Gwent Dragons 2015/16 thread

[dragon4life]

First topic message reminder :

3 in Wales squad that would have been 4 if tyler was fit

[GavinDragon]

but does this mean that he will go at the end of his contract or that he will go to another region?

[ScarletSpiderman]

but does this mean that he will go at the end of his contract or that he will go to another region?

Part of me hopes it means a revised NDC is put on the table for him, and he will stay at the Dragons. But then I think if he wants Champions Cup Rugby then he could come to the Scarlets who need a decent 8

[Luckless Pedestrian]

The thing is, I've heard he's happy at the Dragons and doesn't want to leave.

[The Saint]

Gats saves Welsh rugby again .

[wayne]

The thing is, I've heard he's happy at the Dragons and doesn't want to leave.

This is what Gatland said last week in his press conference, he inferred at the time the party that wants him to go is the Dragons, I found that sad and surprising.

[LordDowlais]

Well Bath have just released a back rower, I do not know how many times he played at eight though, so there is room for another back rower at Bath.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/33354088

[ScarletSpiderman]

http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/Taulupe-Faletau-s-proposed-transfer-Dragons-Bath/story-26820994-detail/story.html

TAULUPE Faletau’s projected move to Bath has been thrown into question after it was discovered that he wouldn’t have full release to play for Wales if he moved to The Rec.

Warren Gatland had previously assumed that, like George North at Northampton, the No. 8 would continue to be available for all national training sessions and matches. But that doesn’t appear to be the case and so it is understood that Wales’s head coach has opted not to give the switch his approval. Gatland is also believed to have been less than impressed with learning that Faletau would have to become a wild card in national selection, because other regions were prepared to offer him deals at market rates.

Post World Cup, the New Zealander is only able to pick two wild cards – the status given to certain Wales players based outside the regions – under the WRU Senior Players Selection Policy and faced having to count Faletau has one of them. It all means one of the most high profile transfer sagas of the summer could be heading for the buffers. The Dragons had reportedly made a “business decision” that would see Faletau head to Bath for a transfer fee of around £200,000, with the No. 8 having a year left on his Rodney Parade contract. But any such early release of a Wales international away from a region has to satisfy a number of criteria.

The player in question has to have been offered to other regions at market value. In Faletau’s case, it is believed both Cardiff Blues and the Scarlets registered interest. Only if there is no Welsh interest can he then be offered outside Wales. And even then the switch has to have Gatland’s approval. It is thought in this instance the Kiwi has declined to give such a blessing, given the apparent lack of full release in any deal with Bath. Faletau becoming a wildcard also evidently put the tin hat on it as far as Gatland was concerned.

So the WRU Senior Players Selection Policy (SPSP), aka Gatland’s Law, has finally been shown to have some teeth. If Faletau leaves at the end of his deal next season the decision would be his alone and he would not have exempted status under the policy. Jamie Roberts and Rhys Priestland already have wild-card status and there is the potential problem that George North’s full-release contract at Northampton ends next summer, meaning he could also become a wild card.

Read more: http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/Taulupe-Faletau-s-proposed-transfer-Dragons-Bath/story-26820994-detail/story.html#ixzz3ejvwJDIx
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[LordDowlais]

The thing is, I've heard he's happy at the Dragons and doesn't want to leave.

This is what Gatland said last week in his press conference, he inferred at the time the party that wants him to go is the Dragons, I found that sad and surprising.

Perhaps they want to cash in on him with Bath paying out the rest of his contract, I heard it was in the region of £250,000.

[ScarletSpiderman]

The thing is, I've heard he's happy at the Dragons and doesn't want to leave.

This is what Gatland said last week in his press conference, he inferred at the time the party that wants him to go is the Dragons, I found that sad and surprising.

Perhaps they want to cash in on him with Bath paying out the rest of his contract, I heard it was in the region of £250,000.

I think it is one of those ones like George North. They know come the end of his contract he is going to be able to command wages that they will not be able to supply. So then it is a simple case of either getting some cash for him going, and saving a years wages too, or losing him in 12 months anyway.

[wayne]

The thing is, I've heard he's happy at the Dragons and doesn't want to leave.

This is what Gatland said last week in his press conference, he inferred at the time the party that wants him to go is the Dragons, I found that sad and surprising.

Perhaps they want to cash in on him with Bath paying out the rest of his contract, I heard it was in the region of £250,000.

I think it is one of those ones like George North.  They know come the end of his contract he is going to be able to command wages that they will not be able to supply.  So then it is a simple case of either getting some cash for him going, and saving a years wages too, or losing him in 12 months anyway.

Personally, and I've said this many times, I want to see 4 STRONG Regions and losing a player like Faletau will not help this process, if at the end of the day whether it be now or the end of the season, I hope HE feels the full brunt of Gatland's Law, this IMO will help Welsh Rugby in the long term.

[bedfordwelsh]

Wayne,

He won't and i don't feel he should, first off there IS NO GATLANDS LAW and secondly we are two small a country to ignore players not playing in Wales.

As for Faletau himself then in this pro world you can't blaming for taking more money or wanting to try and better himself or achieve things he is unlikely to achieve with us.

[Steffan]

I hope HE feels the full brunt of Gatland's Law, this IMO will help Welsh Rugby in the long term

Yeah I agree. Any top player who leaves the goldfish bowl of Welsh domestic rugby to go and earn megabucks and play at the top level in England or France therefore gaining good rugby and life experiences should be completely ex-communicated from the Welsh national team. That's really going to help a country with a relatively small player pool and limited amount of players on a national level

[ScarletSpiderman]

Bedford. Whilst I would agree there has been no Gatland's law. There is a Senior Player Selection Policy that is meant to be coming as of the end of the RWC. Give it a chance, as it is supposedly down in the RSA so it is likely the regions will kick up poop if Gats bends the rules on it.

[Steffan]

"Gatland's Law" is the most narrow minded concept going and all it will do will create a situation where players possibly in their prime will be retiring from international rugby for a nice big house in England or France and a massive pay cheque will will ensure financial security for that player and his family. Only in Wales hey...

[bedfordwelsh]

Bedford.  Whilst I would agree there has been no Gatland's law.  There is a Senior Player Selection Policy that is meant to be coming as of the end of the RWC.  Give it a chance, as it is supposedly down in the RSA so it is likely the regions will kick up poop if Gats bends the rules on it.

SS,

I still think he will pick who he wants when he wants and there is still the exceptional circumstances clause, we cant IMO afford to ignore our best players.

[ScarletSpiderman]

"Gatland's Law" is the most narrow minded concept going and all it will do will create a situation where players possibly in their prime will be retiring from international rugby for a nice big house in England or France and a massive pay cheque will will ensure financial security for that player and his family. Only in Wales hey...

mmm and New Zealand, ahhh and Australia (unless they have over 60 caps and 7 years in Super Rugby), and err England.....

[ScarletSpiderman]

Bedford.  Whilst I would agree there has been no Gatland's law.  There is a Senior Player Selection Policy that is meant to be coming as of the end of the RWC.  Give it a chance, as it is supposedly down in the RSA so it is likely the regions will kick up poop if Gats bends the rules on it.

SS,

I still think he will pick who he wants when he wants and there is still the exceptional circumstances clause, we cant IMO afford to ignore our best players.

The exceptional circumstances clause requires the regions to sign off on it too.

[Steffan]

"Gatland's Law" is the most narrow minded concept going and all it will do will create a situation where players possibly in their prime will be retiring from international rugby for a nice big house in England or France and a massive pay cheque will will ensure financial security for that player and his family. Only in Wales hey...

mmm and New Zealand, ahhh and Australia (unless they have over 60 caps and 7 years in Super Rugby), and err England.....

True but the three nations mentioned above can afford to pay these players decent money and play competitive rugby at domestic level

[wayne]

Wayne,

He won't and i don't feel he should, first off there IS NO GATLANDS LAW and secondly we are two small a country to ignore players not playing in Wales.

As for Faletau himself then in this pro world you can't blaming for taking more money or wanting to try and better himself or achieve things he is unlikely to achieve with us.

I certainly agree there is NO Gatlands Law, the agreement has more holes in it than our colander in the kitchen, and quite right it is a short career and you have to take what is on offer, I don't blame HIM one bit, yet as I said earlier, HE doesn't want to GO, I said this a few years ago, a proper Gatland's Law should have been put in place, and it would have kicked in after this WC, if it's good enough for the people who have signed up for DCs, it should be enough for ALL. If you want to chase the money that is as I said ok, but if the release clauses are NOT in place, you forfeit your chance, unless there are truly REMARKABLE circumstances, it would mean IMO players like Baker, Navidi and Delve being out. IMO there is only one position in the Welsh setup that we don't have strength in depth and that could be soon answered with Francis being given an opportunity.

[Steffan]

I certainly agree there is NO Gatlands Law, the agreement has more holes in it than our colander in the kitchen, and quite right it is a short career and you have to take what is on offer, I don't blame HIM one bit, yet as I said earlier, HE doesn't want to GO, I said this a few years ago, a proper Gatland's Law should have been put in place, and it would have kicked in after this WC, if it's good enough for the people who have signed up for DCs, it should be enough for ALL. If you want to chase the money that is as I said ok, but if the release clauses are NOT in place, you forfeit your chance, unless there are truly REMARKABLE circumstances, it would mean IMO players like Baker, Navidi and Delve being out. IMO there is only one position in the Welsh setup that we don't have strength in depth and that could be soon answered with Francis being given an opportunity

YOU do MAKE some interesting POINTS there wayne and the WAY you often PUT words into CAPS here and there REALLY helps get the POINT across

[Guest]

[Guest]

The thing is, I've heard he's happy at the Dragons and doesn't want to leave.

This is what Gatland said last week in his press conference, he inferred at the time the party that wants him to go is the Dragons, I found that sad and surprising.

It's a business decision isn't it. We are pretty stocked in the back row and if we can cash in and strengthen where we might actually need it (like 10 and prop), we should cash in. Especially when during his final year of his contract we will hardly see him.

[ScarletSpiderman]

"Gatland's Law" is the most narrow minded concept going and all it will do will create a situation where players possibly in their prime will be retiring from international rugby for a nice big house in England or France and a massive pay cheque will will ensure financial security for that player and his family. Only in Wales hey...

mmm and New Zealand, ahhh and Australia (unless they have over 60 caps and 7 years in Super Rugby), and err England.....

True but the three nations mentioned above can afford to pay these players decent money and play competitive rugby at domestic level

Also those three have been doing it longer, which could be why their domestic rugby is seen as superior to ours. Which would bring in more sponsorship to help pay the players more. It may be a case of dealing with a bit more cack to get there first.

[bedfordwelsh]

Wayne,

Are you sure he doesn't want to go, a few reports would suggest he does now and not just for money but also to develop himself and like I said to try and achieve things he is unlikely to do with us, after all its a job these days and no different to us trying to better ourselves etc.

As for Welsh selection then if players in Wales are playing better than those overseas week in and week out then picking them first isn't a problem but let's not limit ourselves to those in Wales.

[LordDowlais]

If Gatland has got involved then you can bet your bottom dollar that he has also spoken with Taulupe Faletau and told him what is best for him if he wants to keep playing for Wales. Thus brings me to the conclusion, that if, as bedford has mentioned above, he does want to go, and he wants to develop himself, and play in a higher competition than he is now, but STILL wants to represent Wales at every opportunity, then the only option open to him would at the moment be Scarlets. Unless, he stays with Dragons for another season, and see if Cardiff Blues or Dragons finish in the top 6 then he could fulfill his potential with them.

If he does not really care about his Welsh ambitions, then the world is his oyster. He would command a decent wage at any of the big spending clubs in Europe. But I think he really has Wales at his heart and would not go down that route.

[bedfordwelsh]

LD,

I would be very surprised if he didn't still have Welsh ambitions.

[Steffan]

He clearly has Welsh ambitions but Wales only play a certain number of games a year so like many players he may also want to thrive on a top club game (while earning loads of money)

[LordDowlais]

He clearly has Welsh ambitions but Wales only play a certain number of games a year so like many players he may also want to thrive on a top club game (while earning loads of money)

He can do this in Wales on DC, playing for a side that has reached the CC.

[munkian]

Looks like it may have fallen through with Baarf, quibbles over International release.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

He clearly has Welsh ambitions but Wales only play a certain number of games a year so like many players he may also want to thrive on a top club game (while earning loads of money)

He can do this in Wales on DC, playing for a side that has reached the CC.

Don't you mean a side that has scraped (or scrapped) into the Champions Cup?

[munkian]

He clearly has Welsh ambitions but Wales only play a certain number of games a year so like many players he may also want to thrive on a top club game (while earning loads of money)

He can do this in Wales on DC, playing for a side that has reached the CC.

Don't you mean a side that has scraped (or scrapped) into the Champions Cup?

Exactly. I'd rather him go to Bath (if he gets the release clause sorted) and us get a big cash injection than him stay another season, barely play any games then we get nothing when he signs for someone else...

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Munk, on another thread Dowlais was criticising the Scarlets for just scraping (or it might have been 'scrapping') into the Champions Cup.

[munkian]

If Toby is to grow as a player he needs to be in a top team against top opposition, the Aviva is the best place for him atm

[The Saint]

"Gatland's Law" is the most narrow minded concept going and all it will do will create a situation where players possibly in their prime will be retiring from international rugby for a nice big house in England or France and a massive pay cheque will will ensure financial security for that player and his family. Only in Wales hey...

mmm and New Zealand, ahhh and Australia (unless they have over 60 caps and 7 years in Super Rugby), and err England.....

True but the three nations mentioned above can afford to pay these players decent money and play competitive rugby at domestic level

NZ and Aus can't. Perhaps the token player can command great wages, but that is via additional sources like sponsorship, etc (see Carter and McCaw).

[LordDowlais]

He clearly has Welsh ambitions but Wales only play a certain number of games a year so like many players he may also want to thrive on a top club game (while earning loads of money)

He can do this in Wales on DC, playing for a side that has reached the CC.

Don't you mean a side that has scraped (or scrapped) into the Champions Cup?

What has what happened last season "during the war", got to do with Toby playing at the highest level ? I think the pro12 can be just as high of a standard if the Irish took the league a bit more seriously. So, if he wants to compete in the CC as well, only Scarlets are an option in Wales, at the moment, no matter how they got into the CC.

[wayne]

[quote="bedfordwelsh"]Wayne,

Are you sure he doesn't want to go, a few reports would suggest he does now and not just for money but also to develop himself and like I said to try and achieve things he is unlikely to do with us, after all its a job these days and no different to us trying to better ourselves etc.

As for Welsh selection then if players in Wales are playing better than those overseas week in and week out then picking them first isn't a problem but let's not limit ourselves to those in Wales.[/quote ]
Bedford, there is a question and answer report in the Fail, if you go to Walesonline on Rugby and go to the 3rd page back you'll see the full PC as reported by them and Gatland says that Faletau doesn't want to go, after the amount of time that this has dragged on, I can't see him changing his mind in less than a week.

[bedfordwelsh]

Wayne,

I tend not to take note of anything that WOL or the Western Fail print.

LD,

Yes we got to the semis of the CC but we will never challenge for the big Euro trophy and if he has ambitions at that level then unfortunately he would have to leave us.

[Cardiff Dave]

Rumour going around that Bath will not put a Release Clause in Falatau's contract, so Gats has blocked the move.

How? Thought Gats was team Wales coach, only.

[Cardiff Dave]

Wayne,

I tend not to take note of anything that WOL or the Western Fail print.

LD,

Yes we got to the semis of the CC but we will never challenge for the big Euro trophy and if he has ambitions at that level then unfortunately he would have to leave us.

Why?

[Steffan]

Gats hasn't blocked anything. He is Wales coach and that's it. No coach should have that power. This is peoples livelihoods we are talking about here

[wayne]

Wayne,

I tend not to take note of anything that WOL or the Western Fail print.

LD,

Yes we got to the semis of the CC but we will never challenge for the big Euro trophy and if he has ambitions at that level then unfortunately he would have to leave us.

Bedford, I mentioned the Fail as it was the easiest to find, it was quoted in among others by the BBC website and the Guardian as well, he doesn't want to leave, the Dragons are suffering financially by all accounts and need him to go, this was on two different websites.

[Cardiff Dave]

Wayne,

I tend not to take note of anything that WOL or the Western Fail print.

I prefer Asda Shades.

[bedfordwelsh]

Wayne,

I tend not to take note of anything that WOL or the Western Fail print.

LD,

Yes we got to the semis of the CC but we will never challenge for the big Euro trophy and if he has ambitions at that level then unfortunately he would have to leave us.

Why?

Ok I guess you can never say never but Faletau is 24 now so let's say he has a good injury free carear until he is maybe 32/33 that's 8/9 years away and as much as I owuld love it to happen I can't see us challenging for the big one in that timescale.

[bedfordwelsh]

Gatland can't block the move all he can do is make Faletau aware that if he does go it may or may not harm his Welsh chances.

After that it's down to Taulupe to decide what route he wants to go.

[Steffan]

Gatland can't block the move all he can do is make Faletau aware that if he does go it may or may not harm his Welsh chances.

After that it's down to Taulupe to decide what route he wants to go.

If Gatland tells him he won't pick him if he goes to Bath then Taulupe should tell him to where to shove it and go to Bath. Not saying missing out on playing for your country is a good thing but when you got a Hitler style coach there would you even want to play for him

[Guest]

Why is everyone saying he should go to the Scarlets? They've already signed Morgan Allen and Jack Condy (didn't want to play second fiddle to Faletau at Dragons) for next season. They already have Rory Pitman who I rate highly and think will be a future Welsh 8. Why stockpile all the 8s? The others will soon f**k off if they get no game time and we have a ridiculous carousel of players with no one settling.

[Steffan]

A little town in west Wales or a lavish city in the west of England for more money and one of the biggest clubs in Europe...hmmm...he will have to think about that one

[GavinDragon]

yep if he goes I hope it is to England and not to any other region

[ScarletSpiderman]

Gatland can't block the move all he can do is make Faletau aware that if he does go it may or may not harm his Welsh chances.

After that it's down to Taulupe to decide what route he wants to go.

I was under the understanding that the WRU had to clear early release of players, especially from a team they part own.

[ScarletSpiderman]

The reason he is linked with the Scarlets is purely because we are Welsh, and in the Champions Cup.

We have 3 number 8s, but two are injury prone and one is unproven. It's not stockpiling (as such). Faletau would be a good addition and give us a balanced back row. But truth be told we couldn't afford him. We are done with signings bar a replacement centre for Warren (who was poached)

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