Ireland v Georgia Sunday 16th

Hi all,

Feel like this post can go up now that the dust is starting to settle on what was a very good win at the weekend.
Plenty of positives to take including the effective defense, the tenuous breakdown work and excellent control from the halfbacks. Some things could still be considered work ons including our attack with ball in hand, lineout and scrum.

Georgia, with all due respect, should be an easy game (echoes of 2007). Tonga beat them 23-6. Georgia failed to score a point in the second half and all of Tonga's tries came in the final 20minutes. Without wanting to sound too simplistic, it would appear as if Georgia are quite unfit albeit very physical while still on their feet. As a developed playing nation we should benefit from a number of things but the main one should be organisation and preparation. I am expecting a 100% return from our lineout, some later success in securing turnovers and our defensive shape to hold firm.

To put it bluntly, I don't believe that Georgia have any right scoring a point against us.............................with all due respect.

Injuries still account for a fair bit of our squad, other than the original cast who were down and out we have possibly lost Payne for this one, Best may be back, Henry should be back if it was just a virus and Darcy should be available also.

Any game day news, predictions, wish-lists etc pop it down below.
Much love,
Pete

My wishlist:

1) Marmion at 9 (if he doesn't start then I'd want him to get the 2nd half)
2) Ross to start (needs gametime)
3) Henshaw to get into the 13 jersey

4) Ireland to absolutely kill this Georgian team. I'm massively sick of us not putting weaker teams away and getting the scores we should deserve. There is absolutely no reason for us to be dragged down when we can pull teams apart by keeping our standards up. I am not expecting us to destroy the Georgians from the start but come the last 30mins I want them to feel like Dublin is the worst place in the world.

I wonder who will win this?

George Carlin wrote:I wonder who will win this?

That's what we thought back in 2007 George. We won but man they ran us closer than expected.
I've a number of abiding memories from that day:

1) BOD's reaction when Stringer threw the interception
2) Hickie's face during most of the game

Ah here now, Pete. You could play Connacht seconds and you'd still win.

It's the Six Nations champions versus the European Nations Cup champions!

Really excited for this game. Here is the team I want to see;

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rory Best (Sean Cronin if injured)
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Rhys Ruddock
7. Chris Henry (Peter O'Mahony if injured)
8. Jamie Heaslip (c)
9. Eoin Reddan
10. Ian Madigan
11. Simon Zebo
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Jared Payne (Gordon D'Arcy if injured)
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Stuart Olding

16. Sean Cronin/Richardt Strauss 17. Dave Kilcoyne 18. Rodney Ah You 19. Paul O'Connell 20. Peter O'Mahony 21. Conor Murray 22. Johnny Sexton 23. Rob Kearney

I think this kind of fixture should be a staple of every teams Autumn window. Georgia needs these kinds of games to develop. We need these games to try things out.

Yes, I am really looking forward to this match. I think the IRB should actually make it a rule that every 'Tier 1' side must play at least one full test match against a 'Tier 2' side every season.

Nice team Notch although I would also like to see Marmion at 9.

If Payne is injured and D'Arcy well, would you still have Henshaw at 12 and D'Arcy at 13? I am not sure I would, I would prefer Henshaw go to 13.

Yeah, exactly- it's just more laboroius to actually write that out in full

Ok, was not too sure there for a moment.

Like Pete, I think that Georgia is a team that Ireland should easily put 50 points on without conceding many.

I agree Nachos. We just have been really bad at this sort of game in the past.

Notch-
Do you not think McGrath would be best rested for this game and that we know enough about Reddan at this stage where as Marmion has potential that we may not fully know about yet?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Notch-
Do you not think McGrath would be best rested for this game and that we know enough about Reddan at this stage where as Marmion has potential that we may not fully know about yet?

This game is about preparing for Australia, and I don't see Marmion as being ready for international rugby as he doesn't have the kicking game yet. He will be first choice Irish 9 someday but right now, no, I wouldn't give him minutes. Marmion is ready for Georgia but I wouldn't have him near the 23 for Australia so for me it's much more important that the two scrum-halves who will be competing for the 9 shirt in that game get a chance to stake their claims.

I would say if things are going well take players off at half-time or at 50 minutes like McGrath etc. I've already indicated a lot of key players would be rested. Don't want to see a weakened team, do want to see clever use of the bench. This is a test match, not an experiment. I want us to be a little flexible with the team but winning and setting us up for Australia is the priority.

I'd rest most of the team for Australia. Schmidt actually hinted that too. There's only a 6 day turnaround to the Aussie game.

As for the match itself, they'll be a tough opposition but Ireland should be looking to win well.

profitius wrote:I'd rest most of the team for Australia. Schmidt actually hinted that too. There's only a 6 day turnaround to the Aussie game.

As for the match itself, they'll be a tough opposition but  Ireland should be looking to win well.

I would too. Players like Marmion, Keatley, Ah You, Archer, White, Diack, Ryan, O'Donnell, J Cronin, Olding and Leader should all be given game time.

I wouldnt be surprised if at least one of Payne and Henshaw feature too.

My tuppence.

15 - Jones
14 - Zebo
13 - Payne (if fit)
12 - Henshaw
11 - Gilroy
10 - Madigan
9 - Reddan

1 - Kilcoyne
2 - Strauss
3 - Ross
4 - Foley
5 - McCarthy
6 - Ruddock
7 - TOD
8 - Heaslip

Rep: Cronin, Archer, McGrath, Toner, Diack, Keatley, Marmion, Leader,

If Payne is fit I'd give the partnership another outing to see what they can do.

Otherwise I'd rest as many as possible after Saturday.

Would be tempted to put Ruddock to 8 and put Diack into 6 but a bit of experience in the backrow might be no harm.

What's the word on Best?

Whats the story with Donnacha Ryan?

Scratch that I just googled it:

"It's a weird injury. I haven't come across it before. It is a sesamoid bone - I've become very medical at this stage. It is the bone underneath the toe that you use to spring, so that is why the issue is around scrummaging"

Basically he can train fully but just cant scrummage. We have some nice subs at lock:

Ryan, McCarthy, Tuohy and Henderson. Decent depth if they can all recover.

D Ryan has had an operation on his toe*. Think he is due back end of Jan/Feb.


*``"It's a weird injury. I haven't come across it before. It is a sesamoid bone - I've become very medical at this stage. It is the bone underneath the toe that you use to spring, so that is why the issue is around scrummaging.

The Sesame Street Bone eh? First on me too. Big Bird Fracture in layman's terms.

All joking aside, Georgia are ranked 15th in the world at the moment, which is ahead of the USA and Canadia and catching Italy fast.

Plus, there's probably nothing else to do in Georgia but grow turnips and practice scrummaging. They'll give you a work out. And probably dish up at least one bad injury if you're not careful.

This is the fun of following Ireland.  
I believe Wales and England would absolutely put a cricket score on Georgia right now...and actually the wind of their billowing sails would score most trys when they actually took the halftime break and left the poor Georgians on the field, fending off the Welsh or English memories that were still good enough to score against them.

And the thing is................. you never really expect the same from Ireland.  Ireland tend to rise to meet ABs or SA or AUS or Eng, but then easily step off the accelerator and onto the breaks when playing 'minnows'.

We don't do 'Ruthless' usually - possibly out of some kind of duty to the underdog - wanting to give him a game and not embarrass him too much.  

But we need to go to that level that England or Wales wouldn't think twice about.  We need to become less empathetic, more ruthless - not meaning to embarrass the Georgians but to put our stamp on that philosophy that we always play as hard as we can when we can, whenever we put on the Ireland jersey.  

It's in our own future interests that we admit to ourselves that no side should expect favours from us or mercy.  We have to lookout for ourselves and punish considered weaker sides as Wales, SA, NZ, Eng and Australia would.

George Carlin wrote:All joking aside, Georgia are ranked 15th in the world at the moment, which is ahead of the USA and Canadia and catching Italy fast.

Plus, there's probably nothing else to do in Georgia but grow turnips and practice scrummaging. They'll give you a work out. And probably dish up at least one bad injury if you're not careful.

Sounds like Munster.

GunsGerms wrote:

George Carlin wrote:All joking aside, Georgia are ranked 15th in the world at the moment, which is ahead of the USA and Canadia and catching Italy fast.

Plus, there's probably nothing else to do in Georgia but grow turnips and practice scrummaging. They'll give you a work out. And probably dish up at least one bad injury if you're not careful.

Sounds like Munster.

Guns, can you and ME have a thread to yerselves to bicker? As its about to kick off here again with that sort of comment and after ye both tried your level best to get the fantastic SA match thread to go down to the usual nonsense...

No need to be so sensitive. All I said on the other thread was that I though Zebo was our worst player. Wow, call the forum police.

Though a thread for Dod and I does sound like a laugh. #BFFs

Just out of interest guys, what do you reckon our back 3 for this game will be? Will Kearney/Bowe/Zeebs get another game you think or will the team be rotated?

Zebo and Gilroy on the wings. Leader or Jones at fullback. Probably Leader.

Schmidt seems to really like Jones, even when he wasnt playing well he was in his Irish squads, so I'd imagine he'll get a game.

15. Jones
14. Bowe
13. Henshaw
12. Olding
11. Zebo
10. Madigan
 9. Marmion

 8. Heaslip
 7. TOD
 6. Ruddock
 5. McCarthy
 4. Toner
 3. Ross
 2. Best (Strauss)
 1. McGrath

16. Cronin 17. Kilkoyne 18. Ah You 19. Foley 20. Diack 21. Reddan 22. Keatley 23. Gilroy

If Paynes fit I'd leave the centres as they were and drop Olding to the bench.

Ross needs the game time and a match against a big scrummaging side could be good for McGrath.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Darcy feature if he's fit.

The team I'd like to see would be

Kilcoyne
Best
Ross

McGrath to be rested as he is our last very good LH and only a 6 day turnaround to Oz. Best and Ross to get game time.

Toner
Foley

Rest Paulie for same reason as McGrath. Foley in ahead of McCarthy to see what he can do and Toner in there for continuity.

Ruddock
Henry
Heaslip (c)

Rest POM for same reason as McGrath. Straight shoot out between Ruddock and Henry for me.

Murray
Keatley

Murray to give Keatley familiarity and also the team direction.

Darcy
Henshaw

Henshaw out one place as I think this could be the midfield against Oz. Madigan to 12 later perhaps.

Zebo
Gilroy
Jones

Resting Kearney as may still be recovering slightly.

Cronin-McGrath-Ah You-McCarthy-TOD-Marmion-Madigan-Bowe

I agree with that team Pete, good rotation, but for me I'd want the change at SH. I think Marmion has been knocking on the door a lot louder than Keatley has over the last two years (no offence to Keatley, there is just more competition at 10), so if I was going to make a change I would make it in a place where we have the biggest drop off in experience if someone is to get injured.

If Reddan for whatever reason, form or injury , is not going to be in the final squad in the World Cup, I'd want Marmion to have more game time under his belt than a Wolfhounds game and two cameos against the Argentine B. This game is the perfect opportunity. He has a great eye for the gap, is pretty nippy, and offers a very different threat to Reddan.

I see no sense at all in picking Bowe v Georgia. Back 3 of Zebo, Gilroy and Jones.

Marshes wrote:I agree with that team Pete, good rotation, but for me I'd want the change at SH. I think Marmion has been knocking on the door a lot louder than Keatley has over the last two years (no offence to Keatley, there is just more competition at 10)

Marmion is a scrum half (9) whereas Keatley is an out half (10).

GunsGerms wrote:I see no sense at all in picking Bowe v Georgia. Back 3 of Zebo, Gilroy and Jones.

Well one reason could be that both Zebo and Gilroy are primarily left wingers.

Not a very good reason I know but it is odd that Bowe in as far as I can see is the only right wing in the squad at the moment.

MunsterMac wrote:

Marshes wrote:I agree with that team Pete, good rotation, but for me I'd want the change at SH. I think Marmion has been knocking on the door a lot louder than Keatley has over the last two years (no offence to Keatley, there is just more competition at 10)

Marmion is a scrum half (9) whereas Keatley is an out half (10).

GunsGerms wrote:I see no sense at all in picking Bowe v Georgia. Back 3 of Zebo, Gilroy and Jones.

Well one reason could be that both Zebo and Gilroy are primarily left wingers.

Not a very good reason I know but it is odd that Bowe in as far as I can see is the only right wing in the squad at the moment.

MunsterMac I think you misread me, have a look again, I know Marmion is a 9 and Keatley is a 10. I meant that if we are rotating, the case for Marmion's inclusion at 9 is for me stronger than Keatleys at 10 on the basis of the threats they offer and the respective competition in those positions (I wouldn't rotate both in as that would be too much change). I been impressed with Keatley this year, but I think there is more depth at FH than SH.

Fair enough Marshes but I think my misread was understandable.

MunsterMac wrote:

Marshes wrote:I agree with that team Pete, good rotation, but for me I'd want the change at SH. I think Marmion has been knocking on the door a lot louder than Keatley has over the last two years (no offence to Keatley, there is just more competition at 10)

Marmion is a scrum half (9) whereas Keatley is an out half (10).

GunsGerms wrote:I see no sense at all in picking Bowe v Georgia. Back 3 of Zebo, Gilroy and Jones.

Well one reason could be that both Zebo and Gilroy are primarily left wingers.

Not a very good reason I know but it is odd that Bowe in as far as I can see is the only right wing in the squad at the moment.

Didnt Gilroy stary on the other wing for Ireland before? I dont think it is too difficult to change wings anyway.

Pick Guns he's brilliant. I believe you made the top 50 in Ireland Guns...spoofers that is

Didnt Gilroy stary on the other wing for Ireland before? I dont think it is too difficult to change wings anyway.

As I said not a very good reason. I have Jones, Zebo and Gilroy as my back 3 further up the tread as well.

ME-109 wrote:Pick Guns he's brilliant. I believe you made the top 50 in Ireland Guns...spoofers that is

I was too soft to make the best teams that I played for. Tackled like Rog and kept getting injured.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Pick Guns he's brilliant. I believe you made the top 50 in Ireland Guns...spoofers that is

I was too soft to make the best teams that I played for. Tackled like Rog and kept getting injured.

or was that like Jaimie last weekend?

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Pick Guns he's brilliant. I believe you made the top 50 in Ireland Guns...spoofers that is

I was too soft to make the best teams that I played for. Tackled like Rog and kept getting injured.

or was that like Jaimie last weekend?

Sorry I mean Zeebs

Poite likes soft players. You would have had a good game against SA, Guns.

Michael Bradley is Georgia's assistant coach. Interesting stuff here about rugby in Georgia.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/bradley-going-extra-mile-to-help-georgia-reach-top-table-30734442.html

SecretFly wrote:Poite likes soft players.  You would have had a good game against SA, Guns.

Eh I dont think so. Still waiting for that call from Schmidt you never know a day might come when the bench all gets ebola and Schmidt needs volunteers from the crowd. Ill be the first to volunteer.......not.

Very impressed that Georgia has a 10 team pro league.

Just heard update on Newstalk:

Still a mystery what afflicted Henry on Saturday morning it seems. He got a migraine and several other symptoms and is a doubt for Georgia.

Rory Best is recovering but probably won't be risked with Australia in mind.

Payne is to have another scan tomorrow on his foot.

Only having the scan tomorrow? Reckon that puts him out for the Georgia game so, Joe likes to have his starting XV practicing as the XV for the week before the game. Tended to be the reason why so many players with a knock but assessed fit mid-week would end up on the bench.

Sounds like Georgia have about 50-60 minutes in them. If you were only going to play Ross or McGrath for 30-40 minutes, would it not be smarter to get the game time under their belts off the bench when they are up against tiring bodies?

My hope for this game, irrespective of the players wearing the jerseys, is for Ireland to play to a set gameplan. They need to improve the lineout and scrum. Play in the correct parts of the field. Don't be afraid to trust themselves and take a gap when they see it. And hopefully sprinkle some trick plays into procedings.

When at Leinster (and I don't want this to be a how great are Leinster comment, just a Joe mindset comment) Joe would take a couple of his set plays for a major fixture and try them match speed once (maybe even twice) during the game in the preceding week to have them run at match speed in proper match situation. It's interesting to keep an eye out for those plays. The play mightn't even work against a Georgia side because of their makeup but they will run them anyway but not enough times for it to be obvious that it is practice for next week (could be lineout, could be base of ruck, could first phase).

I want to see Henshaw again in the centres. It will be interesting after the AIs how he plays back at Connacht, same goes for a lot of the wider squad players.

Schmidt isn't preparing for Australia - he's preparing for the RWC. This is probably the only game left where he has the luxury of looking at a player or combination with little pressure on the performance. He shouldn't be planning to play any player who is likely to be involved with Australia, unless they need match fitness.

Georgia are probably going to be a challenge up front so therefore it is the best game to test the pack reserves, and the main lessons will be learnt there.
Kilcoyne (bench Cronin) - These two players are effectively against each other for the third Loosehead spot in the RWC squad, so this is a chance to compare and contrast
Strauss (bench Best) - Strauss needs pitchtime as does Best. If Rory isn't fit then Cronin on the bench
Ah You (bench Archer) - Ross got all the workout he needed so it's time to see if the back-ups are any good.
Foley, McCarthy (bench Diack) - If Schmidt hopes to have a cut at the RWC he needs to see if squad players can manage these smaller teams without flogging the stalwarts all the time. If Diack is going to be in the squad at all it has to be as a lock/backrow hybrid.
Ruddock, Henry if fit/O'Donnell, POM (c) (bench TOD/Ryan) - who is the back up 8 if Heaslip gets injured and Copeland not in the squad?


Reddan (bench Marmion)
Madigan (bench Keatley)
Zebo
Olding
Henshaw
Gilroy
Jones (bench Leader)

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Poite likes soft players.  You would have had a good game against SA, Guns.

Eh I dont think so. Still waiting for that call from Schmidt you never know a day might come when the bench all gets ebola and Schmidt needs volunteers from the crowd. Ill be the first to volunteer.......not.

That is almost exactly the recurring dream I have the night before I go to see a live test match. Usually not an Ebola outbreak though. It's mostly that the coach hears a rumour that I am somewhere in the crowd and the tannoy anouncer anounces (as he does) that my services are required. I'm usually to be found at the very highest tier and am passed down very carefully by the crowd from tier to tier and delivered to pitch where I have magically (it is a dream) changed into full rugby kit.

Second only in frequency to the one where I have a full head of long flowing blond hair and I experiment with side partings, dreadlocks and a ponytail.

Gotta love the cheese sandwich effect before bed.

The Great Aukster wrote:Schmidt isn't preparing for Australia - he's preparing for the RWC. This is probably the only game left where he has the luxury of looking at a player or combination with little pressure on the performance. He shouldn't be planning to play any player who is likely to be involved with Australia, unless they need match fitness.

Respectfull, thats really... No, I don't think so. Whats the point in playing a complete second XV? If we bring in fringe players, we only learn about them if they can combine with players who are first XV. A full second XV teaches us very little. Mixing both is best for both the long and short term.

We have an A game before the Six Nations to do what you've suggested as well as all our RWC warm-up games.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Only having the scan tomorrow? Reckon that puts him out for the Georgia game so, Joe likes to have his starting XV practicing as the XV for the week before the game.  Tended to be the reason why so many players with a knock but assessed fit mid-week would end up on the bench.

Sounds like Georgia have about 50-60 minutes in them.  If you were only going to play Ross or McGrath for 30-40 minutes, would it not be smarter to get the game time under their belts off the bench when they are up against tiring bodies?

My hope for this game, irrespective of the players wearing the jerseys, is for Ireland to play to a set gameplan.  They need to improve the lineout and scrum. Play in the correct parts of the field. Don't be afraid to trust themselves and take a gap when they see it. And hopefully sprinkle some trick plays into procedings.

When at Leinster (and I don't want this to be a how great are Leinster comment, just a Joe mindset comment) Joe would take a couple of his set plays for a major fixture and try them match speed once (maybe even twice) during the game in the preceding week to have them run at match speed in proper match situation.  It's interesting to keep an eye out for those plays.  The play mightn't even work against a Georgia side because of their makeup but they will run them anyway but not enough times for it to be obvious that it is practice for next week (could be lineout, could be base of ruck, could first phase).

I want to see Henshaw again in the centres.  It will be interesting after the AIs how he plays back at Connacht, same goes for a lot of the wider squad players.

This is a great little post!!!!

One of the lads on my rugby team is a coach and went to a coaching seminar thing which Joe was at.
He was astounded about the stuff Joe was saying.
Joe works out that team X will work out how he attacks and set their defense based around that, for the big games he will then change the patterns of attack or focal points.

This is quite like what you're saying in a way, using games as preparation, be it setting a team up for a fall or rehearsing certain things. I am and was convinced at the time that the moves we pulled off against Italy last year were definitely for the benefit of France. That screen pass loop play was used lots against Italy and got us two tries, it didn't feature too often against France.

Very intelligent dude, we have on board.

Notch wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Schmidt isn't preparing for Australia - he's preparing for the RWC. This is probably the only game left where he has the luxury of looking at a player or combination with little pressure on the performance. He shouldn't be planning to play any player who is likely to be involved with Australia, unless they need match fitness.

Respectfull, thats really... No, I don't think so. Whats the point in playing a complete second XV? If we bring in fringe players, we only learn about them if they can combine with players who are first XV. A full second XV teaches us very little. Mixing both is best for both the long and short term.

We have an A game before the Six Nations to do what you've suggested as well as all our RWC warm-up games.

I'm with Notch here.

Not much good seeing how Kilcoyne-Strauss-Ah You play like as they will rarely if ever play together again. However Kilcoyne-Strauss-Ross (who definitely needs gametime still) could work I think.

Toner and Foley makes sense as McCarthy probably won't touch the RWC where as Foley may if things go jubblies up.

Getting POM playing with 2 others of Ruddock,TOD, Ryan is best. Agree that finding a Heaslip part 2 is important just in case those testosterone levels aren't enough to prevent an injury.


BUT

If you want experience and a newbie then what do you do with halfbacks???
Do you play your experienced 10 with a new 9 or do you play your experienced 9 with a new 10????

That is a MASSIVE question I think. Murray and Sexton are so far ahead of the rest it's not funny, so what do you do about bringing through backups. Madigan has time but not much at 10, Keatley could do, Marmion has huge potential, we know Reddan well at this stage.

Questions, questions, questions.....

Golden wrote:Schmidt seems to really like Jones, even when he wasnt playing well he was in his Irish squads, so I'd imagine he'll get a game.

15. Jones
14. Bowe
13. Henshaw
12. Olding
11. Zebo
10. Madigan
 9. Marmion

 8. Heaslip
 7. TOD
 6. Ruddock
 5. McCarthy
 4. Toner
 3. Ross
 2. Best (Strauss)
 1. McGrath

16. Cronin 17. Kilkoyne 18. Ah You 19. Foley 20. Diack 21. Reddan 22. Keatley 23. Gilroy

If Paynes fit I'd leave the centres as they were and drop Olding to the bench.

Ross needs the game time and a match against a big scrummaging side could be good for McGrath.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Darcy feature if he's fit.

This, this is the team I would like to see.