record and this is probably the toughest tour we have faced to the Northern Hemisphere. I truly believe Ireland is an unbelievable team, they were unlucky not to beat the All Blacks last year.

“They’ve got a great coaching staff, a lot of in-form players and their defence is great. They’ve got a good kicking game in those conditions."

That's it boys, enjoy the discussion.

fa0019 wrote:I like the fact that Irish fans aren't happy with the result.

In the end its a great victory but its like England beating NZ at Twickenham in 2012... is there room for improvement, of course. Should they sit back and say well, we've beaten one of the giants of the game, lets not mess with the side or constructively breakdown the performance??? certainly not.

If a guy played bad, he played bad... do you think NZ don't criticise their players in victory. They always do, they strive for excellence.

I like the attitude.

We're not bickering because we have high standards, we're bickering because we (thankfully only the fans) can still find it all too easy to divide along provincial lines.

Submachine wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:We might have won but there is clearly a lot to work on. Conceding a soft try towards the end was poor. Some of Sexton's touch finders werent great and I not sure we will be able to rely on the trickery of JSs game plan all the time. We will need some magic ad libbing and there wasnt much of note. The scrum and lineout also need to improve.

This kind of analysis always vexes me. A lot to work on? They work on everything all the time. Tactics, techniques, law interpretation they are always evolving.
It was a soft try but the game was won and we had a makeshift backline at that point.
Did Sexton miss any touch kicks? He didn't get great distance on one and was nursing cramp at the time. It's also a funny shaped ball and apt to do it's own thing occasionally.
In my opinion no other coach can prepare for the opposition as well as JS. There is no trickery involved just analysis, an awareness of our own strengths and limitations and the best possible strategy to win any game on any given day. Didn't quite come off against England last year but the gameplan was spot on. JS doesn't do ad Libbing. When space and opportunity present themselves we have the players to exploit it whilst playing within the gameplan. We had a couple of great line breaks by Kearney and Sexton and I think both led to scores.
Scrum and lineout can always be improved but it's not as if we were playing against some second string club side. You can't expect to have a perfect game against South Africa or any international side. Georgia will have 15 big strong men on the pitch for the next game and they are going to win some battles.

Exactly so why not discuss what needs to be worked on? Just because we won doesnt mean we should just sit back and be happy as good as it feels. That seems to be what SA did after they beat NZ and look where that got them.

I love the description of schmidt by Neil Francis "He may have the air of a headmaster but with the conscience of a rattlesnake his team was a personification of their head coach's mindset". It this sort of mindset that never allows Schmit be satisfied with wins. Thankfully so.

SecretFly wrote:Pete, your lads didn't win nothing.  They were carried by our lads.  They had an armchair ride.  The were spectators.  They had the best seats in the house.  They got in for free.  They won the raffle.  They shirked their responsibility!  They were flat.  Their form wasn't up to the standards.  They choaked under the limelight!

Now admit it.... and be damned!

I love your lads, the way they can carry our lads like that but they carry them badly, if our lads were carrying your lads our lads would do a far better job of carrying.....

Seriously though I have severe man-love for Johnny Sexton, Conor Murray, Robbie Henshaw and our very own Tommy Bowe. All together standing tall
P.S. I like Chilli a lot as well.....Robnoxious Karndasian

GunsGerms wrote:We might have won but there is clearly a lot to work on. Conceding a soft try towards the end was poor. Some of Sexton's touch finders werent great and I not sure we will be able to rely on the trickery of JSs game plan all the time. We will need some magic ad libbing and there wasnt much of note. The scrum and lineout also need to improve.

Yea, bringing on Owen Reddan for Jared Payne just before conceeding would have caused a bit of disruption. I would not worry too much about that try.

On Sexton and his kicking.......................................... (conversions/penalties)

Do we have a French speaking lad called Ronan to thank for sprucing it up?   It certainly looks a lot more assured and less anxious than I've seen him do for quite some time for Ireland.  
The value of him kicking these points is immense.  I hope that comfort-look he had at all times continues now indefinitely.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:We might have won but there is clearly a lot to work on. Conceding a soft try towards the end was poor. Some of Sexton's touch finders werent great and I not sure we will be able to rely on the trickery of JSs game plan all the time. We will need some magic ad libbing and there wasnt much of note. The scrum and lineout also need to improve.

Yea, bringing on Owen Reddan for Jared Payne just before conceeding would have caused a bit of disruption. I would not worry too much about that try.

Sexton was superb but agree some of his touchfinders especially in second half weren't that long. One thing in general has always baffled me about kicking to touch. When you're kicking to the right hand touchline why not use a left-footed kicker to curl the ball into the touchline - in Kearney and Zebo we have two guys with big left boots. Always remember Denis Hickey taking left footed touch kicks for both Leinster and Ireland and he usually kicked long.

It's the assumption that any team can play a perfect game that I'm not comfortable with. There will always be mistakes, opposition lineout steals, scrum penalties, knock ons etc. You can't have a perfect game against any opposition.
As Joe said before the game, he is a realist. There will always be things to work on but the work that has already been done is clear to see. It's not the technical side of it for me thats an issue. We have shown many times that "on our day" we can compete with anyone. It's trying to improve the consistency of delivering those performances which should get most attention in my view. I think this is where Joe and Plumbtree last year have had the biggest effect. We followed up a huge (although ultimately losing) performance against england last year with a big win against Italy and a championship winning performance AWAY in France.
There was also every chance of losing one of the tests in Argentina in the Summer but we ground out the wins.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:We might have won but there is clearly a lot to work on. Conceding a soft try towards the end was poor. Some of Sexton's touch finders werent great and I not sure we will be able to rely on the trickery of JSs game plan all the time. We will need some magic ad libbing and there wasnt much of note. The scrum and lineout also need to improve.

Yea, bringing on Owen Reddan for Jared Payne just before conceeding would have caused a bit of disruption. I would not worry too much about that try.

Sexton was superb but agree some of his touchfinders especially in second half weren't that long. One thing in general has always baffled me about kicking to touch. When you're kicking to the right hand touchline why not use a left-footed kicker to curl the ball into the touchline - in Kearney and Zebo we have two guys with big left boots. Always remember Denis Hickey taking left footed touch kicks for both Leinster and Ireland and he usually kicked long.

Two attempts at a tip tacle will not be tolerated brennomac!

Next repeat offence is a red for you.

SecretFly wrote:On Sexton and his kicking.......................................... (conversions/penalties)

Do we have a French speaking lad called Ronan to thank for sprucing it up?   It certainly looks a lot more assured and less anxious than I've seen him do for quite some time for Ireland.  
The value of him kicking these points is immense.  I hope that comfort-look he had at all times continues now indefinitely.

ROG was saying a while back that he hopes to be involved in the coaching set-up for the 6Ns with Ireland.

Rog would say that. He will probably try to get selected at 10 for the world cup too.

I hope he is too, sin.  But I think he's already helping from his remote vantage point.  "Ok, Sexton, ya bastard.  I've been holding back on a few tricks of my trade because I was at war with you for quite a while.  But now that we're pals and all.....................  come close and listen to me few tips on how to kick with a tad more certainty."

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:We might have won but there is clearly a lot to work on. Conceding a soft try towards the end was poor. Some of Sexton's touch finders werent great and I not sure we will be able to rely on the trickery of JSs game plan all the time. We will need some magic ad libbing and there wasnt much of note. The scrum and lineout also need to improve.

Yea, bringing on Owen Reddan for Jared Payne just before conceeding would have caused a bit of disruption. I would not worry too much about that try.

Didnt help alright. Zebo was in no mans land for that try though and it was his man that got in for the score so as I said before he was at least partially to blame. They will be looking at the tapes on that one for sure.

This was a great win, we all realise that, but the wildest thing, even before the Bowe try, I didnt have the heart in mouth anxiety that we would throw it away like we tend to.. We had the confidence to see it through and we did...

Though I am also furious that we let in that last try. Reddan at 13 or not, its unacceptable to miss out on moving up to 3 in the rankings and generating a record beating margin over the Second best team in the world. In terms of everything, the players 1-23 get a solid B, the set pieces and last try moving them down. Joe, a B+, the timing of some of the substitutions being the main reason he misses out on a perfect score. I am applying grades based on Joe's massive standards. There is more from both players and coaches with these group of players. A Georgia win with proper flair and a equally controlled and passionate game against Australia and we are definitely moved to a new level.

Yeah it was interesting that POC pointed to the sticks for Madigan's penalty. I remember at the time wondering why he didnt just have a pop and go down the line as at that point we had nothing to lose. Then I realised POC wanted the record score and that was the right call. He doesnt miss stuff like that ever.

If we cap a few new guys and beat Georgia by more than a score Ill be happy. Dont really care if we hammer Georgia as long as the game serves its purpose in evidencing that we can put out a second string team during the WC group stages and still produce a solid win when required.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:We might have won but there is clearly a lot to work on. Conceding a soft try towards the end was poor. Some of Sexton's touch finders werent great and I not sure we will be able to rely on the trickery of JSs game plan all the time. We will need some magic ad libbing and there wasnt much of note. The scrum and lineout also need to improve.

Yea, bringing on Owen Reddan for Jared Payne just before conceeding would have caused a bit of disruption. I would not worry too much about that try.

Didnt help alright. Zebo was in no mans land for that try though and it was his man that got in for the score so as I said before he was at least partially to blame. They will be looking at the tapes on that one for sure.

The linebreak was made between the 12 & 13 channel which was not properly defended (Reddan didn't know what to do). There were 2 outside Zebo which should have not been the case, but as you say, Reddan is a SH trying to defend in the most difficult back position.

Zebo chose to move up and mark the forward rather than the winger Pieterson. Bad move. Yes the break was made in the midfield but said break caught Zebo in no mans land.

Hopefully as this team progresses Schmidt will integrate some more moves that will utilise Zebo's pace and attacking threat and give him a chance to finish off some moves.

ok we get the idea. move on

Yeah can we give the Zebo talk a bleedin rest, becoming boring and tiresome. Move on, Georgia calling next Sunday and then the convicts a week later.

Just to clear up the confusion on why Poite gave the yellow to Strauss:

Poite:"He was late and deliberately hit the player in the air. Cos this is the 2nd tackle in the air and a high tackle on [number]8, I will sin bin the player."

Jaysus I never considered Murray as a future captain but I'd be for it when POC's gone. It would be him, POM or Sexton for me. I think a flyhalf has enough on his plate. And I'd have doubts about POM's ability to lead by example against the best teams, simply because of his lack of power. Just my opinion Munster fans and I know feic all, never played rugby, so don't get too angry with me on that statement. Murray is just pure class and oozes composure under pressure. Is there a better scrum half in the world right now? He'd always be close to the action and the ref too.

brennomac wrote:Move on, Georgia calling next Sunday and then the convicts a week later.

A lot of the convict were Irish I'd say so we can't slag them to much about that.

The driving bastard of that Irish team is snivelin' Johnny.  
He said recently that both his mother and his wife keep telling him to be less intense and driven and more happy.  But he says he can't do it.

That's the Captain in waiting in all but name.  And if he doesn't get the name, he still doesn't have the temperament to be anything less than one on the field.  So God help Murray if he directs Sexton anywhere he doesn't want to go.

GunsGerms wrote:Zebo chose to move up and mark the forward rather than the winger Pieterson. Bad move. Yes the break was made in the midfield but said break caught Zebo in no mans land.

Hopefully as this team progresses Schmidt will integrate some more moves that will utilise Zebo's pace and attacking threat and give him a chance to finish off some moves.

Zebo could not tackle a man without the ball. The fault was in midfield.

SecretFly wrote:The driving bastard of that Irish team is snivelin' Johnny.  
He said recently that both his mother and his wife keep telling him to be less intense and driven and more happy.  But he says he can't do it.

That's the Captain in waiting in all but name.  And if he doesn't get the name, he still doesn't have the temperament to be anything less than one on the field.  So God help Murray if he directs Sexton anywhere he doesn't want to go.

Nope. Peter O'Mahony will be the next captain - described by a former Leinster coach in newspapers at the weekend as the spiritual leader of this team.

Peter O'Mahony is our ................  oh what was that guy's name in Band of Brothers?  He wasn't in it that much... but he was the mystery guy, the guy everyone gravitated to because he had the air of a guy who couldn't be killed.  In war there were real guys like that, guys who had the scent of immortality about them that fearful soldiers levitated towards for comfort.

O'Mahony is becoming him but I don't think he needs to be general. Those self-contained guys don't need 'Leadership' - I'd rate O'Driscoll as another. Never the greatest Captain personality, a guy who led by example.  

Sexton is the general - command comes naturally to him both in his position as instigator and in his personality.

I don't genuinely care who gets it eventually but there is still a theory on who is best in the role and what the role is that keeps me interested in the topic when it crops up

Brennus wrote:Just to clear up the confusion on why Poite gave the yellow to Strauss:

Poite:"He was late and deliberately hit the player in the air. Cos this is the 2nd tackle in the air and a high tackle on [number]8, I will sin bin the player."

the first tackle in the air was by kearney in the 5th minute. and the high tackle was vermeulen not strauss.

so where was the warning and how did strauss get implicated?

utterly ridiculous decision by Pointe. every sensible poster agrees.  kearney would have fallen over anyway.

cumulative...................... Poite has spoken! Those who refuse to listen to the Headmaster get a caning across bare arse in front of class. Poite runs a tight boarding school. Military precision. Swift justice when he gets round to wanting to be swift...which can take time.

SecretFly wrote:Peter O'Mahony is our ................  oh what was that guy's name in Band of Brothers?  He wasn't in it that much... but he was the mystery guy, the guy everyone gravitated to because he had the air of a guy who couldn't be killed.  In war there were real guys like that, guys who had the scent of immortality about them that fearful soldiers levitated towards for comfort.

O'Mahony is becoming him but I don't think he needs to be general.  Those self-contained guys don't need 'Leadership' - I'd rate O'Driscoll as another.  Never the greatest Captain personality, a guy who led by example.  

Sexton is the general - command comes naturally to him both in his position as instigator and in his personality.

I don't genuinely care who gets it eventually but there is still a theory on who is best in the role and what the role is that keeps me interested in the topic when it crops up

Just so you know, POM has captained every team he has ever played on. He is a natural leader.

poite is a school teacher. at least thats how he comes across.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Peter O'Mahony is our ................  oh what was that guy's name in Band of Brothers?  He wasn't in it that much... but he was the mystery guy, the guy everyone gravitated to because he had the air of a guy who couldn't be killed.  In war there were real guys like that, guys who had the scent of immortality about them that fearful soldiers levitated towards for comfort.

O'Mahony is becoming him but I don't think he needs to be general.  Those self-contained guys don't need 'Leadership' - I'd rate O'Driscoll as another.  Never the greatest Captain personality, a guy who led by example.  

Sexton is the general - command comes naturally to him both in his position as instigator and in his personality.

I don't genuinely care who gets it eventually but there is still a theory on who is best in the role and what the role is that keeps me interested in the topic when it crops up

Just so you know, POM has captained every team he has ever played on. He is a natural leader.

he is exactly like Martin Johnson.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Peter O'Mahony is our ................  oh what was that guy's name in Band of Brothers?  He wasn't in it that much... but he was the mystery guy, the guy everyone gravitated to because he had the air of a guy who couldn't be killed.  In war there were real guys like that, guys who had the scent of immortality about them that fearful soldiers levitated towards for comfort.

O'Mahony is becoming him but I don't think he needs to be general.  Those self-contained guys don't need 'Leadership' - I'd rate O'Driscoll as another.  Never the greatest Captain personality, a guy who led by example.  

Sexton is the general - command comes naturally to him both in his position as instigator and in his personality.

I don't genuinely care who gets it eventually but there is still a theory on who is best in the role and what the role is that keeps me interested in the topic when it crops up

Just so you know, POM has captained every team he has ever played on. He is a natural leader.

Don't doubt it...but the impression is you doubt Sexton at the same job and I don't. He does it already. I keep saying you don't need a title.

With all the talk of arrogance from the media and South African fans, ironically I think they're the ones being arrogant. The paddies should be cannon fodder. Shur they've never beaten NZ!

FecklessRogue wrote:Jaysus I never considered Murray as a future captain but I'd be for it when POC's gone. It would be him, POM or Sexton for me. I think a flyhalf has enough on his plate. And I'd have doubts about POM's ability to lead by example against the best teams, simply because of his lack of power. Just my opinion Munster fans and I know feic all, never played rugby, so don't get too angry with me on that statement. Murray is just pure class and oozes composure under pressure. Is there a better scrum half in the world right now? He'd always be close to the action and the ref too.

POM doesn't lack power. In fact its the opposite! He is an expert at the deadlift apparently and that strength allows him to be so good at the breakdown. Also, his tackle stats are not always that high because he is stuck in rucks and thats physically more demanding than making tackles.

Btw, I think the start against SA was only his 3rd or 4th start since getting injured in march so he'll get better as the season goes on.

It was harsh on him because he took a team yellow for a series of fouls. But it was a dumb foul.

Quins it's interesting that you think a yellow for a deliberate (if tame) foul in the air is utterly ridiculous. You were quite adamant that Payne deserved a red for Ulster regardless of intent (every sensible poster agreed he was definitely looking at the ball, unlike Strauss), because it was his responsibility to ensure the Saracens player went to ground safely and the fact that he didn't (since the Saracens player hit him in the face) was dangerous play. At least I think that was you. What's changed your opinion on collisions in the air?

profitius wrote:With all the talk of arrogance from the media and South African fans, ironically I think they're the ones being arrogant.

Who is 'they', profitius?

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Peter O'Mahony is our ................  oh what was that guy's name in Band of Brothers?  He wasn't in it that much... but he was the mystery guy, the guy everyone gravitated to because he had the air of a guy who couldn't be killed.  In war there were real guys like that, guys who had the scent of immortality about them that fearful soldiers levitated towards for comfort.

O'Mahony is becoming him but I don't think he needs to be general.  Those self-contained guys don't need 'Leadership' - I'd rate O'Driscoll as another.  Never the greatest Captain personality, a guy who led by example.  

Sexton is the general - command comes naturally to him both in his position as instigator and in his personality.

I don't genuinely care who gets it eventually but there is still a theory on who is best in the role and what the role is that keeps me interested in the topic when it crops up

Just so you know, POM has captained every team he has ever played on. He is a natural leader.

Don't doubt it...but the impression is you doubt Sexton at the same job and I don't.  He does it already.  I keep saying you don't need a title.

I'd say Sexton has the the ability to really urine people off as much as he has the ability to be a 'general'. BOD said that he spent a lot of time apologising. Sexton isn't a natural leader and seems to be always losing the plot with people on the pitch and seems to spend a lot of his time apologising!

okay................. you still don't like him, Sin.  We'll move on................   as O'Gara did.  Incidently, O'Gara had a personality pretty damn close to Sexton's in pi-ss-ing people off.  That's why they didn't get along - so so similar.

Someone else other than POC should be Captain when POC retires from the role.  We'll leave it there

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Peter O'Mahony is our ................  oh what was that guy's name in Band of Brothers?  He wasn't in it that much... but he was the mystery guy, the guy everyone gravitated to because he had the air of a guy who couldn't be killed.  In war there were real guys like that, guys who had the scent of immortality about them that fearful soldiers levitated towards for comfort.

O'Mahony is becoming him but I don't think he needs to be general.  Those self-contained guys don't need 'Leadership' - I'd rate O'Driscoll as another.  Never the greatest Captain personality, a guy who led by example.  

Sexton is the general - command comes naturally to him both in his position as instigator and in his personality.

I don't genuinely care who gets it eventually but there is still a theory on who is best in the role and what the role is that keeps me interested in the topic when it crops up

Just so you know, POM has captained every team he has ever played on. He is a natural leader.

Don't doubt it...but the impression is you doubt Sexton at the same job and I don't.  He does it already.  I keep saying you don't need a title.

I'd say Sexton has the the ability to really urine people off as much as he has the ability to be a 'general'. BOD said that he spent a lot of time apologising. Sexton isn't a natural leader and seems to be always losing the plot with people on the pitch and seems to spend a lot of his time apologising!

Sounds a lot like Roy Keane.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Sounds a lot like Roy Keane.

Now that's the ticket! Just like Keane. A Natural Leader that nobody seemed to get on with but everyone followed into battle because to follow him was... natural.

SecretFly wrote:

profitius wrote:With all the talk of arrogance from the media and South African fans, ironically I think they're the ones being arrogant.

Who is 'they', profitius?

The media and SA fans (not all fans). Irish and SA media. Its easier to blame the boks for being arrogant than admit they (the media) got it badly wrong. The Irish media in particular should have known better.

POM went down in my estimation with his decision to kick the ball straight to Pieterson/Hendricks (?) when Ireland were on the attack. There is really no excuse for any forward to kick away possession in attack, and only as a last resort in defence. I doubt if POM the playmaker was in Schmidt's script and not really the way to convince Joe of his captaincy credentials.

Pom did make another try saving tackle though on leRoux I think it was.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Peter O'Mahony is our ................  oh what was that guy's name in Band of Brothers?  He wasn't in it that much... but he was the mystery guy, the guy everyone gravitated to because he had the air of a guy who couldn't be killed.  In war there were real guys like that, guys who had the scent of immortality about them that fearful soldiers levitated towards for comfort.

O'Mahony is becoming him but I don't think he needs to be general.  Those self-contained guys don't need 'Leadership' - I'd rate O'Driscoll as another.  Never the greatest Captain personality, a guy who led by example.  

Sexton is the general - command comes naturally to him both in his position as instigator and in his personality.

I don't genuinely care who gets it eventually but there is still a theory on who is best in the role and what the role is that keeps me interested in the topic when it crops up

Just so you know, POM has captained every team he has ever played on. He is a natural leader.

We know. Hes wonderful.

So who of the injured players are expected back for next week? Best?, Olding?, Darcy?

Any word on Payne?

I would have no objection to Sexton being made captain but for me, I would choose POM.

Captained every team he has played for at every level (Bar Ireland) and is a proper leader. Many players, past and present, have nothing but compliments for the way he leads. The guy is just a natural leader.

On Sexton, I see the same. The guy is a perfectionist and expects those around him to be the same (nothing wrong with that). Sexton as a ten, pivotal position, is one of the main people that co-ordinate attacks so has a massive influence on the game.

Ireland can just be thankful that they have two excellent players who, in my mind, would be more than capable of doing the job. Happy days.

Doesn't really matter who is captain. What matters is having many leaders on the pitch and we've a good group of leaders

Haven't heard anything about injuries. Do ye think Henshaw/Payne is a keeper in terms of the year ahead? They did well but were they really tested? I wouldn't mind seeing Madigan/Henshaw against Australia.

Maybe I'm wrong about POM and power. I just thought he was anonymous against England, and put it down to him being outmuscled. Both POM and Sexton are a bit tempremental. Is no one with me on Murray?

profitius wrote:Doesn't really matter who is captain. What matters is having many leaders on the pitch and we've a good group of leaders

AMEN to that.

FecklessRogue wrote:Haven't heard anything about injuries. Do ye think Henshaw/Payne is a keeper in terms of the year ahead? They did well but were they really tested? I wouldn't mind seeing Madigan/Henshaw against Australia.

Maybe I'm wrong about POM and power. I just thought he was anonymous against England, and put it down to him being outmuscled. Both POM and Sexton are a bit tempremental. Is no one with me on Murray?

Saw very little of either Payne or Henshaw in attack, but I imagine that was part of the plan. It was a closed shop for the Boks in our centre channel...were they tested? Well Serfontaine was possibly their best player and he was opposite them. I think against Australia we need to see them in attack though.

Quins it's interesting that you think a yellow for a deliberate (if tame) foul in the air is utterly ridiculous

Didn't know it was that easy to distinguish deliberate foul play. Believe you me, when a South African does something deliberate it doesn't look like that.

FecklessRogue wrote:Haven't heard anything about injuries. Do ye think Henshaw/Payne is a keeper in terms of the year ahead? They did well but were they really tested? I wouldn't mind seeing Madigan/Henshaw against Australia.

Maybe I'm wrong about POM and power. I just thought he was anonymous against England, and put it down to him being outmuscled. Both POM and Sexton are a bit tempremental. Is no one with me on Murray?

Id be really interested to see Henshaw outside Olding against Georgia, but if Schmidts thinking of Darcy against Australia hell need some game time.