Rugby attendances in Wales - a reasonable debate

by LordDowlais Tue 20 Jan 2015, 12:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ok, after reading the Ospreys V Northampton match thread, I think a few things need to be explained, I am fed up of hearing that rugby is being killed by Cardiff and Swansea football clubs, these thoughts are usually from ill educated masses who now nothing of the culture that rugby has in Wales, they just see full stadiums for the only TWO professional football clubs in Wales and make their own minds up, and this is the fact that we need to get across.

Firstly, yes Cardiff F.C and Swansea F.C do have massive following's in and around their areas, but what people really need to think about is this, Swansea are west Wales and Cardiff are east Wales, in these two parts of Wales, they compete with nobody, they are the two stand alone entities that people from as far west as Pembroke dock, and as far east as Monmouth go to watch these two clubs. They compete with no one in the Welsh world of football, the only competition they have, is from Liverpool, Manchester, Arsenal and even those fans will go and watch the two Welsh clubs more often than not.

Now, secondly, if we divide the east and west if Wales up, you get FOUR professional rugby teams, people from Cardiff and the surrounding areas will support Blues, people from Gwent will support Dragons, then people from Swansea and the surrounding areas will support Ospreys and people from Llanelli and further west will support Scarlets. Add the support up for both regions in each of the east and the west and you will not be far off what the football teams in the same areas have.

Right, thirdly and this is a very important thirdly. In each and every town, village and city you will find one or two rugby clubs, for instance the Welsh premiership has a dozen clubs each getting on times up to a thousand spectators watching every week, then in the same towns you will get smaller clubs who will have a few hundred there watching week in week out, not to mention all the lower leagues, in my town alone there are about six rugby clubs, all of them get decent support. Our regions have to compete with the myriad of rugby clubs from within they're own regions, the football clubs do not have to compete with this sort of support.

The point I am trying to make with people is, that there is more than likely too much rugby in Wales to go around with the population of the country, I know of people who have family playing locally, they will go and watch their son, husband, farther play and not only that, they will help with the running of the club, they will make food in the clubhouse afterwards, they will organise events, now with so many people doing these things on a Saturday afternoon, how can they then be expected to spend more money and time on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday evening to go and watch their regions as well, especially when they are on the tele, and that is another thing, the rugby on BBC 2 Wales and S4C get massive viewing figures in Wales, and after listening to Roger Lewis, because of this, the money they get from the tele is the equivalent to getting an extra ten thousand people through the gates for each game.

Lastly, if we look at things rationally, when the national teams of both football and rugby have a game and all the fans go to watch and support, when the Welsh national football side has a match, you do not get the interest that the Welsh rugby team gets, this shows what happens when ALL the supporters of each sport get together for that one game, rugby will generate 70,000 people in a stadium and hundreds of thousands who will congregate into their local pubs and clubs, and fill their town centres or go down to the capital just for the atmosphere, the Welsh national football side just does not generate this kind of support, that is because, every fan of every rugby club in Wales equates to more people than every fan of every football club, so to summarise, rugby is as strong as it ever has been in Wales, there is just too much of it to go around.

by LordDowlais Fri 23 Jan 2015, 8:53 pm

Griff wrote:Dowlais, I'm tired of you too. It saddens me to announce that you are now the first person I have ever had to put on 'ignore'.

Carry on.

by LordDowlais Fri 23 Jan 2015, 8:54 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Just as an aside, but where does 312 clubs come from?

The internet. thumbsup

by LordDowlais Fri 23 Jan 2015, 8:57 pm

Look people, when have the regions ever had attendances like the Irish provinces ? Never, that's when, I am not arguing the fact that they could improve to the times when Ospreys were moderately successful, they could, and I have stated earlier that I can see a wind of change with this new peace we have, but to think they will be the same as the Irish provinces is just wishful thinking, there is too much rugby in wales and wether you choice to accept that or not, that is your own choice.

by Cardiff Dave Fri 23 Jan 2015, 8:59 pm

The Swansea based football team called Swansea seem to be doing ok, so would it be better if the Os were rebranded as Swansea?

by **LondonTiger** Fri 23 Jan 2015, 9:07 pm

I just could not find anywhere near that many clubs affiliated to the WRU.

Also what you are suggesting is that the regions can never be self-sustaining. that will cause a problem, if as we asaw this Autumn and Wales cannot sell out the MS for anyone other than the ABs

by LordDowlais Fri 23 Jan 2015, 9:16 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I just could not find anywhere near that many clubs affiliated to the WRU.

Also what you are suggesting is that the regions can never be self-sustaining. that will cause a problem, if as we asaw this Autumn and Wales cannot sell out the MS for anyone other than the ABs

Try wiki, they are all on there

Also, that is the trouble, the regions are not self sustaining, when Ospreys had their galacticos Cuddy and Blyth were ploughing they're own money in to sustain them. Also, I think Cardiff Blues owe Pie Man a few million.

by Guest Fri 23 Jan 2015, 9:20 pm

It's sad that somebody allegedly seeks debate, but only if the debate agrees with his view. I'm confused as to what debate means now.

by wayne Fri 23 Jan 2015, 9:33 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I just could not find anywhere near that many clubs affiliated to the WRU.

Also what you are suggesting is that the regions can never be self-sustaining. that will cause a problem, if as we asaw this Autumn and Wales cannot sell out the MS for anyone other than the ABs

Try wiki, they are all on there

Also, that is the trouble, the regions are not self sustaining, when Ospreys had their galacticos Cuddy and Blyth were ploughing they're own money in to sustain them. Also, I think Cardiff Blues owe Pie Man a few million.

Lord, this is why you are so wrong on this subject, Cuddy and Blyth have NEVER EVER been the money men behind the Ospreys, they were the day to day Managing Directors of the Ospreys, the money men were a company called Llandarcy Holdings who the main shareholder is Robert Davies who is also a major shareholder of Swansea City F.C. Cuddy has put money in with advertising for his own company but that is about it. You really should do your research.

by The Saint Fri 23 Jan 2015, 9:36 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:So anyway, I am not arguing where the Cardiff Blues region covers, what I can conclude by this debate is, according to Wayne, Saint, Griff and Cardiff Dave, is that there are more people watching and involved with the four regions than there are watching and involved with the other 312 clubs in wales. Ok each to their own.

Aah go on. Horse and cart from Llandrindod Wells?

That's how they would have to travel from there ain't it ?

Nah that's how they get around in Merthyr and Merthyr only. I'm so lucky to live in civilisation a few miles down the M4.

by LordDowlais Fri 23 Jan 2015, 9:36 pm

Risca Rev wrote:It's sad that somebody allegedly seeks debate, but only if the debate agrees with his view. I'm confused as to what debate means now.

What are you talking about ? Do you ever see Newport Gwent Dragons ever getting twenty thousand fans on a regular basis ? I have enjoyed this debate, I accept what people have said about success bringing in more fans, on the flip side nobody reckons that there is too much rugby, but like I have said earlier, that is their choice, I have been ridiculed, and called stupid on this debate, not once have I started abusing people, I have only been confrontational in response to being called stupid, or an idiot. Should I have agreed with you and the others, without my opinion ? Because that is not a debate.

by LordDowlais Fri 23 Jan 2015, 9:38 pm

The Saint wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:So anyway, I am not arguing where the Cardiff Blues region covers, what I can conclude by this debate is, according to Wayne, Saint, Griff and Cardiff Dave, is that there are more people watching and involved with the four regions than there are watching and involved with the other 312 clubs in wales. Ok each to their own.

Aah go on. Horse and cart from Llandrindod Wells?

That's how they would have to travel from there ain't it ?

Nah that's how they get around in Merthyr and Merthyr only. I'm so lucky to live in civilisation a few miles down the M4.

I have a very nice horse and cart thank you very much. laughing

Some say its the best in town. kiss

by The Saint Fri 23 Jan 2015, 9:38 pm

Risca Rev wrote:It's sad that somebody allegedly seeks debate, but only if the debate agrees with his view. I'm confused as to what debate means now.

How much rugby is too much?

by LordDowlais Fri 23 Jan 2015, 9:51 pm

The Saint wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:It's sad that somebody allegedly seeks debate, but only if the debate agrees with his view. I'm confused as to what debate means now.

How much rugby is too much?

For us die hard fans, there is never too much rugby, but when you look at things logically, if Wales had half the amount of rugby clubs, you would have a lot of spare fans to go and watch the regions, it's sad that the fans on here only seem to be regional fans, if they went and had a look at what goes on at lower levels, they would see how much hard work goes on.

Saint, you are a Dragons fan, do you ever watch any lower level rugby ?

by LordDowlais Fri 23 Jan 2015, 10:05 pm

wayne wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I just could not find anywhere near that many clubs affiliated to the WRU.

Also what you are suggesting is that the regions can never be self-sustaining. that will cause a problem, if as we asaw this Autumn and Wales cannot sell out the MS for anyone other than the ABs

Try wiki, they are all on there

Also, that is the trouble, the regions are not self sustaining, when Ospreys had their galacticos Cuddy and Blyth were ploughing they're own money in to sustain them. Also, I think Cardiff Blues owe Pie Man a few million.
Lord, this is why you are so wrong on this subject, Cuddy and Blyth have NEVER EVER been the money men behind the Ospreys, they were the day to day Managing Directors of the Ospreys, the money men were a company called Llandarcy Holdings who the main shareholder is Robert Davies who is also a major shareholder of Swansea City F.C. Cuddy has put money in with advertising for his own company but that is about it. You really should do your research.

Well who ever owned the money, it was not money generated by Ospreys. The regions have never been sustainable, that is the sad truth, and that is why they need the support of the WRU, perhaps if the regions were allowed more control in there duties then they would not need to rely on fans alone, things like the time when they wanted to play Samoa, there are other ways of making more income.

by wayne Fri 23 Jan 2015, 10:20 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
wayne wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I just could not find anywhere near that many clubs affiliated to the WRU.

Also what you are suggesting is that the regions can never be self-sustaining. that will cause a problem, if as we asaw this Autumn and Wales cannot sell out the MS for anyone other than the ABs

Try wiki, they are all on there

Also, that is the trouble, the regions are not self sustaining, when Ospreys had their galacticos Cuddy and Blyth were ploughing they're own money in to sustain them. Also, I think Cardiff Blues owe Pie Man a few million.
Lord, this is why you are so wrong on this subject, Cuddy and Blyth have NEVER EVER been the money men behind the Ospreys, they were the day to day Managing Directors of the Ospreys, the money men were a company called Llandarcy Holdings who the main shareholder is Robert Davies who is also a major shareholder of Swansea City F.C. Cuddy has put money in with advertising for his own company but that is about it. You really should do your research.

Well who ever owned the money, it was not money generated by Ospreys. The regions have never been sustainable, that is the sad truth, and that is why they need the support of the WRU, perhaps if the regions were allowed more control in there duties then they would not need to rely on fans alone, things like the time when they wanted to play Samoa, there are other ways of making more income.

Somebody earlier told you to stop digging, you really should, first of all it was Tonga not Samoa, pray tell me what support have we needed from the WRU, finally have you any idea what percentage of income is generated by the fans for any of the Regions, and by fans I mean through the gate.

by Cardiff Dave Fri 23 Jan 2015, 10:23 pm

Still digging LD?
Have you reached Bondi beach yet?

by LordDowlais Fri 23 Jan 2015, 10:23 pm

Not enough Wayne, that's how much.

by LordDowlais Fri 23 Jan 2015, 10:27 pm

Anyway, why are we arguing about this now ? First CD tried to get me into an argument about how far the Blues region covered, Griff was trying to argue with me about success on the field, now this, gate receipts, why are we changing the debate ? I still stick by what I am saying, we will never get twenty thousand fans watching the regions on a regular basis, there are too many other rugby clubs in Wales, now wether you want to agree with me on this or not, that's your choice, it does not make me stupid or an idiot for thinking this.

by wayne Fri 23 Jan 2015, 10:28 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Not enough Wayne, that's how much.

Come On, really have a guess? You know you want to. And answer the other.

by wayne Fri 23 Jan 2015, 10:35 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Anyway, why are we arguing about this now ? First CD tried to get me into an argument about how far the Blues region covered, Griff was trying to argue with me about success on the field, now this, gate receipts, why are we changing the debate ? I still stick by what I am saying, we will never get twenty thousand fans watching the regions on a regular basis, there are too many other rugby clubs in Wales, now wether you want to agree with me on this or not, that's your choice, it does not make me stupid or an idiot for thinking this.

You mentioned the fans, and how do fans make a difference by coming through the gate, well just to answer your last statement, what team playing in the Northern Hemisphere get twenty thousand watching them on a regular basis, I would not be very far out and say NONE

by LordDowlais Fri 23 Jan 2015, 10:44 pm

wayne wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Anyway, why are we arguing about this now ? First CD tried to get me into an argument about how far the Blues region covered, Griff was trying to argue with me about success on the field, now this, gate receipts, why are we changing the debate ? I still stick by what I am saying, we will never get twenty thousand fans watching the regions on a regular basis, there are too many other rugby clubs in Wales, now wether you want to agree with me on this or not, that's your choice, it does not make me stupid or an idiot for thinking this.
You mentioned the fans, and how do fans make a difference by coming through the gate, well just to answer your last statement, what team playing in the Northern Hemisphere get twenty thousand watching them on a regular basis, I would not be very far out and say NONE

We'll everybody seems to want yo compare us with the Irish provinces, Leinster and Munster get close to that on a regular basis don't they ?

Wayne what do you want me to say ? Do you want me to tell you that all the Neath fans and all the Swansea fans and all the Aberavon fans and all the Bridgend fans will all of a sudden flock to the Liberty Stadium as soon as Ospreys start winning every week and then win the CC ? It will not happen, these clubs need fans as well, what I will say and what I have been saying is, the regions need to target the fans who are not supporting anybody yet, fans with no attachment to any clubs. Why do I feel like I am the only person who sees this ?

by The Saint Fri 23 Jan 2015, 11:16 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Saint wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:It's sad that somebody allegedly seeks debate, but only if the debate agrees with his view. I'm confused as to what debate means now.

How much rugby is too much?

For us die hard fans, there is never too much rugby, but when you look at things logically, if Wales had half the amount of rugby clubs, you would have a lot of spare fans to go and watch the regions, it's sad that the fans on here only seem to be regional fans, if they went and had a look at what goes on at lower levels, they would see how much hard work goes on.

Saint, you are a Dragons fan, do you ever watch any lower level rugby ?

I only watch on the box these days, and that includes internationals. I never have the time, I have a fair amount of reviews, presentations and exams to get through. It all requires a lot of prep. I'm hardly even out on the beer these days. I used to go and watch Cross Keys as my cousin played for them, though that's over now as he is living far far away.. When I was playing, and injured, I would watch my former teams which I enjoyed a lot - Pill Harriers, and before that, Caerleon.

by Steve_rugby Sat 24 Jan 2015, 12:06 am

wayne wrote:You mentioned the fans, and how do fans make a difference by coming through the gate, well just to answer your last statement, what team playing in the Northern Hemisphere get twenty thousand watching them on a regular basis, I would not be very far out and say NONE

Well, you'd be wrong. Leicester get more than 20,000 watching them on a regular basis.

by Brendan Sat 24 Jan 2015, 12:30 am

LondonTiger wrote:Just as an aside, but where does 312 clubs come from?

does it matter. If it was ten he would still complain that they were stopping people watching the regions.

As the attendances of the prem show the people have moved to the regions and away from the prem.

Can anyone tell us Newcastles change in attendance from their high to now or Irish or wasps who were at one stage the best team in europe

by LordDowlais Sat 24 Jan 2015, 7:50 am

Steve_rugby wrote:
wayne wrote:You mentioned the fans, and how do fans make a difference by coming through the gate, well just to answer your last statement, what team playing in the Northern Hemisphere get twenty thousand watching them on a regular basis, I would not be very far out and say NONE

Well, you'd be wrong. Leicester get more than 20,000 watching them on a regular basis.

He also must not watch much French rugby either.

by LordDowlais Sat 24 Jan 2015, 7:55 am

Brendan wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Just as an aside, but where does 312 clubs come from?

does it matter. If it was ten he would still complain that they were stopping people watching the regions.

As the attendances of the prem show the people have moved to the regions and away from the prem.

Can anyone tell us Newcastles change in attendance from their high to now or Irish or wasps who were at one stage the best team in europe

It does matter though doesn't it, ten clubs needing fans is a lot different to 312 clubs needing fans, as pointed out earlier in this thread there are 77 clubs in Ospreys region alone, what do you think will happen ? Do you think all the fans of those 77 clubs will change their support and start going to watch Ospreys if they win the CC ? If they did what would happen to all those clubs ? The regions need to start targeting fair weather fans, people who do not have any affiliation with any club, only these fans will boost attendances at the regions.

by Brendan Sat 24 Jan 2015, 9:36 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Brendan wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Just as an aside, but where does 312 clubs come from?

does it matter. If it was ten he would still complain that they were stopping people watching the regions.

As the attendances of the prem show the people have moved to the regions and away from the prem.

Can anyone tell us Newcastles change in attendance from their high to now or Irish or wasps who were at one stage the best team in europe

It does matter though doesn't it, ten clubs needing fans is a lot different to 312 clubs needing fans, as pointed out earlier in this thread there are 77 clubs in Ospreys region alone, what do you think will happen ? Do you think all the fans of those 77 clubs will change their support and start going to watch Ospreys if they win the CC ? If they did what would happen to all those clubs ? The regions need to start targeting fair weather fans, people who do not have any affiliation with any club, only these fans will boost attendances at the regions.

Rugby in Ireland has grown with new clubs being formed. I am sure more knowledge posters will tell you so if anything more clubs should be better. Connacht have doubled (or more) the number of schools taking part in the connacht schools cup and growing it in tradtional only GAA areas. So if anything more the clubs grow the more people are likely to go see their rolemodels play. Each new school for Connacht is probably another 10 famillies thst may show up to a couple of games in the Season

by wayne Sat 24 Jan 2015, 10:30 am

Steve_rugby wrote:
wayne wrote:You mentioned the fans, and how do fans make a difference by coming through the gate, well just to answer your last statement, what team playing in the Northern Hemisphere get twenty thousand watching them on a regular basis, I would not be very far out and say NONE

Well, you'd be wrong. Leicester get more than 20,000 watching them on a regular basis.

Wow, so there is 1, what part of (I would not be very far out and say NONE) don't you understand.

by wayne Sat 24 Jan 2015, 10:35 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Steve_rugby wrote:
wayne wrote:You mentioned the fans, and how do fans make a difference by coming through the gate, well just to answer your last statement, what team playing in the Northern Hemisphere get twenty thousand watching them on a regular basis, I would not be very far out and say NONE

Well, you'd be wrong. Leicester get more than 20,000 watching them on a regular basis.

He also must not watch much French rugby either.

I don't know about you, but I don't live and breathe Rugby, the weekends that the Ospreys are not at home I support either my local team, or the team I used to play for, I don't sit at home watching wall to wall Rugby.

by **LondonTiger** Sat 24 Jan 2015, 10:40 am

20k is a silly target for the Regions.

at the very least though Cardiff and ~~Swansea~~ Ospreys should be able to make 10k and aiming for a 12-13k average.

As to any teams regularly pulling in 20k - as mentiond tigers do. In fact average AP attendance this season for us is >21k.

by wayne Sat 24 Jan 2015, 10:42 am

Lord, it has been shown to you, that the only way to improve attendances on a consistent basis is to achieve success, our own moderate success a few years ago shows this, Leinster and Munster also prove the point, we are going round in circles on this, so as I've better things to do with my life I'll leave you to it.

by wayne Sat 24 Jan 2015, 10:51 am

LondonTiger wrote:20k is a silly target for the Regions.

at the very least though Cardiff and ~~Swansea~~ Ospreys should be able to make 10k and aiming for a 12-13k average.

As to any teams regularly pulling in 20k - as mentiond tigers do. In fact average AP attendance this season for us is >21k.

LT, your first two lines are so right and for the kind of Rugby we in particular are playing we should be getting those crowds.
As for your third line I've already replied to it, and LD had already quoted the teams he was refering to was Leinster and Munster and for the vast majority of their games it is well under 20000. OK there are a few instances of over that figure, but nowhere is it anywhere near that figure on a regular basis.

by Cardiff Dave Sat 24 Jan 2015, 6:21 pm

LondonTiger wrote:20k is a silly target for the Regions.

at the very least though Cardiff and ~~Swansea~~ Ospreys should be able to make 10k and aiming for a 12-13k average.

As to any teams regularly pulling in 20k - as mentiond tigers do. In fact average AP attendance this season for us is >21k.

You should elaborate on that. Ticket prices etc. Will raise a few eyebrows amongst the Welshies on here, i'm shewer.
How many ST holders this year? 13,000-ish?

by Allty Sat 24 Jan 2015, 10:16 pm

One part of the debate was answerd on the field today.

O's losing to a team that hasnt won a game in the EC.

The Scarlets losing at home in front of......not that many.

Sadly the game is not doing very well in the valleys
.

by Cardiff Dave Sun 25 Jan 2015, 6:22 pm

Allty wrote:One part of the debate was answerd on the field today.

O's losing to a team that hasnt won a game in the EC.

The Scarlets losing at home in front of......not that many.

Sadly the game is not doing very well in the valleys
.

Both dead rubber ducks though Allty. Think green shoots btw.

by Allty Sun 25 Jan 2015, 8:05 pm

I appreciate that CD. I just think that yet another season with nothing to show will continue the supporter apathy.

by Cardiff Dave Sun 25 Jan 2015, 8:11 pm

Allty wrote:I appreciate that CD. I just think that yet another season with nothing to show will continue the supporter apathy.

Progress was made last year when Dodger got destroyed by the 4. I'm sure things will improve even more when he eventually naffs off for good.

by Allty Sun 25 Jan 2015, 9:02 pm

I dont think that poor attendance at our regions is to do with the management of the WRU CD.

by Cardiff Dave Sun 25 Jan 2015, 9:16 pm

Allty wrote:I dont think that poor attendance at our regions is to do with the management of the WRU CD.

Agreed.

by The Saint Sun 25 Jan 2015, 9:25 pm

wayne wrote:
Steve_rugby wrote:
wayne wrote:You mentioned the fans, and how do fans make a difference by coming through the gate, well just to answer your last statement, what team playing in the Northern Hemisphere get twenty thousand watching them on a regular basis, I would not be very far out and say NONE

Well, you'd be wrong. Leicester get more than 20,000 watching them on a regular basis.
Wow, so there is 1, what part of (I would not be very far out and say NONE) don't you understand.

I thought we were focusing on Welsh teams and comparing them to other Pro12 teams (in Ireland). Not so sure how Tigers or the French came into this - it would be an ill comparison too as it is not a level playing field. Still, whatever suits LDs rant I guess.

by wayne Sun 25 Jan 2015, 9:33 pm

The Saint wrote:
wayne wrote:
Steve_rugby wrote:
wayne wrote:You mentioned the fans, and how do fans make a difference by coming through the gate, well just to answer your last statement, what team playing in the Northern Hemisphere get twenty thousand watching them on a regular basis, I would not be very far out and say NONE

Well, you'd be wrong. Leicester get more than 20,000 watching them on a regular basis.
Wow, so there is 1, what part of (I would not be very far out and say NONE) don't you understand.

I thought we were focusing on Welsh teams and comparing them to other Pro12 teams (in Ireland). Not so sure how Tigers or the French came into this - it would be an ill comparison too as it is not a level playing field. Still, whatever suits LDs rant I guess.

I was Saint and so was the Lord, until this idiot turned up to mention an English team that suited Lords story and he jumped on this other bandwagon

by The Saint Sun 25 Jan 2015, 9:36 pm

wayne wrote:
The Saint wrote:
wayne wrote:
Steve_rugby wrote:
wayne wrote:You mentioned the fans, and how do fans make a difference by coming through the gate, well just to answer your last statement, what team playing in the Northern Hemisphere get twenty thousand watching them on a regular basis, I would not be very far out and say NONE

Well, you'd be wrong. Leicester get more than 20,000 watching them on a regular basis.
Wow, so there is 1, what part of (I would not be very far out and say NONE) don't you understand.

I thought we were focusing on Welsh teams and comparing them to other Pro12 teams (in Ireland). Not so sure how Tigers or the French came into this - it would be an ill comparison too as it is not a level playing field. Still, whatever suits LDs rant I guess.
I was Saint and so was the Lord, until this idiot turned up to mention an English team that suited Lords story and he jumped on this other bandwagon

I see that now. And you're right, that guy is an idiot Laugh

.

by Allty Sun 25 Jan 2015, 9:37 pm

LD said...............Right, thirdly and this is a very important thirdly. In each and every town, village and city you will find one or two rugby clubs, for instance the Welsh premiership has a dozen clubs each getting on times up to a thousand spectators watching every week, then in the same towns you will get smaller clubs who will have a few hundred there watching week in week out, not to mention all the lower leagues, in my town alone there are about six rugby clubs, all of them get decent support. Our regions have to compete with the myriad of rugby clubs from within they're own regions, the football clubs do not have to compete with this sort of support.
_____________________________________________

LD is way off the mark with this statement.

Clubs of old are now struggling to get one team never mind a second or third team. Some occasionaly even fail to raise a first team.

As far as LD's footy teams are concerned there are more Sunday teams in Swansea than rugby clubs in Swansea, Neath and the two valleys

by The Saint Sun 25 Jan 2015, 9:42 pm

Allty it's been that way for a while, well over 10 years (my experience span). It's nothing new and it often gets brought up on here as if it's something new and the death of Welsh rugby is on the horizon.

by Shifty Sun 25 Jan 2015, 10:44 pm

I could make a list of things thats wrong with the Welsh game, but no one would still be reading by the bottom of my post, I'll chuck in a few major ones though.

1) cost of tickets, fair enough they give season tickets away but going as a one off costs a fortune. Food at the stadiums is very expensive, though Rodney Parade is pretty reasonable.

2) car parking at some stadiums is a nightmare and expensive, the Dragons don't even have a car park!

3) the pro 12 product is bloody awful

4) the refereeing in the pro12 is very poor, refs should either be from the home nation or neutral. Every week at the Liberty we have an Irish ref, why? Amazingly we always seem to have an Irish ref at home to Ulster, Munster and Leinster, but never against Connaght, why?

5) Welsh fans WANT to see Welsh or English teams, not Irish, Scottish or Italian teams, you can't force people to take an interest.

6) The games are nearly always televised, if their free on tv, why go to the ground late in the evening on a cold winter night and freeze your nuts off? Is it a good idea to take young children, or elderly people to games that kick off at 7-8pm in winter?

7) the recent Welsh civil war has turned so many fans off professional rugby in Wales. They will watch the 6 Nations, but more and more fans are simply going back to their local clubs on a Saturday for a 14:30 kick off where it's milder.

8) Football has had an effect, when Swansea got to the Premier League a lot of people had season tickets for both teams, but a lot of duel fans came out and said they wanted to enjoy Swansea's season in the Premier league. Those fans have probably not come back to the Ospreys.

9) Leading players constantly leaving the Welsh regions. The Scarlets always seem to sell their best players, Ben Morgan, Jonathan Davies, George North, each season they lose their star player. The Ospreys have lost loads of players in recent years, hell they even released Richard Hibbard with 2 seasons left on his contract! The Dragons can't hold onto anyone! No one wants to see their team doing badly and constantly being stripped of your best players.

10) At the regions the stadiums are sometimes only 1/4 full, there is no atmosphere and the empty seats put you off going, so even less people bother going. It's a vicious circle. Why not let the fans in free and try and make money via the club shop and food sales? For the most part there is sod all walk up crowds anyway, so why not try and generate some interest and money in that way?

by LordDowlais Mon 26 Jan 2015, 8:31 am

Shifty wrote: but more and more fans are simply going back to their local clubs on a Saturday for a 14:30 kick off

I was called an idiot and stupid for suggesting that in this thread.

by Guest Mon 26 Jan 2015, 12:35 pm

If the cap fits

by bedfordwelsh Mon 26 Jan 2015, 12:47 pm

Shifty wrote:I could make a list of things thats wrong with the Welsh game, but no one would still be reading by the bottom of my post, I'll chuck in a few major ones though.

1) cost of tickets, fair enough they give season tickets away but going as a one off costs a fortune. Food at the stadiums is very expensive, though Rodney Parade is pretty reasonable. Dragons prices reasonably priced to be honest.

2) car parking at some stadiums is a nightmare and expensive, the Dragons don't even have a car park! Public car park 5 minutes walk away and not expensive.

3) the pro 12 product is bloody awful Agree in the main

4) the refereeing in the pro12 is very poor, refs should either be from the home nation or neutral. Every week at the Liberty we have an Irish ref, why? Amazingly we always seem to have an Irish ref at home to Ulster, Munster and Leinster, but never against Connaght, why? 110% agreed

5) Welsh fans WANT to see Welsh or English teams, not Irish, Scottish or Italian teams, you can't force people to take an interest. I like watching the big 3 Irish provinces

6) The games are nearly always televised, if their free on tv, why go to the ground late in the evening on a cold winter night and freeze your nuts off? Is it a good idea to take young children, or elderly people to games that kick off at 7-8pm in winter? Agree to many games on tv

7) the recent Welsh civil war has turned so many fans off professional rugby in Wales. They will watch the 6 Nations, but more and more fans are simply going back to their local clubs on a Saturday for a 14:30 kick off where it's milder. 110% agreed again

8) Football has had an effect, when Swansea got to the Premier League a lot of people had season tickets for both teams, but a lot of duel fans came out and said they wanted to enjoy Swansea's season in the Premier league. Those fans have probably not come back to the Ospreys.

9) Leading players constantly leaving the Welsh regions. The Scarlets always seem to sell their best players, Ben Morgan, Jonathan Davies, George North, each season they lose their star player. The Ospreys have lost loads of players in recent years, hell they even released Richard Hibbard with 2 seasons left on his contract! The Dragons can't hold onto anyone! No one wants to see their team doing badly and constantly being stripped of your best players.

10) At the regions the stadiums are sometimes only 1/4 full, there is no atmosphere and the empty seats put you off going, so even less people bother going. It's a vicious circle. Why not let the fans in free and try and make money via the club shop and food sales? For the most part there is sod all walk up crowds anyway, so why not try and generate some interest and money in that way?

by The Saint Mon 26 Jan 2015, 12:49 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Shifty wrote: but more and more fans are simply going back to their local clubs on a Saturday for a 14:30 kick off

I was called an idiot and stupid for suggesting that in this thread.

That's another 20 fans who could be at their region then right?

by bedfordwelsh Mon 26 Jan 2015, 12:51 pm

To be honest there's not many Regional games played on a Saturday afternoon these days

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