Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

First topic message reminder :

The test series is eventually getting underway tomorrow, under extraordinary circumstances.
The death of Phillip Hughes is a massive tragedy for the game, but alas, we have to move on, and in a way, what better way than actually getting back to playing the game, though the proposition would be a hugely demanding one for all the players involved. The first match of the restructured 4 test series is starting in Adelaide in a few hours, Adelaide that has been Hughes' adopted homeground for the past couple of seasons.
Though both skippers were under fitness issues leading up to the series start, Michael Clarke has recovered enough to lead the side while the Indians do not seem keen to take any chance with Mahendra Singh Dhoni's thumb, considering the up-coming world cup. So Virat Kohli will be leading India in a test for the first time as was originally scheduled, and wicketkeeper Wriddhiman Saha will be playing his 3rd test. India will be without Bhuvneshwar Kumar, their outstanding player of an otherwise disastrous series in England at least for the 1st couple of games due to an ankle injury.
how would events of the last few days reflect in the middle? What role would the bouncer play in the game and in the series? How different would be Kohli as a skipper to Dhoni? Will there be any bold selections like KL Rahul to open or Karn Sharma as the spinner from the Indians? Shane Watson and Mitchell Marsh playing together, what an interesting prospect that would be? Will Clarke be able to hold his increasingly rebelling body together? Which Mitchell Johnson will turn up for the game and series? Will the Indians do any better than what they managed in the last Australian tour?
Lets debate, and lets get back to the game.......

That's criminal from Kohli... He already had the boundary for the over.

Magnificent knock, mind you.

The collapse continues unabated

Two wickets left now.

The Indians have done a magnificent job fighting this hard, but chasing anything over 300 is incredibly difficult.

One to get.

One to go.

Superb effort by the Indian top order, but this has been a majestic response from Australia - particularly Lyon who had so little go his way earlier in the day.

Yes, I really thought Kohli and Vijay batted superbly.

Wow. I can't believe it. I'd almost given up an hour and a half ago.

It wasn't a horrible collapse, and in part it came because they were chasing the game... but you really shouldn't be losing eight wickets for pocket change and some gum.

What a test though.
Great attendance as well. The fact that Adelaide is a 50 000-seater does make a 27 000 crowd look like a few people waiting at a bus stop, but for a test with four days during the week,to average 27 000 everyday is great going.... What's Adelaide's unemployment rate looking like, LD?

This was probably India's best chance, think they'll be burnt for pace at Brisbane and Melbourne. Big questions regarding Clarke. Big summer and an Ashes coming up in rapid succession.

The physio fixes the back, everything else will follow.

It was the contrast between that superb partnership for most of the day and those last 8 wickets which defined that collapse.
Our bowling attack looked tired... but hung in there. Then, after the double breakthrough, they found some extra legs. Tough work.

It just goes to show that it's not easy batting or bowling. Both teams worked very hard. That was a very high quality match.
Anything can happen next match but it certainly looks like we are set up for an exciting series.

Commiserations, KP_F, msp, skanky & Co.
There will be some changes to both sides (Clarke already out for the rest of series) but still plenty to look forward to for us.

raf, getting worse... around 6.1% in SA (4.3-5.7% around Adelaide but double digits in places like Elizabeth and Snowtown).

Test cricket eh?

Went to bed with the score 80ish for 2, woke up just after Vijay and Rahane got out. Until Kohli got out it looked like India had every chance of winning it.

Really pleased for Lyon. I thought he copped some unfair and over the top criticism after the UAE tour and this was a terrific effort.

Kohli must have played some knock, if the first 100 runs were anything like the last 40. Simply looked like he could hit everything for 4. He's quite some player. Not sure the criticism of his shot is that warranted, poor execution yes but it was there to hit and given how he'd been playing, and that he was with the (rather lengthy, the Indian fans got that one right) tail. Don't blame him for going for the shot, but just dragged it a bit.

A mention for Haddin's keeping which was top drawer on not the easiest pitch.

The emotion was very tangible at the end there. Clarke and Warner certainly had damp eyes during the interview. Such a brilliant test is a fitting tribute though.

Looking onwards, it seems as if Clarke will miss the rest of the series. With him out Australia's batting looks even more fragile, but I'm not sure India have the bowling to take advantage of it. Shaun Marsh is possibly the likely replacement, and despite Ian Chappell making a decent case for Smith being given the captaincy I think they'll stick with Haddin.

For India, Dhoni will return. Interested to see whether they'll revert to 5 bowlers - it's not as if Rohit did that much, but then again that would make a lengthy tail even lengthier. Wasn't overly impressed with Karn Sharma, but having picked him it would be a bit reactionary to drop him after just one game. The tail is clearly an issue, but not sure how you fix that until Kumar comes back.

Confirmed out? That's a pity. I'm a huge Clarke fan, but his body is rebelling big time. Don't think he has too long left if I'm honest. Could retire at the Ashes. Maybe he'll fight till the next home one... when is the next home Ashes?

Had a great career whatever happens, of course. World cup win. two 5-0 Ashes victories, 28 centuries. Hall of fame career (maybe not, they do seem rather strict with who they let into it).

Wow - should India have won that? They must be kicking themselves

Wow indeed! Envy everyone who watched the whole play through our night. Think you guys have said it all about this Test. I will though add a comment to another thread.

--Beaten but not disgraced....that they tried to win is how they got so close.

A narrow win by 2 to 3 wkts would not necessarily prove India's superiority......we must bear in mind, Aus declared in both innings and we picked barely 12 wickets.To win tests we must pick 20 wickets on merit

--bad decisions to Rahane, Dhwan and the performance of spinner made the difference.

--we can't do much..Raina in place of Rohit is just as bad...ashwin and Jadeja have failed overseas, we should have had Yadav or Rasool in the squad for spin back up.

and Tiwary / Rayadu for middle order. Gotta move away from proven overseas failure.

Dhwan was given wrongyl out and by default gets anotehr game.
Aaron did well in Eng and wasn't used well....so he also gets a few more games.

---we have not picked the right players in the squad.....so there is not anything drastic that would change in 2nd test.

No Michael Clarke next test, so I assume that means Sean Marsh gets a shot. The middle order looks brittle without Clarke. Mind you, Marsh can be a magnificent batsman when he gets off the mark... Probably needs to get off the mark first.

So Australia go
Warner
Rodgers
Watson
Marsh
Smith
M. Marsh
Haddin

Not a batting line up in the best of form it must be said. There's a chance, Aaron will be a handful at the Gabba, even if its only with the new ball

Yes, we'll need a couple of other batsmen to step up at the Gabba.
Warner and Smith in fine form - 461 runs between them in this match. Not bad going at all.
We will miss Michael Clarke though. You're right raf, he was pushing those injuries to the limits... risky management.
There was always a chance of further compounding the injuries.

In fairness to Clarke he might have felt he doesn't have long left whatever happens, so he may as well push himself and see what happens. Moreover I suspect he somewhat let emotion rule, and it's hard to criticise him for that. Worth remembering his first innings runs were vital in setting the game up also (both parts of it: first came in with Australia 50odd for 2 and not particularly well placed; 2nd half helped Australia go from challenging to huge total and did so quickly enough).

KPF has made one of the points which I wanted to which is that well though India fought with the bat, it did take two declarations to give them a shot at the game. Also let's not forget the best part of half a day was lost to rain overall, and that decidedly helped them stay in the match as well. I would moreover add that the Adelaide pitch is about as friendly to them as you will get in Aus. Whilst this shouldn't detract from how well they batted at times, it does put things into a bit of perspective. This may have been their best chance, unless their seamers can somehow up their game in one or more of the next matches (I suspect Ishant may have to be the man).

I take KPF's point that there is no obvious change which will strengthen the Indian line-up. Certainly I wouldn't be too tempted by Raina. Although I feel it is a bit harsh on Jadeja to call him a failure overseas: my impression is he does pretty well at the job which Dhoni asks of him (which is primarily to contain) and picks up the odd wicket. If you're relying on your containing spinner to run through sides overseas then I feel the issue is that the other guys aren't doing their jobs. For what it's worth I think Jadeja would have enjoyed this pitch. I can't see how he would have done worse than Sharma in the first innings, and I have no doubt he would have proved much better at containing things in the 2nd innings. Plus his batting couldn't have gone much worse either. Certainly his fielding would have helped.

As for the umpiring, it was pretty much six of one, half a dozen of the other. India copped 3 probably incorrect decisions (Saha first innings certainly didn't hit it, Dhawan and Rahane in this knock) but none of them were real howlers, they all had 2 noises and the ball pretty close to the bat. On the other hand Lyon really had Vijay plumb LBW early on, and apparently maybe should have had him later on in the innings as well, whilst a few tights decisions went India's way; in the context of the game with Vijay one of the Indians best suited to batting long periods of time, these were probably just as important if not more so than the ones which went against India.

I also wish to make the point I usually do with the umpiring, in that each of the wrong dismissals stemmed from a good piece of bowling which defeated the batsman. In each case the batsman made an appreciation error; whilst that doesn't mean he "deserved" to cop a poor decision, as a coach when a batsman comes off moaning about a bad one I usually retort that he should have played a better shot and not given the umpire the option. The point is a more general one: if you start blaming others (in this case the umpire, but other examples include the pitch, the light, the opposition's sledging, someone moving in the crowd, your partner at the other end who wasn't filling you with confidence, etc.) for your own failure then you won't learn from these and improve.

And although it is a cheap shot, whose fault is it we didn't have DRS?

Yeah, LD - Smith and Warner are in fantastic form, but that's about it at the moment. Rodgers' slide seems to be permanent, Watson, as I've said for years now, is a player who's average is what he averages - ie he'll generally get to 40... and out. Shaun Marsh as I said, is a good batter, but he needs a to score first, think a third of all his Test knocks are "0". Bit like Marcus North, when he goes he goes... there's just no guarantee he'll go. Haddin also isn't in the greatest form, and I don't think we learnt much from Mitchell Marsh other than the fact that he can whack a ball a long way.

Yeah, I don't blame Clarke for choosing to play. It was like he said the best test of his career, and to his credit, he wasn't exactly a shrinking violet. Is it maybe time to anoint a new successor?

Who is seen as the favourite in Australia? I guess Smith, listening to Ch. 9, but is that the consensus? Think Warner has a good crocket brain on him, but maybe a little volatile to be leading men into battle. Got to think it HAS to be one of the two.
Rodgers - old
Haddin, who I must add I thought did a fantastic job under very real pressure, old.
Watson - been fired from leadership before, has a body which rebels even harder.
Mitchell Marsh - young

Maybe Garry Lyon? He's young for a spinner, and having been a groundsman, probably factors the pitch and such nuances a little better than most. Can't say I know much about his cricket brain, but he plays international cricket so he should be pretty sharp.

Mike Selig wrote: I feel it is a bit harsh on Jadeja to call him a failure overseas: my impression is he does pretty well at the job which Dhoni asks of him (which is primarily to contain) and picks up the odd wicket.

Jadeja cannot be a match winner outside of India and hence Dhoni used him defensively.

when you play 4 bowlers only and the other 3 seamers are not the proven match winners, then the only spinner cannot be a defensive option only.

.and that's why they picked Karn Sharma.

Mike Selig wrote:In each case the batsman made an appreciation error; whilst that doesn't mean he "deserved" to cop a poor decision, as a coach when a batsman comes off moaning about a bad one I usually retort that he should have played a better shot and not given the umpire the option.

I agree...if it's not a howler, then the batsman should blame no one as he was beaten in the first place.

Mike Selig wrote:And although it is a cheap shot, whose fault is it we didn't have DRS?

Yes it's only a cheap shot and in line with those who justify revenge as a wild justice.

my agreement above notwithstanding....When DRS has been legally opted out....the umpires must invoke the old-fashioned  "benefit of doubt" to the batsman knowing that  there is no second line of review......when he is not atleast 90% sure instinctively

I picked Smith as future Australian captain back in the 2010-2011 ashes (with the caveat that he first earn his place in the team) so I'm not about to back down now. I think he's viewed as the natural successor to Clarke, and it was obvious that he was fully involved in the decision making process yesterday.

Warner would be another interesting option; he seems to have calmed down a bit recently but still has plenty of passion. He was also fully involved yesterday.

Can't see anyone else long term. Haddin may be given the reigns in the short term having said that. An interesting call to make.

I think Smith would be the more intuitive captain, whilst Warner will be more of a "lead from the front" kind of guy. Nothing wrong with either, but Smith seems a more natural successor to Clarke somehow.

Whats your opinion on Dhawan, Mike? He is not test class for me and I'd pick Rahul instead.

Yeah I'd tend to agree TBH. There are simply too many technical issues there particularly for an opening bat.

To be fair, I thought he looked a bit better than during the England tour (OK, so that's not saying much); he seems to be batting more on off-stump, whereas in England he was on middle-and-leg at best. That may help his nicking off issues. I'd be willing to give him another test or two to see if this new technique could make him into a better player.

Not sure what the alternatives are. No point going back to Gambhir. Who's this Rahul fellow? What happened to was it Chand who looked such a good prospect a couple of years ago?

He failed in the warm up matches too, Mike with this so called new technique. Scored a grand total of 10 runs in 2 matches against bowlers without any FC experience. But its not just his technique thats letting him down. I just don't think he has the basic temperament of a test batsman. He is just not willing to fight and grind it out. For me, he has had enough chances at test level and his failures in the warm up matches against Academy bowlers and in this test (all at Adelaide) doesn't particularly bode well for the seam friendly surfaces at Gabba and MCG. There is no point persisting with him really.

Not sure how much you can gauge from an article but here's a very good article on Rahul...
http://m.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/66462/kl-rahul-the-next-wall-of-india

what an amazing final session!!! Nathan Lyon take a bow, had a fantastic test match!!  Also sad to see Clarke's press conference and him admitting that he may not play again....as someone who suffers with back and hamstring issues, they are defo connected, and if you have a real problem with them, then it is very difficult, to get yourself fit at all, let alone for international cricket...however i really hope we see him back playing again..

Considering the loss of Clarke, I'd prefer to see Smith get the captaincy, however I also believe Haddin will do a good job.
Maybe they'll run a "co-captaincy plan" (as they do in RL/AFL) but officially nominate one of them on paper. Either of them would do a good job.

There's a few options in the batting. I'd probably persevere with Chris Rogers but I agree he looks woefully out of form.
Usman Khawaja is batting well in the domestic games and the Gabba is his newly adopted home ground. Might be worth a thought?

I feel Watson's role in the team is becoming even more redundant with Mitchell Marsh now in the fold and performing a similar role.
Maybe put a pure big game experienced batsman at 3 along with re-instating Shaun Marsh at 4.

Too many mouth watering choices concerning the best bowling line up for Brisbane.
It's also worth noting Sean Abbott is in fine form. He had taken 6/9 at one stage v Qld and had final figures of 6/14.

If we had to rest Siddle and Harris then I'd probably go for Johnson, Starc, Hazelwood, Lyon... although I'd like to see Faulkner and Cummins in the Test arena at some stage too.

Warner
Rogers/Khawaja
Watson
S. Marsh
Smith (co captain)
M.Marsh
Haddin (co captain)
Johnson
Harris/Starc/Faulkner
Hazelwood/Cummins
Lyon

The Loaded Dog wrote:Considering the loss of Clarke, I'd prefer to see Smith get the captaincy, however I also believe Haddin will do a good job.

I also think the captaincy now would be given to Haddin with Smith the named heir apparent.
and the switch would take place after the next Ashes I believe

I've been away for the last day and after that as well. It was a good effort from India to put up a fight, and it was equally terrible the way they made a right royal mess of the chase at the end. Yeah, Lyon bowled superbly, yeah it was a 5th day pitch helping the spinner, yeah, they were chasing a real big score on the last day of a test. Yeah, there were umpiring calls that went against them at times. Yet from 242-2, they shouldn't just have lost that game in the last session. Fine efforts from Kohli and Vijay. Dhawan and Rahane got poor calls. But the rest of the batting completely let the side down.
Now for the next game, think I'd give Dhawan another game. Dhoni obviously gets back for Saha. Hope they would stopping wasting the number 6 spot any more. Bat Ashwin at 6, bring in Yadav in place of Karn Sharma who hasn't looked international class really. Yes he's a leggy who could be highly valuable to any side, but Karn really hasn't looked the part. I know Warn's record in his debut game, but he was doing alright in domestic cricket then, and he was playing against a batting lineup who knew how to play spin. Karn just isn't ready, he's not experienced enough, just hasn't done enough bowling in FC cricket to know his own bowling well enough.

Between Ravichandran Ashwin and Ravindra Jadeja, it is an interesting choice. Both of them haven't had great success in overseas conditions, but it is worth remembering the last 5 wicket haul in an away test for an Indian spinner was from Jadeja in South Africa, on a track where he could take advantage of natural variations on the track. Could have been handy on that day 4 track. Jadeja has a pretty acceptable record as an all-rounder in ODI cricket, he has those much talked about (often not quite favorably) triple hundreds in FC cricket. But in overseas conditions he's not a number 7, at best he's a number 8. Pretty good fielder as well.
As for Ashwin, to be fair he did look better in England than was the case in South Africa or in the previous Australian tour. He does add to the batting, and though he hasn't scored triple hundreds in FC cricket, he's miles better with the bat than Jadeja, and bat at 7 on a stretch. If he can bring some discipline into his bowling and stick to a good line and length without trying too many things, then he can do a job for the side.
Its a difficult choice, but considering all things including the absence of Bhuvneshwar Kumar, think I'd give Ashwin the go for the next test.
Its highly unlikely, but I think playing Ashwin as the all-rounder with the skipper batting at 6 and Ashwin at 7 or the other way round, and then playing Aaron, Yadav, Ishant and Shami won't be a bad option at all, particularly as Rohit Sharma just isn't good enough to play test cricket regularly.

KP_fan wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:Considering the loss of Clarke, I'd prefer to see Smith get the captaincy, however I also believe Haddin will do a good job.

I also think the captaincy now would be given to Haddin with Smith the named heir apparent.
and the switch would take place after the next Ashes I believe

Close call KP_f. You could smell it in the air here. The no nonsense approach.
I think Mark Waugh presented a compelling argument to the selection committee to "swing the vote" in Smith's favour.

Whilst I agree with msp about Rohit Sharma, why so much leeway to Dhawan? His technique and FC record are worse than Rohit's. Like Rohit, he also has a tendency to throw his wkt away, doesn't have a test match temperament. He was as bad in Eng as Rohit and spent last time at the crease in the first test than Rohit. Worse, he couldn't buy a run in the warm up matches against bowlers who don't even play for their FC side. Didn't cross even forty in 10 inns in SA and Eng. Failed miserably in the ODIs in SA and NZ(the only time he got "Test match type" conditions in ODIs, i.e. ball seaming around). 2 of his 4 scores in NZ were 0 and 2. Basically, its just 2 good sporadic scores in NZ (and those using "poor decision" to justify his failure in the last match must remember he was dropped on a duck during his hundred in NZ without which he wouldn't even have made it to the England tour,let alone this one, so he has had his fair share of good fortune too) amidst an unending list of failures. Add to it, his technique is awful and he hasn't really shown the temperament to grind out tough runs. Seriously, I don't know how and what anyone can see in him as a Test batsman. He is nowhere near good enough for Test cricket. Anyone who thinks he is a Test batsman has their heads stuck in sand.

Your views, msp?

Sorry, the 4th sentence should read "less (not last) time at the crease than Nohit in the Adelaide Test.

Moeen Ali's beard is a worldie

wrong thread

You're excused.

Out of interest, who do you reckon has/had the best beard out of Amla, Ali, Devcich, Mo Yousuf or W.G. Grace,.... raf?

Amla's beard has always seems to have a touch of class about it. I think it's the thin upper lip moustache he has going for him.

... and almost the perfect conical vortex thingamyjig.

Birds must go nuts when they see it.

Yeah, I wish I could grow a beard like that. My facial hair is too patchy for me to let it grow.

Looks like there will definitely be some afternoon rain on a few days of the Test.

ooops, sorry. Wrong thread!

The Loaded Dog wrote:... and almost the perfect conical vortex thingamyjig.

Birds must go nuts when they see it.

Alec Stewart spoke in praise of Amla at last night's Surrey forum meeting but strangely didn't mention this.

guildfordbat wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:... and almost the perfect conical vortex thingamyjig.

Birds must go nuts when they see it.

Alec Stewart spoke in praise of Amla at last night's Surrey forum meeting but strangely didn't mention this.

Still buzzing from the meeting, Guildford?
I read your other post. He seems like a top bloke... with a good sense of humour too.

Who? Stewart or Amla? Both seem like top gents, so you're right either way, I suppose. Funny enough, there was a Protea vs Springbok match at the Wanderers two Fridays ago, and let's just say Amla didn't have a completely extended elbow... Graeme Smith asked him, "Slight kink in that bowling action Hash?", and Amla replied retorted "I forgot to pack my long sleeves". I found it hilarious, as I've been telling anyone who cared to listen for years now that all bowlers with dodgy actions wear long sleeve shirts.

I also wear long sleeve shirts, but that's because I don't like the sunshine hitting my forearms

I was referring to Alec Stewart but yes... Amla is a very decent fella too.