About v2How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
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How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by hazharrison Tue 04 Nov 2014, 8:28 pm
Interesting point posed by Carlos Acevedo here:
Bernard Hopkins, whose “Alien” shtick is sure to excite WWE devotees, has seemingly bypassed “manopause.” Closing in on 50, Hopkins faces Russian wrecking machine Sergey “Krusher” Kovalev on November 8 in Atlantic City. Although Kovalev is exactly the type of fighter Hopkins has always flummoxed in the past, he has emerged as the betting favorite on some lines. That may seem like a surprise to some. For one thing, other than Gabriel Campillo and Nathan Cleverly – who looked like he might have been struggling with stage fright – Kovalev has steamrolled a number of undistinguished pugs to get to a marquee platform. Ismayl Sillakh, Cedric Agnew, and Blake Caparello – these names hardly merit the energy it takes to get your QWERTY on. But Kovalev has done something similar to what Gennady Golovkin has been doing over the last two years: he leaves fighters shattered in the ring. Kovalev also has a few more weapons than the last few pugs Hopkins has defeated recently including bodywork and the ability to set up power shots off of his jab. Will that be enough to put Hopkins on a bocce ball court where he belongs? And if Hopkins wins, is anyone willing to go beyond his silly mask to ask how a man who turned pro when Ronald Reagan was still president is gunning for another title? Hopkins, after all, was on a website a few months questioning the accomplishments of Manny Pacquiao, who is 14 years younger than “B-Hop.” Or are you only allowed to pose those questions about certain phenomenal athletes?
Bernard Hopkins, whose “Alien” shtick is sure to excite WWE devotees, has seemingly bypassed “manopause.” Closing in on 50, Hopkins faces Russian wrecking machine Sergey “Krusher” Kovalev on November 8 in Atlantic City. Although Kovalev is exactly the type of fighter Hopkins has always flummoxed in the past, he has emerged as the betting favorite on some lines. That may seem like a surprise to some. For one thing, other than Gabriel Campillo and Nathan Cleverly – who looked like he might have been struggling with stage fright – Kovalev has steamrolled a number of undistinguished pugs to get to a marquee platform. Ismayl Sillakh, Cedric Agnew, and Blake Caparello – these names hardly merit the energy it takes to get your QWERTY on. But Kovalev has done something similar to what Gennady Golovkin has been doing over the last two years: he leaves fighters shattered in the ring. Kovalev also has a few more weapons than the last few pugs Hopkins has defeated recently including bodywork and the ability to set up power shots off of his jab. Will that be enough to put Hopkins on a bocce ball court where he belongs? And if Hopkins wins, is anyone willing to go beyond his silly mask to ask how a man who turned pro when Ronald Reagan was still president is gunning for another title? Hopkins, after all, was on a website a few months questioning the accomplishments of Manny Pacquiao, who is 14 years younger than “B-Hop.” Or are you only allowed to pose those questions about certain phenomenal athletes?
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by ONETWOFOREVER Wed 05 Nov 2014, 1:44 am
1 word
the Mongoose
the Mongoose
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by John Bloody Wayne Wed 05 Nov 2014, 2:00 am
That's 2.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by Derbymanc Wed 05 Nov 2014, 3:28 am
Good little article Haz, I'm not sure about B-Hop, in some ways it's amazing that he's still able to accomplish all of this at 50 but it just seems wrong to be cheering on a man of 50, or be wanting him to get knocked out.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by kingraf Wed 05 Nov 2014, 5:25 am
The obvious answer is he's American.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by jimdig Wed 05 Nov 2014, 7:40 am
Pascal tried to kick up a fuss about their being no advanced testing for their fight, it didn't get him very far. There is no testing outside of the the standard commission standard testing for the kovalev fight either.
Of course this doesn't mean that Hopkins is on hormone or teststosterone replacement therapy, that's just the sort of thing the haters would say that have been trying to push him out of boxing for years. He's just a throw back fighter. Did jack Johnson, Henry Armstrong, Ray Robinson, Archie Moore undergo WADA testing? No. Then why should Hopkins be held to a different standard??
Of course this doesn't mean that Hopkins is on hormone or teststosterone replacement therapy, that's just the sort of thing the haters would say that have been trying to push him out of boxing for years. He's just a throw back fighter. Did jack Johnson, Henry Armstrong, Ray Robinson, Archie Moore undergo WADA testing? No. Then why should Hopkins be held to a different standard??
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by ONETWOFOREVER Wed 05 Nov 2014, 8:03 am
Archie Moore fought till very late and was involved in wars.
Some fighters can do it some can't
Archie Moore was the Mongoose.
Some fighters can do it some can't
Archie Moore was the Mongoose.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 05 Nov 2014, 9:39 am
Doesn't have to escape anything...
Passes the test he's fine...
Doesn't mean he hasn't cheated but let's face it..............With huge rewards in Boxing as in a lot of other sports I'm willing to bet lots of boxers have been naughty...
70s/80s were rife..
In fairness to Hoppo he only fights 30 seconds a round anyway and then ties the other guy up in such a way as to look like he's being held..
Canny old Man is Hoppo.......Kovo please leave him face down !!
Passes the test he's fine...
Doesn't mean he hasn't cheated but let's face it..............With huge rewards in Boxing as in a lot of other sports I'm willing to bet lots of boxers have been naughty...
70s/80s were rife..
In fairness to Hoppo he only fights 30 seconds a round anyway and then ties the other guy up in such a way as to look like he's being held..
Canny old Man is Hoppo.......Kovo please leave him face down !!
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by TopHat24/7 Wed 05 Nov 2014, 12:06 pm
Why? Partly because of what Raf alludes to, and partly because he isn't a potential Mayweather oppo (his camp being the ones the originated all the Pac abuse).
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by hazharrison Wed 05 Nov 2014, 12:27 pm
jimdig wrote:Pascal tried to kick up a fuss about their being no advanced testing for their fight, it didn't get him very far. There is no testing outside of the the standard commission standard testing for the kovalev fight either.
Of course this doesn't mean that Hopkins is on hormone or teststosterone replacement therapy, that's just the sort of thing the haters would say that have been trying to push him out of boxing for years. He's just a throw back fighter. Did jack Johnson, Henry Armstrong, Ray Robinson, Archie Moore undergo WADA testing? No. Then why should Hopkins be held to a different standard??
When Pacquiao was accused by the Mayweathers, he sued for defamation (the suit was dropped after Pacquiao requested copies of Mayweather's testing records).
Were Robinson, Moore etc. comparable to Hopkins physically when they were 50?
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 05 Nov 2014, 12:33 pm
TopHat24/7 wrote:Why? Partly because of what Raf alludes to, and partly because he isn't a potential Mayweather oppo (his camp being the ones the originated all the Pac abuse).
Whilst we all may think JMM, Manny, Hoppo et al may have indulged..
Fact is unless they are caught it won't impact on anybody's legacy..
Rumors are rumors..................
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by KingMonkey Wed 05 Nov 2014, 1:01 pm
It's because he's black.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by Guest Wed 05 Nov 2014, 1:05 pm
Hang on, Manny's not black is he?
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 05 Nov 2014, 1:26 pm
KingMonkey wrote:It's because he's black.
I thought Azania had left..
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by Steffan Wed 05 Nov 2014, 5:02 pm
KingMonkey wrote:It's because he's black.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by ShahenshahG Wed 05 Nov 2014, 5:13 pm
I imagine hes taking the urine. Its probably because you can see hes deteriorating and fighting less and less spending more time wrestling or fouling or pretending to have been fouled. The only top level operator hes fought in recent times beat him pretty handily and the also rans were never that great to start with. In context of his age they are great wins whereas earlier they would have been routine. Hes also picking his opponents to suit his style hence his categorically ruling out ward. With Pacquiao it looks like hes come up from flyweight when he really hasnt. At flyweight he was shyte and most of the time he was fighting at feather he was actually a welterweight come fight night. So he hasnt really come up from flyweight - hes just not cutting down as much - just like broner with more skill and maybe guts.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by Guest Wed 05 Nov 2014, 5:17 pm
That's a stick you can beat a helluva lot of fighters with though.ShahenshahG wrote:I imagine hes taking the urine. Its probably because you can see hes deteriorating and fighting less and less spending more time wrestling or fouling or pretending to have been fouled. The only top level operator hes fought in recent times beat him pretty handily and the also rans were never that great to start with. In context of his age they are great wins whereas earlier they would have been routine. Hes also picking his opponents to suit his style hence his categorically ruling out ward. With Pacquiao it looks like hes come up from flyweight when he really hasnt. At flyweight he was shyte and most of the time he was fighting at feather he was actually a welterweight come fight night. So he hasnt really come up from flyweight - hes just not cutting down as much - just like broner with more skill and maybe guts.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by hazharrison Wed 05 Nov 2014, 5:22 pm
Pacquiao was very definitely built up - even Roach admitted the special 'shakes Ariza fed him were highly suspect (and neither of them knew what was in them - which isn't at all odd). This just happened to coincide with the best run of his career where he terrorised far bigger men (and packed on muscle while seemingly increasing his power and retaining his speed).
I know everyone trots out the "innocent until proven guilty" line but no-one gets caught in boxing unless they're completely sackless. I don't want to compromise the site so I'll just say I have my own views on it. There's more than enough circumstantial evidence for me (same deal with Marquez).
Anyone who reaches 50 and is matching the punch output of far younger men is highly unusual to put it mildly. Foreman may have beaten Moorer at 45 but he was taking a monumental pounding until he cut loose with a humdinger.
I know everyone trots out the "innocent until proven guilty" line but no-one gets caught in boxing unless they're completely sackless. I don't want to compromise the site so I'll just say I have my own views on it. There's more than enough circumstantial evidence for me (same deal with Marquez).
Anyone who reaches 50 and is matching the punch output of far younger men is highly unusual to put it mildly. Foreman may have beaten Moorer at 45 but he was taking a monumental pounding until he cut loose with a humdinger.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by ShahenshahG Wed 05 Nov 2014, 5:24 pm
DAVE667 wrote:That's a stick you can beat a helluva lot of fighters with though.ShahenshahG wrote:I imagine hes taking the urine. Its probably because you can see hes deteriorating and fighting less and less spending more time wrestling or fouling or pretending to have been fouled. The only top level operator hes fought in recent times beat him pretty handily and the also rans were never that great to start with. In context of his age they are great wins whereas earlier they would have been routine. Hes also picking his opponents to suit his style hence his categorically ruling out ward. With Pacquiao it looks like hes come up from flyweight when he really hasnt. At flyweight he was shyte and most of the time he was fighting at feather he was actually a welterweight come fight night. So he hasnt really come up from flyweight - hes just not cutting down as much - just like broner with more skill and maybe guts.
Yeah but i'm not using it as a criticism, just to illustrate that its pretty clear he isn't performing miracles - just being very smart and working as little as possible. Whereas at the time Pacquiao looked like he was a giant slayer crushing all and sundry. I guess it just supports the view that no fighter can be assessed properly until hes long retired.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by Marco_Marky - Stuffington Wed 05 Nov 2014, 5:28 pm
Pacquiao's head (as in bone density) also looks to have increased. So has Floyd's as well. Hopkins isn't displaying any of the tell tale visual signs that these two have.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by Guest Wed 05 Nov 2014, 5:31 pm
It also supports the assertion that Hopkins isn't on any PED as his performances are him doing just enough to get over the line as opposed to slaying beasts which I believe is what the OP hints at....ever so subtleyShahenshahG wrote:DAVE667 wrote:That's a stick you can beat a helluva lot of fighters with though.ShahenshahG wrote:I imagine hes taking the urine. Its probably because you can see hes deteriorating and fighting less and less spending more time wrestling or fouling or pretending to have been fouled. The only top level operator hes fought in recent times beat him pretty handily and the also rans were never that great to start with. In context of his age they are great wins whereas earlier they would have been routine. Hes also picking his opponents to suit his style hence his categorically ruling out ward. With Pacquiao it looks like hes come up from flyweight when he really hasnt. At flyweight he was shyte and most of the time he was fighting at feather he was actually a welterweight come fight night. So he hasnt really come up from flyweight - hes just not cutting down as much - just like broner with more skill and maybe guts.
Yeah but i'm not using it as a criticism, just to illustrate that its pretty clear he isn't performing miracles - just being very smart and working as little as possible. Whereas at the time Pacquiao looked like he was a giant slayer crushing all and sundry. I guess it just supports the view that no fighter can be assessed properly until hes long retired.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by ShahenshahG Wed 05 Nov 2014, 5:37 pm
has anyone actually measured their heads? I cant tell the difference between the former versions or the latter version except that the former the skin is wrapped tight to their faces as they've stopped cutting down the structure appears to be the same and without any like for like comparison i'm unwilling to accept that their heads have grown massively.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by Rowley Wed 05 Nov 2014, 5:43 pm
Moore was still an effective fighter at 45. Given modern fighters fight once every six months at most, rather than the kind of schedule that was common in Moore's era is it really that far out of leftfield that Bernard's less intensive schedule would be able to prolong his career by 4 years more than Archie?
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by kingraf Wed 05 Nov 2014, 5:50 pm
Manny's head looks massive when he's wearing a suit. But I don't know how it looked when he was wearing a suit at 25, so its rather unscientific.
As for Hopkins. I'm pretty happy to hang him without trial. Can't really be expected to believe a fifty year who refuses drug testing leading up to a fight is clean? I mean... he might be, but why not take the test? At any point?
As for Hopkins. I'm pretty happy to hang him without trial. Can't really be expected to believe a fifty year who refuses drug testing leading up to a fight is clean? I mean... he might be, but why not take the test? At any point?
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by Seanusarrilius Wed 05 Nov 2014, 6:38 pm
Manny was moving up, dusting far bigger men and refusing drug tests because of needle phobia.
Hopkins got old as hell, looks old as hell, sounds old as hell, fights 1 minute of a round and wins because he is smarter than his opponents.
The End.
Hopkins got old as hell, looks old as hell, sounds old as hell, fights 1 minute of a round and wins because he is smarter than his opponents.
The End.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by kingraf Wed 05 Nov 2014, 7:09 pm
Out of nothing but pure interest, as I've heard this ad nauseum, who are these far bigger men?
Diaz?
Márquez?
Cotto?
Bradley?
Only guys in recent history obviously bigger than him were Oscar and Anotonio. One was old, the other was really just a punch bag.
Diaz?
Márquez?
Cotto?
Bradley?
Only guys in recent history obviously bigger than him were Oscar and Anotonio. One was old, the other was really just a punch bag.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by jimdig Wed 05 Nov 2014, 10:48 pm
Clottey and Mosley too. Although they fit the old and punchbag profile too.
Is hopo juicing? i'm not that bothered as kovalev had no interest in pushing for more stringent tests either. Kathy duva said it never cropped up as a point of discussion and she feels it's should be left to the commissions.
Is hopo juicing? i'm not that bothered as kovalev had no interest in pushing for more stringent tests either. Kathy duva said it never cropped up as a point of discussion and she feels it's should be left to the commissions.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by John Bloody Wayne Wed 05 Nov 2014, 10:58 pm
Pacman 2001, circa Ledwaba:
Pacman 2014, circa Bradley:
I don't think there's any difference.
Pacman 2014, circa Bradley:
I don't think there's any difference.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by kingraf Thu 06 Nov 2014, 6:09 am
Is Cotto far bigger? Same height, weight, and while the fatty is now a middleweight champ, I don't remember watching him in a fight post welterweight where he didn't look horribly undersized. Manny certainly didn't look undersized in the actual fight. Clottey, granted... but he'd have to have fought back at some point...
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by hazharrison Thu 06 Nov 2014, 6:42 am
Seanusarrilius wrote:Manny was moving up, dusting far bigger men and refusing drug tests because of needle phobia.
Hopkins got old as hell, looks old as hell, sounds old as hell, fights 1 minute of a round and wins because he is smarter than his opponents.
The End.
He has remarkable stamina for a (near) 50-year old man. It would be reassuring to know how he achieved that. Fighting a disciplined, strategic fight demands a high level of fitness. It is the reason so many fighters unravel as they tire.
Hopkins is a guy who'd do anything to win: foul, cheat, feign injury, psychology, controversy - anything to gain an edge. How great would it be to know for sure that - in today's climate - he really was the old school fighter he is portrayed as? Hopkins criticising Pacquiao for unusual results is odd considering he has yet to adhere to any form of testing worth it's salt himself.
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Re: How Does Hopkins Escape Questions Asked Of Pacquiao?
by Guest Thu 06 Nov 2014, 10:22 am
If Hopkins fought with the same intensity as Manny I'd consider the question a valid but as he doesn't it isn't so shut up!
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