Survivor Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Obviously)

by Dr Gregory House MD Mon 24 Nov - 11:58

First topic message reminder :

Doesn't look like anyone's been around to stick the chat box on tonight, so here's somewhere to chat about SS if people feel so inclined Smile

by Brilliant_yep Mon 24 Nov - 14:43

If Ziggler wins it's all worth it.

by **owen10ozzy** Mon 24 Nov - 14:44

Just to point out...Rollins and Dolph were out of the ring for 26 seconds then lol! Erm double count out surely?

by Brilliant_yep Mon 24 Nov - 14:44

Logic isn't welcome in this match.

by Brilliant_yep Mon 24 Nov - 14:46

These two are shining.

by **owen10ozzy** Mon 24 Nov - 14:48

Most ridiculous thing ever. the worst booking!

by NickisBHAFC Mon 24 Nov - 14:48

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

by NickisBHAFC Mon 24 Nov - 14:49

ITS Frak STING

by NickisBHAFC Mon 24 Nov - 14:50

I'VE GOT GOOSEBUMPS!!!!!

by Dr Gregory House MD Mon 24 Nov - 14:50

oh ffs, where is Frak Orton

by Brilliant_yep Mon 24 Nov - 14:51

Why is Cole calling him Stinger

by Brilliant_yep Mon 24 Nov - 14:51

Would have much preferred Orton,this is a lead balloon for me.

by NickisBHAFC Mon 24 Nov - 14:52

F*ck it. I have loved this match. Who cares about logical booking!!!!

by NickisBHAFC Mon 24 Nov - 14:54

What a night for Dolph Ziggler!

by Brilliant_yep Mon 24 Nov - 14:54

Why couldn't Cena come back and done that if it was that easy?

by Looseheaded Mon 24 Nov - 14:55

that was awesome. beyond stupid, beyond logic, beyond reason. but just utterly fantastic.

My thinking is Cena hell turn leads to him bringing HHH back to face Sting at WM 31

also i honestly think that Ziggler may be getting somewhere in WWE, he's been booked so strongly for a few months now, even how HHH has spoken to/about him in promos has made it sound as if he still can be one of the future top guys

by Dr Gregory House MD Mon 24 Nov - 14:55

Well that was a spectacular assault on the sense's, I'd have taken Orton over Sting any day of the week, would have made something vaguely resembling sense, but overall I enjoyed it, the last hour just flew by

by **owen10ozzy** Mon 24 Nov - 14:55

You don't care about logical booking atm; but you will when it comes to tomorrow and explaining everything. Regardless of the quality of the match, and there were some high spots, it was just horrendous booking. Everything about that stunk of a company being chopped at it's knee's and just doing whatever to try and get more subscribers.

by Brilliant_yep Mon 24 Nov - 14:56

Loving Ziggler having his Survivor Series moment thanks to 'Stinger' which opens up Cena heel turn bringing HHH back

by Dr Gregory House MD Mon 24 Nov - 14:56

owen10ozzy wrote:You don't care about logical booking atm; but you will when it comes to tomorrow and explaining everything. Regardless of the quality of the match, and there were some high spots, it was just horrendous booking. Everything about that stunk of a company being chopped at it's knee's and just doing whatever to try and get more subscribers.

I love you Owen, don't ever change

by Dr Gregory House MD Mon 24 Nov - 14:57

Right, I've got to be up for work in 2 hours, so night boys and girls

by NickisBHAFC Mon 24 Nov - 14:57

That was brilliant. I loved it.

by **owen10ozzy** Mon 24 Nov - 14:58

Orton vs Sting? Legend Killer gimmick would suit it...

I don't see how they write HHH back into it now (although given what we just saw I'm sure he could come out tomorrow and we wouldn't hear a mention of the fact he's lost power)...

Sting must be the new GM?

Haha I actually enjoyed it Dr; just in terms of having a discussion, me saying oh it was great does nothing. And in the long term that was nothing but detrimental to the product in my opinion!

by **owen10ozzy** Mon 24 Nov - 14:59

What were they chanting then?

by Brilliant_yep Mon 24 Nov - 15:02

So HHH to wrestle for control of the company at WM

by Brilliant_yep Mon 24 Nov - 15:02

'You got fired' Owen

by **owen10ozzy** Mon 24 Nov - 15:05

HHH vs Sting (Representing Vince)
Cena vs Rusev
Brock vs Reigns
Orton vs Rollins
Ambrose vs ???

Really feel Ziggler needs and deserves a big mania moment...perhaps even have him vs HHH..

by Kay Fabe Mon 24 Nov - 23:09

Just watched the Main Event, possibly the best Survivor Series match I've ever watched, was just utterly frantic and very enjoyable, it had everything and considering what was at stake then I think "logic" can fly out the window on certain occassions, Dolph Ziggler has finally arrived, he must be given the Superkick now, I've felt for years that that sinple tweak would propel him and its now or never after that

by Guest Mon 24 Nov - 23:11

Just watched the main event. I mean what the hell was going on? So Big Show eliminates Mark Henry immediately, knocks out John Cena, Shakes HHH's hand and walks out? As Comic Book Guy would say "Worst Heel Turn Ever!" what was the point?? It's like the WWE/WCW match of 13 years ago!

Great to see Ziggler as the sole survivor. Hope the WWE push him to the moon and back. Step aside Reigns, this guy needs to win the big one!

As for Sting. So it was 2 minutes of standing and circling before HHH decided to swing for him? Even a Death Drop and pinfall later it was screaming an RKO.

Just bizarre. Then that is modern WWE for you.

by **Crimey** Tue 25 Nov - 0:16

I genuinely can't believe the positive reception to that show, that was one of the worst pay per views WWE has put on for a very long time. I felt the only match I really enjoyed was the first tag team match which was a good opening match. There were ridiculous filler matches on a pay per view, that is unacceptable. Why they had the unannounced match with the Bunny etc on a pay-per-view that was supposed to sell the Network I have no idea, it was an awful decision and an awful match. The four-man elimination divas match was absolutely atrocious, it's got to go down as one of the worst matches they've had, so many botches, weird booking involving making the faces look so dominant, very strange. Missed the other Divas match for a toilet break, assuming AJ Lee is gone.

The Wyatt/Ambrose match was underwhelming and I didn't expect much considering Wyatt has had very few good matches and I'm not sure Ambrose-style in the ring would compliment him. The match was poor, Wyatt was literally buried and that has got to be a deliberate thing considering how much the commentators repeated the line...Wyatt has been buried. Made Wyatt look stupid and I don't understand why the end went on so long, I assumed that Ambrose was stalling for something, but it turned out nope, that was it.

The main event would have been a lot better had the rest of the PPV not killed any enthusiasm I had for the show. They promised an unforgettable night, and it was unforgettable for all the wrong reasons. Ziggler came out looking great, but felt that was pandering to the internet crowd rather than based on a genuine attempt to push him. Rollins was the star of the match. Felt Big Show was given too big of a role in it, he's totally unnecessary and can't believe he is still such a big part of the WWE. The Knock-out punch was ridiculous and the heel-turn a joke. How many times will WWE turn Big Show heel or face before they realise nobody cares? Only last year they were doing the same story of Big Show knocking out people to protect his job from The Authority. I was disappointed at the use of Harper and even Rowan who while they teased some things were underutilised. Cena was really bad, the way it was booked was strange, why Cena would immediately leave rather than cheer on Ziggler, only to come out at the end. The use of Ryback screams of them going off on him...after 2 WEEKS! Crazy. Kane was fine, as was Rusev, who they obviously had to get out of the match without making him be pinned or submitted, he looked a little silly though.

The Sting reveal was a massive underwhelming moment, so clear somebody was going to come out and a lot of the other possibilities, even if it was Orton or Reigns would have been better than Sting. He's been in TNA for the past ten years and been awful, he's old, fat and slow and I genuinely don't believe he can offer anything to WWE now. I didn't want him as an on-screen character, I can only hope that he won't have a match (which he definitely will). He'd have been better off used to promote WCW on the Network, maybe have a guest host appearance and a Hall of Fame introduction. As an active member, he offers so little, just like he offered TNA so little for the last five years, at least!

I would give that pay per view at most 2/10 and felt totally underwhelmed and frustrated that I bothered to waste my time with it. I think since Wrestlemania 30, almost all of the pay per views have been either really good or decent, but that was genuinely awful. No draw for me to watch Raw, no draw to watch TLC, doesn't even make me want to watch the Rumble or Road to Wrestlemania. If any of you here in the UK paid for that, I feel sorry for you. Wasn't even worth the free Network subscription.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 25 Nov - 3:05

Got to say, sense aside, that Main Event was amazing. It felt very Attitude era in that you just had to accept it cos it was so fun.

Got to also disagree that there is no draw to watch Raw or TLC, let alone the rest.

Something about that match worked. The right guy was the survivor, the spots were good, the pace was good, the eliminations all kinda worked and they were done well. Rusev was protected, Ryback got to look strong but they needed to also eliminate him in a frantic way to protect him. A little early, but with the turn coming from Show it had to be how it was. The Show turning is slightly boring, but I suppose it makes sense in context of the story given how he was a patsy before. Not brilliant, but I suppose it was a decent double bluff as you assumed Show's turn was gonna be the key point, but actually it was nothing.

I even feel the Sting part worked, although Orton might have been better. It just wouldnt have been as big news as Sting. No doubt about it, Sting stepping foot in the WWE is big news. It needs a decent promo to explain it.

Wasnt as sour on the Ambrose/Wyatt match either. Thought it delivered in many ways, the commentators helping at times; it was about beating each other up. The clotheslines were stiff as hell but it added to it. Its the one time where a DQ actually made sense too.

The tag match was decent although I'm not a fan of the result. Its obvious where this is going and I think with two people like that its done better through failure than success.

Rose, Divas, my god they were bad. Fandango's new gimmick being hes more serious and a bit latino - incredibly creative

by kingraf Tue 25 Nov - 3:33

To be fair. Show has an ironclad contract. He can do what he wants. This evening he should knockout Hunter just to prove he doesn't give a phuck.

by **Crimey** Tue 25 Nov - 3:34

The problem with the main event for me is the hype they had surrounded Survivor Series with, a lot more than they normally do, and the fact that the rest of the PPV had been so bad meant the main event had to be truly special to make up for it, and it wasn't. It was decent.

by Brilliant_yep Tue 25 Nov - 3:36

I think the only thing that spoilt it for me was that they expected me to suspend disbelief with far too many things to make it plausible, that's the only way I can explain how I feel about it.

by Samo Tue 25 Nov - 3:51

I enjoyed this episode of RAW. I think the main event dragged this PPV up to a solid 7/10.

I hate the multiple team tag team formula, it doesnt make any sense unless its elimination. Wyatt vs Ambrose was a pretty decent match with a good high tempo until it became and advert for TLC.

The main event was just excellent. One of the best Survivor Series matches in recent memory and one of the best matches of the year. Everyone got the chance to shine (apart from Henry). They can explain Big Shows turn easily because Cena never bothered to try and help anytime his team members got beat down, its a simple explanation.

I am so happy Dolph went over the way he did, he's tapping that glass ceiling again, and im sure he'll smash it and win the WWE title in 2015. I'd put my house on it. And I think Michael Cole did a good job of keeping the focus on Ziggler even after Sting arrived.

All that aside, WWE should be glad that was a free PPV. If I had paid $60 for that I would be Frak outraged.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 25 Nov - 7:57

All that being said, Sting's debut is probably one of the most unique moments in WWE and will be remembered forever. I don't think there's many returns or debuts that will get that kind of pop ever again. I think the only one left is Austin, and it would have to be in similar circumstances, coming out with a purpose, rather than just a segment. Punk might also get it too, especially if it was a shock and in Chicago.

by **Crimey** Tue 25 Nov - 9:03

Is it?

For somebody my age Sting is not a big deal, he was in TNA for nearly 10 years and he was awful, I never saw him have a good match, cut a good promo or even have a meaningful presence. Why him being in WWE instead, even older, fatter, balder, should be a big deal?

I appreciate the significance of him finally appearing in the company but I don't want to see him, for me he has nothing to offer at all. It's not the same as The Rock or Brock Lesnar coming back, they're significantly younger, fitter, more valuable outside of the wrestling sphere and have not spent the past ten years reducing their value in TNA.

It was also pretty much known that Sting was appearing at the pay per view which really reduced its impact, you'd think WWE would have made more of an effort to keep it quiet if it was supposed to be so huge, to increase its impact. I didn't even take it as a big pop, the crowd gave a lethargic cheer, this view might change on a rewatch but live I didn't feel the crowd gave a big reaction, they were louder for Mizdow earlier in the night.

Survivor Series for me will probably only go down in memory for me as an awful pay per view, having matches I'd be annoyed that they were on Raw with an underwhelming "swerve" at the end.

by Gerry SA Tue 25 Nov - 9:04

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:All that being said, Sting's debut is probably one of the most unique moments in WWE and will be remembered forever. I don't think there's many returns or debuts that will get that kind of pop ever again. I think the only one left is Austin, and it would have to be in similar circumstances, coming out with a purpose, rather than just a segment. Punk might also get it too, especially if it was a shock and in Chicago.

IMO the best WWF debut was Kane's at Bad Blood

by liverbnz Tue 25 Nov - 9:36

So much for WWE fans not knowing who Sting is eh? Crowd went bananas for him!

I'm a Sting mark so I loved that he finally made his debut last night. It doesn't matter that he's old and can't really go anymore or even that he's been in TNA for whatever, he's an icon of the business and that was a 'moment' in wrestling that will never be forgotten.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 25 Nov - 9:54

Crimey wrote:Is it?

For somebody my age Sting is not a big deal, he was in TNA for nearly 10 years and he was awful, I never saw him have a good match, cut a good promo or even have a meaningful presence. Why him being in WWE instead, even older, fatter, balder, should be a big deal?

I appreciate the significance of him finally appearing in the company but I don't want to see him, for me he has nothing to offer at all. It's not the same as The Rock or Brock Lesnar coming back, they're significantly younger, fitter, more valuable outside of the wrestling sphere and have not spent the past ten years reducing their value in TNA.

It was also pretty much known that Sting was appearing at the pay per view which really reduced its impact, you'd think WWE would have made more of an effort to keep it quiet if it was supposed to be so huge, to increase its impact. I didn't even take it as a big pop, the crowd gave a lethargic cheer, this view might change on a rewatch but live I didn't feel the crowd gave a big reaction, they were louder for Mizdow earlier in the night.

Survivor Series for me will probably only go down in memory for me as an awful pay per view, having matches I'd be annoyed that they were on Raw with an underwhelming "swerve" at the end.

It was also known that Orton, Reigns and other surprises would appear. You'd also have to be the type of person who reads spoilers, which I'm now not one of.

I want him to have one match and feud. I think it will be big, just really big. Legacy and presence mean so much to a feud, and he has both.

And you should watch some of the vids, the place went mad for Sting. I found it rather huge, its quite historic. As a wrestling fan, I dont think anyone will forget that event. Its a big deal cos of who he is and his significance.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 25 Nov - 9:57

Bray Wyatt could do with having similar treatment to Mankind. That Jim Ross interview was a masterstroke. The character can have such such depth but he needs to be given the chance, which I'm not sure can happen in those promos any more

by **Crimey** Tue 25 Nov - 10:20

I will remember the event as being totally underwhelming. I feel without the benefit of nostalgia, Sting really isn't that good. Especially considering unlike the likes of Austin or other stars of that era WWE haven't really built him up over the past 13 years.

I genuinely am not interested in whatever they have planned for Sting, I can't remember ever seeing a good match that he has had anytime recently. I am dreading that they will have him face Undertaker, that will be awful. Triple H is a mild improvement but not something I have any interest in.

As for Wyatt I think this is just what was always going to happen, his gimmick is limited in who he can face and for me he's shown a remarkable lack of imagination when it comes to his character and the promos delivered, whether this is the writers or Wyatt himself the promo content has been the same since his feud with Kane, it was the same with Bryan, the same with Cena and now the same with Ambrose. I also feel he's losing his aura, he hasn't looked good for a while and his mid-match promo made him only look more human with his use of 'maaaan' and the worst thing Wyatt can do is look more human, then he's just a fat joke really.

A big issue Wyatt has, other than that he hasn't been booked to look strong since he beat Bryan at the Royal Rumble, is that he's not very good in the ring in my opinion. His move-set is limited and I'm not sure he has good enough ring psychology a character like his demands. I don't see Wyatt becoming a legendary character in the same way Undertaker, Mankind or Jake 'The Snake' Roberts are, I think he's nearing his final chances as Bray Wyatt because if he can't make feuds against Bryan, Cena or Ambrose work it's just not going to work.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 25 Nov - 11:08

Oh, I think he had obvious limits the minute he debuted, but you can work round these things with a little imagination. I think the minds writing for Raw don't have that nowadays, not in the sense he needs anyway. How many characters have any depth? I actually think he wrestled a pretty good match considering the story. The clotheslines he hit were exceptional; the match was stiff, a bit brutal and quite like a fight without being Mark Henry vs Big Show levels of punch punch slow.

I'm not sure how good Sting was, but he is a legend and by resisting Vince's overtures for so long he has made himself more of a legend than any WCW guy did.

by **Crimey** Tue 25 Nov - 12:09

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I'm not sure how good Sting was, but he is a legend and by resisting Vince's overtures for so long he has made himself more of a legend than any WCW guy did.

I would totally agree if it wasn't for the fact that he was in TNA and poor in TNA for so long.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed 26 Nov - 0:55

TNA doesnt exist to most people.

by **Hero** Wed 26 Nov - 1:04

It's like Fight Club.

The first rule of TNA is if you were in TNA you don't talk about it.

by Adam D Wed 26 Nov - 1:06

Hero wrote:It's like Fight Club.

The first rule of TNA is if you were in TNA you don't talk about it.

Does anyone talk about it other than me?

by Mr H Wed 26 Nov - 1:41

The funny thing is, the legends like Sting, Hogan, Angle would get a massive reaction when/if they return in the WWE. The people who the TNA hardcore fans don't care much for. Whereas their darlings like Roode, Aries, Styles etc would barely get a reaction if they ever showed up in the WWE. They'd make Del Rio's reaction feel like The Rocks.

by Prometheus Wed 26 Nov - 2:01

Some random thoughts.

1. I'll believe that Ziggler will stay in the lead stories when I see it. It's not that long since Sandow won MitB or Cesaro won the WM Battle Royal.

2. Why bring out Daniel Bryan on the following night's Raw. He'd have got a much bigger pop than Sting and it would have made more sense in the story. Though injured I'm sure there's something he could have done, like pulling on a ref's shirt and doing the 1,2,3.

3. If the bunny is going to be Sami Zayn (other rumours also exist). Then why not have the reveal and big him up with some package of moves from NXT to sell that to the people new to the Network.

4. Why not sell more of the history of the Survivor Series. Again encourage those new to the Network to dig into the past and watch some of the content they have.

5. I wonder what the quarterly hours were for this. If people hadn't seen a PPV and were trying this I'm wondering how many gave up before the final bout because I thought some of the other stuff was pretty weak.

6. In terms of the Network I think the best this may achieve is that people who already watched the occasional PPV might feel that the Network offers value to keep doing that. But I don't think it will have transitioned the fans who aren't really that interested and were maybe just trying this for free for a month.

by Uryu Ishida Wed 26 Nov - 8:30

anyone see ziggler bonk his head on the steps when he avoided Rusev?

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