Adam Jones on propping today: "technique has gone out of the window a bit"

First topic message reminder :

Adam Jones is a very likeable player, who usually gives very honest interviews. The Telegraph has one today where he says a few words about how the scrum changes have affected him:

“If you look at the props who have played over the past 10 years, they are in a similar boat – people like [Martin] Castrogiovanni, [Carl] Hayman, [Nicolas] Mas – none of those guys have been as dominant as they have been over the past decade or so,” he said. “It is a different way of doing things that we are getting used to.

“There’s never consistency. I have never played a game where referees have wanted the same thing every week. A technically good prop now is not as important as a really strong prop. If someone is really good in the gym then they might get away with not being technically great. Technique has gone out of the window a bit, which I feel is a shame.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/wales/11356049/Wales-Adam-Jones-desperate-for-another-chance-after-day-of-humiliation.html

I have no idea whether he can be a force again in international rugby but there can't be many who would begrudge him finding some form again.

Well nobody seemed to moan about the scrums twenty years ago, and people were not saying it was like rugby league back then either, for me the scrum needs to simplified not made mor complicated.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Having been a prop for a number of years I would like to say how wrong Adam Jones is.

Technical scrummagers now have the advantage whereas those with brute power from the hit specifically are now at a disadvantage.

The binding now forces props to jostle for leverage in a fairer way rather than relying on a massive hit generated from the Locks as much as the front row.

Strength is a factor but I would say less so now. I'll use a Scottish example here to illustrate my point. Guys like Ali Dickinson (never renowned as a powerful scrummager) has in recent times gotten the better of the likes of Euan Murray who was/is a bit of a monster of a man.

x2 the lack of a hit favours shorter smaller props who can get underneath their oponent, which was a technique i was taught growing up..

It is also why Samson Lee is performing so well at the moment

Bad week for Adam, now he can't drive to training Gats has binned him. Fact is Samson is first choice and Adam can't compete on that front. Props are rarely impact players and Gats point is that bring on Jones does not exploit a tired opposition….it is time for young blood and it is a shame that his demise was so public and humiliating. I have no doubt he will get another game at some point when Lee is injured and he is at the end of the phone if needed

Gwlad wrote:Bad week for Adam, now he can't drive to training Gats has binned him. Fact is Samson is first choice and Adam can't compete on that front. Props are rarely impact players and Gats point is that bring on Jones does not exploit a tired opposition….it is time for young blood and it is a shame that his demise was so public and humiliating. I have no doubt he will get another game at some point when Lee is injured and he is at the end of the phone if needed

It might have been a bad week for Adam, yet it proved to be a good day today, with him being a good impact prop, and the total dismantling of Jarvis, proving yet again he is nowhere near a decent Regional level tighthead, never mind International class and Andrews nowhere to be seen.
I'd also like to add well done to both the Dragons and the Blues for continuing the European experience.

Not like you to give a critical yet honest review of an Osprey Wayne. Signing Leonard and James is certainly a step in the right direction though. Back to your original point, just begs the question what the HELL are Jarvis and Andrews doing anywhere near the Welsh squad. Give me a past-it Adam Jones ahead of them both any day.

He has just retired from international rugby. Shocked. Terrible treatment by Gatland.

Not knowing the ins and outs pf his personal life, but I would guess that this is a bit of a knee jerk reaction. I think he could have done a James Hook and announce that he'll always be up for selection regardless. What's a player got to lose in being available? Now he's got no chance.

The Saint wrote:Not like you to give a critical yet honest review of an Osprey Wayne. Signing Leonard and James is certainly a step in the right direction though. Back to your original point, just begs the question what the HELL are Jarvis and Andrews doing anywhere near the Welsh squad. Give me a past-it Adam Jones ahead of them both any day.

I'll give your initial point the contempt it deserves, a few weeks ago you put a comment on here how biased certain supporters are towards their own teams and said that the Scarlets were the worst and we were second, you really need to have a good long and hard look at what you post on here and actually read what I have to say.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/30961855

Very surprised and a little sad. Not sure how he would stand if those ahead of him got injured and his country needed him again. He''s always struck me as some one who would step up if asked, so maybe he just wants to do something on his own terms now.

Griff wrote:Not knowing the ins and outs pf his personal life, but I would guess that this is a bit of a knee jerk reaction. I think he could have done a James Hook and announce that he'll always be up for selection regardless. What's a player got to lose in being available? Now he's got no chance.

Saying what I've said, I would also say that Adam Jones has only been in the wales team for his scrummaging. Nothing else. As soon as someone came along that can offer the same and perhaps another dimension then he was always going to get moved along. It just took a long time. Fantastic servant. Genuinely world class scrummager at his peak and when the rules suited (how crazy is rugby and its rule changes?'!) but now he's just not effective at international level. He doesn't carry. He doesn't 'forage'. I've not noticed him clearing out much. He's slow covering back. So I guess he's a luxury at best (when scrummaging well) and a liability now when ineffective in the scrum. But a sad end to his career...

Mmmm, i think he was retired by Gats anyway so this is almost irrelevant…fact is if Gats calls he will answer.

So why announce retirement? Why not just concentrate on club rugby and hope for a recall? Ego perhaps???

Griff wrote:So why announce retirement? Why not just concentrate on club rugby and hope for a recall? Ego perhaps???

Adam has always struck me as a heart player and frankly i think he is sending a message to Gatland that he is peed off that having done what was asked he has been left out…..he just lost his license too so perhaps its a bit of a knee jerk. Fact is he was invaluable until the scrum changed….his time is over and the method of his leaving is sad - i think he is hugely popular guy in the squad. Just goes to show that with Gatland, like BOD, there are no sacred cows or tight head props (except Sam and Gethin)

Risca Rev wrote:He has just retired from international rugby. Shocked. Terrible treatment by Gatland.

Great, if Lee gets injured we are fudged. History repeating itself.

wayne wrote:

The Saint wrote:Not like you to give a critical yet honest review of an Osprey Wayne. Signing Leonard and James is certainly a step in the right direction though. Back to your original point, just begs the question what the HELL are Jarvis and Andrews doing anywhere near the Welsh squad. Give me a past-it Adam Jones ahead of them both any day.

I'll give your initial point the contempt it deserves, a few weeks ago you put a comment on here how biased certain supporters are towards their own teams and said that the Scarlets were the worst and we were second, you really need to have a good long and hard look at what you post on here and actually read what I have to say.

Nah I think Ospreys fans have reclaimed the title this weekend. Some of the responses I've seen after the Treviso loss are absolutely hilarious to say the least.

The Saint wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:He has just retired from international rugby. Shocked. Terrible treatment by Gatland.

Great, if Lee gets injured we are fudged. History repeating itself.

You think Adam is going to say No to Gats if he gets the call?

I don't

Gwlad wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:He has just retired from international rugby. Shocked. Terrible treatment by Gatland.

Great, if Lee gets injured we are fudged. History repeating itself.

You think Adam is going to say No to Gats if he gets the call?

I don't

I'm not sure. Just because Martyn Williams came out of retirement there's no need to assume Jones will, especially when he's clearly 2nd fiddle.

Let's just hope that Jones isn't in Japan when the Lions are in New Zealand and makes a farce of calling him into the squad like he did with Shane Who.

Steve_rugby wrote:Let's just hope that Jones isn't in Japan when the Lions are in New Zealand and makes a farce of calling him into the squad like he did with Shane Who.

....and then the idiot's join in.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Steve_rugby wrote:Let's just hope that Jones isn't in Japan when the Lions are in New Zealand and makes a farce of calling him into the squad like he did with Shane Who.

....and then the idiot's join in.

Takes one to know one.

Attack the post, not the poster.

The Saint wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:He has just retired from international rugby. Shocked. Terrible treatment by Gatland.

Great, if Lee gets injured we are fudged. History repeating itself.

You are fudged anyway at least against England. If your bench is not up to the job of starting then what will happen when after fifty minutes England bring on a replacement front row of Cole, Youngs and Corbs or Mako V, Hartley and Wilson?

Exiledinborders wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:He has just retired from international rugby. Shocked. Terrible treatment by Gatland.

Great, if Lee gets injured we are fudged. History repeating itself.

You are fudged anyway at least against England.  If your bench is not up to the job of starting then what will happen when after fifty minutes England bring on a replacement front row of Cole, Youngs and Corbs or Mako V, Hartley and Wilson?  

Beat them at the breakdown and in the backs hopefully. I'd say concern is best reserved for your own team though .

If the scrum was reffed properly, technique would become more important again.

Graham Price played a long time ago but his comment last year is relevant. The rugby laws say props must do things in a certain way but sometimes the laws of physics make it impossible to win a scrum by doing so. And as the laws of physics can't be broken, props sometimes break the laws of rugby. He didn't say so, but clearly the trick is to get away with in front of the ref!

Exiledinborders wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:He has just retired from international rugby. Shocked. Terrible treatment by Gatland.

Great, if Lee gets injured we are fudged. History repeating itself.

You are fudged anyway at least against England.  If your bench is not up to the job of starting then what will happen when after fifty minutes England bring on a replacement front row of Cole, Youngs and Corbs or Mako V, Hartley and Wilson?  

Wales just beat SA without making a change…don't think England - who frankly don't have that much of a clue as to who will start/bench and not be injured - will worry them. Obviously though England will target the set piece, i think ti's their only hope.

VinceWLB wrote:If the scrum was reffed properly, technique would become more important again.

I agree with that however things were worse a couple of years ago when it was all about 'the hit' with no attempt to hook at all. Funnily enough that was Jones' golden period so I am not sure his comments make much sense.

The Wales scrum problems against England would indicate that Adam's retirement has fecked Gatland's plans quite substantially. There's no substitute for experience, especially against bigger SANZAR units.

Gat's comments show pretty clearly that he was genuinely shocked he doesn't have him as RWC squad member. Adam's a considered and smart guy though and knows all of this. Really would be very bad if he honestly retired due to poor treatment. But why shouldn't he? He doesn't have to prove anything any more.

I agree George. Adam Jones has had a terrific career. In hindsight, it is not surprising that the change in the scrum laws requires somewhat different technique than previously. For him, and I suppose a number of older top level props, it can be difficult to adjust. And after a long career, with what seems like a million tough miles on his tyres, maybe he feels it is not worth the effort.

Keeping up fitness has often been an issue for Adam Jones too. Being without a club for a while cannot have helped.