Joost...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30036056

Says he is involved in some research to see if there is a link with playing Rugby.

There was an article in a French paper a few years that investigated SA use of pesticides on their pitches and referenced the diseases of a few of the great 1995 team. Reuben Kruger died a few years due to a rare brain disease for example.

Well, the title says it all.

Is this terrible disease more common in players of high impact contact sports?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30036056

https://www.606v2.com/t56425-joost

Is it more common? We don't know. Currently there is no established link (according to that)

I had not spotted the other article.

Maybe a mod would combine the 2?

There we go MrsP.

Ta LB.



Why the name change by the way?

I felt like a change. It's the title of a 1901 short story by Henry Lawson.

I was writing a reply to MrsP but couldn't post as the thread didn't exist

Anyway, it's difficult to say what sort of head issues will be unearthed in the next few decades. Rugby is relatively under played (certainly at the higher levels), and is relatively young as a pro game (with bigger, faster players). I was wondering what sort of issues American Football had as it's been going on for a long time, although I imagine the head impacts are different due to the helmets. Then I found this:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/249912.php

Terrifying!

I was wondering if it may emerge that CTE causes a slightly different form of ALS?

Although I think that these have to be considered in context. Biggest killers? Heart disease, cancer, etc. Common causes/increasers of risk? Obesity, smoking, bad diet, etc. So are we seeing an increase in deaths from brain problems or a decrease in other common killers, meaning they die of brain problems they would have got anyway? More people are getting cancer now partially because they're living longer. Very difficult to separate out.

But that does not really have an effect on the increased risk in Football players.

And ALS is a disease which causes premature death so increased life expectancy will not have a large effect I would not have thought.

The Parkinsons data is interesting. I wonder how many past diagnoses of Parkinsons in boxers etc were actually CTE.

HammerofThunor wrote:https://www.606v2.com/t56425-joost

Is it more common? We don't know. Currently there is no established link (according to that)

Although, as mentioned above, Reuben Kruger died of a rare brain condition. And Tinus Linee, another Bok from that era, recently succumbed to Motor Neuron Disease.

MrsP wrote:But that does not really have an effect on the increased risk in Football players.

And ALS is a disease which causes premature death so increased life expectancy will not have a large effect I would not have thought.

The Parkinsons data is interesting. I wonder how many past diagnoses of Parkinsons in boxers etc were actually CTE.

Very true.

The other interesting thing about that data is that it was the fast boys who were the ones who were affected, not those head butting defensive blockers etc.

I suppose I should not be surprised by that at all given that velocity has a geometric effect on energy.

MrsP wrote:The other interesting thing about that data is that it was the fast boys who were the ones who were affected, not those head butting defensive blockers etc.

I suppose I should not be surprised by that at all given that velocity has a geometric effect on energy.

I suppose in rugby it may have to do with the fact that the tight five don't have brains to start with: so no chance of brain-disease there

I'll let you bring that up with Brian Moore, Rodrigo Roncero and Jannie du Plessis to name but 3.

MrsP wrote:

I'll let you bring that up with Brian Moore, Rodrigo Roncero and Jannie du Plessis to name but 3.

I'd rather not. Not in person anyway...the good doctor et al may give me some involuntary orthopaedic surgery

People are all different.  Now - you thought you'd never hear a line like that so I'm glad I educated the lot of you

But seriously, I think clinical attitudes of cause and effect do always falter when they try to be ultra dismissive of the concept of randomness.

So can rugby damage brains? - certainly it can.  If it is ever 'proven' to have caused a serious injury in one distinct player, does that mean the same conditions experienced by another player will bring about the same results? - No.

We all know the guys who smoke heavily all their lives and have never fallen victim to the disease that smoking certainly does cause in many people.

And we know for a fact that rugby kills.  But still men play rugby knowing something that doesn't even need clinical trials to prove....as there is evidence there in stark B&W

So I'd say you're only fooling yourself if you believe the high impact sport of rugby played by large and physically impressive men does not have health implications into the future for any number of players.  Of course such activity will disrupt the brains and spinal cords of a certain percentage of players - and that damage will come back to haunt some players in later life or suddenly in youth.

My point is that I don't think common sense needs trials and 'proof' to acknowledge that truth.  But will trials and proof change the rules of the game or the nature of players who will still want to play it? That's probably the more pertinent point.