Scotland 6N lookahead

by **RDW** Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:36 am

First topic message reminder :

Scotland 6N lookahead - Page 14 Vern_c10

Fixtures

07/02 France V Scotland - 17:00
15/02 Scotland V Wales - 15:00

28/02 Scotland V Italy - 14:30

14/03 England V Scotland - 17:00
21/03 Scotland V Ireland - 14:30

6N standings last 10 years

2014 - 5th, 1 win
2013 - 3rd, 2 wins
2012 - 6th, 0 wins
2011 - 5th, 1 win
2010 - 5th, 1 win
2009 - 5th, 1 win
2008 - 5th, 1 win
2007 - 6th, 1 win
2006 - 3rd, 3 wins
2005 - 5th, 1 win

Squad

FORWARDS: Hugh Blake Erm

(Edinburgh Rugby), Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors), Blair Cowan, Geoff Cross (both London Irish), David Denton, Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby), Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Castres), Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), Jim Hamilton (Saracens), Rob Harley, Euan Murray, Gordon Reid (all Glasgow Warriors), Alasdair Strokosch Shocked

(Perpignan), Ben Toolis, Hamish Watson (both Edinburgh Rugby), Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors).

BACKS: Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar, (Glasgow Warriors) Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby), Stuart Hogg, Peter Horne (both Glasgow Warriors) Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester), Sean Lamont, Sean Maitland, Henry Pyrgos, Finn Russell (all Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors), Greig Tonks, Tim Visser (both Edinburgh Rugby).

Unavailable through injury: Adam Ashe (neck), Chris Fusaro (ankle), Grant Gilchrist (arm), Tyrone Holmes (face), Ruaridh Jackson (knee), Duncan Taylor (hamstring), Duncan Weir (arm).

by **BigGee** Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:48 pm

George Carlin wrote:Stroker was very good on the mad summer tour and can put in a brick wall shift defensively, which is what Vern wants. Who knows what kind of shape he is in. That's what training camps are for. If the big baldy is blowing out of his arse after a cardio session, it will show.

Incidentally, who are Vern's assistant coaches?

I don't think fitness will be Stroks problem per say, he looks after himself. It will more be just getting back up to the speed and physicality of international rugby, which he will have fallen away from in D2 France, though that is still a reasonable standard no doubt.

He is only likely to start if we have serious injury issues, the no 6 shirt currently belongs to Harley. It is hard to see him staying in the squad once Ashe gets fit and Strauss qualifies. Any doubts about whether he will be brought straight into the team can clearly be dispelled after seeing his lack of qualm about picking Blake. Stroks will put in a shift if required, but hard to see him making the final WC cut.

by **BigGee** Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:08 pm

Interview with Kelly Brown on BBC Scotland

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30922761

He talks about a long conversation with VC, a 'good conversation' he describes it as. He also talks about not giving up and wanting to get back into the Scotland team. I think we all know that KB is one of the good guys who will be there for us if we need him. It also says a lot about VC that he spent a bit of time talking to him about what he wanted from him as a player. He has got his reason for not picking him and clearly is not ruling him out permanently.

by **RDW** Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:29 pm

It all sounds very positive, but it's all got to be taken with a pinch of salt - he's not going to come out bad mouthing the regime is he?

Also, no one anywhere has mentioned a similar thing happening with Barclay - Cotter deliberately only said they'd spoken to Brown about it. It could have happened of course...

by **BigGee** Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:49 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:It all sounds very positive, but it's all got to be taken with a pinch of salt - he's not going to come out bad mouthing the regime is he?

Also, no one anywhere has mentioned a similar thing happening with Barclay - Cotter deliberately only said they'd spoken to Brown about it. It could have happened of course...

Nor should he bad mouth the regime, he is an ex Scottish captain who clearly still wishes to play for his country. If he does not play again, I would guess he has enough life experience to realise that he lived the dream and to be philosophical about it. However that's pretty much what JB has done. If they did not speak to him then maybe that's why.

by **George Carlin** Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:54 pm

Mike Blair interesting as ever on BBC:

There are times when a Six Nations squad is selected and you can see the way in which a team are going to try to play, or particular traits and characteristics that individuals require to be part of that side.

Within Scotland's forward group, there is a leaning towards physicality over ball-playing ability, with Johnnie Beattie appearing to be the biggest casualty of this.

Beattie will carry the ball well, has the hands of a three-quarter and certainly makes his tackles, but it seems that he isn't the style of player that head coach Vern Cotter wants right now.

You get the impression that a hard-nosed Rob Harley or Alasdair Strokosch is more to his taste for the dark arts of international rugby.

I just hope that the balance is there and the team can continue to progress from a very solid autumn series, when the footballing ability of the Gray brothers in particular paid dividends.

The main positives to come from the November tests involved the running game off Greig Laidlaw at scrum-half, but to move the game on, Scotland must become equally comfortable running off 10, which is a very different skill, and hopefully they will have the personnel to do this.

Hamish Watson and Hugh Blake slip into the "bolters" category, having barely figured in any discussion on Six Nations selection outside of the coaches' room. However, both have a lot about them.

Watson has raw pace and looks like a horrible person to tackle - like you'd always bump your head on his knee or get a dead leg when tackling - and has the breakdown skills of a natural open-side to boot. He will play through the contact in attack.

Blake could win his first Scotland cap before his Edinburgh debut, and the public might not know his name, let alone his style, but the fact he's involved this early shows how highly the man from Otago Highlanders is regarded. He's different from Watson in that he has a bit more finesse than just raw athleticism but he's equally efficient in the contact.

The backs are starting to have a fairly settled look about them. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne has been rewarded for his form over the past month. He has speed of thought and a turn of pace to match, but most significantly (due to Finn Russell and fellow scrum-half Laidlaw being the only other front-line kickers), his goal-kicking stats are starting to tickle the 80% mark.

Chris Cusiter will feel aggrieved to miss out, but the reality is if Laidlaw were to go down injured before the Six Nations opener against France, then Cusiter would have as good a chance as the others to start that match in Paris.

Duncan Weir's injury opens the door for Greig Tonks, who deserves his inclusion. A big left boot working in tandem with another right-footed option is a wonderful tool to have as it opens up both sides of the pitch. His ability to cover full-back too will give Cotter more options when naming his 23 for match day.

So no real surprises and you'd be fairly confident of picking Cotter's starting team to take the field at the Stade de France on 7 February, but there is certainly enough waiting in the wings to keep the players on their toes.

Cotter has re-affirmed his desire to play to traditional Scottish traits: attacking with ferocity, destabilising the opposition and trying to play smart rugby.

He has a plan and the selection definitely appears to match it.

by **RDW** Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:10 am

It will be interesting to see what happens if Harley or Strokosh gets injured.

Surely if Kieran Low or Ryan Wilson are called up to cover 6 over Brown then there really is more to it? How many people would have to be injured for Brown to get picked?

Low is just plain average and not an International class forward, and is not even starting for London Irish, and Wilson certainly doesn't fit in the blindside role that Cotter likes in Harley and Strokosh.

by jimbopip Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:57 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens if Harley or Strokosh gets injured.

How many people would have to be injured for Brown to get picked?

I've got a feeling that if you, me, Kellybrows and Rab C Johnson were sitting in the hospitality suite at Murrayfield when Harley and Strokes were rushed to A&E due to losing consciousness in a breath-holding contest Jamesie Cotter would look round the door and ask Kellybrows to,"Nip up to my office and wait for me there would you."
Then he would throw a pair of boots on the table and say, "First to get them on can play."

by tigertattie Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:30 am

I think the general concensus is that if Rab C is still footering about with the sqaud selections then this is very very bad for Scottish rugby.

by EWT Spoons Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:21 am

Well it’s been emotional since the squad was announced and it’s taken a while but I’ve got over the shock of Kellybrows and Barclay being left out in favour of Blake and Stroker. Having had time to calm down and reflect, I’m assuming the like of Blake will be with the squad purely for the experience rather than to play. As others have said here, nothing against the lad and I hope when he does get his first cap for Scotland he show’s why BVC has called him up, and goes onto have a long and very successful career with Edinburgh and Scotland.

In terms of starting 15/24 from the squad selected, I’d like to see something along these lines:

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Murray (Cross for Sunday games)
4. Gray
5. Gray
6. Harley
7. Cowan
8. Denton
9. Laidlaw
10. Russell
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Dunbar
14. Seymour
15. Maitland

16. Reid
17. Brown
18. Welsh
19. Sam HC
20. Tonks
21. Toolis
22. Watson
23. Lamont

Figure with those subs we should be covered for most scenarios given Lamont, Sam HC and Tonks have played near enough every position in the backline between them.

It's a decent side (i think) so hopefully Big Vern will make the most of them and get us a few wins.

by teh_Dingmeister Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:20 pm

The Scottish squad is still quite short at 8 though, if Denton gets injured then presumably Wilson would be the next choice when he returns from injury/court hearing. However from watching him at Glasgow he doesn't seem to have the skill level or bulk to really impose himself on a game and looks lightweight in contact.

by EWT Spoons Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:29 pm

I think BVC has said that Beattie and Brown could still be called up, and Ashe is coming back from injury as well. So there are other options at 8 who could yet be called up if needed

by **George Carlin** Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:59 pm

Very interesting that lots of people seem to be automatically favouring Sam HC over Henners Piecrust and Jazzy Geoff instead of Jon Welsh.

by **RDW** Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:00 pm

I'd take pyrgos over Sammy, but Welsh has done nothing over the last month or so to convince me he'll do a better job for Scotland.

by cakeordeath Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:11 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'd take pyrgos over Sammy, but Welsh has done nothing over the last month or so to convince me he'll do a better job for Scotland.

I thought Welsh scrummaged well against Montpellier. I am actually more concerned about Murray, who has been underwhelming since coming back to Glasgow

by highland_scot Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:16 pm

I'm 2 minds about TH prop (not helped by having previously been a SH and having no idea how scrums work apart from ball goes in and comes out Shocked

) - Guess the debate between Dr Cross and Angela hinges on what you want from your benched front row.

If you want someone to come on and shore up the scrum, put pressure on the opposition and grind out a win then Welsh is probably the smart choice. If you're after a human wrecking ball with decent handling and a knack for scoring tries to come on and make an impact in the loose against tired defence then Cross fits the bill nicely. Saying that, I can't remember many times when his scrummaging has let us down. Reid fits this bill quite well on the LH side as well.

Regarding scrumhalves, I think Henners is still the better player and always seems to make an immediate impact when he comes on. However, he can become pretty slow in his delivery and spends a lot of time shouting at forwards whilst the ball is at the base of the ruck. SHC doesn't seem to be as bad for this. Both of their passes leave something to be desired, with the backs taking the ball off their feet, above their head etc.

That said, SHC's attitude and team spirit looks great and his bossing of the forwards (and the opposition) at maul time is very impressive - more so than HP. He seems like a sneaky git who will p*ss off the opposition a lot, which you want from your 9! It would also be interesting to see how he can play without Solly's kick it tactics.

So I think either would be a decent choice and would not be disappointed either way.

by **BigGee** Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:30 pm

I think S H-C is in the squad for experience, his time will come, but probably not in this 6N baring injuries. I think Welsh went pretty well against Montpellier as well, especially as he went for 75 mins, not something he normally does. He has taken a while to get up to speed after coming back from a long lay off, but seems to be getting there. Both Murray and Welsh are ahead of Cross in my book, but at least we have three decent options and they can all do a job.

by cakeordeath Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:32 pm

BigGee wrote:I think S H-C is in the squad for experience, his time will come, but probably not in this 6N baring injuries. I think Welsh went pretty well against Montpellier as well, especially as he went for 75 mins, not something he normally does. He has taken a while to get up to speed after coming back from a long lay off, but seems to be getting there. Both Murray and Welsh are ahead of Cross in my book, but at least we have three decent options and they can all do a job.

Cross should win on beard alone though

by **RDW** Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:45 pm

Greig Laidlaw has been rested from Gloucester's dead rubber game this weekend, so at least we hopefully won't have to find a new captain before the first game has been played!

by **George Carlin** Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:57 pm

Yes, by all accounts SHC is faster and more snipey than Pyrgos but Henry has 13 caps on him and that has to count for something. What is a cool head at 9 worth?

I go back and forth between Welsh and Cross. I think that Cross is a better technician but Welsh is a stronger man (although not fully fit yet, I don't think). On balance, Cross' spectacular beard makes me laugh every time, so I would probably go with him for that reason:

Scotland 6N lookahead - Page 14 Catwea11

Scotland 6N lookahead - Page 14 Catwea11

Cross Catweazle

by funnyExiledScot Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:10 pm

George Carlin wrote:Yes, by all accounts SHC is faster and more snipey than Pyrgos but Henry has 13 caps on him and that has to count for something. What is a cool head at 9 worth?

Woah there cowboy!! Don't get all "experience matters" on me after all these years......

by **George Carlin** Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:11 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Yes, by all accounts SHC is faster and more snipey than Pyrgos but Henry has 13 caps on him and that has to count for something. What is a cool head at 9 worth?

Woah there cowboy!! Don't get all "experience matters" on me after all these years......

Scotland 6N lookahead - Page 14 2gwb9210

by **RDW** Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:12 pm

Lamont has 90 caps, but you wouldn't pick him over Seymour would you...! Whistle

by **RDW** Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:18 pm

p.s. yes I know the difference in that case is that Seymour has a decent amount of caps, but I just fancied another dig at Lamont!

by teh_Dingmeister Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:33 pm

Crazy idea here but does anyone think that Lamont might be able to extend his career by moving to the forwards as a 6/8? It'd probably be even less successful than the Vernon at 13 experiment but at a base level he has the size and strength to make a decent go at it and he wouldn't be completely clueless at the breakdown after his years of experience. Would probably end up still having worse hands than a number of them though!

by tigertattie Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:42 pm

I'd actually have no issue with Sean playing at 6. He is a big mobile unit and his tackling is great. He'd hit folk all day. take the ball into contact. clear out rucks. Basically, be an effective 6.

His only issue is he wouldn't be as good a 6 as harley or his eyebrowness.

He'd quickly become a very useful utility player for the bench covering wing, centre, fullback and back row!

He has played in the 6 position a few times for Scotland when we've had injuries or yellow cards during a game!

by teh_Dingmeister Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:53 pm

Interesting to hear that he has played at 6 before, wasn't aware of that. Would definitely have Harley or KB in front of him as it's their natural game. Harley in particular was Scotland's most consistent player of the AIs.

Wonder whether he's talked to Toonie about it as I'm guessing the last time he did play 6 was a while ago. He seems to be able to offload well enough but passing accurately and consistently is just a bit beyond him.

by EWT Spoons Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:10 pm

I went for SHC on the bench purely for the number of options he gives us.

During his short career, he’s played on the wing, at 10 and at FB. I don’t know for sure, but I reckon he’s probably played in midfield as well at some point, so if we get an injury nearly anywhere in the backs he could provide an option.

Granted not the best of reasons to pick someone, but he’s been doing a good job at 9 for Edinburgh and I think given his natural style is to run with the ball and given his pace, I think he could be a good bench option, under the heads up style BVC wants us to play.

by **RDW** Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:12 pm

EWT Spoons wrote: under the heads up style BVC wants us to play.

I've seen that a few times now - what's the B in BVC? Headscratch

by tigertattie Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:40 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote: under the heads up style BVC wants us to play.

I've seen that a few times now - what's the B in BVC?

I think it is "Big Vern Cotter" idea

Or maybe in light of Rab C's influencing the squad selections, it could be "backboneless Vern Cotter"?

by **RDW** Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:15 pm

I thought it might be 'baldy' but no one wanted to spell it out cause we're all scared of him...

by teh_Dingmeister Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:27 pm

Scotland 6N lookahead - Page 14 B7zdQxBCQAATeX2

Stern Vern has made up his mind

by TJ Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:44 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote: under the heads up style BVC wants us to play.

I've seen that a few times now - what's the B in BVC?

Scotland 6N lookahead - Page 14 Big-Vern-design-flat-white

by TJ Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:46 pm

My feeling on the killer Bs - brown is a near miss on selection and could get a chance again. Barclay has been seen to be a disruptive influence and his days are over.

by MacKnocked-on Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:16 am

Interesting to read in the Scotsman today that Maitland wants to play fullback rather than wing when he moves to London Irish, he thinks it's his best position. Given that he and Hogg are two of Scotland's better backs and that arguably Visser and Seymour are the most potent wingers then which of he and Hogg is likely to miss out on being in the starting 15?
Both have different strengths to offer the team, Maitland probably being the most defensively solid of the two with Hogg probably the most elusive. There has been talk in the past of Hogg at 13 but we now have Dunbar, Scott and Bennett as options there so really no need to consider Hogg out of position.
What do fellow 606ers think, who will be the one who finds himself on the subs bench?

by funnyExiledScot Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:01 pm

Based on what we saw of Maitland at 15 when Hogg was injured, Hogg by a country mile. He has better accelaration (albeit I suspect that Maitland is quicker over medium/long distances), a better passing and kicking game and a bit more spike to his game.

The real question for me is whether Maitland or Bennett go on the Scotland bench. Maitland covers the back three, Bennett covers 13 (wing at a push). With Weir out it looks like Tonks is cover at 10, which for me would mean Bennett is best suited as bench replacement (as Tonks can cover 15).

9.Laidlaw 10.Russell 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Dunbar 14.Seymour 15.Hogg

21.Pyrgos 22.Tonks 23.Bennett

Maitland's best chance of breaking through would be for (a) Visser to return to his jessie ways in defence, (b) Seymour to get injured, (c) either to suffer loss of attacking form, (d) Maitland to actually score some tries. It's in his hands really.

by tigertattie Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:27 pm

What do Ross Ford, Euan Murray, Ritchie Gray, Geoff Cross and Sean Maitland all have in common?

by **RDW** Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:29 pm

Same number of tries for Scotland?

by alive555 Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:32 pm

scoring records

caps (% games per try)
visser 38.89%
seymour 38.46%
hogg 24.69%
maitland 11.11%

by funnyExiledScot Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:52 pm

tigertattie wrote:What do Ross Ford, Euan Murray, Ritchie Gray, Geoff Cross and Sean Maitland all have in common?

All blokes?

by Majestic83 Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:54 pm

teh_Dingmeister wrote:Crazy idea here but does anyone think that Lamont might be able to extend his career by moving to the forwards as a 6/8? It'd probably be even less successful than the Vernon at 13 experiment but at a base level he has the size and strength to make a decent go at it and he wouldn't be completely clueless at the breakdown after his years of experience. Would probably end up still having worse hands than a number of them though!

Think Glasgow must have been reading this and saw your idea. Lamont is named as back row replacement for Glasgow against Bath, they are struggling with injuries in the pack but I agree and have thought for a long time Lamont would make a very good back rower and probably has been more suited to that position. If he gets on in the back row will be interesting to see how he goes. Notice as well that Fraser Brown is playing openside due to all Glasgows injuries.

by funnyExiledScot Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:28 pm

He'd nail the ball carrying duties and he's certainly slow enough!

by tigertattie Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:09 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Same number of tries for Scotland?

RDW wins the prize!

The prize is a night out in the gorbals with GC

by funnyExiledScot Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:36 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Same number of tries for Scotland?

RDW wins the prize!

The prize is a night out in the gorbals with GC

Live every moment as if it were your last.....

by **RDW** Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:39 pm

Wait a minute, how come GC gets to go to a sophisticated, civilised location full of pleasant people and I have to go to feckin Glasgow??

by tigertattie Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:41 pm

It's like a culture exchange program!

by funnyExiledScot Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:15 pm

Culture in Glasgow?

by **RDW** Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:24 pm

Glasgow has culture apparently, but I think it's the name of a nightclub or something...

by **George Carlin** Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:28 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Culture in Glasgow?

In the petri-dish sense, yes.

by **RDW** Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:41 pm

Sam hidalgo-clyne firmly laying down the gauntlet to pyrgos after an outstanding motm performance tonight!

by **BigGee** Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:19 pm

Sammy sure had a good game, its up to Henry tomorrow to reply.

Toolis looks better and better as well and has got to be looking for a bench spot. Watson as well, another hungry young player who looks like he has a future in blue.

Tonks played well tonight and kicked much better than he has on other games at FH, he seems to be finding his confidence. I have to say as well that Jade Te Rure looked pretty tidy when he was on the pitch as well. Not expecting a call up for him but he is certainly one to bear in mind. Certainly worth thinking about tying him down on a contract. He is a kid who should only get better.

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