Ireland v Georgia Sunday 16th

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon 10 Nov 2014, 3:20 am

First topic message reminder :

Hi all,

Feel like this post can go up now that the dust is starting to settle on what was a very good win at the weekend.
Plenty of positives to take including the effective defense, the tenuous breakdown work and excellent control from the halfbacks. Some things could still be considered work ons including our attack with ball in hand, lineout and scrum.

Georgia, with all due respect, should be an easy game (echoes of 2007). Tonga beat them 23-6. Georgia failed to score a point in the second half and all of Tonga's tries came in the final 20minutes. Without wanting to sound too simplistic, it would appear as if Georgia are quite unfit albeit very physical while still on their feet. As a developed playing nation we should benefit from a number of things but the main one should be organisation and preparation. I am expecting a 100% return from our lineout, some later success in securing turnovers and our defensive shape to hold firm.

To put it bluntly, I don't believe that Georgia have any right scoring a point against us.............................with all due respect.

Injuries still account for a fair bit of our squad, other than the original cast who were down and out we have possibly lost Payne for this one, Best may be back, Henry should be back if it was just a virus and Darcy should be available also.

Any game day news, predictions, wish-lists etc pop it down below.
Much love,
Pete

by SecretFly Wed 12 Nov 2014, 11:06 am

The only problem for Joe in the theory that opponent B is watching how his side plays against opponent A, and that he then likes to surprise opponent B with a different style or different moves..... well, the only problem is you won't fool Cheika with too many tricks - whether they're one, two or three steps ahead in counter-intuitive planning. Cheika will be playing the same games with his crowd and his mind.
So it'll be fun............... nervous fun........... but if Schmidt bluffs Cheika I'll be seriously impressed.

How does the guy sleep a night? 'Now if I do this that week, they might think I'm trying to make them think I'm going to do something different the following week, so if I actually go ahead and repeat it the following week, I might double bluff. But maybe they're thinking that's what I'm going to do - attempt a double bluff..........'

Joe is a bastard. He's using the poor Irish players as bloody cheap chess pieces. That's why he doesn't want any Zebo flare. You can't have chess pieces moving themselves.

by Marshes Wed 12 Nov 2014, 11:27 am

SecretFly wrote:The only problem for Joe in the theory that opponent B is watching how his side plays against opponent A, and that he then likes to surprise opponent B with a different style or different moves..... well, the only problem is you won't fool Cheika with too many tricks - whether they're one, two or three steps ahead in counter-intuitive planning. Cheika will be playing the same games with his crowd and his mind.
So it'll be fun............... nervous fun........... but if Schmidt bluffs Cheika I'll be seriously impressed.

How does the guy sleep a night? 'Now if I do this that week, they might think I'm trying to make them think I'm going to do something different the following week, so if I actually go ahead and repeat it the following week, I might double bluff. But maybe they're thinking that's what I'm going to do - attempt a double bluff..........'

Joe is a bastard. He's using the poor Irish players as bloody cheap chess pieces. That's why he doesn't want any Zebo flare. You can't have chess pieces moving themselves.

Story checks out. D. Kearney does make as many yards as a pawn.

by Mickado Wed 12 Nov 2014, 11:43 am

Marshes wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The only problem for Joe in the theory that opponent B is watching how his side plays against opponent A, and that he then likes to surprise opponent B with a different style or different moves..... well, the only problem is you won't fool Cheika with too many tricks - whether they're one, two or three steps ahead in counter-intuitive planning. Cheika will be playing the same games with his crowd and his mind.
So it'll be fun............... nervous fun........... but if Schmidt bluffs Cheika I'll be seriously impressed.

How does the guy sleep a night? 'Now if I do this that week, they might think I'm trying to make them think I'm going to do something different the following week, so if I actually go ahead and repeat it the following week, I might double bluff. But maybe they're thinking that's what I'm going to do - attempt a double bluff..........'

Joe is a bastard. He's using the poor Irish players as bloody cheap chess pieces. That's why he doesn't want any Zebo flare. You can't have chess pieces moving themselves.

Story checks out. D. Kearney does make as many yards as a pawn.

Well it was a close contest but the award for the most laboured simile of the year goes to...

by ME-109 Wed 12 Nov 2014, 11:44 am

Marshes wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The only problem for Joe in the theory that opponent B is watching how his side plays against opponent A, and that he then likes to surprise opponent B with a different style or different moves..... well, the only problem is you won't fool Cheika with too many tricks - whether they're one, two or three steps ahead in counter-intuitive planning. Cheika will be playing the same games with his crowd and his mind.
So it'll be fun............... nervous fun........... but if Schmidt bluffs Cheika I'll be seriously impressed.

How does the guy sleep a night? 'Now if I do this that week, they might think I'm trying to make them think I'm going to do something different the following week, so if I actually go ahead and repeat it the following week, I might double bluff. But maybe they're thinking that's what I'm going to do - attempt a double bluff..........'

Joe is a bastard. He's using the poor Irish players as bloody cheap chess pieces. That's why he doesn't want any Zebo flare. You can't have chess pieces moving themselves.

Story checks out. D. Kearney does make as many yards as a pawn.

Feic it Marshes I almost injured myself from laughing.... Ireland v Georgia Sunday 16th - Page 2 3933776953

by SecretFly Wed 12 Nov 2014, 11:50 am

oh sorry...I diverted the serious lads from their work.

Back to who should be left wing.......................

by Submachine Wed 12 Nov 2014, 11:55 am

SecretFly wrote:oh sorry...I diverted the serious lads from their work.

Back to who should be left wing.......................

The Irish Goverment after the next election

by SecretFly Wed 12 Nov 2014, 12:06 pm

Oh don't start that one, Sub! I think a few Kiwis might be the best option to buy in and do that job for us too.

"Yis have ta'pay, Lads. Yis can't be drinkin' without payin'!"
"But we've no money left in our pokittzes to pay, m'Teeshock, sir. Do you want us to do an internship as bank robbers?"

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 12 Nov 2014, 12:54 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:Only having the scan tomorrow? Reckon that puts him out for the Georgia game so, Joe likes to have his starting XV practicing as the XV for the week before the game. Tended to be the reason why so many players with a knock but assessed fit mid-week would end up on the bench.

Sounds like Georgia have about 50-60 minutes in them. If you were only going to play Ross or McGrath for 30-40 minutes, would it not be smarter to get the game time under their belts off the bench when they are up against tiring bodies?

My hope for this game, irrespective of the players wearing the jerseys, is for Ireland to play to a set gameplan. They need to improve the lineout and scrum. Play in the correct parts of the field. Don't be afraid to trust themselves and take a gap when they see it. And hopefully sprinkle some trick plays into procedings.

When at Leinster (and I don't want this to be a how great are Leinster comment, just a Joe mindset comment) Joe would take a couple of his set plays for a major fixture and try them match speed once (maybe even twice) during the game in the preceding week to have them run at match speed in proper match situation. It's interesting to keep an eye out for those plays. The play mightn't even work against a Georgia side because of their makeup but they will run them anyway but not enough times for it to be obvious that it is practice for next week (could be lineout, could be base of ruck, could first phase).

I want to see Henshaw again in the centres. It will be interesting after the AIs how he plays back at Connacht, same goes for a lot of the wider squad players.

This is a great little post!!!!

One of the lads on my rugby team is a coach and went to a coaching seminar thing which Joe was at.
He was astounded about the stuff Joe was saying.
Joe works out that team X will work out how he attacks and set their defense based around that, for the big games he will then change the patterns of attack or focal points.

This is quite like what you're saying in a way, using games as preparation, be it setting a team up for a fall or rehearsing certain things. I am and was convinced at the time that the moves we pulled off against Italy last year were definitely for the benefit of France. That screen pass loop play was used lots against Italy and got us two tries, it didn't feature too often against France.

Very intelligent dude, we have on board.

There was an interesting comment from a BOD article during his final season where he talked about taking his own highlights into the video room with the analysts and reviewing them to see if he was becoming too predictable. Suppose it is the natural evolution of things that once detailed analysis is adopted by all teams, a certain amount of mis-information is then sprinkled in the data to try and confuse the geeks on their laptops!

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 12 Nov 2014, 1:23 pm

Copeland, Cave, Conway and Furlong have been drafted into squad.

Probably will just hold tackle bags for the week.

I can understand Cave in with Payne taking the knock. How was POM going off the field, I assume he is the 8 cover for Heaslip so with Copeland in they must have a hesitation on either POM or Henry right? Thought Ross had a great game, are they putting him in cotton wool for Georgia game with Furlong taking the bench spot. Is Rob feeling a bit of pain to say an extra back 3 player has been drafted in?

by MunsterMac Wed 12 Nov 2014, 4:03 pm

According to Gavin Cummiskey in the IT the Irish team will be along the following lines;

1- Kilcoyne
2 - Strauss
3 - Ross
4 - Toner
5 - Foley
6 - Ruddock
7 - TOD
8 - Heaslip
9 - Reddan
10 - Madigan
11 - Gilroy
12 - D'Arcy
13 - Henshaw
14 - Zebo
15 - Jones

He also expects Keatley, Olding, McGrath, Cronin, and Ryan to be on the bench.

by SecretFly Wed 12 Nov 2014, 4:24 pm

Gavin is the Times new Insider? Poor Thornley... he seems to have dropped his Crystal BOD (I mean Ball)

by GoodinTightSpaces Wed 12 Nov 2014, 4:52 pm

MunsterMac wrote:According to Gavin Cummiskey in the IT the Irish team will be along the following lines;

1- Kilcoyne
2 - Strauss
3 - Ross
4 - Toner
5 - Foley
6 - Ruddock
7 - TOD
8 - Heaslip
9 - Reddan
10 - Madigan
11 - Gilroy
12 - D'Arcy
13 - Henshaw
14 - Zebo
15 - Jones

He also expects Keatley, Olding, McGrath, Cronin, and Ryan to be on the bench.

id be very happy to see that team. would be good to see mariman get a run

by Sin é Wed 12 Nov 2014, 5:04 pm

It will be surprising if Zebo is on the right wing (bearing in mind his left boot).

I saw somewhere that Luke Fitz has been sent back to Leinster (though I think all the provinces have a down week). I just hope to god Luke is ok.

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 12 Nov 2014, 5:40 pm

Sin é wrote:It will be surprising if Zebo is on the right wing (bearing in mind his left boot).

I saw somewhere that Luke Fitz has been sent back to Leinster (though I think all the provinces have a down week). I just hope to god Luke is ok.

So Luke being sent back is why Conway is called up? That would make sense but only if Luke has a knock.

by Marshes Wed 12 Nov 2014, 5:41 pm

Good to see Tommy O Donnell getting a start in there (if this is correct). Would have preferred Marmion and Olding getting the start, but hopefully they will get a run out aswell.

by gleesonisgod Wed 12 Nov 2014, 6:54 pm

Marshes wrote:Good to see Tommy O Donnell getting a start in there (if this is correct). Would have preferred Marmion and Olding getting the start, but hopefully they will get a run out aswell.

Ye would love to know what Schmidt's reasoning is for certain selections. Marmion's been at a different level this season to Reddan and Olding with a bit of game time will probably surpass Darce who I hope is not our 12 come the WC.

by The Great Aukster Wed 12 Nov 2014, 9:11 pm

SecretFly wrote:oh sorry...I diverted the serious lads from their work.

Back to who should be left wing.......................

Isn't the current guy a pawn star?

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Thu 13 Nov 2014, 3:49 am

I'd be happy with Cumisky's team, I just hope Marmion gets in somewhere. He is a better player than Reddan I think at provincial level, he needs to show us he can cut it at the next level up.

by **George Carlin** Thu 13 Nov 2014, 6:33 am

Just thought it was interesting to see where each member of the Georgian squad plays:

#	Name	Club	DOB	CAP

BACKS

15	Merab KVIRIKASHVILI	Montlucon FRA	1983	77	11T 100C 96PT 3DG [552P]
15	Beka TSIKLAURI	Locomotive RC	1989	16	T 8C 12PT 2DG [63P]
15	Giorgi APTSIAURI	AIA RC	1994	0	:
14/11	Irakli MACHKHANELI	Armazi RC	1981	72	24T [12 CAP]
14/11	Tamaz Mchedlidze	Agen FRA	1993	18	4T
14/11	Muraz GIORGADZE	Armazi RC	1994	2	T
13/12	David KACHARAVA	Enisei RUS	1985	73	14T [2 CAP]
13/12	Sandro TODUA	Lelo Saracens	1987	42	3T
13/12	Meran SHARIKADZE	Aurilliac FRA	1993	25	7T [1 CAP]
10	Lasha MALAGURADZE	Stad Bagnerais FRA	1986	49	3T 24C 20PN 3DG [132P]
10	Lasha KHMALADZE	Lelo Saracens	1988	31	3T
9	Giorgi BEGADZE	Kochebi RC	1986	25	:
9	Vazha KHUTSISHVILI	Kharebi RC	1993	11	:

FORWARDS

1	Mikheil NARIASHVILI	Montpellier FRA	1990	18	T
1	Zurab ZHVANIA	Stade France FRA	1991	10	2T
2	Simon MAISURADZE	Valence FRA	1986	25	:
2	Shalva MAMUKASHVILI	Sale Sharks ENG	1990	24	2T
3	Dudu KUBRIASHVILI	Stade France FRA	1986	35	2T
3	Levan CHILACHAVA	Toulon FRA	1991	15	3T
4/5	Levan DATUNASHVILI	Aurilliac FRA	1983	61	3T
4/5	Giorgi NEMSADZE	Tarbes FRA	1984	41	7T
4/5	Kote MIKAUTADZE	Toulon FRA	1991	23	T
4/5	Lasha LOMIDZE	Beziers FRA	1992	4	:
4-8	Giorgi CHKHAIDZE	Lille FRA	1981	75	10T [1 CAP]
6/7	Vito KOLELISHVILI	Clermont FRA	1989	28	3T
6/7	Giorgi TKHILAISHVILI	Batumi RC	1991	13	T
8	Dimitri BASILAIA	Perpignan FRA	1985	35	6T
8	Beka BITSADZE	Locomotive RC	1991	9	T

So I'm just guessing the team's strength is in the pack. Very Happy

by Mickado Thu 13 Nov 2014, 10:44 am

George Carlin wrote:Just thought it was interesting to see where each member of the Georgian squad plays:

#
Name
Club
DOB
CAP
BACKS
15
Merab KVIRIKASHVILI Montlucon FRA
1983
77
11T 100C 96PT 3DG [552P]
15
Beka TSIKLAURI Locomotive RC
1989
16
T 8C 12PT 2DG [63P]
15
Giorgi APTSIAURI AIA RC
1994
0
:
14/11
Irakli MACHKHANELI Armazi RC
1981
72
24T [12 CAP]
14/11
Tamaz Mchedlidze Agen FRA
1993
18
4T
14/11
Muraz GIORGADZE Armazi RC
1994
2
T
13/12
David KACHARAVA Enisei RUS
1985
73
14T [2 CAP]
13/12
Sandro TODUA Lelo Saracens
1987
42
3T
13/12
Meran SHARIKADZE Aurilliac FRA
1993
25
7T [1 CAP]
10
Lasha MALAGURADZE Stad Bagnerais FRA
1986
49
3T 24C 20PN 3DG [132P]
10
Lasha KHMALADZE Lelo Saracens
1988
31
3T
9
Giorgi BEGADZE Kochebi RC
1986
25
:
9
Vazha KHUTSISHVILI Kharebi RC
1993
11
:
FORWARDS
1
Mikheil NARIASHVILI Montpellier FRA
1990
18
T
1
Zurab ZHVANIA Stade France FRA
1991
10
2T
2
Simon MAISURADZE Valence FRA
1986
25
:
2
Shalva MAMUKASHVILI Sale Sharks ENG
1990
24
2T
3
Dudu KUBRIASHVILI Stade France FRA
1986
35
2T
3
Levan CHILACHAVA Toulon FRA
1991
15
3T
4/5
Levan DATUNASHVILI Aurilliac FRA
1983
61
3T
4/5
Giorgi NEMSADZE Tarbes FRA
1984
41
7T
4/5
Kote MIKAUTADZE Toulon FRA
1991
23
T
4/5
Lasha LOMIDZE Beziers FRA
1992
4
:
4-8
Giorgi CHKHAIDZE Lille FRA
1981
75
10T [1 CAP]
6/7
Vito KOLELISHVILI Clermont FRA
1989
28
3T
6/7
Giorgi TKHILAISHVILI Batumi RC
1991
13
T
8
Dimitri BASILAIA Perpignan FRA
1985
35
6T
8
Beka BITSADZE Locomotive RC
1991
9
T
So I'm just guessing the team's strength is in the pack.

Here's a list of all Georgian players playing in the big leagues around Europe, 44 in total, only TWO backs!!!

http://tier2rugby.blogspot.nl/2014/10/players-from-tier-2-nations-playing-in.html

by GunsGerms Thu 13 Nov 2014, 10:51 am

Sin é wrote:It will be surprising if Zebo is on the right wing (bearing in mind his left boot).

I saw somewhere that Luke Fitz has been sent back to Leinster (though I think all the provinces have a down week). I just hope to god Luke is ok.

Fitz is a write off at this stage. I wouldnt be surprised if he never plays again for Ireland. Always injured, always botching try scoring ops, with just two tries in 27 games he is one of our least potent wingers/backs ever.

by ME-109 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 10:51 am

More analysis from The Score for last weekends game....very good as usual.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/analysis-ireland-south-africa-rucks-1776408-Nov2014/?utm_source=shortlink

by Sin é Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:06 am

GunsGerms wrote:
Sin é wrote:It will be surprising if Zebo is on the right wing (bearing in mind his left boot).

I saw somewhere that Luke Fitz has been sent back to Leinster (though I think all the provinces have a down week). I just hope to god Luke is ok.

Fitz is a write off at this stage. I wouldnt be surprised if he never plays again for Ireland. Always injured, always botching try scoring ops, with just two tries in 27 games he is one of our least potent wingers/backs ever.

His finishing is poor for a winger, but I think he would make an excellent centre.

by GunsGerms Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:55 am

I dont. Doesnt have the required composure nor rugby brain to play in the centre. Id say he is a coaches worst nightmare.

by Sin é Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:56 am

ME-109 wrote:More analysis from The Score for last weekends game....very good as usual.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/analysis-ireland-south-africa-rucks-1776408-Nov2014/?utm_source=shortlink

Looks like Bowe & Kearney will need to sort out the 'Ruck Resourcing' from that Smile

Zebo - tops the list with the 6 effective.

8 Mike Ross – 1 dominant, 5 effective, 2 guards

7 Paul O’Connell – 4 effective, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Peter O’Mahony – 1 dominant, 3 guard, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Jack McGrath – 5 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

6 Jamie Heaslip – 2 effective, 2 guard, 2 present

6 Simon Zebo – 6 effective

5 Rhys Ruddock – 3 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

2 Robbie Henshaw – 2 effective

2 Tommy Bowe – 1 effective, 1 ineffective

2 Rob Kearney – 1 guard, 1 ineffective

by SecretFly Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:13 pm

Oh hello!!!! A new word to play with!

Effective.

Yeah, he may have the world record for lowest centre of gavity, he may have exception positional instincts, he may have pace to burn, he may be a good breakdown beagle..................... but does he got Effectiveness numbers to back it all up?

Oh, I can see the future - and it's degrees of computerised 'effectiveness', 'guardedness, 'presentfulness' and tigerish 'dominance'. Lovely.

by Submachine Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:16 pm

Sin é wrote:
ME-109 wrote:More analysis from The Score for last weekends game....very good as usual.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/analysis-ireland-south-africa-rucks-1776408-Nov2014/?utm_source=shortlink

Looks like Bowe & Kearney will need to sort out the 'Ruck Resourcing' from that

Zebo - tops the list with the 6 effective.

8 Mike Ross – 1 dominant, 5 effective, 2 guards

7 Paul O’Connell – 4 effective, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Peter O’Mahony – 1 dominant, 3 guard, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Jack McGrath – 5 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

6 Jamie Heaslip – 2 effective, 2 guard, 2 present

6 Simon Zebo – 6 effective

5 Rhys Ruddock – 3 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

2 Robbie Henshaw – 2 effective

2 Tommy Bowe – 1 effective, 1 ineffective

2 Rob Kearney – 1 guard, 1 ineffective

Have you only quoted the stats where the player was second to the ruck? To be fair to Zebo, he did get stuck in on the day. Sort out his front on tackling and he's nearly there.

by ME-109 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:23 pm

Submachine wrote:
Sin é wrote:
ME-109 wrote:More analysis from The Score for last weekends game....very good as usual.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/analysis-ireland-south-africa-rucks-1776408-Nov2014/?utm_source=shortlink

Looks like Bowe & Kearney will need to sort out the 'Ruck Resourcing' from that

Zebo - tops the list with the 6 effective.

8 Mike Ross – 1 dominant, 5 effective, 2 guards

7 Paul O’Connell – 4 effective, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Peter O’Mahony – 1 dominant, 3 guard, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Jack McGrath – 5 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

6 Jamie Heaslip – 2 effective, 2 guard, 2 present

6 Simon Zebo – 6 effective

5 Rhys Ruddock – 3 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

2 Robbie Henshaw – 2 effective

2 Tommy Bowe – 1 effective, 1 ineffective

2 Rob Kearney – 1 guard, 1 ineffective

Have you only quoted the stats where the player was second to the ruck? To be fair to Zebo, he did get stuck in on the day. Sort out his front on tackling and he's nearly there.

For a second there I thought you were talking about Heaslip (poor on his rucking stats as well tut tut). So its front on tackling now....what next...stop attempting to score tries? Stop making hard yards? Stop being a winger ffs.

by SecretFly Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:26 pm

I don't see Sexton or Murray on any of those stats? Those two must have had a bad game Wink

Redden and Madigan really need to be given a chance or this team is going nowhere fast.

by Sin é Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:27 pm

I just did a tot of Zebo's tackles in his last 3 internationals:

Zebo: 9/1 4/0 2/1 = 15/2
Trimble: 5/3 1/0 Bowe: 5/2 = 11/5

Out of those stats, his tackling is better than the other wingers.

by SecretFly Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:28 pm

So thank Joe for making a man out of him Wink

by Submachine Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:29 pm

ME-109 wrote:
Submachine wrote:
Sin é wrote:
ME-109 wrote:More analysis from The Score for last weekends game....very good as usual.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/analysis-ireland-south-africa-rucks-1776408-Nov2014/?utm_source=shortlink

Looks like Bowe & Kearney will need to sort out the 'Ruck Resourcing' from that

Zebo - tops the list with the 6 effective.

8 Mike Ross – 1 dominant, 5 effective, 2 guards

7 Paul O’Connell – 4 effective, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Peter O’Mahony – 1 dominant, 3 guard, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Jack McGrath – 5 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

6 Jamie Heaslip – 2 effective, 2 guard, 2 present

6 Simon Zebo – 6 effective

5 Rhys Ruddock – 3 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

2 Robbie Henshaw – 2 effective

2 Tommy Bowe – 1 effective, 1 ineffective

2 Rob Kearney – 1 guard, 1 ineffective

Have you only quoted the stats where the player was second to the ruck? To be fair to Zebo, he did get stuck in on the day. Sort out his front on tackling and he's nearly there.

For a second there I thought you were talking about Heaslip (poor on his rucking stats as well tut tut). So its front on tackling now....what next...stop attempting to score tries? Stop making hard yards? Stop being a winger ffs.

You do seem to be a little hard of understanding at times. I've said several times I think Zebo's criticism in defense is mostly unwarrented. He covers well, executes side on tackles well but where he has been exposed is when an opponent is running straight for him, he gets stood up at times and is left flat footed. He doesn't lack bravery in the attempt, it's sorting his feet out and getting into a better position to make the tackle.

by Sin é Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:30 pm

SecretFly wrote:I don't see Sexton or Murray on any of those stats? Those two must have had a bad game
Redden and Madigan really need to be given a chance or this team is going nowhere fast.

Zebo's lack of 'ruck resourcing' was the reason apparently why he wasn't getting selected for Ireland.

by Submachine Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:33 pm

Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I don't see Sexton or Murray on any of those stats? Those two must have had a bad game
Redden and Madigan really need to be given a chance or this team is going nowhere fast.

Zebo's lack of 'ruck resourcing' was the reason apparently why he wasn't getting selected for Ireland.

Seems to have worked out for him.

by SecretFly Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:34 pm

Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I don't see Sexton or Murray on any of those stats? Those two must have had a bad game
Redden and Madigan really need to be given a chance or this team is going nowhere fast.

Zebo's lack of 'ruck resourcing' was the reason apparently why he wasn't getting selected for Ireland.

Thus the logic that if Joe is selecting him, it's improved (as stats show). Good man Zeebs, good man Joe. Tough love is getting there Wink

by Mickado Thu 13 Nov 2014, 1:40 pm

ME-109 wrote:More analysis from The Score for last weekends game....very good as usual.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/analysis-ireland-south-africa-rucks-1776408-Nov2014/?utm_source=shortlink

Really enjoyed that read, but not even slightly surprised that it's instantly being picked apart by anyone trying to prove themselves right.

by Sin é Thu 13 Nov 2014, 1:47 pm

Mickado wrote:
ME-109 wrote:More analysis from The Score for last weekends game....very good as usual.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/analysis-ireland-south-africa-rucks-1776408-Nov2014/?utm_source=shortlink

Really enjoyed that read, but not even slightly surprised that it's instantly being picked apart by anyone trying to prove themselves right.

I'm not sure who you are trying to have a dig at, but from the various internet fora, Zebo apparently was poor in the game making little or no contribution.

by SecretFly Thu 13 Nov 2014, 1:53 pm

Why worry about the doubters, Sin? Joe believes now and that's all that matters. Zebo is in and is holding his own. It doesn't matter what the sofa sitters say Wink

by Sin é Thu 13 Nov 2014, 1:58 pm

SecretFly wrote:Why worry about the doubters, Sin? Joe believes now and that's all that matters. Zebo is in and is holding his own. It doesn't matter what the sofa sitters say

Actually, I think its all a bit amusing. Joe's/IRFU handling of Zebo was a PR disaster outside a few white and blued eyed supporters. It should never have been allowed to become a personality thing.

by GunsGerms Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:10 pm

Zebo only has himself to blame for his own antics. To try an blame Zebo's poor attitude on Schmidt is weak logic.

Hopefully he has learned his lesson.

by SecretFly Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:12 pm

Every era has its 'fun' with personalities. How many famously infamous people say 'I'd prefer to be known and hated than ignored'.

What about O'Gara? - there was a personality battle - not only between him and his underling, Sexton (a lot of that media and social media induced too!) - but also at the latter stages, the O'Gara personality came into conflict with his old mentor. More fun for the media and the social media operators.

That's what sport always is - a mix of the actual sport and the extra fun of personality clashes and coaching dramas. Fans say tut tut at times bu,t really, the turth is that they enjoy the drama and the personality clashes and Cantona driving his boot into a supporter, and Keane ranting in a tunnel, and Mickelson's knife in the back (and front) of his Ryder Cup Captain etc, etc.
It's colour.
Schmidt coaches the way he wants to coach. He didn't rush to the media to tell them why he wasn't picking Zebo - they rushed his way and demanded news of "Why?", "How?", "You can't be serious?" And many of those mouths were Munster mouths and a good few of them were here in this place.
So who made it a personality thing? The people who didn't like the idea that Schmidt wasn't picking Zebo. They personalised it.

by Sin é Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:13 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Zebo only has himself to blame for his own antics. To try an blame Zebo's poor attitude on Schmidt is weak logic.

Hopefully he has learned his lesson.

It should never have gotten into the public arena. His Provincial Head coach should not have had to defend Zebo in public. It was a very poor PR move.

by SecretFly Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:20 pm

Sin é wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Zebo only has himself to blame for his own antics. To try an blame Zebo's poor attitude on Schmidt is weak logic.

Hopefully he has learned his lesson.

It should never have gotten into the public arena. His Provincial Head coach should not have had to defend Zebo in public. It was a very poor PR move.

How would that have happened? By forcing Schmidt to pick a player he didn't yet want to pick? That would have killed the growing curiosity, would have killed the direct questions put to Schmidt by the media, led by their social media press pack - they put the question, and if Schmidt is anything he's a resolutely clear unapologetic communicator of what he sees as the truth. So he gave a few details and the Provincial coach is 'forced' to 'defend' his player. Penny should have kept his mouth closed and say it was an Ireland camp issue. That's what would have kept a lid on it. But he chose to add to the media stuff.

There you go. More nice history for sports fans to go over and go over through the decades. Remember the big spat about Simon Zebo back at the beginning of the century? Wink

Ah yes, I do. It was fun times. As was the big BOD/Gatland meltdown. All fun.

by Sin é Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:22 pm

SecretFly wrote:Every era has its 'fun' with personalities. How many famously infamous people say 'I'd prefer to be known and hated than ignored'.

What about O'Gara? - there was a personality battle - not only between him and his underling, Sexton (a lot of that media and social media induced too!) - but also at the latter stages, the O'Gara personality came into conflict with his old mentor. More fun for the media and the social media operators.

Both Kidney & O'Gara kept their mouth's shut. The only one to have a few digs at Kidney is BOD who obviously never forgave him for a) walking away from Leinster and b) taking the captaincy from him.

Schmidt coaches the way he wants to coach. He didn't rush to the media to tell them why he wasn't picking Zebo - they rushed his way and demanded news of "Why?", "How?", "You can't be serious?" And many of those mouths were Munster mouths and a good few of them were here in this place.
So who made it a personality thing? The people who didn't like the idea that Schmidt wasn't picking Zebo. They personalised it.

You see, no one could understand why Zebo wasn't being picked. Don't forget, he was voted Ireland player of the Year the year before in a public vote (so the guy wasn't just popular down Munster way).

I do think it is extraordinary though that Penney made the comments about 'Tally Poppy Syndrome' about kiwis which was definately a shot a Schmidt.

Its informative how the IRFU PR people have tried to change the narrative of how Zebo had a few things to work on (like rucking and defence), when we all know that it was apparently Zebo being a bit casual about going to a meeting or something like that.

edit: one thing Schmidt still hasn't managed to get Zeebs to pull up his socks Very Happy

by Submachine Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:25 pm

Gas lads Munster folk.

Zebo plays in the last three test matches and you're still not happy.

You can always tell a Munster man. But you can't tell him much.

by ME-109 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:26 pm

Submachine wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Submachine wrote:
Sin é wrote:
ME-109 wrote:More analysis from The Score for last weekends game....very good as usual.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/analysis-ireland-south-africa-rucks-1776408-Nov2014/?utm_source=shortlink

Looks like Bowe & Kearney will need to sort out the 'Ruck Resourcing' from that

Zebo - tops the list with the 6 effective.

8 Mike Ross – 1 dominant, 5 effective, 2 guards

7 Paul O’Connell – 4 effective, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Peter O’Mahony – 1 dominant, 3 guard, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Jack McGrath – 5 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

6 Jamie Heaslip – 2 effective, 2 guard, 2 present

6 Simon Zebo – 6 effective

5 Rhys Ruddock – 3 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

2 Robbie Henshaw – 2 effective

2 Tommy Bowe – 1 effective, 1 ineffective

2 Rob Kearney – 1 guard, 1 ineffective

Have you only quoted the stats where the player was second to the ruck? To be fair to Zebo, he did get stuck in on the day. Sort out his front on tackling and he's nearly there.

For a second there I thought you were talking about Heaslip (poor on his rucking stats as well tut tut). So its front on tackling now....what next...stop attempting to score tries? Stop making hard yards? Stop being a winger ffs.

You do seem to be a little hard of understanding at times. I've said several times I think Zebo's criticism in defense is mostly unwarrented. He covers well, executes side on tackles well but where he has been exposed is when an opponent is running straight for him, he gets stood up at times and is left flat footed. He doesn't lack bravery in the attempt, it's sorting his feet out and getting into a better position to make the tackle.

I know you have an impressive view of yourself but I am not about to go back and read all your posts to dissect a soundbite based on some p1sspoor analysis of which you could make up about any player on the team.

by GunsGerms Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:29 pm

Dods on the warpath again.

by SecretFly Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:30 pm

There you go - Penny having a SHOT. Penny enjoying the ride of having a SHOT at a fellow Kiwi. Great stuff. You think he didn't enjoy having a SHOT?
So why didn't he keep his mouth closed and mind his own business? Did he help make it a 'bigger issue' for the fans that love the bite of the drama? Sure he did.
Should he apologise? No. It was entertainment.

Kidney keeps quiet, yes. Dignified nice man who is almost too nice for the sport he was in. O'Gara didn't though. You obviously missed a good few interviews where O'Gara has a SHOT at his mentor. Should he apologise for stirring? Nope. It's part of the game.

by Submachine Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:30 pm

ME-109 wrote:
Submachine wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Submachine wrote:
Sin é wrote:
ME-109 wrote:More analysis from The Score for last weekends game....very good as usual.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/analysis-ireland-south-africa-rucks-1776408-Nov2014/?utm_source=shortlink

Looks like Bowe & Kearney will need to sort out the 'Ruck Resourcing' from that

Zebo - tops the list with the 6 effective.

8 Mike Ross – 1 dominant, 5 effective, 2 guards

7 Paul O’Connell – 4 effective, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Peter O’Mahony – 1 dominant, 3 guard, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Jack McGrath – 5 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

6 Jamie Heaslip – 2 effective, 2 guard, 2 present

6 Simon Zebo – 6 effective

5 Rhys Ruddock – 3 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

2 Robbie Henshaw – 2 effective

2 Tommy Bowe – 1 effective, 1 ineffective

2 Rob Kearney – 1 guard, 1 ineffective

Have you only quoted the stats where the player was second to the ruck? To be fair to Zebo, he did get stuck in on the day. Sort out his front on tackling and he's nearly there.

For a second there I thought you were talking about Heaslip (poor on his rucking stats as well tut tut). So its front on tackling now....what next...stop attempting to score tries? Stop making hard yards? Stop being a winger ffs.

You do seem to be a little hard of understanding at times. I've said several times I think Zebo's criticism in defense is mostly unwarrented. He covers well, executes side on tackles well but where he has been exposed is when an opponent is running straight for him, he gets stood up at times and is left flat footed. He doesn't lack bravery in the attempt, it's sorting his feet out and getting into a better position to make the tackle.

I know you have an impressive view of yourself but I am not about to go back and read all your posts to dissect a soundbite based on some p1sspoor analysis of which you could make up about any player on the team.

Didn't ask you to. But just for kicks and giggles. Could you give an objective view of Zebo? Strengths and weaknesses? Or a are you so programmed not to see any faults in a Munster player that you believe he has no room for improvement in any area?

by ME-109 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:32 pm

Submachine wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Submachine wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Submachine wrote:
Sin é wrote:
ME-109 wrote:More analysis from The Score for last weekends game....very good as usual.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/analysis-ireland-south-africa-rucks-1776408-Nov2014/?utm_source=shortlink

Looks like Bowe & Kearney will need to sort out the 'Ruck Resourcing' from that

Zebo - tops the list with the 6 effective.

8 Mike Ross – 1 dominant, 5 effective, 2 guards

7 Paul O’Connell – 4 effective, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Peter O’Mahony – 1 dominant, 3 guard, 1 present, 2 ineffective

7 Jack McGrath – 5 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

6 Jamie Heaslip – 2 effective, 2 guard, 2 present

6 Simon Zebo – 6 effective

5 Rhys Ruddock – 3 effective, 1 guard, 1 ineffective

2 Robbie Henshaw – 2 effective

2 Tommy Bowe – 1 effective, 1 ineffective

2 Rob Kearney – 1 guard, 1 ineffective

Have you only quoted the stats where the player was second to the ruck? To be fair to Zebo, he did get stuck in on the day. Sort out his front on tackling and he's nearly there.

For a second there I thought you were talking about Heaslip (poor on his rucking stats as well tut tut). So its front on tackling now....what next...stop attempting to score tries? Stop making hard yards? Stop being a winger ffs.

You do seem to be a little hard of understanding at times. I've said several times I think Zebo's criticism in defense is mostly unwarrented. He covers well, executes side on tackles well but where he has been exposed is when an opponent is running straight for him, he gets stood up at times and is left flat footed. He doesn't lack bravery in the attempt, it's sorting his feet out and getting into a better position to make the tackle.

I know you have an impressive view of yourself but I am not about to go back and read all your posts to dissect a soundbite based on some p1sspoor analysis of which you could make up about any player on the team.

Didn't ask you to. But just for kicks and giggles. Could you give an objective view of Zebo? Strengths and weaknesses? Or a are you so programmed not to see any faults in a Munster player that you believe he has no room for improvement in any area?

Munster players have many faults (what player doesnt). However the reaction is to the usual poor arguments from the usual quarters.

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