2014 IRB player of the year

First topic message reminder :

The nominees have just been announced, only 1 of the 5 candidates is from the NH.

Julian Savea (NZ)
Willie Le Roux (SA)
Jonathan Sexton (Ire)
Brodie Retallick (NZ)
Duane Vermeulen (SA)

That's a pretty hot list and I find it difficult to pick just one. Good luck Sexton!

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Leinster 2 Munster 0

Wood was made IRB player was a win for Harlequins more than anything.

IRB wrote:IRB Player of the Year is an accolade awarded annually by the International Rugby Board. It is awarded to the player who is adjudged to have been the best performer in rugby union internationals in the preceding season, from January to the final test match of the year.

Of course, Woods 16 caps for munster made all the difference. They should make a musical about it in Limerick.

Woody was and still is a Munsterman just like Joe Schmidt will still be a kiwi if he wins the award that the only Irishman to do so is still a Munsterman, did, in 2009.

GunsGerms wrote:Do they love him because he made fools of the whole Bok team in Dublin in '04 or something?

We dont blame ROG for that , it was clever on his part and worth a go . We blame the silly ref who let the try stand after telling smit to talk to his players

Hard one for this year. Many good players and good performances. I don't see an individual stand-out performance by anyone. I find it a bit difficult to give it to Retallick. Not because he ain't Einstein, but because he reminds me of a less-likeable Jamie Cudmore.

Retallick for me: Uncompromising carrier of the ball - he always goes into contact 100%, solid lineout operator, for such a tall man he gets over the ball well and count the times he acts as a pivot of second/third phase ball. A class act.

doctor_grey wrote:Hard one for this year.  Many good players and good performances.  I don't see an individual stand-out performance by anyone.  I find it a bit difficult to give it to Retallick.  Not because he ain't Einstein, but because he reminds me of a less-likeable Jamie Cudmore.  

A less likeable Jamie Cudmore is possibly the human equivalent of ebola .. Retallick isn't that bad!

I would probably vote Retallick too .. what sways it for me is that he has outshone the consistently brilliant Whitelock, that's enough for me

Maybe it's the Michael Laws faux pas coming back to haunt him. But it's hardly an ebola like faux pas.

GunsGerms wrote:If we beat Oz Schmidt will be coach of the year. Win the six nations, win your summer tour and win the month of November. You cant ask for more than that.

Win The rugby Champion ship , Whitewash England , whitewash the north - I think the all blacks would beg to differ

Bullsbok wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:If we beat Oz Schmidt will be coach of the year. Win the six nations, win your summer tour and win the month of November. You cant ask for more than that.

Win The rugby Champion ship , Whitewash England , whitewash the north - I think the all blacks would beg to differ

All Blacks were the number one side last year and are still the number one side. Ireland went from 5th in the Six Nations in 2013 to being 1st this year.

Whilst the All Blacks continue to be impressive, Ireland have improved more in a short space of time and with a much smaller talent pool. I would actually argue the All Blacks have regressed- they had a perfect season in 2013, but they have drawn and lost in 2014. It's true the only way they could go is down after last year, and there's no debating that for them to maintain the same standard of excellence year after year is a great achievement in itself. All the same though, a coach who helps a great side remain great is probably on balance less impressive than a coach who turns a deeply mediocre and directionless team into a championship winning side.

The ABs lost one game and so have Ireland yet Ireland have progressed from second last in the six nations to champions so the ABs can beg to differ all they want Ireland has a better coach. Shame they turned down Irelands offer of a test this November.

GunsGerms wrote:The ABs lost one game and so have Ireland yet Ireland have progressed from second last in the six nations to champions so the ABs can beg to differ all they want Ireland has a better coach. Shame they turned down Irelands offer of a test this November.

Thats a weird assessment , the All blacks couldnt go higher even if they wanted to . And i dont understand how you can say Ireland has a better coach , thats subjective surely . The All blacks have played higher ranked opposition and won vs the Six Nations win and Tour against Argentina , win vs Boks .

Bullsbok wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:If we beat Oz Schmidt will be coach of the year. Win the six nations, win your summer tour and win the month of November. You cant ask for more than that.

Win The rugby Champion ship , Whitewash England , whitewash the north - I think the all blacks would beg to differ

Dunno, certainly Ireland's remaining results could make a difference. Ireland can't win the RC so winning the 6N must be considered on par at some level. AB's have lost ground from last year where Ireland will have gained, so in relative terms, Ireland had a better year.

Bullsbok wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:The ABs lost one game and so have Ireland yet Ireland have progressed from second last in the six nations to champions so the ABs can beg to differ all they want Ireland has a better coach. Shame they turned down Irelands offer of a test this November.

Thats a weird assessment , the All blacks couldnt go higher even if they wanted to . And i dont understand how you can say Ireland has a better coach , thats subjective surely . The All blacks have played higher ranked opposition and won vs the Six Nations win and Tour against Argentina , win vs Boks .

No way can Ireland be considered to have a better coach. Hansen has lost two tests in 40 since he took over and after this weekend will have introduced nearly 30 new players while maintaining a 90% win rate.

Schmidt hasn't done anywhere near any of that. he is still a work in progress.

But like Ireland for the team, Schmidt could win coach of the year because of the improvements he has made. And you can't dismiss one coaches team results yet use them as an argument elsewhere. A coach is either responsible for his sides success or not.

Yeah, appreciate the SH support there bullsbok but you'd be a hard man to begrudge Ireland some time in the sun after their improved ranking, performances and scalps. Unfortunately haven't had the chance to watch any Ireland games this year but they seem to be kicking on nicely under Schmidt. If they beat Oz, you could probably just hand the best team award to them right there and then. Guns, I think we'll stick with Hansen thanks but I understand your bullishness. Makes you wonder about the quality of previous coaches if anything.

ebop wrote:Yeah, appreciate the SH support there bullsbok but you'd be a hard man to begrudge Ireland some time in the sun after their improved ranking, performances and scalps. Unfortunately haven't had the chance to watch any Ireland games this year but they seem to be kicking on nicely under Schmidt. If they beat Oz, you could probably just hand the best team award to them right there and then. Guns, I think we'll stick with Hansen thanks but I understand your bullishness. Makes you wonder about the quality of previous coaches if anything.

does make you wonder why it takes a kiwi coach to get these sides out of second gear (Robbie Deans the exception of course- I think he put oz back into first!)...and I suppose Hansens Welsh effort will be raised here and we can only confirm that he's learnt a lot since then- when he coached Wales all NZ coaches were rubbish anyway so its not as if he hed good role models either back then.

This latest lot have learned form the Henry's and later Hansen models thats for sure.

Yeah, trailblazers those guys. Now look at the exodus of coaches trying to get a piece of the action. I wonder, if Hansen and co chuck it in after 2015 (hope he doesnt but you can forgive him if he did), and the NZRU goes looking for coaches. Would they contact Gatland, Schmidt or Cotter to see if they were interested? Some of the best NZ coaches have come out of Wales. It'll be a bunfight.

I have been impressed by Hansen in some ways but here are my thoughts. Outside of coaching the New Zealand team he has achieved very little.

In fact his tenure with Wales was one of Wales' worst ever streaks with 11 consecutive defeats and a white wash in the six nations. Thats not possible if you are a really good coach especially given the year after he left Wales won a grand slam.

With New Zealand the record has been impressive but he inherited the world cup champions and arguably the best team of all time. He also has the luxury that very few other coaches have in a conveyor belt of new talent after new talent that he has.

New Zeland have won quite a few games this year through individual brilliance when trailing their opposition which suggests they may be regressing slighly in terms of really putting teams away making it a no contest through solid game plans and tactics.

All in all what Hansen has done with NZ has been really impressive but equally what Pieter DeVilliers did with the world cup winning side he inherited was really impressive yet he gets zero praise.

I think it is really difficult to tell how good Hansen is but it is really easy to see the difference Schmidt has made to Ireland as it is a little more tangable.

I think Kiwis might find this article funny. I note that it isnt to be taken seriously as it is by Neil Francis Ireland's answer to Stephen Jones.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/autumn-internationals/neil-francis-ruthless-schmidt-out-in-front-as-best-coach-in-the-world-30740840.html

GunsGerms wrote:I have been impressed by Hansen in some ways but here are my thoughts. Outside of coaching the New Zealand team he has achieved very little.

In fact his tenure with Wales was one of Wales' worst ever streaks with 11 consecutive defeats and a white wash in the six nations. Thats not possible if you are a really good coach especially given the year after he left Wales won a grand slam.

With New Zealand the record has been impressive but he inherited the world cup champions and arguably the best team of all time. He also has the luxury that very few other coaches have in a conveyor belt of new talent after new talent that he has.

New Zeland have won quite a few games this year through individual brilliance when trailing their opposition which suggests they may be regressing slighly in terms of really putting teams away making it a no contest through solid game plans and tactics.

All in all what Hansen has done with NZ has been really impressive but equally what Pieter DeVilliers did with the world cup winning side he inherited was really impressive yet he gets zero praise.

I think it is really difficult to tell how good Hansen is but it is really easy to see the difference Schmidt has made to Ireland as it is a little more tangable.

I think Kiwis might find this article funny. I note that it isnt to be taken seriously as it is by Neil Francis Ireland's answer to Stephen Jones.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/autumn-internationals/neil-francis-ruthless-schmidt-out-in-front-as-best-coach-in-the-world-30740840.html

Hansen took a World cup winning side and improved it. Even Henry admitted that. And he did so by introducing 30 new players in two years while maintaining a 90% win rate...which coach in history has done anything remotely resembling that guns?

All Schmidt has done has proved that NHers can't coach. Simple as that. He took largely the same side and made them better. And doesn't even need BOD. We've seen for years on here the endless coaching criticisms of the Irish and Scottish coaches to date. In walk Schmidt and Cotter...all that talk has ended.

Taylorman wrote:

Hansen took a World cup winning side and improved it. Even Henry admitted that. And he did so by introducing 30 new players in two years while maintaining a 90% win rate...which coach in history has done anything remotely resembling that guns?

All Schmidt has done has proved that NHers can't coach. Simple as that. He took largely the same side and made them better. And doesn't even need BOD. We've seen for years on here the endless coaching criticisms of the Irish and Scottish coaches to date. In walk Schmidt and Cotter...all that talk has ended.

Kidney was IRB coach of the year in '09 so not sure you are right.

Schmidt has coached in the NH for a lot longer than he had in the SH.

The last dire Scotland coach was from Australia.

How do you explain Hansen's dire run as coach for a Welsh side that went on to win a grand slam after he left?

Under Hanson there have been 28 debuts and about 12 of them have only played 1 test. Not sure what the value is in that? Its not that remarkable anyway as Stuart Lancaster has been England coach for the same period and has capped 38 players. Phillipe Saint Andre has capped 23 players.

Schmidt has been in charge for 12 months and has capped 11 players. More or less the same average per anumn as Hanson anyway.

GunsGerms wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Hansen took a World cup winning side and improved it. Even Henry admitted that. And he did so by introducing 30 new players in two years while maintaining a 90% win rate...which coach in history has done anything remotely resembling that guns?

All Schmidt has done has proved that NHers can't coach. Simple as that. He took largely the same side and made them better. And doesn't even need BOD. We've seen for years on here the endless coaching criticisms of the Irish and Scottish coaches to date. In walk Schmidt and Cotter...all that talk has ended.

Kidney was IRB coach of the year in '09 so not sure you are right.

Schmidt has coached in the NH for a lot longer than he had in the SH.

The last dire Scotland coach was from Australia.

How do you explain Hansen's dire run as coach for a Welsh side that went on to win a grand slam after he left?

Under Hanson there have been 28 debuts and about 12 of them have only played 1 test. Not sure what the value is in that? Its not that remarkable anyway as Stuart Lancaster has been England coach for the same period and has capped 38 players. Phillipe Saint Andre has capped 23 players.

Hansen was terrible with Wales, we know that. So was John Mitchell with NZ so he was consistent for the era, no more no less. Hansen has learned the trade and is now the worlds premier coach. Both Lancaster and PSA may have blooded players but there is a difference between that and maintaining a hugely successful winning rate. That is about trying players who fail, then trying more. Few of hansens have failed, in fact none I can think of we can say will never play again. There just isnt enough room to play 30 or so players in 3 seasons of test rugby. 16 from 28 with more than one test is an excellent strike rate if you ask me. But overall maintaining the win rate is the difference. Anyone can introduce players and lose. Easiest thing in the world.

Taylorman I know you are fond of him but I honestly wouldnt swap Hanson for Schmidt even if they threw in McCaw as a sweetner. Im not sure Kiwi's realise how good Schmidt is yet.

Ireland have had Kiwi coaches before too. Murray Kidd and Warren Gatland, neither have a patch on Schmidt. Not even close.

I know Schmidt well from the Auckland Blues days and he's worked a lot with Cotter so I appreciate its who you know but the reality is NZ coaches of the last 6-7 years have stepped up a level and now there's not enough sides for them in NZ.

The next AB coach may well come from Schmidt, Cotter or Dave Rennie- the coach many here believe is now our next best. He took the usual easy beats Chiefs from nothing and never having won it to consecutive superxv titles first attempt so Schmidt is not in a unique position. Like our players he's part of the success our rugby is going through over the last few years- to have so many good sides must mean there are good coaches.

I think the best thing about them is they bring attractive rugby, how it should be played, involving everyone etc. Look at the tries the Irish/ Scots scored last week. Fabulous.

Taylorman, interesting point about your coaches there. I heard the announcement of the new NZ u20 coaching team today and it looks pretty formidable. We'd love to have coaches like that in Wales.

Congratulations to Brodie Retallick being awarded the International player of the year this morning. a humble man that just works hard.

Epic year for the big rig Brodie Retallick, well done mate!

I didn't hear that. Well done to Brodie though, thoroughly deserving of it.

The Saint wrote:I didn't hear that. Well done to Brodie though, thoroughly deserving of it.

Steve Hansen got the International coach of the year and the All Blacks got team of the year.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

The Saint wrote:I didn't hear that. Well done to Brodie though, thoroughly deserving of it.

Steve Hansen got the International coach of the year and the All Blacks got team of the year.

Cannot argue with that really .Nice to see a tight forward snab it too

aucklandlaurie wrote:

The Saint wrote:I didn't hear that. Well done to Brodie though, thoroughly deserving of it.

Steve Hansen got the International coach of the year and the All Blacks got team of the year.

No surprises there. And after today it was either Savea or Brodie for POTY.