We Go Again! The 2014/15 Premier League Thread

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Dirty, scheming, diving sh!thouse.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Dolph, the standard of defending is shocking at the moment and there is no chance that any English defender is near the level of Charlton let alone Moore. Best would tear defences apart today with the amount of protection he'd get.

Perceived level. If you think of the level of skill of modern day footballers, defending is hugely improved

[Dolphin Ziggler]

If you were Big Sam now Dolph, Sell Reid for 4-7m or let him go free in summer

Let him go on a free. We'll do better with him and the pittance we'll get now isnt worth it. Plus, until he signs a pre-contract there is still a chance of keeping him

[Guest]

with him, WHU might come top 7/8 & get £16/17m for finishing position, but sell him & start leaking goals, worst WHU will finish is a top 10, which you get about £13m. So sell him for £5m now, struggle slightly & come 10th, equates to about the same as keeping him & finishing top 7/8. If you get my drift.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Dolph, the standard of defending is shocking at the moment and there is no chance that any English defender is near the level of Charlton let alone Moore. Best would tear defences apart today with the amount of protection he'd get.

Perceived level. If you think of the level of skill of modern day footballers, defending is hugely improved

It really isn't, the skill level of Beckenbauer and Moore was far higher than anybody around today, when John Terry is an excellent defender you know things have regressed. Alan Hansen would easily be the best defender in the premier league were he around today and Lawrenson would be fairly high up to.

Defending isn't about skill, it's about temprement, concentration and an ability to read the game, all of which are going out the window in favour of guys who can't defend but can pick a pass.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

with him, WHU might come top 7/8 & get £16/17m for finishing position, but sell him & start leaking goals, worst WHU will finish is a top 10, which you get about £13m. So sell him for £5m now, struggle slightly & come 10th, equates to about the same as keeping him & finishing top 7/8. If you get my drift.

No glory in it though. A top 8 finish is huge, top 10, whilst fractionally lower, just doesnt have the same buzz

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Dolph, the standard of defending is shocking at the moment and there is no chance that any English defender is near the level of Charlton let alone Moore. Best would tear defences apart today with the amount of protection he'd get.

Perceived level. If you think of the level of skill of modern day footballers, defending is hugely improved

It really isn't, the skill level of Beckenbauer and Moore was far higher than anybody around today, when John Terry is an excellent defender you know things have regressed. Alan Hansen would easily be the best defender in the premier league were he around today and Lawrenson would be fairly high up to.

Defending isn't about skill, it's about temprement, concentration and an ability to read the game, all of which are going out the window in favour of guys who can't defend but can pick a pass.

Thats nonsense. The pace of the game is so much higher, tactics are so much more defined and the rules protect attackers far more too, yet there isnt some huge influx of 6-5 scores. I love Bobby, hes a hero of every West Ham fan and you get educated on him as you grow up, but plonk him into a game now and he'd puff out his arse. John Terry's reading of the game from a defensive position is outstanding. Sure, hes protected by a Chelsea line that doesnt let his pace get exposed, but his reading of the game and command of a defence is incredible. Rio was world class in this modern era too. Nowadays there are so many things that get you taken out of the game. The likes of Bobby and Beckenbauer would be holding midfielders without a doubt.

The dearth in quality of centre backs says as much about how poor defensive midfielders are these days. Steven Gerrard was heralded for his displays there last year, but his defending has never been brilliant. Matic shouldnt be so stand out, there should be a plethora of his sort, but no one in the league compares. It completely underestimates the advancement in the game to suggest these players could do anywhere near the levels of performance they reached back then.

[Hammersmith harrier]

John Terry can't read the game Dolph that's why he has always had to resort to last ditch tackles much like Carragher.

I can't believe you're honestly trying to say that John Terry is better than Bobby Moore and Franz Beckenbauer.

[kwinigolfer]

Dolphin,
It's all relative isn't it?
Conditions are far superior now, fitness levels are way up, the ball zips about quicker than ever.
But the greats of yesteryear would still have been great - you can't compare one set of sportsmen of one era with another set of today's.
I saw Moore and all the best of the rest of his era, including Beckenbauer, as well as following the game avidly today. I think you're misguided, especially if you think the likes of John Terry read the game any better than Moore. Think it was Jimmy Greaves who said Moore read the game better than Sonic the Hedgehog - sure there's a modern analogy, but it's not John Terry (who anyway is a different type of player).

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Of course he is, the problem being that I dont think if things were equal that Terry would be better than Moore, but if Moore was suddenly plonked in today he'd be blowing out his arse and have no chance.

So, I'm not saying level playing field that Terry is better, cos just plonking people into our era I'd say most modern players are better than men from 40 years ago. Terry doesnt read the game to the exalted standards Moore did in his era, but its a hell of a lot harder to read the game at todays pace, with todays opponents and the tactics around football.

John Terry's reading of the game is so underrated. Its fairly ignorant to suggest John Terry is always resorting to last ditch tackles. Jose Mourinho, not the most sentimental of souls, pretty much bases his whole defence around Terry. Not to protect one man, but because Terry is the best defender they have. I'm not a huge Terry fan, but he's an outstanding player.

The most similar to Moore is/was Rio, although the difference being that Rio's concentration wasnt as good but pace was better.

[Hammersmith harrier]

On what basis does Moore struggle with the perceived pace of today which by and large is over exaggerated? He and Beckenbauer were so good that they could waltz through games because they read the game better than anybody else not because apparent lack of apparent fitness didn't get showed up.

Terry's reading of the game is over rated, he benefited for years from Ferdinand and Cole's pace, it's not a popular view but he made a lot of mistakes for England. Hell he only ever got in the team because of Rio's suspension and the injuries to King and Woodgate, he's just not as good as you're making out.

Terry does well in a defensively set up team but gets shown up in an attacking team because he doesn't read the game well enough to make up for his lack of pace. He can sit back with a defensive midfield but that does not make him a great defender, he's merely a cog in a defensive unit.

It's a very narrow minded view to assume that players of today are better because they're more modern.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I think its naive to think advancements in the sport have had very little impact.

[Hammersmith harrier]

The evidence suggests otherwise when it comes to defending Dolph.

The Gerrard situation is highlighting why Carragher is an awful pundit, too easily swayed by his heart instead of evaluating the actual reality.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I hate John Fashanu with every inch of my being

[Crimey]

To be fair Carragher is only one voice in a sea of voices saying that Liverpool are making a mistake which I think is actually pretty obvious.

Wilfried Bony apparently in advanced talks with Manchester City, probably about £30 million. Think that will spell the end of Dzeko in the summer, similar player to Bony and cant see both playing often.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I'm sorry but isn't Gerrard the one who's decided to leave? Club haven't forced him out at all

[Crimey]

I think it's pretty clear that the club's attitude has played a part in his decision, I think him being left out of the Bernabeu game was a really cruel decision. Gerrard made a good point saying that he retired from international duty to play more games for Liverpool so he didn't have to miss the big ones and Rodgers then dropped him for the biggest.

I know some like you will say that Liverpool are justified in telling him he won't be playing as much because he's old and not as good, but this season I still think he has been one of Liverpool's best players and he does know how to perform in big games. I think it was Shearer who said that he should have been treated in a similar way to Scholes and Giggs were towards the end, which is they might not play every game but the big games they were there.

We obviously don't know the ins and outs and I do think Gerrard is trying to encourage this angle so as to keep the love from the fans. I think, as I said before, that his heart isn't quite in it after the horror ending to last season and how this season has gone but I do feel the club and Rodgers have handled it really poorly.

Gerrard is still a class player and definitely worth keeping, but at least, fingers crossed, losing him won't he as directly damaging as Chelsea losing Lampard has been.

[westisbest]

I hate John Fashanu with every inch of my being

Why is that?

Loved him when he was at the Villa

[PF4EC]

I think its kind of telling that they didnt offer him a contract until after the press found out. If they really wanted him to stay they offer a contract before the start of the season. A few of the pundits mentioned something doesn't seem to be right. It might be FSG rather than Brendan, though agger reported he fell out with BR before he left.

[Liam]

Trouble is with Gerrard is that for me, he needs to play cam at his age. He hasn't got the ability to control the game from deep. He doesn't know how to, which is why I'll always hold Scholes in a higher regard because he's played the role further forward and did very well, whilst also adapting and becoming a fantastic deep lying playmaker and controlling games even into his late 30's. Gerrard couldn't accept the fact he isn't up to that role any more yet still wanted to be playing week in week out when in fact, it harms the balance of the team. He's selfish if you ask me. He should've accepted that the best decision for the club and him was to play the role Lampard is playing for City. Playing further forward, last 30 mins of games and starting every other.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Better off going, Rodgers will damage his legacy with his sheer incompetence of how to manage him

[Crimey]

Except last season Gerrard was fantastic in that role and was a huge reason for the success of the team playing in that deep position and I think its total rubbish that he can't play there. For me the criticism of Gerrard playing too many "Hollywood" passes is totally unfounded and not reflected in reality.

I don't agree that his legs have gone either, he's never been a particularly pacey player and I don't think he has a noticeable lack of stamina or pace now often chasing back younger and supposedly quicker players.

I am obviously not sure what has happened but I think its a real shame that he has moved to the USA as I think he had more to offer at a higher level.

[Stella]

His legs have definitely gone, or at least going, since his rampaging days of yesteryear. He's slower across the ground. That said, I'd still want him in my team, if I were a Liverpool fan.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

To be fair, a lot of people still questioned his ability there last year. Savage mentioned on BBC a couple times that he thinks Gerrard could play centre back in a 3 man defence, but I don't think he sees enough from a defensive perspective for that to work. Carrick isn't a perfect defensive midfielder, but hes got a better sense of responsibility than Gerrard.

I don't think Gerrard can be the base of a midfield on his own. He was poor for England, and I'm entirely sure that his blushes were saved as a player last year by the brilliance of Suarez, Sturridge n Sterling.

[guildfordbat]

...

I am obviously not sure what has happened but I think its a real shame that he has moved to the USA as I think he had more to offer at a higher level.

Crimey - yes, although if Gerrard wasn't to remain at Liverpool, I'm not sure where else he could have gone. Unlike Lampard being happily picked up by Man City, I doubt that any leading English team would want him now ... and he merits somewhere a lot better than, say, Stoke who probably would have come knocking.

[Liam]

Except last season Gerrard was fantastic in that role and was a huge reason for the success of the team playing in that deep position and I think its total rubbish that he can't play there. For me the criticism of Gerrard playing too many "Hollywood" passes is totally unfounded and not reflected in reality.

I don't agree that his legs have gone either, he's never been a particularly pacey player and I don't think he has a noticeable lack of stamina or pace now often chasing back younger and supposedly quicker players.

I am obviously not sure what has happened but I think its a real shame that he has moved to the USA as I think he had more to offer at a higher level.

Thing is, for me, he looked good because teams were so worried about suarez and sturridge at the other end that he was allowed time on the ball. Teams have learnt to close him down and he struggles. Scholes was a master of dragging players all over the place and playing little 5 yard passes even under pressure. If you don't think his legs have gone I think you maybe need to watch him closer, because its plain to see. He made his name as an attacking midfielder, making surges into the box and getting up and down the pitch. Now, he struggles with the pace despite not being required to do that. For me, it's no coincidence that I keep seeing stats that show Liverpool tend to win more games without Gerrard than with him.

[Crimey]

I agree that obviously having Sturridge and Suarez in front of him helped him thrive, but that for me is a failure of the transfer committee not signing a player who runs a lot instead signing the static Balotelli and Lambert.

That stat was also the same as it was with Suarez and has a lot more to do with the type of games those players miss.

[Liam]

Why did the Remy deal fall through? He was exactly what you needed up top. I didn't get the Lambert or Balotelli signings at all, just didn't make any sense. Also Rodgers made the same mistake we made with Scholes is relying on an ageing legend and not getting in a replacement. A midfield playmaker should have been on of the top priorities for the summer for me.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It doesnt help that Gerrard has no width to play with and no quality beside him in midfield.

[mystiroakey]

Well lambert was a squad filler for cheap. Balotteli was a last minute meltdown of epic proportions when no one else could be got.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I hate John Fashanu with every inch of my being

Why is that?

Loved him when he was at the Villa

"@OliverKayTimes: "Fash" refers to the Crazy Gang as "the brothers I never had". That's "Fash" as in John Fashanu, brother of the more talented Justin."

Basically westi, he's an utter Kumquat for actually disowning his brother when he came out as gay

[Duty281]

I hate John Fashanu with every inch of my being

Why is that?

Loved him when he was at the Villa

"@OliverKayTimes: "Fash" refers to the Crazy Gang as "the brothers I never had". That's "Fash" as in John Fashanu, brother of the more talented Justin."

Basically westi, he's an utter Kumquat for actually disowning his brother when he came out as gay

Quite agree.

[Guest]

Reports that Remi Garde is in talks about being new head coach at Newcastle. Not surprised, if true.

[Duty281]

The odds seem to fluctuate massively.

Remi Garde was the favourite this morning, now Tim Sherwood is. Steve McClaren has slipped right out of contention and, good lord, the odds are shortening on Ally McCoist!

Sleep easy, John...

[mystiroakey]

I allways though Sherwood would be the man for this job.. and not much has changed..

[Guest]

Can see tears if Sherwood is appointed. He's not wanted, De Boer is what the fans want & even Garde has more popularity than Sherwood in polls, so it won't go down well. It will just look like Ashley's appointed another southern puppet, who will be easily controlled in the short term. Once Sherwood gets into the job though & the pressure builds, his character will come out & no doubt he'll start mouthing off like he did with Tottenham & he'll be out the door.

[Guest]

Yeah, if a manager isn't wanted up their in the first place, they rarely give him a chance. At first he'll be grateful for the job, but once the reality of the job & the restriction put on him play out, his fiery character, like we saw at Spurs, will come out again & he'll no doubt clash with the fans.

[Stella]

I wouldn't go there. A few bad results and you're in the dock.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Sherwood please. Won't go anywhere with him in charge.

[mystiroakey]

I wouldn't go there. A few bad results and you're in the dock.

I am not sure if you are on the short list

[mystiroakey]

Can see tears if Sherwood is appointed. He's not wanted, De Boer is what the fans want & even Garde has more popularity than Sherwood in polls, so it won't go down well. It will just look like Ashley's appointed another southern puppet, who will be easily controlled in the short term. Once Sherwood gets into the job though & the pressure builds, his character will come out & no doubt he'll start mouthing off like he did with Tottenham & he'll be out the door.

yep but sadly i cant see much changing at your club in the short term..

when are the owners coming in?

Is that close to being sorted out or not?

[Stella]

I wouldn't go there. A few bad results and you're in the dock.

I am not sure if you are on the short list

They could do worse. Actually.........

[mystiroakey]

I think I could handle 50k crazy Geordie fans in vest tops screaming at me- for the chance to manage a PL team for a few months..

[Stella]

I think I could handle 50k crazy Geordie fans in vest tops screaming at me- for the chance to manage a PL team for a few months..

Until you take them down

[mystiroakey]

Yes i would if it meant Palace staying up

[lfc91]

Could have been 3 or 4 up here...so put your money on a Sunderland win because going by how we've been this season we will end up throwing this away!

[mystiroakey]

Yep . The scousers are playing very well and you should have scored more.

But I think that decision has won you the game(red)

[Fernando]

Big sam has been left out by West Ham due to chest infection.

The fat man that is Adel Taarabt returns for QPR

[lfc91]

Balotelli is truly hideous at everything

[lfc91]

Should have been put to bed after that first half, good to actually win that sort of game though because to often this season we've thrown them away!

[Fernando]

Random Stat of the day

Man Citeh haven't won away from home without Yaya Toure since Jan 2013

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