The plot thickens -"cry baby"

First topic message reminder :

Found this interesting comment on a tennis blog I was reading, thought it would be worth sharing. Still has an element of speculation but have to say it doesn't look too good. Also at the end you can see Federer grimace at match point, rarely see him do something like that. Seems it was one of the most dramatic matches you are likely to ever see.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid2344262030001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAB3OVQoyE~,bQIJFW4YgkSAcqiAMKK4W3j6jM523fde&bctid=3894620532001



Listen carefully here but its pretty clear what is happening.
Here is a comment from some Swiss guy in some other post.
shnicshnac
I am swiss and I can tell you what happened, its in the papers here.
At 5 all and deuce in the 3rd set, between first and second serve.
Mirka is cheering very loud.
Stan interrupts Rogers Serving motion.
Mourier asks in French: “Whats up?”
Stan looks to Mirka and says: “Not just before the serve..”
With that he means, she should be quiet between the serves and not cheer so close before the serve.
Then she replies: “Cry, Baby, cry.”
And the Stan gets mad and answers to her: What?!?”
He adresses Mourier: “Did you hear what she say?”
Stan also says: “She did it already at Wimbledon..”

If you listen really carefully, you can just about make out "cry baby" very faintly

"Sports staff" from The Times reports that Federer and Wawrinka say move along now there's nothing to see. Or words to that effect. Sorry it's PPV but well worth it

Roger Federer and Stan Wawrinka dismissed talk of a feud today, putting on a display of unity at a Davis Cup press conference. The Swiss pair, ranked world No 2 and No 4 respectively, made it clear that they hoped to move on following reports of a furious argument after their semi-final match at the ATP World Tour Finals last week.

“There’s no hard feeling whatsoever. We are friends, not enemies, but it was maybe one of those heat-of-the-moment situations,” Federer said, before Switzerland’s Davis Cup final against France on Friday.

“It’s true, we had a problem, we talked in the locker room but now it’s all ok,” he added. “We had a conversation after the match. Everything’s totally relaxed.”

Wawrinka, meanwhile, chose to be even less explicit, stating that he had “nothing to say about a problem with Roger”.

Federer and Wawrinka are fantastic professionals.

Even if they don't like each other (which they may or may not do, nobody apart form them knows), they will put that to aside for this Davis Cup finals and get on well with each other.

Also I have to mention, this really was awful umpiring from Cedric.

Firstly he made a terrible overrule, then he dealt with the crowd badly, then he goes and tells the press that Wawrinka was annoyed with Mirka's comments ?

The first two things he should have been a competent umpire, the third issue he shouldn't talk about publicly, not so soon anyway.

It Must Be Love wrote:Federer hits out at umpire for revealing Mirka annoyed Stan:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/rogerfederer/11238769/Roger-Federer-criticises-umpire-Cedric-Mourier-for-confirming-his-wife-Mirka-did-heckle-Stanislas-Wawrinka.html

Stan hits out at umpire for revealing Mirka annoyed Stan:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/rogerfederer/11238769/Roger-Federer-criticises-umpire-Cedric-Mourier-for-confirming-his-wife-Mirka-did-heckle-Stanislas-Wawrinka.html

Fed and Stan say it was no big deal, everything is good:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/rogerfederer/11238769/Roger-Federer-criticises-umpire-Cedric-Mourier-for-confirming-his-wife-Mirka-did-heckle-Stanislas-Wawrinka.html

Fed and Stan hit the PR trail, don't believe a word of it, they hate each other :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/rogerfederer/11238769/Roger-Federer-criticises-umpire-Cedric-Mourier-for-confirming-his-wife-Mirka-did-heckle-Stanislas-Wawrinka.html

That's not true Julius, nowhere did Stan say anything negative, if you see the hyperlink it says it was Federer who criticised the umpire, not Stan.

hawkeye wrote:Wawrinka, meanwhile, chose to be even less explicit, stating that he had “nothing to say about a problem with Roger”.

Wawrinka, meanwhile, chose to be as explicit, stating that "It has become a big deal but for us, it's nothing. It took us five minutes to talk about that."

JuliusHMarx wrote:

hawkeye wrote:Wawrinka, meanwhile, chose to be even less explicit, stating that he had “nothing to say about a problem with Roger”.

Wawrinka, meanwhile, chose to be as explicit, stating that "It has become a big deal but for us, it's nothing. It took us five minutes to talk about that."

Where is yours source Julius? Mine is a direct cut and paste from The Times of London.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle of what the press said and what Federer said.

The Daily Mail, Telegraph, and Eurosport were making it seem like they had a such a devastatingly argument that it made Fed's back deteriorate or something to that extent (I think it was the Mail, I remember Summerblues sarcastically mocking that line).
Then Stan and Fed say everything was ok and it was just a chat.

I don't think the argument was so bad it really impacted Federer's back, but at the same time I don't think it was a nice friendly chat either.

I'm really surprised at Mirka's actions though, I would never have guessed before this week she would do something like that. Really disrespectful to Stan.

It Must Be Love wrote:That's not true Julius, nowhere did Stan say anything negative, if you see the hyperlink it says it was Federer who criticised the umpire, not Stan.

Wawrinka added: "I'm not sure the umpire is allowed to talk, but that is his problem."

hawkeye wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

hawkeye wrote:Wawrinka, meanwhile, chose to be even less explicit, stating that he had “nothing to say about a problem with Roger”.

Wawrinka, meanwhile, chose to be as explicit, stating that "It has become a big deal but for us, it's nothing. It took us five minutes to talk about that."

Where is yours source Julius? Mine is a direct cut and paste from The Times of London.

Mine is from IMBL's link.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:That's not true Julius, nowhere did Stan say anything negative, if you see the hyperlink it says it was Federer who criticised the umpire, not Stan.

Wawrinka added: "I'm not sure the umpire is allowed to talk, but that is his problem."

Yes Stan seemed a bit more diplomatic, he didn't directly make a statement, but said 'I'm not sure'- I think hinting that like Federer he didn't particularly want the umpire to reveal this info.

Julius

legendkillarV2 wrote: Julius

I don't understand the joke, all I can see is Hawkeye and Julius randomly quoting from the Times and the Telegraph lol

Quite shady behaviour from Mirka though. She's a former pro herself, so I don't think it's a case where like many of Roger's celebrity hanger ons, she didn't really understand cheering for as Stan is.about to serve us at the very least cheap gameswomanship... She would have known exactly what she was doing.

It' the wifes fault, it always is!!

Jahu wrote:It' the wifes fault, it always is!!

Men are never wrong Jahu, well not my their reckoning at any rate

Maybe Rafa's girlfriend should have called Wawrinka out as a "cry baby" at the AO

Do you have to keep bringing Rafa up in all non-Nadal threads?

Haddie-nuff wrote:

Jahu wrote:It' the wifes fault, it always is!!

Men are never wrong Jahu, well not my their reckoning at any rate

I'm sure you know it better, I am not as mature as you

I do not follow Mirka's behavior that closely but I have always had an impression of her as sitting rather quietly - almost bored looking - in the box.  I would have imagined that the most likely way she would disrupt a match is by accidentally falling asleep and starting to snore.

I never imagined her being so involved in the matches as to hackle players.  I guess I was wrong - unless she hackles her husband's opponents out of boredom.

summerblues wrote:I never imagined her being so involved in the matches as to hackle players.  I guess I was wrong - unless she hackles her husband's opponents out of boredom.

For 1,221 matches? She is the true GOAT, then.

Wives are often more more ambitious of their husbands prospects than their men. Roger might be facing his buddy Stan for a shot at a final, but Mirka's husband is facing the second best Suisse player, his natural rival.

King, bit of a marriage expert you are

Agree thought, Mirka mostly looks like a sack of potatoes in the box, rarily shows crazy emotions.

But quiet ladies are the craziest ones

lydian wrote:Interesting insights CAS.

Some double standards being applied here by posters, Stan is told to shut up about the off court comments but Federer lauded for shouting at Djokovic's parents another time.

There's obviously history in Stan's feelings....it was a high pressure situation in a high stakes match, the last thing needed was external pressure being applied by the wife of the guy he's trying to beat.

I would actually imagine Roger wasn't too happy with Mirka tbh...it strikes me he likes to win matches without any external influences. He needs to apologise to Stan for her behaviour...or do it herself directly. Plus I can imagine Stan being annoyed at Luthi sitting in Federer's box when the following weekend he's going to be cheering Stan on...that wasn't great decision making either. I actually feel for Stan after that match.

Plus can you imagine Roger/Stan - who were good friends don't forget - having a very heated argument about Mirka after such a tremendous match. This would be uncharted territory for Federer even after 1222 ATP matches played. You wonder how much it screwed with Federer's mind to such an extent it was a factor in his withdrawal from the final.

Yep exactly, Roger was cheered on by most threads in old 606 for telling off those vile Djokovics. Now it seems that his box is doing the same thing and people think Stan was the one who should have let things go. This is what I have been saying about Federer for a long time. Funny thing is that Stan was a much bigger gentelman towards Roger and his box than Roger was towards Djokovic and his team. Imagine the hue and outcry if Stan yelled at Mirka and told her to be quiet in away that everyone at courtside and the media could pick up instantly like the Monaco Rage incident of 2008. If Stan had done that the media and the fans would have crucified him although apparently it was ok for Roger to do the same thing to Mrs. Djokovic the elder.

I find it so funny how Roger now going after the umpire for speaking the truth about his box's outrageous conduct. The freaking smug audacity of it all. Why is the umpire required to cover up for the conduct of your box? Why is it Stan's responsibility to simply brush it off and let them run roughshod over the rules? By the way why was everyone cheering Federer for acting way worse towards Djokovic's parents and find no criticism needed for Roger?

This exposes what a farce all these fake Nike Edberg awards are that Roger keeps winning. Yeah, a great sport who takes the umpire to task for stating the truth when his team is out of order and interjecting themselves into the outcome of a match.

Is the umpire allowed to discuss what has happened post-match ?

Probably more a question of whether the umpire is expressly prohibited from doing so?

It's not ok for Federer to shout at Djokovic's camp if they are putting him off.

It is ok for Stan to shout about Mirka doing it. Good to know

There's one thing calling out loudly, but calling someone a crybaby public is I think on another level of disrespect.

I find it funny that to some people Mrs. Djokovic's behaviour was perfectly acceptable, but Mirka's was 'outrageous'.

I find it funny that to some people, Stan pointing his racket at Mirka and saying "Not before the serve" is gentlemanly, but Fed saying 'Be quiet' is disgraceful.

The incident itself was of interest but the response has been both fascinating and predictable at the same time.

The only thing that's disappointing in this whole thing is Mirka's behaviour. She should be barred from the court for the next six months. Peanut gallery type comments is unbefitting

kingraf wrote:The only thing that's disappointing in this whole thing is Mirka's behaviour. She should be barred from the court for the next six months. Peanut gallery type comments is unbefitting

I think that's an overreaction, she shouldn't be barred from the court.

JuliusHMarx wrote:I find it funny that to some people Mrs. Djokovic's behaviour was perfectly acceptable, but Mirka's was 'outrageous'.

I find it funny that to some people, Stan pointing his racket at Mirka and saying "Not before the serve" is gentlemanly, but Fed saying 'Be quiet' is disgraceful.

The incident itself was of interest but the response has been both fascinating and predictable at the same time.

What did Djokovic's mum say to Federer at the time ? (Not a rhetorical question, I genuinely don't know/can't remember)

The king is dead long live the king.... not word for word, but basically.

kingraf wrote:The king is dead long live the king.... not word for word, but basically.

I don't think so, I think you're getting confused with another incident.

Might be, Federer and the Djokovic family have had frosty relations

It's given everybody who likes tennis something to talk about, there should be more behaviour like this otherwise we'd all be talking about statistics/Weak era nonsense.

I thought "the King is dead, long live the King" came after the AO thrashing in 2008, whereas what people are refering to is the "Be quiet!" comment Feds directed at the Djokovic box (I'm not even sure it was at Mrs Djokovic in particular) during some clay-court match sometime. IIRC Djokovic hit a ball close to the line, called out, Djoko camp starts making noise, Fed shouts "be quiet" and wipes out the mark, indicating ball was good.

Here it is, Monte Carlo apparently
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4fB5Tp-FGU

It was thought at the time that Federer didn't like how noisy the Djokovic camp were being at times, and this was perhaps exarcebated by the "the king is dead" comments. TBH I don't see much in the incident, Fed gets a little heated, but there's nothing particularly nasty about "be quiet, ok!" is there?

I do think the Mirka incident is worse though, for two reasons:

1) shouting out between serves (or just before) is known by anyone who follows tennis fairly regularly to be pretty poor behaviour at best. Mirka has obviously followed Fed on tour and should know this. Stan seems to indicate it is not the first time this has happened: in IMBL's dailymotion vid he first brings it up at 4-4 in set 2 before it all boils over in set 3, and Wimbledon is also mentioned.

2) the "cry, baby" (or "crybaby" as it might be) comment is clearly a little bit out of order, and much worse IMO than a simple "be quiet".

In any case, I wonder if the umpire wouldn't have been better off taking some action after the first reporting of the incident in set 2...

It Must Be Love wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:I find it funny that to some people Mrs. Djokovic's behaviour was perfectly acceptable, but Mirka's was 'outrageous'.

I find it funny that to some people, Stan pointing his racket at Mirka and saying "Not before the serve" is gentlemanly, but Fed saying 'Be quiet' is disgraceful.

The incident itself was of interest but the response has been both fascinating and predictable at the same time.

What did Djokovic's mum say to Federer at the time ? (Not a rhetorical question, I genuinely don't know/can't remember)

I don't know either. I don't think what it was, or Fed's response (or Mirka/Stan) was anything to get too worked up about. Everyone involved in both incidents probably forgot about it soon afterwards, certainly way before those who weren't involved!

If a member of the public watching from the stands had shouted out between serves, disrupting the game and caused the same reaction from Stan.. what do you think the response would have been from the umpire ? Would that person have been warned, or even removed from the crowd ????? I don't know.  But whatever action would have been taken against Jo Public should have been taken against Mirka.. same rules or not apply imo

"Stan should have finished that match at 5-3. I wouldn’t have had a back problem" Telegraph. This comment seems to confirm what we thought already, that the back problem only came in in the latter stages, we can see Federer grimacing at match point, may explain why he decided to charge to the net on the first match point.

I have to question this article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/rogerfederer/11238769/Roger-Federer-criticises-umpire-Cedric-Mourier-for-confirming-his-wife-Mirka-did-heckle-Stanislas-Wawrinka.html
The headline is "Federer criticises umpire Cedric Mourier for confirming his wife Mirka did heckle Stanislas Wawrinka".

Mourier said that “I noticed that Stan was getting irritated when he was at the same end as Roger Federer's team. I asked him what had happened. He said 'She talked to me.' And I realised he was upset with Roger's wife.”
In other words, Mourier did NOT confirm that Mirka heckled Stan, at least not according to that quote. At most he confirmed that Stan thought she heckled him, which we already knew. So the Telegraph cannot accurately produce a headline that describes its own article.

Also, Federer also criticises the umpire for giving an interview, nothing more than that, either the headline is very misleading or at least the article fails to substantiate it. Very poor effort from the Telegraph all round.

Haddie-nuff wrote:If a member of the public watching from the stands had shouted out between serves, disrupting the game and caused the same reaction from Stan.. what do you think the response would have been from the umpire ? Would that person have been warned, or even removed from the crowd ????? I don't know.  But whatever action would have been taken against Jo Public should have been taken against Mirka.. same rules or not apply imo

The umpire said he didn't hear it. Assuming you don't think he is lying, there is nothing he can do. He cannot sanction her on the player's so so.

Had he heard it, he might have directed a general comment to the crowd not to shout out between serves. Removal from the crowd is rare, you have to be a complete d1ck to have that happen, can anyone remember that ever actually happening whiole they were at a match?

It Must Be Love wrote:

Not sure people have seen this photo, speaks a thousand words (or whatever that cheesy saying is)

Henman Bill wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:If a member of the public watching from the stands had shouted out between serves, disrupting the game and caused the same reaction from Stan.. what do you think the response would have been from the umpire ? Would that person have been warned, or even removed from the crowd ????? I don't know.  But whatever action would have been taken against Jo Public should have been taken against Mirka.. same rules or not apply imo

The umpire said he didn't hear it. Assuming you don't think he is lying, there is nothing he can do. He cannot sanction her on the player's so so.

Had he heard it, he might have directed a general comment to the crowd not to shout out between serves. Removal from the crowd is rare, you have to be a complete d1ck to have that happen, can anyone remember that ever actually happening whiole they were at a match?

I can't say I have witnessed one. There is a YouTube video of a guy/maybe 2 being removed from the crowd at the US Open. I think it was before the match. The stadium was pretty empty and the fans in question managed to antagonise some spectators.

I have seen the photo. Is that Mirka with her left hand over her mouth? I don't think the photo adds anything to the debate. By the way, a few days have gone by, Federer had given an interview, and neither Federer or Mirka has denied the "cry baby" comment as being stated by Mirka. Of course, Mirka never speaks publically anyway but if she was ever going to do so it would be now. On the balance of probabilities at this stage, it probably was her that said just that.

Henman Bill wrote:I have seen the photo. Is that Mirka with her left hand over her mouth? I don't think the photo adds anything to the debate. By the way, a few days have gone by, Federer had given an interview, and neither Federer or Mirka has denied the "cry baby" comment as being stated by Mirka. Of course, Mirka never speaks publically anyway but if she was ever going to do so it would be now. On the balance of probabilities at this stage, it probably was her that said just that.

Yeah but it's a cool photo, Stan is looking at Mirka and Mirka looks angry.

Agree with your conclusion

Haddie-nuff wrote:If a member of the public watching from the stands had shouted out between serves, disrupting the game and caused the same reaction from Stan.. what do you think the response would have been from the umpire ? Would that person have been warned, or even removed from the crowd ????? I don't know.  But whatever action would have been taken against Jo Public should have been taken against Mirka.. same rules or not apply imo

Probably not - I recall Djoko shouting at a crowd member, who I don't think was removed or personally warned. Even the literal 'cry-baby' (the baby that Ferrer hit the ball towards) wasn't removed. You have to be very badly behaved to get removed e.g. some racist comments towards a player at Wimby 2 or 3 years ago. It's a rare occurrence.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:It's not ok for Federer to shout at Djokovic's camp if they are putting him off.

It is ok for Stan to shout about Mirka doing it. Good to know

Actually he didn't he complained to the umpire as opposed to going postal on Mirka like Roger did in Monaco Rage 2008.

Stan pointed his racket at Mirka and said "Not before the serve!". That's surely 'going postal' by your standards, socal!
The umpire then intervened.