Ongoing NFL Discussion Thread V

[GSC]

First topic message reminder :

Manziel is learning school yard football doesn't cut it in the NFL.

Until he learns the basics this will continue

[GSC]

Yeah its saying I don't have enough evidence to accuse, but its pretty much true, assisted by Brady not cooperating.

Sadly its another stain on the Patriots "dynasty"

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Gronk responds by flexing his biceps.

That man is actually my hero

[Number-25]

So Robert Kraft thinks that the conclusion of the Ted Wells report is "incomprehensible" and that to say they are disappointed is a "gross understatement".

By the way Mr Kraft, where were you when the league was busy hammering the Redskins for "breaking" salary cap rules in a year when there was no salary cap? Oh, that's right, you were cosying up to your big buddies Roger Goodell and John Mara.

Kinda hurts when the league shafts you doesn't it??

[Number-25]

BTW, can someone please shut LeSean McCoy up?? I know he has the propensity to talk **** at the best of times but to pull out the "Is it coz I is black" line, is just a tad tiresome.

[Lowlandbrit]

Gronk responds by flexing his biceps.

That man is actually my hero

http://deadspin.com/gronk-theres-only-one-thing-you-can-deflate-deez-nut-1702720123

[GSC]

Love Shady, but he's always had a habit of speaking before he thinks.

Hes probably drunk calling Chip at 3am at this point.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Gronk responds by flexing his biceps.

That man is actually my hero

http://deadspin.com/gronk-theres-only-one-thing-you-can-deflate-deez-nut-1702720123

Peak Gronk

[Thomond]

The whole Chip Kelly is a racist thing doesn't really make any sense, so I'm just going to ignore it.

On the Patriots, yeah they cheated, I don't think it had a big impact on the game. Suspend Brady for 4 games, give them a fine and take a draft pick and move on.

[Number-25]

Deflate-gate feels like the most overblown (no pun) story of the year. Pats would still be champions and Brady the best QB in the league without deflated footballs.

I find it funny though that we're supposed to believe that a Coach as meticulous as Belichick wouldn't know about it if it was genuinely going on.

It's a non-story. If they need to be punished make it a token gesture of a 7th round draft pick and a fine to the sort of value that Kraft probably has kicking around on the floor of his car.

Don't suspend Brady though. Don't take one of the best players out of the league for a few weeks over something like this.

[NYJ]

Deflate-gate feels like the most overblown (no pun) story of the year. Pats would still be champions and Brady the best QB in the league without deflated footballs.

I find it funny though that we're supposed to believe that a Coach as meticulous as Belichick wouldn't know about it if it was genuinely going on.

It's a non-story. If they need to be punished make it a token gesture of a 7th round draft pick and a fine to the sort of value that Kraft probably has kicking around on the floor of his car.

Don't suspend Brady though. Don't take one of the best players out of the league for a few weeks over something like this.

Why not? I'm all for it.

[GSC]

Yeah I could happily watch the Pats get spanked in the opener

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Yeah I'd be surprised if he didn't get a game or two suspension - although I reckon Garappolo could do a serviceable job in the interim (especially given the whole pre-season to prepare)

Still the timing makes me think it'll be a fine - just after the draft so they don't look stupid by not taking picks, but far enough away from the opener that people will forget the non suspension.

Either way a quick decision would be preferable for all

[skins4ever]

It's cheating, whether it's a minor infraction or not - you get caught, you get punished. But if you suspend a guy 4-16 games for drugs/wife beating etc., you can't suspend Brady for more than 1 or 2 games, it's disproportionate.

And it wouldn't surprise me if Bill knew nothing. Brady bungs the equipment guys a few grand (chump change) to help him out, he certainly isn't going to go out his way to make the coach aware.

[skins4ever]

La'el Collins (was his mom a Star Trek fan?) has signed with the Cowboys. The Eagles had a jail in their stadium, so the Cowboys going one better and turning theirs into one?

[Thomond]

Darren McFadden will get the single season rushing record before he gets injured for the season in the second quarter of week one.

[Forward Pass]

This was a given considering the rest of our off season/draft pick ups

[NYJ]

Stats Show the New England Patriots Became Nearly Fumble-Proof after 2006 Rule Change Proposed by Tom Brady

[GSC]

Darren McFadden is terrible.

Randle will be the #1 back.

[Number-25]

The Cowboys are certainly making themselves hard to like this offseason.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

So TJ Yeldon fumbles in the first 11 on 11 and Dante Fowler has to be carried off the field with a knee injury.

Oh Jacksonville never change

[Skyforger]

At the time of the offence one of the networks dug out the rule book which says that ball tampering is a fine, with penalties for each offence. No mention of suspensions.

If they suspend Brady its because he's a Patriot and he's Brady. There is no way of knowing in how many of their games balls may have been adjusted, just as there is no way of knowing who else tampered with their balls (snigger) throughout the season. Just because they were the only ones caught doesn't mean they were the only offender.

The fact that the Pats didn't just throw a disposable game day official under the bus and take the fine to make it a non-story makes me more willing to believe that it wasn't some grand conspiracy. To read claims that this is a bigger deal that a deliberate plan to injure opposing players by paying bounties for potential career ending hits is laughable.

The investigation report is poor and the NFL's handling of the whole issue has been shambolic.

[GSC]

I hate the "we don't know who else was doing it" defense.

Utterly irrelevant.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

So TJ Yeldon fumbles in the first 11 on 11 and Dante Fowler has to be carried off the field with a knee injury.

Oh Jacksonville never change

Torn ACL for Fowler. That's ridiculously bad luck

[GSC]

La'el had the right idea on how to skip Jacksonville

[NYJ]

I hate the "we don't know who else was doing it" defense.

Utterly irrelevant.

Yeah. Ray Rice shouldn't have been suspended for hitting his wife because we don't know who else is doing it.

Pats fans smugness about the whole thing is what really bothers me. There is no conspiracy. The NFL does not hate New England. You did break the rules.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Brady suspended four games, docked two draft picks and fined a million

Yeah that's getting reduced on appeal folks

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

If it does stand he'll return against Indy - 50 burger time

[GSC]

If the NFL wanted a reduced on appeal verdict, he'd have been suspended for 10 games like Hardy

[skins4ever]

It'll wrangle and I bet it goes down to 2 games. Curious - do they suspend without pay? Wondering how much the Pat will get back of the $1M by not paying him...

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

If the NFL wanted a reduced on appeal verdict, he'd have been suspended for 10 games like Hardy

Tbf I'm more worried about getting the 1st rounder back than getting the suspension reduced - we'll go 2-2 anyways

[twelve283]

Brady suspended four games, docked two draft picks and fined a million

lolz total BS. Guess if you cant beat 'em.....

[Skyforger]

Pats fans smugness about the whole thing is what really bothers me. There is no conspiracy. The NFL does not hate New England. You did break the rules.

Indy tells the league they have concerns over the balls. Does the NFL a) Tell the Pats of these concerns, b) Check the balls before the game starts or c) check them half way through every game so they can make a big deal out of it.

If we get punished because it was "more probable than not" that we broke the rules then fine. Do it and move on. But in this case the league decided it was more important to catch someone breaking the rules than to ensure they were enforced. I'm not sure how this helps anyone.

[Thomond]

Personally think it;s disproportionate to the actual offence. The docking of picks also seems to be a bit harsh, when the blame has been placed on 2 equipment guys and Brady but I suppose as Roger is fond of saying "ignorance is not an excuse". They'll be fine, win a few games and move on. They should be more concerned with the great lack of depth in the secondary now.

[NYJ]

Pats fans smugness about the whole thing is what really bothers me. There is no conspiracy. The NFL does not hate New England. You did break the rules.

Indy tells the league they have concerns over the balls. Does the NFL a) Tell the Pats of these concerns, b) Check the balls before the game starts or c) check them half way through every game so they can make a big deal out of it.

If we get punished because it was "more probable than not" that we broke the rules then fine. Do it and move on. But in this case the league decided it was more important to catch someone breaking the rules than to ensure they were enforced. I'm not sure how this helps anyone.

Is that what happened though? I thought D'Qwell Jackson intercepted a ball which he then gave to his sideline. The Colts sideline thinks something is up, alerts officials and the officials check the balls at HT.

Have I dreamed this?

[GSC]

It amuses me Pats fans are crying bias when Goodells is (was) closest to Kraft of all the owners

[skins4ever]

Is that what happened though? I thought D'Qwell Jackson intercepted a ball which he then gave to his sideline. The Colts sideline thinks something is up, alerts officials and the officials check the balls at HT.

Have I dreamed this?

That's what I read originally.

The ban and the draft pick are a bit harsh, but consider this may be what happened:

Jackson goes to the sideling and says, hey ref, this ball feels a bit flat it needs swapping out. Ref checks ball and asks ball boy/equipment manager/whoever to hand him another. He thinks, hmm this one feels a bit low to. Speaks to umpire who says, we can't hold up the game for what may be a few underinflated balls, check them all at the half. They are checked and a high number of the Pats balls are underinflated. Considering that they are brand new and checked by the refs before the game, this is highly suspect so gets reported.

Whether that is precisely what happened or not, it's the gist of it. The facts are that the balls were all checked pre-game before being handed to the teams and at the half the pats balls were found to be at fault and the Indy balls were not. Same batch of balls and only one teams are underinflated is not a fluke, its tampering and a BREACH OF THE RULES. I highlight that bit as I believe the rules apply to ball tampering during a game and effectively to one or two balls, not all of them, though I am happy to be correct3ed on the exact wording.

The punishment, while harsh compared to others, is being handed out because the Pats, whether TB and an equipment guy were the only ones who knew or the whole organisation, were shown to have cheated. The investigation, however, failed to find a smoking gun or catch the culprit red handed (PS anyone who's handled a ball brand new and unsullied will get this joke). So they say that it is highly likely TB knew, as the QB's specify the ball set up pre-game, and whether it's the equipment manager, the HC or even the owner, someone in the organisation did it and/or knew about it. So the QB who is party to the set up and the organisation, who employ the person or persons who did it, get punished.

The ruling is not wrong, but the punishment stands to be argued down through lack of direct evidence. The sensible thing to have done would be for the member of staff to come forward on the day/the day after and admit what he did, probably face a fine etc. (or even be sacked if the team wanted a scapegoat) and swear Brady never knew. As it is, by obfuscating and trying to avoid giving a straight answer, they condemned themselves.

Oh, and one last thing. Brady's agent hasn't shut up about this from day one. Methinks thee doth protest too much.

[NYJ]

Good post and I agree.

You can't deny that they have broken the rules and you can't say that there is a league wide conspiracy against the Pats (which is many of the puddle drinkers argument).

[GSC]

I believe the Pats cheated.

I also believe this investigation is going to be destroyed in court. I wholly disagree with the concept of punishing someone for not turning over their private correspondence when they are not obligated to.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I believe the Pats cheated.

I also believe this investigation is going to be destroyed in court. I wholly disagree with the concept of punishing someone for not turning over their private correspondence when they are not obligated to.

Heck even I believe we cheated - and I agree that report will get destroyed in court. He doesn't come to any definitive conclusions.

And also agree on the phone thing - in the age of TMZ etc etc why on earth would one of the world's biggest sports stars turn over his private phone

[Skyforger]

Text of email sent by Colts GM to the NFL before the game containing comments from the Colts equipment manager:

"As far as the gameballs are concerned it is well known around the league that after the Patriots gameballs are checked by the officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the patriots will let out some air with a ball needle because their quarterback likes a smaller football so he can grip it better, it would be great if someone would be able to check the air in the game balls as the game goes on so that they don‟t get an illegal advantage."

Jackson has gone on record to state that he had no idea if the ball was underinflated or not. He handed the ball to an equipment guy because he wanted it as a trophy (I think it may have been his first interception?) not because he had concerns over the ball.

[GSC]

Put it this way, the NFL swore blind they had no idea the police had delivered a video of Ray Rice beating his wife to their front door.

I wouldn't be turning my phone over to them

[Thomond]

Apparently they were looking for specific texts/emails and what have you, from the phone instead of completely handing it over. Can understand why you wouldn't do it.

Also The Patriots just set up a website with some of their own hot takes on the contents of the Report. McNally is called "the deflator" as he was trying to lose weight. So you suspended two employees without cause then?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Well lets face it after the McNally texts about Brady he was hardly gonna stick for long...

[NYJ]

Text of email sent by Colts GM to the NFL before the game containing comments from the Colts equipment manager:

"As far as the gameballs are concerned it is well known around the league that after the Patriots gameballs are checked by the officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the patriots will let out some air with a ball needle because their quarterback likes a smaller football so he can grip it better, it would be great if someone would be able to check the air in the game balls as the game goes on so that they don‟t get an illegal advantage."

Jackson has gone on record to state that he had no idea if the ball was underinflated or not. He handed the ball to an equipment guy because he wanted it as a trophy (I think it may have been his first interception?) not because he had concerns over the ball.

If that is indeed true, then would there be any other way for the officials to catch them in the act? Why does this even matter?

[Skyforger]

If that is indeed true, then would there be any other way for the officials to catch them in the act? Why does this even matter?

It depends if your intention is to prevent cheating or catch people cheating.

If the former you warn the Pats you have concerns and check the balls before kick off and at random times during the game.

If the latter then you do what they did.

Former is better for the games reputation, better for the NFL, better for the Pats and indeed better for the Colts. That's why it matters to me as a fan of the game, not just New England.

[GSC]

The officials check pre game was the prevention no?

[skins4ever]

Agree with Skyforger. This is about the leagues integrity. If you are not seen to be trying to address cheating, you are weak. But in this instance it is the case that's weak. They could have come out and said "We can't prove beyond doubt that any one individual behaved in a manner so as to break the rules, but we know that rules were broken by somebody. Therefore we are fining the Pats organisation and will be monitoring this more closely in future." Sets out the ground rules, sets out the punishment and doesn't really give the Pats grounds to appeal (after all everyone knows they cheated, just not exactly who knew anything in detail). But what happened was Goodell getting on his high horse again and going in ham fisted. He's left this wide open for a successful appeal. Maybe that was even his intention?

It's about time he walked off into the sunset before the NFL becomes a laughing stock. He's mismanaged so much lately, more harm than good. Get in a commissioner who wants the sport to improve, not just the business.

[skins4ever]

The officials check pre game was the prevention no?

Officials pre check long before the game then hand over each teams allocated balls. The equipment managers then prep them, particularly to the QB's & K's preferences. It prevents any argument the balls were substandard before the game, but does not prevent tampering.

If the teams are not careful, the NFL will just rule there is no pre-game ball prep in future and hand them over at kickoff. Then there will be more fumbles, mis-throws etc. Not the best scenario.

[Breadvan]

Haven't the NFL let QBs 'doctor' balls for their own advantage for a few years now? Brushing, heating, and over inflating them?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Haven't the NFL let QBs 'doctor' balls for their own advantage for a few years now? Brushing, heating, and over inflating them?

Yep ever since 2006

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