Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

The test series is eventually getting underway tomorrow, under extraordinary circumstances.
The death of Phillip Hughes is a massive tragedy for the game, but alas, we have to move on, and in a way, what better way than actually getting back to playing the game, though the proposition would be a hugely demanding one for all the players involved. The first match of the restructured 4 test series is starting in Adelaide in a few hours, Adelaide that has been Hughes' adopted homeground for the past couple of seasons.
Though both skippers were under fitness issues leading up to the series start, Michael Clarke has recovered enough to lead the side while the Indians do not seem keen to take any chance with Mahendra Singh Dhoni's thumb, considering the up-coming world cup. So Virat Kohli will be leading India in a test for the first time as was originally scheduled, and wicketkeeper Wriddhiman Saha will be playing his 3rd test. India will be without Bhuvneshwar Kumar, their outstanding player of an otherwise disastrous series in England at least for the 1st couple of games due to an ankle injury.
how would events of the last few days reflect in the middle? What role would the bouncer play in the game and in the series? How different would be Kohli as a skipper to Dhoni? Will there be any bold selections like KL Rahul to open or Karn Sharma as the spinner from the Indians? Shane Watson and Mitchell Marsh playing together, what an interesting prospect that would be? Will Clarke be able to hold his increasingly rebelling body together? Which Mitchell Johnson will turn up for the game and series? Will the Indians do any better than what they managed in the last Australian tour?
Lets debate, and lets get back to the game.......

its one of the few tests in recent time...when no one has talked about pitch.

What is the pitch like in Adelaide......it's generally flat and spins a bit ? Brisbane and Perth are the fast and bouncy ones.....so India gets to start with a pitch that they would like.
win toss, bat first , put 500 runs....bring the spinner into play and win the test....then hand over to Dhoni to make it 3-1

Adelaide pitch normally does a bit on the first morning, flattens out in the afternoon, is great to bat on days 2 and 3, and then starts to turn more and more on days 4 and 5. Not usually any great pace, but it was quicker than usual last year's Ashes, and wonder if the same trend will continue here.

Can actually be a good toss to lose (team who wins it inevitably batted first) as if you can make early inroads in the morning you can keep the side batting first to a manageable score and build a big lead over days 2 and 3. Pretty much what England did in the previous Ashes (bowled Aus out on day 1 for 245, smashed 600+, bowled Aus out again before lunch on day 5).

Overall though still very much a bat-first pitch.

Your thoughts on Dhawan, msp? Personally think he doesn't have much of a long term Test future and its time to give Rahul a go, who looks technically much better. Dhawan can continue playing ODIs.
Also I'd give Rohit 2-3 tests in this series so that he can fail properly and be dropped forever rather than giving him the half-hearted opportunities like in England that would tempt them to go back to him again and again.

Can't wait for this series to start

Electric start by Warner.

Short and sweet, or something more substantial?

Fantastic emotion from the crowd when Clarke walked out to bat.

And what can i say about Warner. Proved me wrong from his early days. Now world class. His form and destruction of teams in the last eighteen months has put him on another level. Not looking forward to him coming to England next year.

Yet another scintillating century at nearly a run a ball. This one meant a lot. Could be a 370/4 day.

Ton up for Warner; just under run a ball pace.

I guess it were substantial after all!

India erratic; Australia breezy.

India has been positive.....aaron touching 150 and India handing debut to a genuine leg spinner who I believe has a lot of potential.

Warner is the contemporary Sehwag...take the game away as an opner when he clicks.

all that could have gone wrong for Ind, went wrong.....aus won the toss and Warner gets a 100

India need a good session with about 4 wickets after tea...they must bat positively also when their turn comes

the Aussie commentary is awful...English stand out like gold in comparison

ShankyCricket wrote:Your thoughts on Dhawan, msp? Personally think he doesn't have much of a long term Test future and its time to give Rahul a go, who looks technically much better. Dhawan can continue playing ODIs.
Also I'd give Rohit 2-3 tests in this series so that he can fail properly and be dropped forever rather than giving him the half-hearted opportunities like in England that would tempt them to go back to him again and again.

you after Vijay I remember
and after Rahane also
and after Ishant sharma also

KP_fan wrote:the Aussie commentary is awful...English stand out like gold in comparison

Nicholas, Warne and Taylor are far better than Healy and Chappel were

Missed the Warner innings but it sounded a fire cracker by all accounts. Pity about Clarke, but I'm not actually surprised. Shortened hamstrings (as happens when you have a tear) leads to the back overcompensating. Coupled with pre existing back issues, I'd say there was always a chance of it pulling up. Hopefully though it's just a spasm, and he can get back in there.

Australia are quite savage when they are on top. Still have nightmares about waking up to them having scored 450 in a day against us. Might have been at Adelaide as well.

If India can get ONE more, Aus will effectively be 360ish/7, Keep them under 450 and you have the best batting days... You can compete.

Ooh I type that and one doesn't carry

Actually effectively 350/6, not 7. Still, India have a sniff now.

25 000 in on a working day to watch the first day of this series.

In England, India were in the game in the first couple of games, down and almost out on day one here.
Those who are always on MS Dhoni's head for being defensive, you can see why. He doesn't have the bowling unit to be hyper-aggressive. When the opposition score 350-4 on day one, you are almost out of the game right then. Now without MS the batsman, will India get to 250 when Mitchell Johnson gets into the act?
Desperately hoping something clicks with the bowlers tomorrow and Australia somehow are shot out for 450, and then a couple of guys stand up in the batting unit to give them a challenge. Not expecting it though, Australia to get 600 with Smith getting a hundred, Clarke coming back to get his, and Mitch then smashing them around for a bit of fun before he gets going, India 5 down for not much by stumps is a much more likely scenario. And it looks like they'll be one bowler shot tomorrow, and its that man Varun Aaron, a serious potential, but always injured unfortunately.

Now it really is effectively 360/7. Big big opening for India.,

ShankyCricket wrote:Your thoughts on Dhawan, msp? Personally think he doesn't have much of a long term Test future and its time to give Rahul a go, who looks technically much better. Dhawan can continue playing ODIs.
Also I'd give Rohit 2-3 tests in this series so that he can fail properly and be dropped forever rather than giving him the half-hearted opportunities like in England that would tempt them to go back to him again and again.

Shanky had they gone for Rahul instead of Dhawan, I'd have called it a bold call and wouldn't have any issues with it either. But I wouldn't have done it for this game, already without Dhoni and Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Aaron and Shami not much experienced, and Karn on debut, and Rohit at 6. Would have given Dhawan a go to start with, but if he doesn't get going right away, would consider Rahul for the next test itself. Not writing Dhawan off though. He is not the conventional test opener, but if he can give quickish starts and be proactive against the bowlers regularly, and if he can deliver in half the games he plays, then I'd take that. Has to overcome technical issues and find a working method for himself in away conditions, something he hasn't managed as yet. So for me, he's on borrowed time in the test side at present.
As for Rohit, he's not going anywhere, I am telling you he's going to play one good knock in the series and the pundits will be hard at work on their keyboards, on how gracefully he edges in all the remaining innings!. He's one deadweight we'll have to live with throughout the series. Hope he proves me wrong though.......

At least Brad Haddin won't be there to torment our bowlers in the first innings.
Actually not a bad finish with the 2nd new ball, but Warner at the top created too much damage already, and Clarke and Smith have inflicted more, and both aren't done yet. With Aaron looking in trouble, and Johnson yet to come, 500 + is pretty much within Australia's reach even now.

Given the pitch, and our low expectations from India, and where Aus stood at tea time ( about 250-2 in 47 overs) and that Clarke may not bat in this inning.......354-6 makes it India's day.

test matches are about winning sessions......and Ind won the 3rd session, 4 wkts for a 105 runs in about 42 overs

what's diffrent....is India's attacking intent....starting from team selection...the spinner was picked for his attacking spin abilities, and not his batting.... the WK for his clean WK skill and not batting else it was temping to have better batter Nama Ojha in ...the fast bowelrs were picked and asked to bowl fast.....Kohli's "green-ness" as a test match captain showed but he is miles ahead of Dhoni in forcing issues in a test match I think.

if Ind win the the session tomm morning i.e keep Aus under 420 and go into lunch losing no more than a wicket...than the game will be even.

So India lost 2 sessions to 1 and need to win the next to make it even yet it was their day? KP_fan logic(TM)

Not KPf logic. Just how cricket works. It's not India's day, but it's pretty close. In fact, thinking about it, if Clarke doesn't bat again, it probably is India's day. 350/7 (effectively) is a very good score at the Adelaide Oval from an Indian perspective. They probably conceded fifty odd too much, but in test cricket, day one, seven wickets is a good haul. Moves the game along.

Well that being the case, if India win the next one they'll be ahead, logically.

If Clarke doesn't bat in this innings any more, then it can be said that India are very much alive in the game though the Australians, because of that score of 354, are just a head even now. Importantly for them, Smith is still there well settled, and Johnson is a proper bowling all-rounder. Harris and Siddle can bat, India's record against the lower order isn't great, Aaron has fitness concerns, and might not even bowl tomorrow, so though Australians have reasons to be unhappy with the end of the day situation of the game where they did let things slip in the last session, it still is India who will have to do the catching up tomorrow.
And most importantly, their batting will have to stand up and be counted against Johnson and co, that's where the big test is going to be.......

Dean Jones says he's been told Clarke will bat.

Kpfan, I don't remember me ever being 'after Rahane' in tests. Yes, in ltd overs cricket, he is yet to convince me although I'd have in my WC side.
Vijay, yes, I got that horribly wrong
I don't think you can anyone blame anyone for not rating Ishant. He has finally started delivering consistently after over 50 Tests of sustained mediocrity. I think 90% of the country was 'after' him before the Eng and NZ tours.

Here again, I'm not 'after' Dhawan but his technique gives me next to no confidence. He is not as gifted as a Sehwag or a Warner to play that way and get away with it. Nor does he seem to be the type who has the temperament to 'graft'. I'd be happy to be proven wrong but he just doesn't seem to be a test opener to me. Still if there is one surface in Aus where he can do well, it is this. Its an absolute belter. If he can't get runs here, you might as well forget him at the Gabba.

Marvellous recovery from India to stop Australia from disappearing out of sight. Dave Warner will, quite rightly, take the headlines, though.

Fingers crossed that Clarke will be able to carry on.

liverbnz wrote:So India lost 2 sessions to 1 and need to win the next to make it even yet it was their day? KP_fan logic(TM)

is that all that I said?

or is it convenient to miss that I also explained the following

" given the low expectations we have have from India in overseas tests;
given the tendency of Indian captains to easily select a spinner for his batting skill
and select a safe line and length medium pacer instead of a 90mph bowler and giving them an attacking field"

Seems about even, but you never know what India will produce when batting, some of their efforts in England were absolutely woeful.

I am sure England had a similar sort of opening day in the last Ashes and it didn't go too well after that once Mitch found his rhythm. Will be interesting to see if that was a purple patch for him or if he can sustain it. If it's the latter I fear for India.

ShankyCricket wrote:Kpfan, I don't remember me ever being 'after Rahane' in tests. Yes, in ltd overs cricket, he is yet to convince me although I'd have in my WC side.
Vijay, yes, I got that horribly wrong
I don't think you can anyone blame anyone for not rating Ishant. He has finally started delivering consistently after over 50 Tests of sustained mediocrity. I think 90% of the country was 'after' him before the Eng and NZ tours.

Here again, I'm not 'after' Dhawan but his technique gives me next to no confidence. He is not as gifted as a Sehwag or a Warner to play that way and get away with it. Nor does he seem to be the type who has the temperament to 'graft'. I'd be happy to be proven wrong but he just doesn't seem to be a test opener to me. Still if there is one surface in Aus where he can do well, it is this. Its an absolute belter. If he can't get runs here, you might as well forget him at the Gabba.

I do also rememebr though that you made quite good and early calls on the futility of Ashwin as an overseas spinner and on raina as an overseas batsmen in any form

BTW it was not appropriate of Clarke to have played this test with a known fragile back....and especially that he is the captain

and it's Not like he is the captain of a weak side like Zim with a poor batting.....that has to risk plying a half fit captain for his batting and leadership

this is the No.1 ranked side in the world and with plenty of depth in their cricket.

Clarke has done his team some disservice by opting to play here ...and I hope it doesn't prove crucial in the overall result of the game

his back wasn't the problem, his hamstring was. His back is a chronic issue, but wasn't his main concern going into this series. By your logic he should never play, because he ALWAYS has a back problem, hence he manages it. He's had a degenerative disc since he was 17. Should he never have bothered with cricket at all then?

He's also scored 60, which is fair going, hardly a disservice if you get 60 runs from a player

Also... we are the #1 team in Test cricket

and Australian media are not silent about it from smh

Michael Clarke's desperation to play for Phillip Hughes in the first Test has resulted in another flare-up of the captain's chronic back condition and left his immediate future uncertain.

There were countless reasons why Clarke should have played in Adelaide but the big reason why he should have sat out was dramatically laid bare about 25 minutes before tea on Tuesday.

Clarke had pleaded with selectors last month to take him on trust with his fitness but they will be reluctant to do so again.

The seriousness of Clarke's problem was not known on Tuesday afternoon but given his long injury history with back and hamstring issues any recurrence is of great concern. Clarke had injections in his lower back.

"We'll have to wait and see but it didn't look too good out there," David Warner said.

The innocuous circumstances leading to his latest setback further highlighted the 33-year-old's increasing vulnerability to injury.

His availability for the rest of the series is now in grave doubt and there could be implications for Australia's World Cup preparations.

Clarke was set to be ruled out of the first Test last month but Hughes' death forced a change in Cricket Australia's priorities.

Selectors had wanted Clarke to prove his fitness in a warm-up game but after the recent extraordinary events they respected his wish to play.

CA chief James Sutherland, who was appearing as a guest on the ABC's broadcast when Clarke broke down, said the skipper's disagreement with selectors was now a "moot point".

"Everyone was working together with the same thing in mind to try to get Michael recovered and fit and ready to play," Sutherland said.

"There may well have been some slightly different views about what was best in terms of preparation, but really that's all a moot point now.

and if indeed the worsening of Clarke's chronic problems have made him doubtful....who takes over captaincy from him ???

for the world cup they might bring in Bailey as the captain

for test matches beyond.....Smith is a natural leader.....he has firmed his place but his time might have come sooner than expected...
For this series they might let Haddin captaain if Clarke doesn't return
Having a strong coach like Lehman will help a new captain ease in with a lot of support

I think Australia just have the edge based on having those runs on the board already. I do think people have a tendency to think it is all too easy to score 350-400 in a test innings. The pitch is fairly flat but there is enough pace there that the edges will carry, and Australia have a good and varied bowling attack with plenty of options.

VTR mentioned last year's ashes and for good reason: we all remember England fans being delighted after the first innings at Brisbane when Aus scraped to just under 300. And then we all remember what happened...

Of course all this is fairly meaningless. What we mean is that Australia have a decent score but aren't out of sights by any means, so much depends on how India get on when they get a chance to bat.

Haven't seen any of the play but based on the day one score lean towards Mike's assessment. India pulled things back at the end with three quick wickets but Australia already have a decent score on the board and are in the better position. They still seem set to reach 400 and not many teams lose a Test from that position.

Whilst every session is important, the opening one on day two will be especially so. If India can finish Australia off for no more than another 40 runs, they'll feel they're still in with a chance (at the very least until Johnson gets at them perhaps). However, if Australia are still batting at lunch it becomes a game of survival for India.

A poignant extract from Siddharth Monga's cricinfo article.
"After his first day as Test captain, when Virat Kohli goes back into the change rooms, a conversation with MS Dhoni might be in order. "I'm sorry," Kohli might tell Dhoni, "I spoke so much about aggression when you weren't here, but now I can see why you aren't aggressive: it is impossible to attack with the bowlers we have got"."
Aaron generated pace, Shami was good with the 2nd new ball. But both gave away far too many runs and weren't consistent at all. It was poor old Ishant of all people, who looked the better of the 3 seamers for the reward of nothing. For ones, a case of him being unlucky!!.
I've had my doubts about Karan Sharma, his FC record is ordinary, and though he has the potential, he really hasn't had any sustained success in the longer formats. There are the raw ingredients, but he still seems a work in progress, not quite test class yet. But to be fair to the lad, he was on his first day of test cricket, so hopefully he can give a much better account of himself in the rest of the game and the rest of the series.

msp83 wrote:
I've had my doubts about Karan Sharma, his FC record is ordinary, and though he has the potential, he really hasn't had any sustained success in the longer formats. There are the raw ingredients, but he still seems a work in progress, not quite test class yet. But to be fair to the lad, he was on his first day of test cricket, so hopefully he can give a much better account of himself in the rest of the game and the rest of the series.

Do you know Sehwag, Yuvraj, Parthiv, Zaheer, tendulkar, Razdan and about half dozen more cricketers FC record when they were picked???

Indian cricket for long has been known to pick on potential......second only to Pakistanis
and hence the Chinaman guy picked recently ( Yadav?) also is a good bet.

Karn Sharma is one of the best leggies to have emerged in a long time.....because he gives it a very strong Rip, and can get purchase on less helpful pitches also...... if there was a rev counter you will find it's consistently in the red.

On a D1 flat pitch in foreign conditions...he came out very credibly. Let him get a D4 or D5 pitch with some assitance and you will see the havoc he can wreak

since this was a known injury carried into a test....if Clarke cannot field, substitute will not be allowed

Was it a known injury? Bit of a grey area. He had chronic back issues, but that wasn't what was bothering him. He had a hamstring injury. I suspect the hamstring weakness led to the Back pull, as his lumbar muscles would have been doing all the work, in hip extension (I am assuming that like most people with back problems, his originate from the glutes not firing properly in hip extension) but that wasn't the injury cloud heading into the match.

kingraf wrote:Was it a known injury? Bit of a grey area. He had chronic back issues, but that wasn't what was bothering him. He had a hamstring injury. I suspect the hamstring weakness led to the Back pull, as his lumbar muscles would have been doing all the work, in hip extension (I am assuming that like most people with back problems, his originate from the glutes not firing properly in hip extension) but that wasn't the injury cloud heading into the match.

if this is not a case of carrying a "known condition" then what will be

He has had back problems for a long time
even his own selectors were asking him not to play...and it's open knowledge that he went against their wishes

Yes but his own selectors were asking him not to play because he'd had recurring hamstring injuries. The back hadn't publicly flared up in months. If a player heads into a match knowing he has an injury to his calf, and tears his hamstring completing a run, what happens then*? This is the exact same scenario.

*Genuine question, I have no idea. The idea that you can't be replaced on field if you have a chronic but manageable injury which flares up is ridiculous. It's going to lead to players withholding information about the state of their condition.

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:
I've had my doubts about Karan Sharma, his FC record is ordinary, and though he has the potential, he really hasn't had any sustained success in the longer formats. There are the raw ingredients, but he still seems a work in progress, not quite test class yet. But to be fair to the lad, he was on his first day of test cricket, so hopefully he can give a much better account of himself in the rest of the game and the rest of the series.

Do you know Sehwag, Yuvraj, Parthiv, Zaheer, tendulkar, Razdan and about half dozen more cricketers FC record when they were picked???

Indian cricket for long has been known to pick on potential......second only to Pakistanis
and hence the Chinaman guy picked recently ( Yadav?) also is a good bet.

Karn Sharma is one of the best leggies to have emerged in a long time.....because he gives it a very strong Rip, and can get purchase on less helpful pitches also...... if there was a rev counter you will find it's consistently in the red.

On a D1 flat pitch in foreign conditions...he came out very credibly. Let him get a D4 or D5 pitch with some assitance and you will see the havoc he can wreak

Yuvraj, despite all his limited overs success, was a test failure, Rasdan isn't a member of even the 50 wicket club is he? Tendulkar scored big runs before he was picked for India though he didn't have much FC experience. Sehwag's FC record wasn't too shabby at the time of him being picked. Karn Sharma isn't in the Tendulkar league as far limited FC experience is concerned, he played over 30 games and averages just about 2 wickets a game. I know Legspin is one of the more difficult arts in cricket, and we have to give time for the leggy to get going, and I think Karn has potential. But I am not really sure he's test class at the moment but I really would love to be proved wrong on this one, as a top-class leggy is such an asset to the side.......

msp83 wrote: he played over 30 games and averages just about 2 wickets a game. I know Legspin is one of the more difficult arts in cricket, and we have to give time for the leggy to get going, and I think Karn has potential. But I am not really sure he's test class at the moment but I really would love to be proved wrong on this one, as a top-class leggy is such an asset to the side.......

--How many top class leggies have you seen ?

I have seen barely 3.....Warne, Kaneria and Qadir.

Kumble and Chandra don't count as conventional leggies......Gupte was before my times.

and Kaneria / Qadir had the luxury of lot of early subcontinent games...While Warne took some time to blossom.

--so you've gotta give Karn some time....

If we were to go by FC records only......Mishra wins hands down and Chawla had some great FC seasons.
BUT they didn't make the cut internationally (althouhg I believe Mishra was given a raw deal)

--Now that FC records mean little and proven home track bullies like Jadeja and Ashwin have flopped overseas....the selectors have punted on going for "who looks threatening against top class batters...and have pulled out Karn and that chinaman kid Yadav"

--and there is a rationale Karn gives it a tremendous rip........no less than Warne or Swann...so he's gonna get turn even on unhelpful pitches as he showed on D1 Adelaide.

he can't do worse than Ashwin and Jadeja.

If you want to reap the fruits of a leggie....you've gotta give him a run and time to blossom

I'd have Stuart McGill in there as well KPF, managing over 200 test wickets when the greatest ever was around, no small achievement........

Only watched the game in parts on day one, but whenever I watched Karn, he wasn't flighting it much, he was on the flattish side rather than flighting it much. You don't expect even a leggy to rip it across the batsman on a day one track, but in such circumstances, one way to be proactive is to try and beat the batsman in the air, didn't think Karn did enough of that.

Thought Ashwin was the generally expected choice, and Karn was considered a bold selection before the game started. If Ashwin had to play, then this had to be one of the tracks. Australia is no country for finger spinners, so from that point of view, Karn's selection makes sense, but he should ensure he bowls with greater discipline, and if he goes for runs, then it has to be during the process of making the batsman take on the flighted offerings, make them take a chance rather than offering flat, short wide ones that offered no challenge to the batsman. I really am keen that he actually comes through, an attack of Ashwin, Jadeja and Karn in spinning conditions, would be top class....... And that would have a great deal of variety as well. And with Bhuvi also joining them, in Indian conditions we will have a batting lineup that bats to 10.......

So I am willing to give Karn some time, but I had my doubts before the start of the series, and Karn couldn't do anything to assure me on his first day of test cricket. Lets see, hoping for the best.......