Scotland V New Zealand - November 15th

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Scotland v New Zealand

Date: Saturday, November 15
Venue: BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh
Kickoff: 17:30 local (GMT)
Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant Referees: Johnny Lacey (Ireland), Stuart Berry (South Africa)
TMO: Gareth Simmonds (Wales)

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Right this isn't one of your GC fancy pants matchday threads, I'm in charge this time.

Had originally considered calling it the 'Kiwi Krushing Kelebration' thread, but realized that'd be an inappropriate acronym...

Now onto the game, normally you'd expect to read about form / head to head here, but for reasons which I'll go onto none of that really matters because this is the year that we will finally beat the All Blacks!

Now what makes me so sure you ask, well quite simply, I've a cast iron, 100% scientific theory that proves that next weekend we will at long last neutralize New Zealand.  

2003 England win the Rugby World Cup - 3 years later they lose at Murrayfield
2007 South Africa win the Rugby World Cup - 3 years later they lose at Murrayfield
2011 New Zealand win the Rugby World Cup - 3 years later...  

Quite simply and to quote Tinie Tempah, it's "written in the stars".

Teams to be announced (not that it matters).

Scotland

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); 25 caps
14 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors); 14 caps
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), 1 cap
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors); 9 caps
11 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors); 11 caps
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors); 3 caps
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester); 32 caps

1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby); 37 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby); 78 caps
3 Euan Murray (Glasgow Warriors); 61 caps
4 Richie Gray (Castres); 40 caps
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors); 6 caps
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors); 8 caps
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish); 4 caps
8 Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors); 2 caps

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors); 1 cap
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors); 4 caps
18 Geoff Cross (London Irish); 33 caps
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors); 9 caps
20 Johnnie Beattie (Castres); 32 caps
21 Chris Cusiter (Sale Sharks); 68 caps
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors); 16 caps
23 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors); 89 caps

New Zealand

15 Ben Smith
14 Colin Slade
13 Malakai Fekitoa
12 Ryan Crotty
11 Charle Piutau
10 Dan Carter
09 TJ Perenara

08 Victor Vito
07 Sam Cane
06 Richie McCaw
05 Dominic Bird
04 Jeremy Thrush
03 Charlie Faumuina
02 James Parsons
01 Joe Moody

16 Dane Coles
17 Wyatt Crockett
18 Ben Franks
19 Luke Romano
20 Liam Messam
21 Augustin Pulu
22 Sonny Bill Williams
23 Julian Savea.

Last week, the man in the middle had a very poor second half, then became totally inept.
Whilst his calling of no try for the Argentinian double movement was very well spotted and well refereed, some of the other advantage and penalty decisions for both sides were random to say the least.
The Harley yellow was an extremely poor decision, as it was clear on the replay for the TMO that the Argentinian jumper was thrown up into the air and then just not supported by his own team mates. The only thing that Harley was guilty of was being the Scottish player that was closest to the incident. Very poor decision.
That then accounted for two tries, we were culpable for the last one, and I'm sure that situation won't arise again in VC's tenure....
But yes, I agree Big Gee, it is often the case that a major nation will be allowed a few bites before being reprimanded with a yellow, whereas the minor nations get stamped on at the first bite.
However, with the confidence that our boys are gaining at the moment, there should be a more positive approach and body language and hopefully parity over decision making by the man in the middle.

notch, Jimbo and Braveheart,

Last week Richie McCaw (second half) executed a steal that each of you should see, and probably study it very hard several times, it was an example of a master craftsmen of the game putting on a display that only brilliance can achieve.

Instead what we get is the ignorance of fans not realising that they have just been treated to witnessing one the games greatest players but would rather dismiss him as nothing more than a cheat.

If playing for one of the top teams in the World, being the skipper of one of those teams, and being successful (winning) can be easily achieved via cheating then I would suggest that you guys have missed out on a lot of Rugby and what it offers.

Anglobraveheart wrote:Auckland, you seem like a decent fella for an Aussie......
It was me that commented on Tuesday morning that McCaw was a cheat. Whilst I am most definitely NOT English, (and struggle to embrace their rugby persona) it was pretty blatant the way that McCaw came in from the side when England were threatening the NZ line. His careful calculated penalty give-aways at various strategic points during the rest of this game (and others) is typical of his measured approach to cheating, combined with the 'protection' received in being the captain, He well and truly milks this to best advantage.
Now then, if this is being "fully aware of the laws", then I think a point has been stretched to extreme distortion.
As I said previously, I just hope that Romain Poite has large enough cahoonas to do the right thing and get these offenders into the bin, regardless of which nation they hail from or whether they are the captain or not.
Please also understand that despite the myopia of the NZ Herald, the general impression I have of NZ (or Aussie) posters on here are fair, balanced and refreshing.
Your captain however, is a bandit.
Your teams rugby is clinical, often pure and simple natural genius, but often tainted by needless gamesmanship. (cheating).
I look forward to a fabulous match on Saturday, and in many ways it promises to be a new beginning for many on both sides.

So with your attention to detail, I'm assuming you wouldn't have selected Mr McCaw to any one of his 3 World players of the year, assuming 'cheats are not regularly at the top of their list as a consideration, or if you had been a ref would no doubt have sent him off with a yellow more than the twice he has in his 130 odd tests, despite the probably 30 or 40 refs or more to have reffed his matches in his career not doing so...can you tell me...

why have so, so many who make a successful living from making these decisions got it soooo wrong, where you have got it sooooo right?

Can you explain that please Braveheart? I find that discrepancy fascinating, I mean how can that be?

aucklandlaurie wrote:notch, Jimbo and Braveheart,

Last week Richie McCaw (second half) executed a steal that each of you should see, and probably study it very hard several times, it was an example of a master craftsmen  of the game putting on a display that only brilliance can achieve.

Instead what we get is the ignorance of fans not realising that they have just been treated to witnessing one the games greatest players but would rather dismiss him as nothing more than a cheat.

If playing for one of the top teams in the World, being the skipper of one of those teams, and being successful (winning) can be easily achieved via cheating then I would suggest that you guys have missed out on a lot of Rugby and what it offers.

I spotted it.


 He does cheat - but so do all great backrows.  Its called "pushing the boundaries"  One of the things McCaw is particularly good at is working out very quickly what any ref is going to allow or not.  You will see him give away pens early on but then stopping doing what ever he is penalised for.  He is also so quick of thinking as well as in execution.  Gets into the right place at the right time.  

McCaw would not knock a ball out of a scrum halfs hand like Neil Back did.  Nor does he ever moan at either getting the treatment from someone nor decisions agaisnt him. Nor does he punchand niggle. Two yellows his entire career says a lot

Was John Jeffries a cheat?  If he was ever onside it was an accident

aucklandlaurie wrote: Jimbo, I dont know whose been filling your head with all this rubbish but the All Blacks do not cheat, you probably need to listen more to some of us Kiwi guys who know what we're talking about when it comes to rugby.

Last week there were still English posters coming on here saying how Richie McCaw is a cheat, or enjoys immunity from the referees etc etc, the fact is he doesnt cheat.

To say he & the All Blacks (or any team for that matter) doesn't cheat is just daft.

In terms of Richie, one incident really stood out from last week, after the Dave Atwood the English 2nd row made that great 20m break, following the missed kick coming off the post, he was tackled & McCaw came into the ruck so far offside he went in via the English gate! It was incredible both in its blatancy & that none of the officials picked up on it.

I mean don't get me wrong, I've got great respect for Captain Tackles McCaw & the All Blacks but at times their gamesmanship does grate. Although that's probably more a case of envy!

just got baby yesterday so i reckon we are looking good !

Look at the England game Aukland, 8:34 on the clock, after his little altercation with the England front row forward, he wanders straight back through the England side, then dives in. blatant, but Owens is so busy looking at the play on the floor he misses it.
16:02 blatantly dives over the top and seals the ball in. kickable range about 28m. he opts to give the 3 points away, as he knows he won't get sent to the bin as he is the captain, and saves the potential points.
19:50 in at the side, penalty 30 m out.
38:54 advantage being played from about 30m out, play progresses for England, McCaw then dives over again approx. 10m out and kills the ball again.
That's just the first half. if it was a 'minor' nation, they'd have been warned and penalised. but his is Richie McCaw. One rule for some and a different rule for others.......... Persistent infringing goes unpunished.

Taylorman, I do admire your honesty in previous posts.
Hopefully my detail in the previous message will answer you?
TJ and Glove are right. No complaining, n song and dance, just persistent infringing and getting away with it because he's the captain, and because of stealth.
Four blatant incidents in a brief review of the first half highlights, anyone else (except Martin Johnson maybe) would have been binned.
I hasten to add, hat any win against England is a joy for me, but so long as it's by fair means.

Braveheart, how can he know he wont get sin binned? as Taylorman mentioned a couple of posts up hes been yellow carded two times before at International level.

One rule for some and a different rule for others really?

Twice in 135 games! That's some record for a player who spends as long as McCaw does 'living on the edge'.

No he can't be sure he won't be sin binned.

But a) being captain he's far less likely to be sin binned
b) given his amazing 2/134 record, I wonder if refs view McCaw as though there's a special aura around him.
c) playing for such a dominant team, refs are less likely to bin him.

As for the one rule for others, given the amount of offences he can get away with in some games and stay on the field it does seem that way.

He's on a fairly safe bet. He's the captain. He's Richie McCaw. He's potentially untouchable.... He's gonna push it to the limit. Martin Johnson did the same. Admittedly McCaw is infinitely the better player than Johnson could ever have dreamed of being.
Given the four examples I've spotted from the first half highlights of the match on Saturday. Don't you think that it's a bit odd that he hasn't even been spoken to? never mind been given a yellow?
There were plenty of yellows dished out at the weekend for singular similar incidents. And all of those noted here are in very vulnerable areas. Harley got a yellow for being closest to the incident despite him not causing the fall.
My point is, other players would have been binned for the interference or killing the ball in the areas where it happened. just look at the hapless Jim Hamilton, penalty magnet. On for three minutes and binned for others offences. (TBH though, it's done us a big favour, as that man's a liability).
I'm just after a level playing field, and I don't think that is provided in relation to the way McCaw is refereed.

Anglobraveheart

At 8:24, isnt McCaw on his own tryline? And the altercation on the floor is with, you guessed it, Hartley.

At 16:02, McCaw is in the backline.

19:50 is Read and Kaino on the wrong side of the maul, Owens says so 'too slow'.

38:54 Marler gets tackled and doesnt release as theres no english support, McCaw tries to pilfer it and Owens say 'lost' meaning McCaw has the ball, 3 from england drags McCaw down on to the english side of the ruck and Read gets penalised for going off his feet. But, the penalty should have gone to the ABs for Marler not releasing and McCaw executing another piece of brilliance in turning the ball over.

Are we watching the same game mate? I'll be the first to admit i dont know the fine details of the laws of the game. But what you've presented is hardly enough evidence in the first half to call McCaw a cheat.

Oh,the one eyed cheating drivel again? Ritchie McCaw from 2002 to date nominated IRB
Player of the year 8 times.Winner 3 times should have been 4 [2012] he plays the referee
so does every good team.

England last Saturday mid field constantly off side,EVERY Scrum EITHER side could have
been pinged.Last Two Scrum wheeling 90 degrees going up RESET not a penalty certainly
not a penalty try.Lineout England closing the gap all match,knocking ball out of a players
hand on the goal line.The Hartley incident winding up his opposite number by shoving
trying to invoke a yellow or even red card.As to Cares Hollywood is he the bloke dives for
penalties soccer style?

Don`t be so hopelessly one eyed England got by far the better of Owens decisions,every
team trys it on.IF the Ref picks it early you could be pinged out of the game rightly
or wrongly [see Stu Dickinson on occasions]

Brave heart

I go to the game to examine the first incident which you state is at 8:34.

I go back to the lineout which occurs at 8:10.

England throw the ball in, commence a rolling maul which splinters ...Did you spot the five 5 english players who have now exceeded the advantage line....ones even over the goal line. no New Zealand penalty.

8:16: Ruck goes over the top of Mc Caw, English No 2 Hartley holds Mccaw down on ground. no new Zealand penalty.

8:23: McCaw tackles Vunipola.

8:28 Mccaw is back on goal line just in front of Lawes.

8: 34 I cant see where Mccaw is???

Do we have a different definition of what "on the clock" means?

No, McCaw wasn't on his own try line, he went straight back through from the wrong side. He's supposed to go around. I agree Hartley is a nuisance, but that isn't the point here. Point is he's just blundered in from an off side position and dived in.
16:06, sorry, 4 secs out. McCaw defo kills it again. penalty given against him.
19:50 yes it is those two, but McCaw is in there are well.
as for "dragging him in" come on, it was a penalty advantage already, and then he blatantly dives over and kills it even closer to the line. The point is that it's that persistent infringing that he gets away with.
If that's not evidence, then yeah, maybe we are watching a different game.
As I've said before, I just want parity n refereeing, regardless of which team or which layer.
I also stand by that this will be a new beginning in many ways for both sides

Anglobraveheart wrote:No, McCaw wasn't on his own try line, he went straight back through from the wrong side. He's supposed to go around. I agree Hartley is a nuisance, but that isn't the point here. Point is he's just blundered in from an off side position and dived in.
16:06, sorry, 4 secs out. McCaw defo kills it again. penalty given against him.
19:50 yes it is those two, but McCaw is in there are well.
as for "dragging him in" come on, it was a penalty advantage already, and then he blatantly dives over and kills it even closer to the line. The point is that it's that persistent infringing that he gets away with.
If that's not evidence, then yeah, maybe we are watching a different game.
As I've said before, I just want parity n refereeing, regardless of which team or which layer.  
I also stand by that this will be a new beginning in many ways for both sides

Dont get ahead of me, Im still working on the 8: 34 incident.

Why cant he go straight back?

From the wrong side of what?

Hes supposed to go round what or who?

Im trying to take your complaint seriously but your generalistic accusations (with more holes than substance) are making it real hard .

Sorry if I appear 'general'. I thought that identifying the times on the screen clock would be specific enough.
he should go straight back so that he isn't interfering with play. From the wrong side of the breakdown. (or maybe Richie doesn't have one of those?? ;-) ) Around the breakdown, not just meander up the middle of it.
'Complaint', nah, just an observation from a neutral rugby fan. sorry there appears to you to be little substance, that's not the intention. Maybe try harder?? Goodnight.

Goodnight braveheart, have a good sleep. Its good to point out times though as it at least makes us aware of the incidents that lead to the label of cheat for McCaw. So i appreciate you going to the effort, i wish more people would do the same rather than just being generic about it.

One final thing on the subject of McCaw & cheating, I think we'd all enjoy this classic Pulp Sport video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZB9TuTJ9UY

One other thing, I'm ok to call Hartley a rotten cheat eh?

ebop wrote:One other thing, I'm ok to call Hartley a rotten cheat eh?

Don't stop there!

Braveheart have a good sleep, but I seriously cant identify what the offence is that McCaw committed in that passage of play.

Yes , I agree it is helpful to give a time on the clock (and thank you for that) but to put one frame into the context of a passage of play doesnt work, you have to review the whole passage of play, thats why I commenced 20 seconds earlier to the commencement of the lineout.

Cheers man.

GLove39 wrote:

ebop wrote:One other thing, I'm ok to call Hartley a rotten cheat eh?

Don't stop there!

Just testing the waters GLove

GLove39 wrote:One final thing on the subject of McCaw & cheating, I think we'd all enjoy this classic Pulp Sport video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZB9TuTJ9UY

Ah yes, bit of a classic from many years ago. I like that even our respectable older kiwi woman folk will go into bat for McCaw. I tell ya, hes the most trusted man in NZ, so how can he be as cheating as everyone says. It's regrettable that that wasnt the worst thing Bill has done in his life either. Although it'd be up there.

Unfortunately we dont seem to get other international matches on our basic skytv subscription in NZ other than the ABs. So i dont know much about the inform players in the Scottish team. Can anyone shed any light on the inform guys to watch or any new up and coming players and what we may expect from the team? I read in our papers the Scots are opening up a bit more but i recall they have been giving it a crack for a while now. Cheers.

ebop wrote:

GLove39 wrote:One final thing on the subject of McCaw & cheating, I think we'd all enjoy this classic Pulp Sport video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZB9TuTJ9UY

Ah yes, bit of a classic from many years ago. I like that even our respectable older kiwi woman folk will go into bat for McCaw. I tell ya, hes the most trusted man in NZ, so how can he be as cheating as everyone says. It's regrettable that that wasnt the worst thing Bill has done in his life either. Although it'd be up there.

I thjnk the real issue is determining those comments from people who genuinely believe he's a cheat in a deliberate sense regardless of who he actually is (and I don't think there are many of those) then from those who think he pushes the boundaries and perhaps gets away with more than most because he is good at it (and I think there are a good balanced and reasoned group of those ) and finally those who think he's a cheat purely out of envy and frustration, and from my experience all 3 exist, the third group are by far the loudest and are the 'wood' for the trees in any discussion on the matter. So the response to these people will be which group they are speaking from.

You braveheart are applying a bit of an overlap of all 3 types so are getting mixed responses, but in the end, they're all largely the same result...

ebop wrote:Unfortunately we dont seem to get other international matches on our basic skytv subscription in NZ other than the ABs. So i dont know much about the inform players in the Scottish team. Can anyone shed any light on the inform guys to watch or any new up and coming players and what we may expect from the team? I read in our papers the Scots are opening up a bit more but i recall they have been giving it a crack for a while now. Cheers.

Cotter has Scotland playing heads up rugby, so expect to see a willingness to attack from anywhere on the pitch if it's on. Our back three is very, very quick, so we'll try and release them in space as much as possible.

New players to watch out for are Jonny Gray at lock, younger brother of Richie and probably more talented. His work rate is off scale and he's shown incredible maturity for a 20 yr old. Adam Ashe at 8 also looks very promising, another lad with a huge engine and enough bulk to knock folk back in the tackle. Mark Bennett at 13 will be winning his second cap, runs great lines and has serious gas. Looked a bit nervous last week but will hopefully be a wee bit more settled in to life as an international player now.

Taylorman, I think I fall into the first two categories, and there is a very subtle line between these in my opinion, but like many things between rival nations, it does come down to opinions, which can be partisan at times. The beauty of our sport though is that we can discuss it and (agree to?) differ.
With regards to up and coming players, I think Jonny Gray is a future Scotland captain, and at only 20, his graft and nous around the park is exceptional.
The centre pairing of Alex Dunbar and Mark Bennett aged 24 and 21 respectively are also individually very good all round players and a club pairing who are capable of excellent attack and defence.
Finn Russell at stand off is 22 and is shaping to be an excellent talent as his game management skills develop, good distribution and good defence.
Adam Ashe is 21 and is the young up and coming No8 who is a solid defender and tough cookie at making the hard yards.
Rob Harley, blindside forward is 24, and is very disruptive around the park, as well as developing his handling skills and a useful lineout option.
These new young guys supplement established players like Hogg, Maitland, Seymour and Laidlaw in the backs and the forwards Dickinson, Ford, Murray and Richie Gray who appear to have been reinvigorated thanks to Vern Cotter's influence.
Blair Cowan has also been workmanlike in his approach and is an integral part of the blend that makes up this squad. He maybe hasn't got the stealth of RMc, yet, but he is a grafter.
The influence of VC has been very noticeable, and I've been delighted with his ethos and selections so far. The squad is reinvigorated, and it should be a very competitive game tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it, greatly.
Finally, with regards to glove/Ebop's query on Hartley, yes, feel free, I don't have a great amount (well none actually) of admiration for him, he's never far from foul play and poor conduct. His antics on Saturday were poor, but unsurprising, given his track record, and I would have given him a yellow too. The NZ player kicking out was silly, but it really was a bit of petulant handbags. I think the last laugh was on Dylan Hartley though, as despite his efforts, the result was a net gain of 3 points for NZ when they were down to 14.

On McCaw, I don't think we can complain about the manner of his play - he's proven time and again to be a top class 7. What do top class 7s do? They live on the edge, they know the rules better than the referee and they exploit it. We'd all love to have a player like that. It's also helped by the fact that from everything I've seen, McCaw is a true gent and deals very well with refs a bit like some of the Irish players through the years. I think people's issue is refereeing consistency - as long as refereeing is consistent then I don't think we can complain too much. Better teams do tend to get the rub of the green as they are perceived to be on top, even if that is not the case. Therefore they will get decisions in their favour. I firmly believe that you make your own luck. If we want to get that luck then it has to be earned through on field performances and also mannerisms - confidence is key.

ebop wrote:Unfortunately we dont seem to get other international matches on our basic skytv subscription in NZ other than the ABs. So i dont know much about the inform players in the Scottish team. Can anyone shed any light on the inform guys to watch or any new up and coming players and what we may expect from the team? I read in our papers the Scots are opening up a bit more but i recall they have been giving it a crack for a while now. Cheers.

I think we are opening up but in a different way to what had been seen previously. Under the muppet Scott Johnson (we'd have been better off with Boris) he gave lip about playing exciting and fast rugby then proceeded to have us spend 80 mins chasing overly long box kicks with a team consisting of 6 number 8s, 1 prop, a garden gnome, 3 chess pieces, GC's mildly racist uncle Dougie's wife (Dougie couldn't get a look in), Sean Lamont, Tim 'tackling isn't for me" Visser and the Queen.

Under uncle Vern he's trying to actually get our players playing heads up rugby, looking at the opposition in front of them and exploiting space rather than rugby by numbers. I think we'll see some mistakes on the pitch as time goes by, as it's not something I feel has been pushed that much before but I'm sure Glasgow form will help with it. Vern's even picking players in their best positions which is pretty unheard of this century!

In terms of up and coming players to watch I'd mention the following who may have appeared since the last Scotland NZ game:
Finn Russell (10) - Was playing club rugby a year ago. He only has 3 caps but has a good boot (couple of great touch finders last week), plays a nice running game to keep the defence honest and is pretty fearless in defence. His attitude is great, he's confident and it's nice to see a Scottish 10 with a bit of a swagger! It will be a big test of his development coming up against one of the all time greats though.

Jonny Gray (lock) - he's a bit shorter but a bit nastier than his brother. A traditional lock who calls lineouts, hits rucks and makes hard yards. Only 20 but seems to have been knocking on the door for ages. He captained the under 20s at 18 (I think) and has captained Glasgow, a Scotland captain for the future.

Rob Harley (6) - The ginger tackle monster. What team would be complete without an angry ginger? Nobody knows what he's like ball in hand, but he'll spend the whole match tackling and being a nuisance. He works hard for the team and is often one of the first to the ruck. Not much of a threat with the ball although he seems to have been working on it a bit and when not in the thick of it, can show soft hands to quickly pop the ball on. Good lineout option (played a bit at lock) although somewhat unfairly sin binned last weekend.

Mark Bennett (13) - Played his debut last week and was not exactly a revelation, but he made his tackles and according to ESPN made 2 turnovers which is a decent showing. Showed some nerves with a couple of knock ons, but we'd be looking at things differently had Jonny Gray passed to him in a 2 on 1 - he'd have gone under the posts on debut. He's been a revelation for Glasgow since coming back after a couple of years in the Clermont Auvergne espoirs, has pace and runs great lines. He has also been known to kick 60m penalties... It remains to be seen whether he can transfer this form to international level.

Have any Kiwi's noticed NZ's new change shirt is all white. Think this is gas. Deliberate ploy to annoy England at their WC?

Swinson injured in training, Denton replaces him on the bench. I presume Harley will move to lock if either Gray is injured.

Captain_Sensible wrote:Swinson injured in training, Denton replaces him on the bench. I presume Harley will move to lock if either Gray is injured.

Poop, so now we have 3 number 8s in the 23... Has SJ been nearby?

I thought we had Kieran Low in the squad as he can cover lock, 6 and 8. Or is he just not that good?

At least we haven't got Jamilton back in though!

Also seeing in the OP that we have Lacey and Berry as Assistant Refs, I thought it was going to be the Gibbon?

Not that I'm complaining, of course.

I am actually happy enough to see Denton back in. There is probably no reason why the two Gray brothers cannot play the full 80 mins and we may well see both Beattie and Dents coming on in the back row. Denton still has a lot to offer in a Scotland shirt and he knows now that he has genuine competition for his place. Lets see what he can bring to the party.

I'm glad VC kept Adam Ashe in, he's been playing well. Tough start to his international career though! South Africa, Argentina then New Zealand!

Blimey, Swinson's not enjoying the best of luck is he?
First of all he gets announced in the squad last week then is switched for Hamilton... Then he's in again this week and picks up an injury. I still think it was odd last week that he was announced and then it changed. Unlucky Tim.

I suspect low and Hamilton had already been sent back to their clubs

Right, judging from the All Blacks Twitter it looks as if they'll be playing in white on Saturday????? Which is horrendously disappointing.
Especially given we're playing in red so there's no need for them to change.

This not on any TV channels then?

Riskysports wrote:This not on any TV channels then?

It's on BBC 2 is it not??

It is. Is the England game only on Sky?

highland_scot wrote:

Riskysports wrote:This not on any TV channels then?

It's on BBC 2 is it not??

Yes, yes it is

Thanks

GunsGerms wrote:It is. Is the England game only on Sky?

Think so, the RFU sold their soul to the devil...

Scotland have a great chance to win this game. The side NZ have put out really sends out the message they they think Scotland are complete crap which isnt the case.

Would love it if Scotland won.

Really hope the Gray's stay fit. Don't much fancy Harley or Denton in at lock.

I do agree GG, given the mass rotation, and given Scotland's performance against Argentina, we'll never get a better shot at this. What that usually means is a 50 point humping.

GunsGerms wrote:Scotland have a great chance to win this game. The side NZ have put out really sends out the message they they think Scotland are complete crap which isnt the case.

Would love it if Scotland won.

A chance anyway. Dunno about great. Its not for a while we have even had a chance. Of course NZ are using this game to give some lessor known faces a start. Its their easiest game on tour.
If Scotland come out and really go for them with a bit of controlled mayhem and get them under pressure then anything is possible.

ebop wrote:Unfortunately we dont seem to get other international matches on our basic skytv subscription in NZ other than the ABs. So i dont know much about the inform players in the Scottish team. Can anyone shed any light on the inform guys to watch or any new up and coming players and what we may expect from the team? I read in our papers the Scots are opening up a bit more but i recall they have been giving it a crack for a while now. Cheers.

I expect Scotland to go flat out from the start. In defence they will really work hard to cut down the space and go for turnovers. In attack expect a lot of offloading and variation. Scotland will play high risk rugby, this game is not about trying not to get humped. This is about having a real go and scoring tries. I'll be disappointed if Scotland don't score a couple. Laidlaw is a good player and looks to have regained confidence and form, We have a set of backs of high potential but check out the number of caps - its a very inexperienced team. I am genuinely excited about the year ahead for this team. ( if not for the ritual slaughter by the all blacks)

Oh - and remember - Scots fans have only two modes - "we can beat the world" or "we're doomed"

Hansen sure has pushed the boat out with this one. To start players that werent even in the original party- ahead of guys that were and havnt started yet and who can't possibly have been fully immersed into the AB environment yet- man he sure is giving Scotland their best ever chance.

But this is about trusting our systems. Everyone buys into the same system and the players are all equal parts of it...thats the theory anyway. If the Scots win it will be interesting to see what the reaction here is because many will say hes gifted a test to Scotland when so many before this side have fought so hard to protect one of the proudest records in rugby- never having lost to either Ireland or Scotland...

But if they win this will just further enhance the squad as a whole in terms of the belief in this environment.

This match is another defining one in Hansens career that's for sure. Good luck to him, as no one would have picked this side.

I don't think you need really worry tayloman. A win for scotland is as likely as the stats suggests. Yes we have a sniff of a chance but no more.

Taylorman. But isnt he trying to create all those possibilities that might occur?

Its not only about introducing some one new  like Parsons (who I hope as an Aucklander really grabs this opportunity by the ears) and sending him out there on to the big stage , but putting the regular squad members into the situation where they all of a sudden they are in a game and having to make the adjustments for that new team member?

In the Slade situation, I cant help but think that hes going to be a wing that plays quite some time at fullback, and B. Smith will not spend all day at fullback.

If the situation arose tonight that the ABs lost I think most Kiwis would understand what hes trying to do, I think we would say "good on yu mate, you deserve it to the Scots" and realise that it was an exercise addressing a possible situation in which a coach and his team may find themselves in a World Cup semi-final.