NH teams will be lacking match sharpness at WC ?

How far before the wc will each squad be training for . presumably about 1 month - ie. before the start of the rabo/ aviva season

the rabo/ aviva starts in september 5th and wc on october 10th.....

so this begs question what match sharpness will these players have ?

They will be fresh and fit, well prepared

I you look at their opening fixtures.

England vs Fiji
Wales vs Uruguay
Scotland vs Japan
Ireland vs Canada
France vs Italy.

I would suggest they won't be worried

Ice box training in Poland.

There will be friendly/warm up games in the summer as well, the last time I think we played England twice, home and away, and Argentina all in the August of that year, so with the WC starting in September, you would think that Wales would probably have a few games in the June/August months before hand. So they will be well prepared and Gatlandised by the time the WC comes around.

The warm up games.................. don't know whether I like them or not.   Yeah, yeah............ they keep the joints lubricated and keep up the essential gametime experience etc etc ( I know the publicity blurbs that go on around them).... but they can also drop enough injuries to pretty much drop any prospects into the sewer.

I'd have to go over the details again - but I think we (Ireland) are playing five games during that warm-up period when you include the Barbarians.  I think England play the next highest at four (so far).  The rest are on three so far - I think (correct me if wrong).  Like I said that's only going from memory, I'd have to recheck.
But if it's true I'm not gone on Ireland playing so many times - unless it a genuine trial for mostly fringe players trying to impress one last time.  I don't want to see people like Sexton or Heaslip or O'Connell or POM or even Healy and O'Brien (if they're back) playing too big a part in any of these games. Three at most should be enough.

The NH will be rusty and the SH will be tired. Everyone's gonna whinge about it again.

disneychilly wrote:The NH will be rusty and the SH will be tired. Everyone's gonna whinge about it again.

Oh yes. After all, the only difference between winning and whinging is a couple of letters...

lostinwales wrote:

disneychilly wrote:The NH will be rusty and the SH will be tired. Everyone's gonna whinge about it again.

Oh yes. After all, the only difference between winning and whinging is a couple of letters...

Or Points

SecretFly wrote:The warm up games.................. don't know whether I like them or not.  

Ahhh don't mention the warmups ...from the Battle of Bayonne to Wally's career ending injury whilst being tanked at twickenham... they usually signal the beginning of the end of Irelands campain!

SecretFly wrote:The warm up games.................. don't know whether I like them or not.   Yeah, yeah............ they keep the joints lubricated and keep up the essential gametime experience etc etc ( I know the publicity blurbs that go on around them).... but they can also drop enough injuries to pretty much drop any prospects into the sewer.

I'd have to go over the details again - but I think we (Ireland) are playing five games during that warm-up period when you include the Barbarians.  I think England play the next highest at four (so far).  The rest are on three so far - I think (correct me if wrong).  Like I said that's only going from memory, I'd have to recheck.
But if it's true I'm not gone on Ireland playing so many times - unless it a genuine trial for mostly fringe players trying to impress one last time.  I don't want to see people like Sexton or Heaslip or O'Connell or POM or even Healy and O'Brien (if they're back) playing too big a part in any of these games.  Three at most should be enough.

Scotland play 4 games, Italy (Home and Away) and away games against France and Ireland.

Suppose its the a balancing act, can't go into a World Cup having team that's not played a match in best part of five months. I am sure the workloads will be managed, with most players playing on 3 (at most) of the warm ups.

Also can't see many of the WC hopefuls playing any PRO 12 until after the World Cup.

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
Scotland play 4 games, Italy (Home and Away) and away games against France and Ireland.

Suppose its the a balancing act, can't go into a World Cup having team that's not played a match in best part of five months.  I am sure the workloads will be managed, with most players playing on 3 (at most) of the warm ups.

Also can't see many of the WC hopefuls playing any PRO 12 until after the World Cup.

Its the sides we're playing matches against that bothers me. These guys are seasonal rivals.
They can't help themselves when they meet each other - winning becomes an emotion that pushes hard and before anyone knows it, or wants it, the warm-ups have become furious encounters with no quarter given or asked for.

Now some will say that's what you want going into the WC, fierce heavy duty contests. Me, I'm not all that certain it's what I want. I don't want warm-ups becoming premature WCs where all the best stuff is seen there and then either injuries take care of the rest, or the inevitable slump in form hits just when you're hearing your anthem played in that first World Cup game!

http://www.rfu.com/news/2013/february/news-articles/040213_qbe

England are playing three games.

Ireland France at home

France away

For once I agree with secretfly I am not sure you want those kind of games going into the world cup.

I don't think match fitness will be a problem! It's form and injuries which will be factors!

beshocked wrote:http://www.rfu.com/news/2013/february/news-articles/040213_qbe

England are playing three games.

Ireland France at home

France away

For once I agree with secretfly I am not sure you want those kind of games going into the world cup.

I don't think match fitness will be a problem! It's form and injuries which will be factors!

England are also playing against a Barbarian side I think. 125th Anniversary year for them or something of that sort. England and Ireland. Again, don't quote me until you confirm it yourself. I'm just going on my recollections.

You're probably right though I haven't seen it written down yet.

From a SH perspective the SA NZ game is again going to be held at Ellis Park. So the SARU are really placing must-win status on this test as there was quite a lot of noise to give this game to Cape Town.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The warm up games.................. don't know whether I like them or not.  

Ahhh don't mention the warmups ...from the Battle of Bayonne to Wally's career ending injury whilst being tanked at twickenham... they usually signal the beginning of the end of Irelands campain!  

Geordan Murphy broke his leg in a warm up game too.

There will always be injuries however, it is worth sacrificing a player or two if it means the greater squad is battle hardened.

There have been many different pre world cup camps:

SA: kamp staaldraad
Wales: Poland
NZ: big gym sessions pre '07

However, there is no substitution for being match fit.

SecretFly wrote:

beshocked wrote:http://www.rfu.com/news/2013/february/news-articles/040213_qbe

England are playing three games.

Ireland France at home

France away

For once I agree with secretfly I am not sure you want those kind of games going into the world cup.

I don't think match fitness will be a problem! It's form and injuries which will be factors!

England are also playing against a Barbarian side I think. 125th Anniversary year for them or something of that sort.  England and Ireland.  Again, don't quote me until you confirm it yourself.  I'm just going on my recollections.

Re. the Barbarians game (if it happens). England will put out an England XV and won't cap it so i doubt more than a handful of the WC squad will even be involved unless they need game time. For example, the June game had this starting 15.

England XV: E Daly (Wasps), S Rokoduguni, J Joseph (both Bath), S Hill (Exeter), C Sharples (Gloucester), H Slade (Exeter), J Simpson (Wasps), R Harrison (Sale), R Buchanan, K Sinkler (both Harlequins), M Paterson (Sale), G Kitchener (capt), J Gibson (both Leicester), L Wallace (Harlequins), D Ewers (Exeter).

Agree that you want some intensity in the WC warm-up games but not too much. I'd rather not play 6Ns sides especially if there any scores to settle after the 6Ns! Problem being that you need sides of a decent calibre who are close to home.

alive555 wrote: NH teams will be lacking match sharpness at WC ?

Well, for one, I can assure England will be cutting edge fit, running fantastic incisive lines, playing brilliant flowing Rugby, and videos of their matches will be enshrined in Fine Art musuems around the world under the title of 'The Artistic Beauty of Sport'.  

Can there be any doubts?

DrGrey wrote:and videos of their matches will be enshrined in Fine Art musuems around the world under the title of 'The Artistic Beauty of Sport'

Such a shame

doctor_grey wrote:

alive555 wrote: NH teams will be lacking match sharpness at WC ?

Well, for one, I can assure England will be cutting edge fit, running fantastic incisive lines, playing brilliant flowing Rugby, and videos of their matches will be enshrined in Fine Art musuems around the world under the title of 'The Artistic Beauty of Sport'.  

Can there be any doubts?

No doubts here Doc - it's going to happen...

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The warm up games.................. don't know whether I like them or not.  

Ahhh don't mention the warmups ...from the Battle of Bayonne to Wally's career ending injury whilst being tanked at twickenham... they usually signal the beginning of the end of Irelands campain!  

Assuming you mean David Wallace, didn;t his career end in the warm-up match in Dublin?

Wales have announced their warm up games, Ireland home and away and Italy, that will do nicely thanks:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/30501573

How come I've known all this for weeks and others seem to be only learning and/or declaring it now?

Just goes to show you - Wiki ain't always wrong

LondonTiger wrote:

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The warm up games.................. don't know whether I like them or not.  

Ahhh don't mention the warmups ...from the Battle of Bayonne to Wally's career ending injury whilst being tanked at twickenham... they usually signal the beginning of the end of Irelands campain!  

Assuming you mean David Wallace, didn;t his career end in the warm-up match in Dublin?

Very sad end to a great career. Very unlucky to fall like that when hit by Tuilagi. Having said that I was amused by this quote from the irish independnt about the game. (Not saying it was entirely wrong either, but..)

'The latest chapter was the most demoralising. Losing to England is unpleasant at the best of times, being blown away by Martin Johnson's meat-and-veg side with its cynical approach to the game and mercenary reliance on southern hemisphere imports was particularly galling.'

LordDowlais wrote:Wales have announced their warm up games, Ireland home and away and Italy, that will do nicely thanks:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/30501573

Also announced training camps in Poland, French Alps and Qatar desert. The head of physical performance, Adam Beard, has stated that while in the Alps they will "live high, train low" to get the benefits of altitude but also to be able to train at full intensity.

Talking about the desert camp he stated that he had experimented with the Lions in Hong Kong to help fine tune Wales RWC training plans!!

Ireland have training camps in the Gobi, Death Valley, the Amazon and the Mariana Trench!

Beat that England! Although I hear Lancaster is in talks with NASA, so it's likely somewhere like Mars they're heading to.

By the way: "live high, train low"........................... direct admission of smoking psychedelic stuff for sporting gains?

I think England will be training in Yorkshire.

The answer to the original question is no. The reason is that mid September is probably the optimal time for a world cup from a European perspective.

It's earlier than usual and their are not club matches to build form. However, that is offset by involvement in the national team from the end of this season, warm up games and friendlies. They'll be fresh and will have time to build relationships. The SH nations will have had time as a unit. Although not as much as one might think. They will almost certainly be tired given the time of year.

If anything NH teams do better at world cups than expected.

they may lack sharpness but the SH season will be a long one and those players will be tired no matter how many breaks they get.

fa0019 wrote:If anything NH teams do better at world cups than expected.

they may lack sharpness but the SH season will be a long one and those players will be tired no matter how many breaks they get.

Nah that's just SA players apparently.

The Saint wrote:

fa0019 wrote:If anything NH teams do better at world cups than expected.

they may lack sharpness but the SH season will be a long one and those players will be tired no matter how many breaks they get.

Nah that's just SA players apparently.

I take it by your response it only works for other teams, eh?

Biltong wrote:

The Saint wrote:

fa0019 wrote:If anything NH teams do better at world cups than expected.

they may lack sharpness but the SH season will be a long one and those players will be tired no matter how many breaks they get.

Nah that's just SA players apparently.

I take it by your response it only works for other teams, eh?

I don't think the SH sides will be tired at all. If anything they'll be underdone. We have 5 tests in 5 weeks before it, including Samoa. That's light.