How can the Pro12 go the next level?

First topic message reminder :

Regardless of what anyone says about the quality of the league, I believe it is the best but I'm biased, the whole product seems to be suffering and there isn't the cash to prevent the exodus of players to France and England. This article sums it up better than I ever could so if you wish give it a read http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/iain-morrison-cap-won-t-stop-celtic-exodus-1-3670331


I don't think we are in the doomsday scenario that the article predicts, the Irish are suffering a momentary blip but still have three quality teams, the Welsh seems to be curbing the exodus, Glasgow are on the verge of outgrowing Scotstoun and Edinburgh are showing signs of improvement (and I think the academies in Scotland could make a real difference long term) . The less said about the Italians currently the better.

The options I would propose are that we add in another Welsh team and another Scottish team and remove the Italians. They can't be much worse and they'd result in more derbies which would help the broadcasters, make it more tribal and increase interest. The negatives are that it would damage Italian rugby and the Italians are unlikely to agree with it, what I would suggest alternatively is that we introduce a new league and drop down to a ten team top division meaning fewer games in the top division allowing smaller squads with higher quality players and competitive games all year round and start a second division and introduce a play off between top team from Division 2 and the bottom from Division 1 so we don't end up with a London Welsh situation

All Welsh v Welsh Pro12 games should be scheduled for Saturdays.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Scarlets v Cardiff - announced as a 4pm Sunday kick off.

That means I've already made my final trip to Parc y Scarlets already this season.

Truly pathetic league.

Sure nobody turns up at the Parc y Scarlets on a saturday so they may as well see what a Sunday is like.

In excess of 9k last season for the same fixture. And it was the last Pro12 game, so not much to play for either IIRC.
I'd say that if this fixture was scheduled around about mid season say and on Sat afternoon, new Stradey would be chocca.

That's good to see but it is a derby game after all, only 6k turned up to watch them hammer Leinster a couple of weeks ago,which is what the Dragons can pull in to RP. The reason why I bring it up is because the Scarlets really have a great club there. They play a great brand of rugby and have some really good players coming through. They deserve a lot more people through the gates.

The game against Leinster was on the same day as Wales played Scotland wasn't it?

In danger of sounding like a broken record, Gwent Dragons have 12 Sunday games this season. Possibly another one as Edinburgh is showing as TBC. I know the home games are likely due to sharing our ground with Newport County football and Newport RFC (yes they are a different side ), but the impact on revenue must be fairly significant. Historical data suggests Sunday fixtures have lower attendance, at least in Wales. Fine a few times a season, especially if everyone has to do it. Take one for the team (league), and all that. But half our games on a Sunday. C'mon.

Griff wrote:In danger of sounding like a broken record, Gwent Dragons have 12 Sunday games this season. Possibly another one as Edinburgh is showing as TBC. I know the home games are likely due to sharing our ground with Newport County football and Newport RFC (yes they are a different side ), but the impact on revenue must be fairly significant. Historical data suggests Sunday fixtures have lower attendance, at least in Wales. Fine a few times a season, especially if everyone has to do it. Take one for the team (league), and all that. But half our games on a Sunday. C'mon.

The Pro12, Magner's is a broken record and I got caught out once, waiting for a train that never arrived. Twas a Sunday. Had to get the old man to give us a lift.

Sunday game are actually better for a younger audience as a lot of people have games on Saturday so can't attend.

Any kickoff time has its drawbacks.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Scarlets v Cardiff - announced as a 4pm Sunday kick off.

That means I've already made my final trip to Parc y Scarlets already this season.

Truly pathetic league.

Sure nobody turns up at the Parc y Scarlets on a saturday so they may as well see what a Sunday is like.

In excess of 9k last season for the same fixture. And it was the last Pro12 game, so not much to play for either IIRC.
I'd say that if this fixture was scheduled around about mid season say and on Sat afternoon, new Stradey would be chocca.

That's good to see but it is a derby game after all, only 6k turned up to watch them hammer Leinster a couple of weeks ago,which is what the Dragons can pull in to RP. The reason why I bring it up is because the Scarlets really have a great club there. They play a great brand of rugby and have some really good players coming through. They deserve a lot more people through the gates.

Leinster in the Pro12 is not a great attraction i'm afraid to say.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Scarlets v Cardiff - announced as a 4pm Sunday kick off.

That means I've already made my final trip to Parc y Scarlets already this season.

Truly pathetic league.

Sure nobody turns up at the Parc y Scarlets on a saturday so they may as well see what a Sunday is like.

In excess of 9k last season for the same fixture. And it was the last Pro12 game, so not much to play for either IIRC.
I'd say that if this fixture was scheduled around about mid season say and on Sat afternoon, new Stradey would be chocca.

That's good to see but it is a derby game after all, only 6k turned up to watch them hammer Leinster a couple of weeks ago,which is what the Dragons can pull in to RP. The reason why I bring it up is because the Scarlets really have a great club there. They play a great brand of rugby and have some really good players coming through. They deserve a lot more people through the gates.

Leinster in the Pro12 is not a great attraction i'm afraid to say.

So who is a great attraction then? didn't they only get around 8k for the Leicester match in the CC this season?

That seems to be a fundamental difference between Irish and Welsh rugby. In Wales the supporters are drawn by the away team whereas in Ireland it's the home team the fans go to see.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Scarlets v Cardiff - announced as a 4pm Sunday kick off.

That means I've already made my final trip to Parc y Scarlets already this season.

Truly pathetic league.

Sure nobody turns up at the Parc y Scarlets on a saturday so they may as well see what a Sunday is like.

In excess of 9k last season for the same fixture. And it was the last Pro12 game, so not much to play for either IIRC.
I'd say that if this fixture was scheduled around about mid season say and on Sat afternoon, new Stradey would be chocca.

That's good to see but it is a derby game after all, only 6k turned up to watch them hammer Leinster a couple of weeks ago,which is what the Dragons can pull in to RP. The reason why I bring it up is because the Scarlets really have a great club there. They play a great brand of rugby and have some really good players coming through. They deserve a lot more people through the gates.

Leinster in the Pro12 is not a great attraction i'm afraid to say.

So who is a great attraction then? didn't they only get around 8k for the Leicester match in the CC this season?

Good question. All depends.

The Great Aukster wrote:That seems to be a fundamental difference between Irish and Welsh rugby. In Wales the supporters are drawn by the away team whereas in Ireland it's the home team the fans go to see.

Currently yes. And I've lauded the success story of the growth of the Irish provinces elsewhere. It has seriously impressed me. But I was there in 2001 (I think) at Donnybrook for Leinster v Newport. Circa 2k crowd. Locals in the street asking us what we were over there for. There didn't seem to be much appetite for Leinster rugby in Dublin back then.

So the fundamental difference has not been a constant. This is a relatively recent thing.

The Great Aukster wrote:That seems to be a fundamental difference between Irish and Welsh rugby. In Wales the supporters are drawn by the away team whereas in Ireland it's the home team the fans go to see.

Chalk and cheese.
Wish i'd witnessed BOD in action more in the league. Think I saw him once although I could be wrong.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:That seems to be a fundamental difference between Irish and Welsh rugby. In Wales the supporters are drawn by the away team whereas in Ireland it's the home team the fans go to see.

Chalk and cheese.
Wish i'd witnessed BOD in action more in the league. Think I saw him once although I could be wrong.

Blame the structure of the season. BOD barely played in the RDS let alone away from home but still managed to get around 30 games per season due the amount of internationals in the year and reaching the playoffs in the Rabo and HC. He only has 186 caps for Leinster remember.

Having Pro 12 games the same time as the 6nations is a joke. We should start the same week around the same time as the Top14 and take a break during the weekends the 6 nations is on. It would help the clubs as well as crowds really suffer during this period.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:That seems to be a fundamental difference between Irish and Welsh rugby. In Wales the supporters are drawn by the away team whereas in Ireland it's the home team the fans go to see.

Chalk and cheese.
Wish i'd witnessed BOD in action more in the league. Think I saw him once although I could be wrong.

Blame the structure of the season. BOD barely played in the RDS let alone away from home but still managed to get around 30 games per season due the amount of internationals in the year and reaching the playoffs in the Rabo and HC. He only has 186 caps for Leinster remember.

Having Pro 12 games the same time as the 6nations is a joke. We should start the same week around the same time as the Top14 and take a break during the weekends the 6 nations is on. It would help the clubs as well as crowds really suffer during this period.

Chalk and cheese though. The structure of the season is irrelevant. You lot are union controlled. The independent Welsh pro teams should break away and join up with the English pro teams.

Griff wrote:

Currently yes. And I've lauded the success story of the growth of the Irish provinces elsewhere. It has seriously impressed me. But I was there in 2001 (I think) at Donnybrook for Leinster v Newport. Circa 2k crowd. Locals in the street asking us what we were over there for. There didn't seem to be much appetite for Leinster rugby in Dublin back then.

So the fundamental difference has not been a constant. This is a relatively recent thing.

15 years is a pretty long time though when you live through it.  It's all the 60s and half the 70s  A lot of culture went down in those 15 years!!!  1959 and 1975 were different planets.

Griff wrote:In danger of sounding like a broken record, Gwent Dragons have 12 Sunday games this season. Possibly another one as Edinburgh is showing as TBC. I know the home games are likely due to sharing our ground with Newport County football and Newport RFC (yes they are a different side ), but the impact on revenue must be fairly significant. Historical data suggests Sunday fixtures have lower attendance, at least in Wales. Fine a few times a season, especially if everyone has to do it. Take one for the team (league), and all that. But half our games on a Sunday. C'mon.

Take a seat my good man, as it got confirmed today as a Friday night lights game. I assume it wasn't an April fool

Ah this thread has surfaced again, for me, the way the Pro12 is at the moment is farcical, I remember a time, that the away sides in the league had the a ref from the same country, why was that stopped ? I do not know what we could do, but for me the Pro12 is dying on it's feet, it is clear as day to me that the league is run to suit the Irish provinces and it's fans, the rest of us just seem to be here to give them some extra games, and here in Wales people are voting with their feet, it's a shame, but we need something to change sooner rather than later or it will all end badly.

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote:

Currently yes. And I've lauded the success story of the growth of the Irish provinces elsewhere. It has seriously impressed me. But I was there in 2001 (I think) at Donnybrook for Leinster v Newport. Circa 2k crowd. Locals in the street asking us what we were over there for. There didn't seem to be much appetite for Leinster rugby in Dublin back then.

So the fundamental difference has not been a constant. This is a relatively recent thing.

15 years is a pretty long time though when you live through it.  It's all the 60s and half the 70s  A lot of culture went down in those 15 years!!!  1959 and 1975 were different planets.

14 since I was there, yes. But when did Leinster's crowd really start to grow. 2006-ish onwards? I shall look it up. But 9 years in rugby history is relatively short. I stand by that. But Welsh rugby attendances have stayed relatively stable in that time and since the 80s/90s as far as I can see. So this 'fundamental difference' between the supporting habits of Irish and Welsh fans, for me, is still a relatively recent thing. They just weren't turning out to support the home team regardless of the opposition in Ireland, as the poster above said, until 'relatively recently'.

Cardiff Dave wrote:All Welsh v Welsh Pro12 games should be scheduled for Saturdays.

Yet only 2 out of 10 Welsh derbies at regional grounds have been played on a Saturday this season.

That is absolutely disgraceful.

Sunday games is the new headline, Lord.

Sunday games and why they prove the Pro12 is a disastrous league...

The 'Every ref is Irish' debate happened a while back and was disproven.....

How many home games have the Irish provinces played on a Sunday ? Before anybody asks, no I cannot be bothered to check.

Risca Rev wrote:

Griff wrote:In danger of sounding like a broken record, Gwent Dragons have 12 Sunday games this season. Possibly another one as Edinburgh is showing as TBC. I know the home games are likely due to sharing our ground with Newport County football and Newport RFC (yes they are a different side ), but the impact on revenue must be fairly significant. Historical data suggests Sunday fixtures have lower attendance, at least in Wales. Fine a few times a season, especially if everyone has to do it. Take one for the team (league), and all that. But half our games on a Sunday. C'mon.

Take a seat my good man, as it got confirmed today as a Friday night lights game. I assume it wasn't an April fool

C'mon Rev, don't be silly. They've got you hook, line and sinker!

LordDowlais wrote:How many home games have the Irish provinces played on a Sunday ? Before anybody asks, no I cannot be bothered to check.

2

Griff wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote:

Currently yes. And I've lauded the success story of the growth of the Irish provinces elsewhere. It has seriously impressed me. But I was there in 2001 (I think) at Donnybrook for Leinster v Newport. Circa 2k crowd. Locals in the street asking us what we were over there for. There didn't seem to be much appetite for Leinster rugby in Dublin back then.

So the fundamental difference has not been a constant. This is a relatively recent thing.

15 years is a pretty long time though when you live through it.  It's all the 60s and half the 70s  A lot of culture went down in those 15 years!!!  1959 and 1975 were different planets.

14 since I was there, yes. But when did Leinster's crowd really start to grow. 2006-ish onwards? I shall look it up.

I think the point about rugby in Ireland is that things dramatically changed when the game went Professional.  Had the game never gone professional I think Irish sides would still be getting their asses handed to them most weekends when meeting virtually any opposition from across the Irish sea.  But Professionalism changed the rhythms entirely and I think most observers would agree that Ireland took to that new reality like ducks to water - and possibly the reason so was that very truth that 'tradition' of amateurism was never so strong or populous - so not so much nostalgia held us back when considering the bright new dawn.  
Yes, it took time to gain the advantages of that Professionalism change-over that happened in 1995.  Those other deep seated club rugby heartlands across from us had a head start on quality of player and coaching nous.  But when you mention 2001 and 2006 - I think the real keystroke is that Professionalism did take 5 to 10 years to bed down and begin to make inroads.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:How many home games have the Irish provinces played on a Sunday ? Before anybody asks, no I cannot be bothered to check.

2

Serioulsy ? Well no wonder their fans are happy then. Who organises these fixtures do the tele determine the Sunday fixtures or is it to do with the league ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:How many home games have the Irish provinces played on a Sunday ? Before anybody asks, no I cannot be bothered to check.

2

Serioulsy ? Well no wonder their fans are happy then. Who organises these fixtures do the tele determine the Sunday fixtures or is it to do with the league ?

Dragons home games on a Sunday = 5
Connacht, Munster, Leinster, Ulster home games on a Sunday = 2

#BestLeagueInTheWorld

Who decides this chunky ?

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote:

Currently yes. And I've lauded the success story of the growth of the Irish provinces elsewhere. It has seriously impressed me. But I was there in 2001 (I think) at Donnybrook for Leinster v Newport. Circa 2k crowd. Locals in the street asking us what we were over there for. There didn't seem to be much appetite for Leinster rugby in Dublin back then.

So the fundamental difference has not been a constant. This is a relatively recent thing.

15 years is a pretty long time though when you live through it.  It's all the 60s and half the 70s  A lot of culture went down in those 15 years!!!  1959 and 1975 were different planets.

14 since I was there, yes. But when did Leinster's crowd really start to grow. 2006-ish onwards? I shall look it up.

I think the point about rugby in Ireland is that things dramatically changed when the game went Professional.  Had the game never gone professional I think Irish sides would still be getting their asses handed to them most weekends when meeting virtually any opposition from across the Irish sea.  But Professionalism changed the rhythms entirely and I think most observers would agree that Ireland took to that new reality like ducks to water - and possibly the reason so was that very truth that 'tradition' of amateurism was never so strong or populous - so not so much nostalgia held us back when considering the bright new dawn.  
Yes, it took time to gain the advantages of that Professionalism change-over that happened in 1995.  Those other deep seated club rugby heartlands across from us had a head start on quality of player and coaching nous.  But when you mention 2001 and 2006 - I think the real keystroke is that Professionalism did take 5 to 10 years to bed down and begin to make inroads.

I agree. But this suggests that it is not a difference in mentality between irish and welsh rugby supporters. It is not a cultural thing. The real crowd change came with success in Ireland. Leinster started doing better and the crowds came. The differnce is therefore success, IMO, not the fact that Irish fans will support the home side on masse regardless of opposition, as mentioned above.

LordDowlais wrote:Who decides this chunky ?

Pro12 (Including Unions) and the tv companies.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:How many home games have the Irish provinces played on a Sunday ? Before anybody asks, no I cannot be bothered to check.

2

You guys and your 'logic'.

Surely away Sunday games are tougher assignments for Irish Provincial fans who have to cross a sea to get to them????   There have been 4 of those... and another one coming.

But the real deal when you tot up Sunday games in total is that the Welsh Regions obviously Love Sunday games for some reason. Many more than lowly Scots, who obviously could fight hard enough not to have too many of them Many more than lowly Italians, who obviously could fight hard enough not to have too many of them either.

SecretFly wrote:

Surely away Sunday games are tougher assignments for Irish Provincial fans who have to cross a sea to get to them????   There have been 4 of those... and another one coming.

Welsh regions have had 8 away games on Sundays. So what's your point?

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:How many home games have the Irish provinces played on a Sunday ? Before anybody asks, no I cannot be bothered to check.

2

You guys and your 'logic'.

Surely away Sunday games are tougher assignments for Irish Provincial fans who have to cross a sea to get to them????   There have been 4 of those... and another one coming.

But the real deal when you tot up Sunday games in total is that the Welsh Regions obviously Love Sunday games for some reason.  Many more than lowly Scots, who obviously could fight hard enough not to have too many of them  Many more than lowly Italians, who obviously could fight hard enough not to have too many of them either.

I very much doubt you will get Irish fans comming over to Wales to watch their provinces on a Sunday. But for the home fans who want to go and watch their region, a Sunday game is a nightmare, but the Irish would not have too much bother with those issues as apparently you have only had to put up with two Sunday games at home between you.

Griff wrote:

I agree. But this suggests that it is not a difference in mentality between irish and welsh rugby supporters. It is not a cultural thing. The real crowd change came with success in Ireland. Leinster started doing better and the crowds came.  The differnce is therefore success, IMO, not the fact that Irish fans will support the home side on masse regardless of opposition, as mentioned above.

Well I was only responding to and discussing your points about time and difference in popularity.  Obviously Welsh people have decades of more deep seated fervent love for the game of rugby, so Irish fans could never claim that we simply love rugby at a deeper cultural level than the Welsh.  Hardly.

But it certainly is a sport in Ireland that the majority (that once wouldn't look at an oval ball game) find is a game that actually suits Irish temperament.  The Battle aspect of it, the Gladiatorial aspect of it - yes Munster and Leinster success added to the audiences that always come for 'success' - but I think the staying factor is a genuine discovered love for the nature of the game itself rather than simple success.

I think his point is that your clubs union and broadcaster want games on a Sunday. Or is it those dastardly Irish rugby wizards out to get you?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Surely away Sunday games are tougher assignments for Irish Provincial fans who have to cross a sea to get to them????   There have been 4 of those... and another one coming.

Welsh regions have had 8 away games on Sundays. So what's your point?

The point is you made the big deal out to be HOME Sunday games. HOME Sunday games are easier than AWAY Sunday games. One is 2, the other will be 5 by the end of the season. How many AWAY Regional games on Sunday needed a plane or ferry to get to?

The point is, that NOTHING is ever organized for the good of the league. For that reason it doesn't grow in places like Wales. It remains more or less unsellable to any floating voters outside of the hardcore season ticket holders, and even they are not renewing.

It's all a half assed attempt to keep it going. Look at the final venue. Look at the officials quality / appointments. This latest graveyard shift kick off for a Welsh derby is just another in the long line of awful decisions.

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:How many home games have the Irish provinces played on a Sunday ? Before anybody asks, no I cannot be bothered to check.

2

You guys and your 'logic'.

Surely away Sunday games are tougher assignments for Irish Provincial fans who have to cross a sea to get to them????   There have been 4 of those... and another one coming.

But the real deal when you tot up Sunday games in total is that the Welsh Regions obviously Love Sunday games for some reason.  Many more than lowly Scots, who obviously could fight hard enough not to have too many of them  Many more than lowly Italians, who obviously could fight hard enough not to have too many of them either.

I very much doubt you will get Irish fans comming over to Wales to watch their provinces on a Sunday. But for the home fans who want to go and watch their region, a Sunday game is a nightmare, but the Irish would not have too much bother with those issues as apparently you have only had to put up with two Sunday games at home between you.

And is that the fault of the Irish?

Why do you have so many Sunday games, LD? I know that Dragons take the brunt of the Sunday games. Not Scarlets, not Cardiff and not Ospreys. I have read that the reason Dragons have so many Sunday games is because their ground is not always available on Saturdays.

#itsallabigconspiracy

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:How many home games have the Irish provinces played on a Sunday ? Before anybody asks, no I cannot be bothered to check.

2

You guys and your 'logic'.

Surely away Sunday games are tougher assignments for Irish Provincial fans who have to cross a sea to get to them????   There have been 4 of those... and another one coming.

But the real deal when you tot up Sunday games in total is that the Welsh Regions obviously Love Sunday games for some reason.  Many more than lowly Scots, who obviously could fight hard enough not to have too many of them  Many more than lowly Italians, who obviously could fight hard enough not to have too many of them either.

I very much doubt you will get Irish fans comming over to Wales to watch their provinces on a Sunday. But for the home fans who want to go and watch their region, a Sunday game is a nightmare, but the Irish would not have too much bother with those issues as apparently you have only had to put up with two Sunday games at home between you.

A NON Supported Irish Province playing in Wales or Italy on a Sunday is what it is Lord - whether fans go or don't go, a car is an easier thing to organise than a plane or boat or a no-show because of those very constraints. Are cars and friends who don't drink (or won't drink so that they can drive) so difficult to come by in Wales?

SecretFly wrote:

The point is you made the big deal out to be HOME Sunday games.  HOME Sunday games are easier than AWAY Sunday games.  One is 2, the other will be 5 by the end of the season.  How many AWAY Regional games on Sunday needed a plane or ferry to get to?

You're wriggling. The Sunday kick offs are just another example of the Irish bias in the league. And you know it.

Is this really a Pro12 offends Drinkers thread BTW???  

Because the more you think about it, the more you realise many of the considered hang-ups about the organisation of rugby on these islands centres around drink - when you can have it, when you can have a lot of it, when not being able to have it annoys you, when you can't have it unless you want to suffer a hangover the following morning when going to work.

Is that the real thing that's killing Pro12 - drinkability ratings????

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

The point is you made the big deal out to be HOME Sunday games.  HOME Sunday games are easier than AWAY Sunday games.  One is 2, the other will be 5 by the end of the season.  How many AWAY Regional games on Sunday needed a plane or ferry to get to?

You're wriggling. The Sunday kick offs are just another example of the Irish bias in the league. And you know it.

You're wriggling Chunky and your grip on logic when wriggling goes down a Black Hole.

The Irish declare that purely Welsh derbies take place on Sundays to annoy the Welsh fans??? Dear God, you got it bad, Chunky.

SecretFly wrote:The point is you made the big deal out to be HOME Sunday games. HOME Sunday games are easier than AWAY Sunday games. One is 2, the other will be 5 by the end of the season. How many AWAY Regional games on Sunday needed a plane or ferry to get to?

There is a slight difference between wanting to watch your side at their own ground, than wanting to travel to watch your side playing at somebody else ground. Do you honestly think that there would be a raft of supporters coming over from Ireland to watch a province if it was on a Saturday ? Well do not bother answering because I can tell you, it's a NO. Unless they are there in disguise. The fact is, as I know first hand, watching a game on a Sunday is a nightmare, unless you drive you will be hard pushed to find any public transport on a Sunday, then there is the issue of worrying about Monday, getting home early enough on a Sunday evening, thinking about work the next day, sometimes it is not worth the hassle.

SecretFly wrote:

The Irish declare that purely Welsh derbies take place on Sundays to annoy the Welsh fans???  Dear God, you got it bad, Chunky.

Now you're just lying.

I've already just said that the Unions and broadcasters arrange the fixtures a few posts ago. Paranoid much? Or feeling guilty?

Please stop being a liar.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

The Irish declare that purely Welsh derbies take place on Sundays to annoy the Welsh fans???  Dear God, you got it bad, Chunky.

Now you're just lying.

I've already just said that the Unions and broadcasters arrange the fixtures a few posts ago. Paranoid much? Or feeling guilty?

Please stop being a liar.

Oh you must have forgotten this line then, Chunky:

"You're wriggling. The Sunday kick offs are just another example of the Irish bias in the league. And you know it."

That's what you've "already said". That's the bit I'm referring to. Irish bias, Irish refs reffing all games, Irish TMOs, Irish booze, Irish Ferries, Irish burgers, Irish TV, Irish teetotallers (the worst!)

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:How many home games have the Irish provinces played on a Sunday ? Before anybody asks, no I cannot be bothered to check.

2

You guys and your 'logic'.

Surely away Sunday games are tougher assignments for Irish Provincial fans who have to cross a sea to get to them????   There have been 4 of those... and another one coming.

But the real deal when you tot up Sunday games in total is that the Welsh Regions obviously Love Sunday games for some reason.  Many more than lowly Scots, who obviously could fight hard enough not to have too many of them  Many more than lowly Italians, who obviously could fight hard enough not to have too many of them either.

I very much doubt you will get Irish fans comming over to Wales to watch their provinces on a Sunday. But for the home fans who want to go and watch their region, a Sunday game is a nightmare, but the Irish would not have too much bother with those issues as apparently you have only had to put up with two Sunday games at home between you.

And is that the fault of the Irish?

Why do you have so many Sunday games, LD? I know that Dragons take the brunt of the Sunday games. Not Scarlets, not Cardiff and not Ospreys. I have read that the reason Dragons have so many Sunday games is because their ground is not always available on Saturdays.

#itsallabigconspiracy

Friday's are free. What's wrong with Friday's? Ulster, for example favour a Friday and request Friday's with the broadcaster. The Dragons do not request a Sunday.

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Surely away Sunday games are tougher assignments for Irish Provincial fans who have to cross a sea to get to them????   There have been 4 of those... and another one coming.

Welsh regions have had 8 away games on Sundays. So what's your point?

The point is you made the big deal out to be HOME Sunday games.  HOME Sunday games are easier than AWAY Sunday games.  One is 2, the other will be 5 by the end of the season.  How many AWAY Regional games on Sunday needed a plane or ferry to get to?

The Dragons have 5 Sunday away games too! 7 if you count the pre-season friendlies

SecretFly wrote:

That's what you've "already said".  That's the bit I'm referring to.  Irish bias, Irish refs reffing all games, Irish TMOs, Irish booze, Irish Ferries, Irish burgers, Irish TV, Irish teetotallers (the worst!)

You're now being hysterical because you are trying to defend the indefensible. The facts in this thread do not lie.

Welsh regions Home games on a Sunday = 13

Irish provinces Home games on a Sunday = 2

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The point is you made the big deal out to be HOME Sunday games. HOME Sunday games are easier than AWAY Sunday games. One is 2, the other will be 5 by the end of the season. How many AWAY Regional games on Sunday needed a plane or ferry to get to?

There is a slight difference between wanting to watch your side at their own ground, than wanting to travel to watch your side playing at somebody else ground. Do you honestly think that there would be a raft of supporters coming over from Ireland to watch a province if it was on a Saturday ? Well do not bother answering because I can tell you, it's a NO. Unless they are there in disguise. The fact is, as I know first hand, watching a game on a Sunday is a nightmare, unless you drive you will be hard pushed to find any public transport on a Sunday, then there is the issue of worrying about Monday, getting home early enough on a Sunday evening, thinking about work the next day, sometimes it is not worth the hassle.

Are we talking league viability here or HOME fans being chauffeured to their HOME games by Pro12 designated free Mercs? The ball is with your Union.... not the Pro12. Italians don't have as many Sunday games. Scottish clubs don't have as many Sunday games. Sunday games are happening for a 'reason' in Wales. When next you ask your Region why they play HOME games on Sunday, don't be satisfied with the glib answer of 'It's out of our hands'. Keep going. Ask "Why?" "Why is it out of your hands?" "Who takes it out of your hands?" "Why do they take it out of your hands?"

Griff wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:How many home games have the Irish provinces played on a Sunday ? Before anybody asks, no I cannot be bothered to check.

2

You guys and your 'logic'.

Surely away Sunday games are tougher assignments for Irish Provincial fans who have to cross a sea to get to them????   There have been 4 of those... and another one coming.

But the real deal when you tot up Sunday games in total is that the Welsh Regions obviously Love Sunday games for some reason.  Many more than lowly Scots, who obviously could fight hard enough not to have too many of them  Many more than lowly Italians, who obviously could fight hard enough not to have too many of them either.

I very much doubt you will get Irish fans comming over to Wales to watch their provinces on a Sunday. But for the home fans who want to go and watch their region, a Sunday game is a nightmare, but the Irish would not have too much bother with those issues as apparently you have only had to put up with two Sunday games at home between you.

And is that the fault of the Irish?

Why do you have so many Sunday games, LD? I know that Dragons take the brunt of the Sunday games. Not Scarlets, not Cardiff and not Ospreys. I have read that the reason Dragons have so many Sunday games is because their ground is not always available on Saturdays.

#itsallabigconspiracy

Friday's are free.  What's wrong with Friday's?  Ulster, for example favour a Friday and request Friday's with the broadcaster.  The Dragons do not request a Sunday.

We request Fridays with BBC2? Don't think so. It's a time slot that BBC2 gives us. Works for them, and works for us.

I don't what's wrong with Fridays, Griff. Maybe it's the broadcaster. Maybe a free Friday is a no no. Maybe RRW? Maybe WRU (doubt it). Maybe Dragons themselves prefer Sunday to Friday? Don't know.

I do know it's bog all to do with the IRFU or the Provinces.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

That's what you've "already said".  That's the bit I'm referring to.  Irish bias, Irish refs reffing all games, Irish TMOs, Irish booze, Irish Ferries, Irish burgers, Irish TV, Irish teetotallers (the worst!)

You're now being hysterical because you are trying to defend the indefensible. The facts in this thread do not lie.

Welsh regions Home games on a Sunday = 13

Irish provinces Home games on a Sunday = 2

Is it an Irish plot or not, Chunky. You're hopping on the fence then jumping off it at a rate of knots. Are the IRISH behind the Welsh Sunday Game virus??? Straight answer. DO THE IRISH DEMAND WELSH SUNDAY GAMES?