Aviva Premiership - Round 8

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Premiership Table


Fixtures

Friday 21st November 2014

Harlequins (6th) v Sale (7th) 19:45  BT Sport
Two teams who won last week face each other at the Stoop. By all accounts Quins did the basics well last week, and against a Sale team who have struggled on their travels that could be enough.

Newcastle (11th) v Gloucester (8th) 20:00
Falcons are probably safe from relegation already - so must be looking to improve before next season when Bristol or Worcester are likely to be much stronger than London Welsh have been. This is the sort of fixture they simply have to be winning, especially with Gloucester in the midst of a crisis among their back line. International duties and injuries deprive them of all but Charlie Sharples from their first choice attack.

Saturday 22nd November 2014

Exeter (2nd) v Wasps (5th) 15:00
I have no idea how Exeter have made it to 2nd in the table. Whenever I see them play they have looked very short of firepower. However they win the matches I do not watch. Wasps had a fun unopposed session last week - not really the preparation for a trip to Sandy Park.

London Irish (10th) v Bath (3rd) 15:00
London Irish have just lost 3 matches on the bounce, with what have been described as some lamentable performances. The coaches have been critical of the players, the fans of the coaches. Bath are however still vulnerable and could easily struggle in this match.

Sunday 23rd November 2014

Saracens (4th) v Northampton (1st) 13:00 BT Sport
Both sides will be disappointed with last week. Mark McCall seemed to blame the ref for Sarries failure to win - perhaps he should instead look at how they approached the game. They offered zero threat with ball in hand, and seemed to assume their defence would win the game. As predicted Saints were vulnerable last week. Mallinder was critical of how they tried to play too much rugby in poor conditions. Saracens should be much stronger than Saints this week, but if they persist with Wyles at 12 could struggle to create. That would be criminal with two wingers who are on fire.

London Welsh (12th) v Leicester (9th) 15:15  BT Sport
BT Sport are often criticised for only showing glamour matches. They balance that this week with this bottom of the table clash between the two lowest try scorers in the league. London Welsh have been conceding 49 points per match, so maybe Tigers can get their second TBP of the season (previous was against Falcons) but do not hold your breath. Freddie Burns lack of confidence from the kicking tee will mean that Owen Williams wil start - yet he has shown no evidence that he will be able to direct the backs to try scoring form.

So give him a couple from the bench and see if he picks up.

Tigers vs LW looks like an amateur game. Hell the social side I play for has better basic skill levels.

It's a terrible game, atmosphere (or lack of) isn't helping.

Didn't see that coming......Tigers

We're absolutely appalling. That try is just embarrassing. Mele and Burns are not looking anything like AP players put the academy lads on, they played better than this Poopie during the LV period.

About time there for the second try!

Burns giving up the kicking tee to Tommy Bell who nails the conversion as well...

Should have been Bell kicking from the start. He's been kicking well when in tandem with Bryant in the A league and LV.

Bit worrying that our best players so far are the academy hooker and the winger just back from injury.

Bonus point secured once again from a driving maul.

Haven't seen the whole game but Thacker really has been impressive from what I've seen!

Allen seems to be perking up a bit as well which is very much needed with Tuilagi out and Goneva away with Fiji.

Thacker is great in the loose but such a weakness at scrum time, he's just not big enough.

Interesting comments from Kay that he could make a good 7, he'd be a very interesting option going forward and could certainly fill a hole at Int level if he made the switch early.

The scrum has been fine though. We've won all our own ball, targeted LW when under pressure at the base and we've had several penalties.

It's been fine against a poor LW outfit, your scrum improves when he's not there. He's a passanger in the scrum imo

Sgt_Pooly wrote:It's been fine against a poor LW outfit, your scrum improves when he's not there. He's a passanger in the scrum imo

 Our scrum was the same when Thacker moved to 7 aginst Welsh and he played the whole 80 against Sarries last week and held his own.

 5th place now and 4 points off 4th.

 Ayerza, YBY and Goneva back next week will be a big boost and maybe even an injury or 2 could be back.

 OTY, Mulipola and Parling should be back sometime in December which will be a huge boost to the front 5.

Also Liam Williams rumoured to be coming to us.

 Would be huge if true.

Disagree Welly, I thought it improved no end. I just don't rate the lad as a hooker, good loose player though.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Disagree Welly, I thought it improved no end. I just don't rate the lad as a hooker, good loose player though.

 
 The plus point to him in that department (His critics) is @ 20 he is is young enough to become a 7 (ala Back) if needs be.

Yet the only scrum he's not there we get turned over. To be fair to LW their set piece isn't bad it has been the defence that has been shocking. That and a lack of powerful ball carriers to get them over the gain line.

He's certainly filled out. Nothing will stop him being a short arse but he's got a decent amount of but on him and it's not detracting from his loose game. I do wonder whether he'll be able to establish himself at international level but then again Mears did and a move to openside won't necessarily help those aspirations when the current options have another RWC after this one in them and the other options coming through (Jones, Owen and the already established Wallace) will be around for years. Webber, Youngs and Hartley are already closer to 30 than 25 and the only other England hooker to come through in recent times is Cowan-Dickie who appears to be mainly injured.

Bit more bulk, keep working on those set pieces and that loose game is already stand out. Seven carries for 45 metres today. Always requires more than one defender to make the tackle and Darren found that last week as well.

I'd throw Jamie George into the mix and he can certainly scrummage.

Doing a quick search, Mears is listed at being 3cm taller and 16kg heavier than Thacker, not too sure on the reliability of this. I just think there's no place to carry that type of player at the top level.

I wouldn't trust the stats on Mears. I met him once and he was no taller than me, and I'm 5'6"

I was thinking the same Ozz, 176cm is a little optimistic. Mears had quite a chunky frame though, Thacker seems quite slight with muscle added. He looks anything but a hooker really.

George has 4 years on Thacker aswell.

Another thing about the Tigers team was that there was 11 English born players starting out of 15 and 6 out of 8 EQP on the bench.

 Total of 17 out of 23 players were English born not bad.

George has probably slimmed down since he was Thackers age

I think you're being a bit harsh on Thacker Pooly.  Yes he is on the small side, but he has put in some very good performances for Tigers, and given their proclivity towards a strong set piece I doubt he would have got a contract there if he couldn't cut it.

Welly wrote:Another thing about the Tigers team was that there was 11 English born players starting out of 15 and 6 out of 8 EQP on the bench.

 Total of 17 out of 23 players were English born not bad.

That would be impressive if you played well

I don't rate him in the slightest Oz, I think he's a massive weakness in the set piece.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Welly wrote:Another thing about the Tigers team was that there was 11 English born players starting out of 15 and 6 out of 8 EQP on the bench.

 Total of 17 out of 23 players were English born not bad.

That would be impressive if you played well

 Shut up.

 that was why we played like we did maybe? I blame Lancaster.

Shut up???? Lol

Welly, I expect more from you!

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Shut up???? Lol

Welly, I expect more from you!

 No you don't.

 I'm going through a very tiring time ATM what with having watched  live England play very poorly against Samoa and then the next day watching a poor Leicester team live making a hash of a game we should have won by miles.  

 The amount of mistake I have seen live in the past 24 hours has been mind blowing.

That was only the second time I've seen welsh play this season... I really wish I hadn't wasted my afternoon! Pretty poor game all around for me, tigers will be happy with those points though I'm sure.

Baxters comments after the exeter made me smile, they could have been in response to a poster on here!

"Jack (Nowell) scored them by being on the end of the last pass on the wing and now, I suppose, that will make him a great try-scoring winger, the reality is that his strength is that he does work all over the pitch.
"It is good for him that he has banged a couple of tries down because people can now stop saying he doesn't score tries."

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't rate him in the slightest Oz, I think he's a massive weakness in the set piece.

He ahs not been so far this season. Only timer I have seen him struggle was when paired with Scott Wilson.



That was dreadful - and unlike most on here, I paid a small fortune in travel, parking and tickets for that garbage.

LondonTiger wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't rate him in the slightest Oz, I think he's a massive weakness in the set piece.

He ahs not been so far this season. Only timer I have seen him struggle was when paired with Scott Wilson.



That was dreadful - and unlike most on here, I paid a small fortune in travel, parking and tickets for that garbage.

 which garbage?

Pooly in a hooker is too short shocker! lol. So what exact height is ok for you? Whats the cut of point?

It's only Thacker that comes to mind that I have an issue with and it's not really his height.

He's small framed, underpowered and weak in the scrum. I've always said this since I first seen him for the U20's, I've seen nothing to change my mind.

At the Kassam Welly.

I do not pay for twickenham.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:It's only Thacker that comes to mind that I have an issue with and it's not really his height.

He's small framed, underpowered and weak in the scrum. I've always said this since I first seen him for the U20's, I've seen nothing to change my mind.

On the evidence of 3 Tigers first team matches I would disagree. That the U20 scrum he was in struggled could be due to other factors maybe, like an over-rated prop?

LondonTiger wrote:At the Kassam Welly.

I do not pay for twickenham.

 Worse £150 + I have spent on a 24 hour period.

 Wish I went to the races for that money.

Wilson didn't play in the U20 if that's what you're getting at LT.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Wilson didn't play in the U20 if that's what you're getting at LT.

Are you sure about that?

http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/u20/21470.php
http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/u20/21602.php
http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/u20/21295.php

LondonTiger wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Wilson didn't play in the U20 if that's what you're getting at LT.

Are you sure about that?

http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/u20/21470.php
http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/u20/21602.php
http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/u20/21295.php

That should have read U20 WC

Thacker missed the JWC due to injury too I thought.

It was after the U20s game up at Newcastle that you first started slating Thacker (and yes i do worry he is too small) and suggested he was yet another Leicester hooker who was too small.

Yeh he was in the squad but injury put him out.

LondonTiger wrote:Thacker missed the JWC due to injury too I thought.

It was after the U20s game up at Newcastle that you first started slating Thacker (and yes i do worry he is too small) and suggested he was yet another Leicester hooker who was too small.

At least I'm consistent!

I can't recall knocking another Tigers hooker for being too small???

Pretty sure you said that Cockerill, West, Chuter, Kayser, Youngs, Leo G, Briggs and more were all to small to play regular games at hooker.

 I may have misheard though.

Bathman_in_London wrote:That was only the second time I've seen welsh play this season... I really wish I hadn't wasted my afternoon! Pretty poor game all around for me, tigers will be happy with those points though I'm sure.

Baxters comments after the exeter made me smile, they could have been in response to a poster on here!

"Jack (Nowell) scored them by being on the end of the last pass on the wing and now, I suppose, that will make him a great try-scoring winger, the reality is that his strength is that he does work all over the pitch.
"It is good for him that he has banged a couple of tries down because people can now stop saying he doesn't score tries."

Wow he has scored 2 tries. Let's give him a medal. Bravo..... About time. Only taken him till the 8th game of the season!

Two tries does not make someone a great try scoring winger - need to be a bit more consistent than that!

Primary job of a winger is to be a finisher - that's why Savea is the best winger in the world - guess what - he has an exceptional try strike rate at international level.


As for Saracens-Saints - Saracens seem to have lost their mojo - lack the bite they used to have. Saints won it in the first half by simple execution - being very direct in the forwards, kicking game was far superior, Saracens in comparison were lacklustre and lacked ideas.

Better in the 2nd half but gave Saints a too big lead to overhaul.

Scrum was a massive issue for Saracens, particularly in the 1st half and that proved hugely costly.

The experiment of Chris Wyles in the centres should be put back on the shelf (he scored 2 tries like some deity from Exeter) but they were created by his team mates. Doesn't make Wyles a great try scoring machine though he does score more tries than Nowell (not hard though).

A centre's job is not primarily to finish.

beshocked wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:That was only the second time I've seen welsh play this season... I really wish I hadn't wasted my afternoon! Pretty poor game all around for me, tigers will be happy with those points though I'm sure.

Baxters comments after the exeter made me smile, they could have been in response to a poster on here!

"Jack (Nowell) scored them by being on the end of the last pass on the wing and now, I suppose, that will make him a great try-scoring winger, the reality is that his strength is that he does work all over the pitch.
"It is good for him that he has banged a couple of tries down because people can now stop saying he doesn't score tries."

Wow he has scored 2 tries. Let's give him a medal. Bravo..... About time. Only taken him till the 8th game of the season!

Two tries does not make someone a great try scoring winger - need to be a bit more consistent than that!

Primary job of a winger is to be a finisher - that's why Savea is the best winger in the world - guess what - he has an exceptional try strike rate at international level.


As for Saracens-Saints - Saracens seem to have lost their mojo - lack the bite they used to have. Saints won it in the first half by simple execution - being very direct in the forwards, kicking game was far superior, Saracens in comparison were lacklustre and lacked ideas.

Better in the 2nd half but gave Saints a too big lead to overhaul.

Scrum was a massive issue for Saracens, particularly in the 1st half and that proved hugely costly.

The experiment of Chris Wyles in the centres should be put back on the shelf (he scored 2 tries like some deity from Exeter) but they were created by his team mates. Doesn't make Wyles a great try scoring machine though he does score more tries than Nowell (not hard though).

A centre's job is not primarily to finish.

Got out of the wrong side of bed this morning Beshocked?

Didn't have the best night's sleep so I guess you could say yes. I am a grumpy sod in general though - you are right i do need to lighten up - it's just currently the England and Saracens management are depressing me with their lacklustre selections.

I am overly harsh on Nowell, sorry Nowell, it's good to see you scoring tries - hopefully you prove me wrong by scoring some more (do that then I wouldn't be against seeing you in contention for 6 nations). Form is important. It's why I wouldn't pick the likes of Yarde,Twelvetrees or Farrell for England currently.

beshocked wrote:Didn't have the best night's sleep so I guess you could say yes. I am a grumpy sod in general though - you are right i do need to lighten up - it's just currently the England and Saracens management are depressing me with their lacklustre selections.

I am overly harsh on Nowell, sorry Nowell, it's good to see you scoring tries - hopefully you prove me wrong by scoring some more (do that then I wouldn't be against seeing you in contention for 6 nations). Form is important. It's why I wouldn't pick the likes of Yarde,Twelvetrees or Farrell for England currently.

Think of us Tigers fans, we're playing crap! Mind you at least we have a new head coach

nathan wrote:
Think of us Tigers fans, we're playing crap! Mind you at least we have a new head coach

As the legal representative for Faeces Inc, I demand you withdraw that allegation. We object most strenuously to the comparison between our clients and Leicester Football Club. Compared to them our clients are sweet smelling roses - a thing of beauty that is a pleasure to all the human senses. Leicester Tigers however .........

Funny isn't it - having a competition about whose worse at the moment.

Doesn't matter if you play crap vs LW. You could play your U18s and you would still probably win!

Saracens record against the big sides in general has been very poor recently- one win, two losses and a draw.

Expectations are higher than they were a few years ago - it's not right to see sides like Bath and Exeter above Tigers and Saracens!

beshocked wrote:Funny isn't it - having a competition about whose worse at the moment.

Doesn't matter if you play crap vs LW. You could play your U18s and you would still probably win!

Saracens record against the big sides in general has been very poor recently- one win, two losses and a draw.

Expectations are higher than they were a few years ago - it's not right to see sides like Bath and Exeter above Tigers and Saracens!

If they play better and win more matches then they have every right to be above. Everyone is improving (even LW, well a little), which is good as it increases the competition in the Aviva and then hopefully means we get better English players.

Or for those of us with longer memories, its not right to see anyone above Bath!