Froch - Time to Crap or Get off the Pot

Will preface this by saying that there is probably not another modern fighter I admire more than Carl Froch. Tends to always want to fight the best and is normally good to watch in his fights. With that out of the way I have to be a little critical of his behaviour of late in respect to James Degale.

As we all know when Degale fought and won on the big Wembley show he became mandatory challenger for Froch's IBF title. As such, in as much as anybody earns a shot nowadays James has done that. It is my contention Froch should either give Degale the title shot he has earned or vacate the belt. I fully understand where Froch is in his career. He wants one big swansong in Vegas before he rides off into his well deserved retirement. Degale will not provide him with this, it would inevitably and rightly be in the UK.

Given all this surely the fair thing to do is to vacate the IBF belt and give a young fighter the chance he has earned. Froch knows as well as anybody how frustrating it is chasing an established champion with his eyes set on bigger things. He would do well to remember Calzaghe vacated his WBC belt pretty quickly after Carl became his mandatory, which gave Carl the chance to get the ball rolling on his title days. My own view is it is time for Carl to do the same. Am all for a fighter keeping his options open but when this is at the expense of another fighter have to say it sticks in my craw a bit. Would have far more admiration for Carl if he was to make up his mind one way or the other, and sooner rather than later.

Agree, Jeff. Problem is, have the IBF actually issued Froch a deadline yet (will admit I've not been following the situation as closely as others)? He fought two mandatory defences back to back against Groves, and as Froch has said, in theory that should allow him a voluntary defence now - so unfortunately for Degale, he might just have to play the waiting game for a little longer.

Froch himself said the other night on TalkSport, "I don't need the IBF title for the Chavez fight to be big." That's probably true, but at the same time if somehow a deal with Chavez could be worked out, I suspect Froch will want as many bargaining tools as he can in order to get purse parity with Julio Jr, and a major belt helps in that respect, particularly when you're fighting a guy who hasn't got one.

If the IBF are still keeping with the old mandatory-voluntary-mandatory-voluntary etc system and haven't given Froch a date to accommodate Degale by, then by the letter of the law he's doing nothing wrong, I guess - but like you, it grates a little bit that he seems to be on a bit of a power trip and seems to be enjoying telling everyone how he won't be fighting Degale because he's a no-name, isn't proven etc while holding on to the belt.

I think we're all getting a bit bored of the "talks and negotiations" that are supposedly going on with Chavez Jr, and if Carl's being a straight shooter in saying that nobody other than Chavez will do, then I agree it's time to make a decision and make it pretty quickly.

Carl stated on talksport the other night the type of fighter he wants to see out his career with.

For Carl its all about the style of opponant. He mentioned his admiration for Kessler who, as he put it, ''would stand in front of you and fight''.

Clearly Degale is not going to do that so that fight is dead and buried if you ask me. He wants Chavez because of Vagas and because Chavez is no slick African American is he?

Carl is haunted by the Dirrel fight. Chasing a man around the ring for 12 rounds is not his cup of tea. Froch knows his limitations and can only fight 1 way which is why if he does not get the Chavez fight look foreard to Froch v Kessler 3.

And Ward is off the menu for much of the same reasons.

I think Degale would beat Froch.

I'm not surprised Froch does not want the fight as he had enough problems with the Groves fights, even though he done the job in the end.

That being said he has paid his dues and not turned down many fights so he has the right to pick a fight and retire, Although if he does not want to fight Degale then he should just drop the belt and not mess about, If he does not want to fight Degale, which he says he does not, then why has he not dropped the BF belt yet?

Does beating one top twenty-ranked super middleweight deserve a fight with the second best fighter in the division? That's what we're dealing with here.

The IBF would prefer to associate themselves with Froch - he generates far more income for them in sanctioning fees. Froch would prefer to associate himself with Chavez as he provides PPV revenue in the States. The IBF know that hassling Froch will likely result in a relinquished belt and a dramatic drop in income.

I think the whole concept of fighters "earning" title shots these days is a misnomer. DeGale may have jumped through a couple of alphabet hoops but he still hasn't defeated a (genuine) top ten-ranked opponent. In that regard I'm quite happy he hasn't been afforded the chance to call himself a "world champion".

Why should Froch hand his title to DeGale (other than the savings he'll make in not forking out for ABC fees)?

If DeGale wants to "earn" a chance to climb the ratings (to get to Froch) he should fight one of the men above him:

Arthur Abraham
Robert Stieglitz
Anthony Dirrell
George Groves

According to the TBRB Gonzalez was a top ten fighter.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:According to the TBRB Gonzalez was a top ten fighter.

Well that's surprising but hold my hands up there if that is the case. The point remains, though, he's earned nothing but a top ten berth. A couple more wins over top ten opposition would legitimately push his claims.

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:According to the TBRB Gonzalez was a top ten fighter.

Well that's surprising but hold my hands up there if that is the case. The point remains, though, he's earned nothing but a top ten berth. A couple more wins over top ten opposition would legitimately push his claims.

This is funny in light of the fact that Lomachenko can earn a title shot in his second pro fight haha!

Whether Degale has done enough in your mind to earn a shot is a side issue Haz. The reality is in beating Gonzales the IBF have said he is entitled to a shot at Froch. Nothing else matters, the rights or wrongs of them saying that are a largely nugatory debate. What is an absolute certainty is the IBF will have taken a sanctioning fee of James for the eliminator, if mandatories and eliminators are to mean anything they need to be enforced.

Fact is the guy has fought his mandatory and is allowed a voluntary.....Froch deserves to be IBF champion.  Degale like every other contender will have to wait his turn..

Don't recall anybody wanting Douglas stripped making Holy wait 10 months..Or to vacate......No one more deserving than him..

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:According to the TBRB Gonzalez was a top ten fighter.

Well that's surprising but hold my hands up there if that is the case. The point remains, though, he's earned nothing but a top ten berth. A couple more wins over top ten opposition would legitimately push his claims.

This is funny in light of the fact that Lomachenko can earn a title shot in his second pro fight haha!

And that Ramirez he fought in his debut was probably as highly ranked as anyone DeGale has fought.....

I'd be all for giving Froch some leeway if he hadn't be so vocal about the fact he was looking for a swansong. He may as well bin all the belts and let the remaining guys in the divisions fight for the right to be regarded as "top dog". He's like a kid who doesn't want to play football or let any of the other kids play football either.

'My ball, my rules'

I agree with Jeff. Time for Carl to either crap or get his mouth off the pot

DAVE667 wrote:I'd be all for giving Froch some leeway if he hadn't be so vocal about the fact he was looking for a swansong. He may as well bin all the belts and let the remaining guys in the divisions fight for the right to be regarded as "top dog". He's like a kid who doesn't want to play football or let any of the other kids play football either.

Not fought for 5 months............What a crime..

Brits love to bash their own..Don't they ??

Give the guy a break...............He's the best fighter to come from these shores in the last five years..

Hagler fought once in two years................Apr 85 - 87.................As Rowley well knows..........and then he cherry picked Leonard instead of mandatory Hearns who deserved the shot by beating the WBA/WBC number 1 Shuler...

But that's ok !!!

The OP is getting senile in his old age !!

I agree with Steffan, time for Froch to smoke pot or tell someone to stop crapping in his mouth

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:I'd be all for giving Froch some leeway if he hadn't be so vocal about the fact he was looking for a swansong. He may as well bin all the belts and let the remaining guys in the divisions fight for the right to be regarded as "top dog". He's like a kid who doesn't want to play football or let any of the other kids play football either.

Not fought for 5 months............What a crime..

Brits love to bash their own..Don't they ??

Give the guy a break...............He's the best fighter to come from these shores in the last five years..

Hagler fought once in two years................Apr 85 - 87.................As Rowley well knows..........and then he cherry picked Leonard instead of mandatory Hearns who deserved the shot by beating the WBA/WBC number 1 Shuler...

But that's ok !!!    

The OP is getting senile in his old age !!

Fact remains, Froch has said he's not interested in a stepping down a level to fight Degale and wants the BIG fights. He may as well relinquish the belts and let the next generation contest them. By not doing so, he's being a pr!ck by harming their earning potential. Not being a belt holder isn't going to decrease Froch's fanbase and it's not like he lost them in the ring is it? No-one disputes Froch's place in the SM rankings (a very definite 2nd to Ward) and he's no interest in trying to be the number one guy so why hold onto the belts?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

But that's ok !!!    

Yep, that's exactly what I said. You seem oddly obsessed by what I did or did not think about what Hagler was up to in 1985. I have told you before I was 12, if I had any opinion on his actions, and in reality I didn't I am not sure I should be forever judged by them given my age.

As for this situation I just feel if Froch has no intention of fighting Degale, and his current comments on it certainly suggest that is the case the decent thing to do would be to vacate and not leave Degale in limbo, particularly as someone who knows how frustrating that is.

Doesn't seem to bother TRUSS that Mayweather has retired from boxing as many times as Status Quo (or TRUSS has retired from the boards)

Personally its pretty clear Froch wants a rematch with Ward and I can understand why:

1) Ward may take the fight as it will be a good tuneup match before he faces GGG

2) Even though there is more chance of Trusscargo genuinely retiring from this forum than Froch winning this fight its a great pay day and he might get a Vegas swangsong 

3) He can go around saying I only lost to one fighter in my career and that was due to corrupt judging

Steffan wrote:Personally its pretty clear Froch wants a rematch with Ward and I can understand why:

1) Ward may take the fight as it will be a good tuneup match before he faces GGG

2) Even though there is more chance of Trusscargo genuinely retiring from this forum than Froch winning this fight its a great pay day and he might get a Vegas swangsong 

3) He can go around saying I only lost to one fighter in my career and that was due to corrupt judging

Stick to Rocky..

Rowley wrote:Whether Degale has done enough in your mind to earn a shot is a side issue Haz. The reality is in beating Gonzales the IBF have said he is entitled to a shot at Froch. Nothing else matters, the rights or wrongs of them saying that are a largely nugatory debate. What is an absolute certainty is the IBF will have taken a sanctioning fee of James for the eliminator, if mandatories and eliminators are to mean anything they need to be enforced.

You're giving the IBF far too much credit Rowley. Their system isn't based on merit - they're only interested in boosting their own coffers. This is a body who stripped Jamie McDonbell after Dennis Hobson complained to the BBBofC when McDonnell jumped ship. Hobson then paid over the odds for Hall vs Malinga and Hall vs Caballero (meaning inflated purses, which also meant inflated sanctioning fees).

Alphabet bodies are neither consistent, fair or logical (even compared to how they operated 20 years ago, which was sketchy but nowhere near as shocking as they do these days).

On the flip side, DeGale has only fought one IBF eliminator - they'll squeeze him for a few more before forcing Froch to do anything he doesn't want to.

On top of that, Froch only recently fulfilled his mandatory obligations - even by the alphabet bandits' f&£@ed up rule book, he doesn't need to fight another mandatory next.

If DeGale wants to be a champion then fight Ward. If he wants to face Froch then he should push his claims by beating someone ranked above him. If he merely wants an alphabet belt then just hang around - Hearn will buy him one once Froch retires.

It's also the body that allowed proven drugs cheat (Lamont Peterson) to keep his belt when other bodies disowned him.

That Chavez fight is so bogus. No rivalry, no opponents in common, different weight divisions.

Who seriously is sitting up thinking 'I'd love to see Froch and Chavez settle the score, see who the better man is?'.

It's just a convenience to appease Froch's Vegas pipe dream. I don't think anyone is as keen as Froch himself and he's got yes men blowing smoke up his hoop about the entire thing.

In his position, millions in the bank, great CV, young family, I'd be hanging the gloves up anyway. Go to Vegas on your stag do if you're desperate, Carl.

To be fair, it's a good old fashioned punch up (should Chavez bother making weight). That's if Chavez is allowed his usual leeway with regards stringent testing.

Chavez has signed a deal with Al Haymon and is being sued by Bob Arum.

If Froch wants a big fight in Vegas - have a look at Golovkin.

catchweight wrote:Chavez has signed a deal with Al Haymon and is being sued by Bob Arum.

If Froch wants a big fight in Vegas - have a look at Golovkin.

Hearn's worked with Schaefer before -can't see Haymon being a barrier.

Chavez might end up on the shelf a while during the legal issues.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Fact is the guy has fought his mandatory and is allowed a voluntary.....Froch deserves to be IBF champion.  Degale like every other contender will have to wait his turn..

Don't recall anybody wanting Douglas stripped making Holy wait 10 months..Or to vacate......No one more deserving than him..

He does also have a dead line, and if Degale wins his next fight Froch is going to have to fight him or drop the IBF belt which Degale will then fight for the vacant title against the next in line.

Degale deserves his shot, he has fought decent Euro opposition for a while now, been Euro and Silver champ, and disposed of a top 10 good prospect in good fashion in his last fight, Should he win his next fight then he most certainly will be perfectly in his rights to demand that title shot..

hazharrison wrote:

Rowley wrote:Whether Degale has done enough in your mind to earn a shot is a side issue Haz. The reality is in beating Gonzales the IBF have said he is entitled to a shot at Froch. Nothing else matters, the rights or wrongs of them saying that are a largely nugatory debate. What is an absolute certainty is the IBF will have taken a sanctioning fee of James for the eliminator, if mandatories and eliminators are to mean anything they need to be enforced.

On the flip side, DeGale has only fought one IBF eliminator - they'll squeeze him for a few more before forcing Froch to do anything he doesn't want to.

Not how it works, Froch does have an option to have a voluntary defense.. But while he has the strap he also has a dead line to offer Degale a fight. I think it was January or something, so he has left it to late to have a voluntary and not drop the belt, So the bottom line is if he fights anyone else now, he has to drop the IBF belt and if Degale wins his next fight he will be first in place for the vacant belt...

You do realise the IBF have already officially told Froch he must sign a fight with Degale or get stripped? Degale's next fight will be for the IBF Title. (Providing he beats Periban) I think either by Dec 31st or Jan 31st Froch is stripped if he doesn't agree to fight Degale. (Can't remember which date off the top of my head)

Again, you're presuming the IBF will enforce this supposed threat. I don't believe they'll strip Froch to enforce a DeGale fight. They were quite happy to force a Groves fight due to the amount of cash on the table.

Naive to imagine they'll even follow their own rules - it would have to be in their interest.

Stuart Hall was permitted two voluntary defences of his IBF title - why would Froch not be afforded the same? They make it up as they go.

Who knows what the ibf will do? But i suspect the reason the degale fight has been pushed hard by them is down to hearn behind the scene. He wants the degale fight more than chavez and has hoped the ibf leaning on froch will help it happen. Similar to the groves rematch which hearn obviously wanted and froch didnt.

I heard on Ringside a few weeks ago, IBF president said DeGale has to fight for the IBF title by February. Froch would receive the mandatory form by mid December. Again the IBF aren't big on rules so they might still leave DeGale waiting

Froch can guarantee the IBF a much bigger sanction fee....

tunes666 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Fact is the guy has fought his mandatory and is allowed a voluntary.....Froch deserves to be IBF champion.  Degale like every other contender will have to wait his turn..

Don't recall anybody wanting Douglas stripped making Holy wait 10 months..Or to vacate......No one more deserving than him..

He does also have a dead line, and if Degale wins his next fight Froch is going to have to fight him or drop the IBF belt which Degale will then fight for the vacant title against the next in line.

Degale deserves his shot, he has fought decent Euro opposition for a while now, been Euro and Silver champ, and disposed of a top 10 good prospect in good fashion in his last fight, Should he win his next fight then he most certainly will be perfectly in his rights to demand that title shot..

How does fighting a bunch or Euro level fighters equal deserving a world title shot? Fight world level contenders to prove your on that level first. DeGold has only done that once - and he lost.

I read a sample of the Froch autobiography the other night, it really is poor, his ghost writer must have really been dead because it is frightful.

I imagine Nicholson's character out of The Shining wrote it.......

I bet every page has....

'All work and no play make this "4 time World champion" a dull boy...

Written a 100 times on it..

Haha! Let me furnish you with an excerpt;

(Talking about his performance against Abraham)

"As I watched the video of the night in Helsinki when I regained my World Title and won every round against one of the legends of the ring, I started to reflect...

TV commentators raved about my display and the newspapers and radio talked about it as a great fight, it made me feel super proud."

It'll soon be time for Rowley to revise his list of boxing biographies and proclaim 'No Ordinary Joe' as "No longer the worst book I've read"

To be fair to Carl - It is an autobiography. In his own words (which we subsequent polished by a ghost writer). I can't imagine a book written by him honestly would sound anything other than delusional.

To honest, if it's got glossy pics of his other half in her lingerie for people to look at, it'll be better than reading the f*cking thing

DAVE667 wrote:It'll soon be time for Rowley to revise his list of boxing biographies and proclaim 'No Ordinary Joe' as "No longer the worst book I've read"

No Ordinary Joe still pips it Dave. Although Froch's is unlikely to win any literary awards any time soon.

22-2 wrote:I read a sample of the Froch autobiography the other night, it really is poor, his ghost writer must have really been dead because it is frightful.

I like the bit where he details his hobbies as a young man: lining up Kinder Egg toys on his window sill.

Wow.

Aww f*ck it, this sound too good NOT to buy

What is the title of this materpiece 'im a warrior and better then calzaghe' by any chance?

You can have my copy - just send me the postage.

wheelchair1991 wrote:What is the title of this materpiece 'im a warrior and better then calzaghe' by any chance?

It's called: "I'm not making any excuses but...."

If it has a picture of his missus on the front it should be called "Punching well above my f*cking weight."

or..."Carl Froch....boxing's soon to be forgotten man!"

Froch is in my eyes a british fighter we can be proud of i just wish he wasnt so insecure which causes him to act like a plank