The Rocky Franchise

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Just watching Rocky III on 5 USA.

So many great lines in the film although it turned the series into a much more unrealistic type of sports film (the first two being at least grounded in some reality).

But which is your favourite of the films?

And tell me why!

He knows haz. He's just not letting on. When you're In the know on as many conspiracies as onethree.... Well let's say keeping schtum is keeping alive.

You just need the right region for your DVD. Region 1: N. America, region 2: Europe, region 3: south east Asia, region 4: random other places, region x: 'mwahhhhaaaahhhaaaaahhaaaa its mine all mine desert island'

Surprised to see Rocky 2 doing so well................Out of all of them I'd watch that last.....

Too much boring "life" crap between the action.............As one poster alluded to at least Rocky 5 is unwittingly humorous......Especially Morrison's acting.

Rocky 1
Rocky 3
Rocky Balboa
Rocky 4
Rocky 2/5...............

As for the poster who said the ending was too far fetched in Rocky 2.............

The IBF cruiserweight fight with Lee Roy Murphy vs Chisanda Mutti.........Finished exactly the same way..Both threw punches, both went down...

Murphy got up before Ten !!.Mutti was counted out.........

Murphy then lost to Parkey..........Who lost his belt to Holy.............

Very true, Truss. For me it actually edges out the much more acclaimed and famous Holyfield-Qawi I to the title of the greatest fight in the history of the Cruiserweight division.

Bobby Gunn against Enzo Maccarinelli taking the bronze medal, obviously.

88Chris05 wrote:Very true, Truss. For me it actually edges out the much more acclaimed and famous Holyfield-Qawi I to the title of the greatest fight in the history of the Cruiserweight division.

Bobby Gunn against Enzo Maccarinelli taking the bronze medal, obviously.

Saw Lee Roy Murphy take a dreadful caking off Qawi later on in Paris......Think it was on the undercard of the awful Holy-Ocasio fight.. (How anybody paid to watch Ocasio I'll never know !!)

Qawi was a merciless b**tard..........One guy I wouldn't have wanted to fight....

Qawi was a bit unhinged, that's for sure. The way he went about fighting Foreman came across as nigh-on suicidal, but he was one nasty, tough S.O.B. Good job for Foreman that Qawi was, at that point, a podgy guy with jiggly bits well on his way out fighting a bloke who dwarfed him. Foreman was long in the tooth as well, of course, in that second career of his, but he was down to 235 lb and in pretty good shape for the Qawi fight (the lighest he ever was in his comeback) and with those size / power advantages, as well as the fact that Qawi was literally throwing himself at George, I think it's pretty amazing how much success Dwight had and how clueless he made Foreman look. I actually thought Qawi was still slightly ahead when he gave up the ghost, albeit with Qawi so tired Foreman would have got him out of there in the next couple of rounds or so.

Can you imagine what Tyson would have done to Foreman at that stage if he'd fought against Mike like he did against Qawi?

The first Rocky is a classic movie, a great film by all standards. The rest are boxing movies of varying degrees in quality.

88Chris05 wrote:Qawi was a bit unhinged, that's for sure. The way he went about fighting Foreman came across as nigh-on suicidal, but he was one nasty, tough S.O.B. Good job for Foreman that Qawi was, at that point, a podgy guy with jiggly bits well on his way out fighting a bloke who dwarfed him. Foreman was long in the tooth as well, of course, in that second career of his, but he was down to 235 lb and in pretty good shape for the Qawi fight (the lighest he ever was in his comeback) and with those size / power advantages, as well as the fact that Qawi was literally throwing himself at George, I think it's pretty amazing how much success Dwight had and how clueless he made Foreman look. I actually thought Qawi was still slightly ahead when he gave up the ghost, albeit with Qawi so tired Foreman would have got him out of there in the next couple of rounds or so.

Can you imagine what Tyson would have done to Foreman at that stage if he'd fought against Mike like he did against Qawi?

Suppose the other questions is, would Tyson have been so willing to fight like Qawi did against Foreman? Being a keen student of the game, Tyson would have respected what young Foreman had done and suspect we may have seen one of his more measured performances had he fought old Foreman.

superflyweight wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:Qawi was a bit unhinged, that's for sure. The way he went about fighting Foreman came across as nigh-on suicidal, but he was one nasty, tough S.O.B. Good job for Foreman that Qawi was, at that point, a podgy guy with jiggly bits well on his way out fighting a bloke who dwarfed him. Foreman was long in the tooth as well, of course, in that second career of his, but he was down to 235 lb and in pretty good shape for the Qawi fight (the lighest he ever was in his comeback) and with those size / power advantages, as well as the fact that Qawi was literally throwing himself at George, I think it's pretty amazing how much success Dwight had and how clueless he made Foreman look. I actually thought Qawi was still slightly ahead when he gave up the ghost, albeit with Qawi so tired Foreman would have got him out of there in the next couple of rounds or so.

Can you imagine what Tyson would have done to Foreman at that stage if he'd fought against Mike like he did against Qawi?

Suppose the other questions is, would Tyson have been so willing to fight like Qawi did against Foreman?  Being a keen student of the game, Tyson would have respected what young Foreman had done and suspect we may have seen one of his more measured performances had he fought old Foreman.  

Shame he bottled it then

Well yeah, there is that as well, Shah!

Superfly's right that I probably should have weighed up this legendary, suggested pathological fear of Foreman that Tyson had, a seed planted in to his head by D'Amato. I guess there's a chance that Tyson might have chosen to box a more controlled fight, ala his Tucker and Biggs performances, both of which demonstrated that he had better boxing skills than some might be willing to admit - certainly enough to pitch a shutout (if George went the distance) against the lumbering Foreman of the late eighties.

You could question whether or not Tyson would have sought to brutalize Foreman, I guess my point was simply that if he had of chosen to fight him that way after freeing himself of whatever mental shackles Foreman's image might have held him in, Foreman at that point may well have got whipped so badly that he never got back in a ring. George performed very admirably against Holyfield, but even against Evander he was arguably saved by the bell twice after being badly hurt. An unforgiving Tyson using that seed of doubt to fire him up would have shone against Big George at that stage, I reckon.

88Chris05 wrote:Well yeah, there is that as well, Shah!

Superfly's right that I probably should have weighed up this legendary, suggested pathological fear of Foreman that Tyson had, a seed planted in to his head by D'Amato. I guess there's a chance that Tyson might have chosen to box a more controlled fight, ala his Tucker and Biggs performances, both of which demonstrated that he had better boxing skills than some might be willing to admit - certainly enough to pitch a shutout (if George went the distance) against the lumbering Foreman of the late eighties.

You could question whether or not Tyson would have sought to brutalize Foreman, I guess my point was simply that if he had of chosen to fight him that way after freeing himself of whatever mental shackles Foreman's image might have held him in, Foreman at that point may well have got whipped so badly that he never got back in a ring. George performed very admirably against Holyfield, but even against Evander he was arguably saved by the bell twice after being badly hurt. An unforgiving Tyson using that seed of doubt to fire him up would have shone against Big George at that stage, I reckon.

Me too actually once you take out my fondness for the lunacy that is george foreman, I imagine Tyson hurting him badly. Though if he plays a controlled game I'd give George a fairer shot to beat him.

Not sure that the 90s George was much diffeent to the 70s.........

Both powerhouses that lacked nouse.......

The 90s George though had more heart...........The 70s a bit more speed.....

A 1986 Tyson that had good defensive skills and lightning speed makes 90s George suffer.........The Tyson that fought 1990 onwards you'd have to give George a chance..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

As for the poster who said the ending was too far fetched in Rocky 2.............

The IBF cruiserweight fight with Lee Roy Murphy vs Chisanda Mutti.........Finished exactly the same way..Both threw punches, both went down...

Murphy got up before Ten !!.Mutti was counted out.........

Murphy then lost to Parkey..........Who lost his belt to Holy.............

The absurdity of the ending in Rocky 2 is not that both men are being counted out simultaneously but rather that the double count out scenario occurs after rocky knocks apollo down and then crashes to the floor himself....apollo does not land a punch on him.

common sense would suggest that for a fighter to counted out as a result of a knock out, as detailed in the example you have given above, the opponent would have to deliver the decisive blow.

88Chris05 wrote:Well yeah, there is that as well, Shah!

Superfly's right that I probably should have weighed up this legendary, suggested pathological fear of Foreman that Tyson had, a seed planted in to his head by D'Amato. I guess there's a chance that Tyson might have chosen to box a more controlled fight, ala his Tucker and Biggs performances, both of which demonstrated that he had better boxing skills than some might be willing to admit - certainly enough to pitch a shutout (if George went the distance) against the lumbering Foreman of the late eighties.

You could question whether or not Tyson would have sought to brutalize Foreman, I guess my point was simply that if he had of chosen to fight him that way after freeing himself of whatever mental shackles Foreman's image might have held him in, Foreman at that point may well have got whipped so badly that he never got back in a ring. George performed very admirably against Holyfield, but even against Evander he was arguably saved by the bell twice after being badly hurt. An unforgiving Tyson using that seed of doubt to fire him up would have shone against Big George at that stage, I reckon.

I too am not convinced that Tyson had a fear of Foreman, and even less that it was a seed planted by D'Amatory, who was already dead when Foreman started his come back.
The idea that Tyson bottled a fight also seems far fetched, certainly there was zero clam our for it at the time, when most observers though Tyson would slaughter him

Think Shah might have been a wee bit on the joking side when he used that 'bottled it' term, Horizontal!

I think the D'Amato theory comes from conversations he and Tyson had when Tyson was a youngster under his wing, studying tapes of past champions as they did. Obviously at that point nobody had any clue that Foreman would ever be coming back to boxing and it's unlikely that D'Amato would have told Tyson the same things about Foreman (namely that no pressure / swarmer fighter or short puncher could ever beat him) if he'd thought that there'd ever be a possibility of them sharing a ring. Obviously a lot of that comes from the demolition jobs Foreman did on Frazier, too.

Bit of a wives tale, but I guess it gets given extra consideration because of the 'bully' tag often attached to Tyson, and the belief that he was always mentally fragile if he couldn't have it all his own way. As such, the biggest Tyson critics (you know the kind) like to claim that Tyson was petrified of even the old, fat Foreman, who'd have taken his heart eventually in the late eighties.....And who, of course, would have squashed him like a grape inside two rounds if he'd been in his early - mid seventies pomp. I certainly don't agree with the former, and find the latter pretty debatable as well - but there always tend to be extremes when Tyson is debated.

I think Tyson would have struggled with comeback George.

I don't see Tyson koing George but winning on points. At that time with Tyson's importance to boxing he would have got the nod.

Hear what you are saying Chris, but I always found the Tyson - Frazier a bit of a lazy comparison , and no doubt D'Amato would have done. Frazier's notoriosly slow start was the opposite of Tyson, Joe was a pure in fighting pressure fighter, Mike was best a mid range, there is little to suggest that he doesn't roll under George's swings and nail him.

Agree that Tyson and Frazier are relatively similar without being carbon copies. I think, as you've alluded to, it's a bit of a myth that Tyson was a brilliant inside fighter. He was capable in that area, but even the likes of Thomas, Ruddock and Smith were able to subdue him there and push him back in the clinches. He didn't necessarily have to get right inside on his man, whereas Frazier needed to a little more.

Frazier was the better fighter in close, Tyson had the superior outside game and counter punching ability and as such is better equipped to beat Foreman, albeit Tyson's inclinations still tended to be overwhelmingly aggressive ones and that, coupled with a defense which I'd consider overrated, mean that peak for peak I'd still edge towards George.

I edge toward Tyson on the basis that a. He was faster and b. Technically better, so I would back him to find George's chin first, that said if George takes the punches , then Tyson would find himself in a world of trouble once the first two or three rounds were over. Hugely entertaining match up though.