England XV vs Wales

First topic message reminder :

Injuries have struck England hard in the past couple of weeks. Foden, Rokoduguni, Tuilagi, Eastmond, Farrell, Morgan, Wood, Parling, Launchberry, Lawes, Slater and Cole all look set to miss out England's first match with Wales through injury. Ford our current first choice fly half suffered a mild concussion against Glasgow whilst his kicking was inconsistent too, something which has been affecting his game the last few matches.

Following these injuries this would be my XV and subs to take on Wales.

1. J.Marler
2. D.Hartley
3. D.Wilson
4. G.Kruis
5. D.Attwood
6. J.Haskell
7. C.Robshaw
8. B.Vunipola

The front row would remain unchanged after going so well in the Autumn internationals. Kruis will come in for the injured Lawes, although I think England would have opted for Parling had he been fit. In the back row Haskell will come in for the injured Wood, however, I think on form Haskell would have been pushing very close for a starting spot anyway. Vunipola is offered another chance with Morgan out injured.

09. B.Youngs
10. D.Cipriani
11. J.May
12. B.Barritt
13. L.Burrell
14. A.Watson
15. M.Brown

At half back Youngs has been in good form for Leicester this season and has emerged as a leader too. Cipriani would get the nod over Ford on form, he has a huge chance with Farrell out injured and I think he might just take it. In the centres Barritt will be selected on merit in his more comfortable role of inside centre, I feel his defensive leadership will be integral against Wales. Burrell has also had a strong season and deserves his chance. Our back three although a little lightweight has bags of pace and enthusiasm and will be looking to kick on from the Autumn.

16. T.Youngs
17. A.Corbisiero
18. K.Brookes
19. G.Kitchener
20. C.Clark
21. D.Care
22. G.Ford
23. J.Joseph

What a bench! Youngs and Corbisiero are both Lions whilst Brookes impressed when he came on in the Autumn. Kitchener is in the form of his life at the moment too, so will relish this opportunity. It was a tough call between Easter and Clark, but I'd go with the latter who has been in top form for Northampton and it's time to see if he can sink or swim at international level. Care, Ford and Joseph provide a lethal attacking threat and will look to inject something different when they come on. Joseph is very unlucky to miss out on a starting spot, he has been electric all season and put in another impressive showing yesterday against Glasgow.

What would be your XV?

No9 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:England Wales. Out of 125 games in 123 years so far Wales have scored 30 points in 4 of them (against 12 by England)

Good luck with that prediction no.9

So... the past is the past and has no bearing until on the future. The future is yet to be seen...

We put 30 points on a team coming to play for the Slam. There's nothing to say we cant do the same against a second string side at the beginning of the tournament. But whether its a 1 point or 101 point winning margin I wont care, as long as its a Win..

to be honest...:

What I would say is that in the last few years Wales have finished the championship playing a good deal better than they have started it. They may play fantastically at the end of next week, but if their performance matches what has happened the last few years a win is most likely to be of the messy and close kind.

lostinwales wrote:

No9 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:England Wales. Out of 125 games in 123 years so far Wales have scored 30 points in 4 of them (against 12 by England)

Good luck with that prediction no.9

So... the past is the past and has no bearing until on the future. The future is yet to be seen...

We put 30 points on a team coming to play for the Slam. There's nothing to say we cant do the same against a second string side at the beginning of the tournament. But whether its a 1 point or 101 point winning margin I wont care, as long as its a Win..

to be honest...:

What I would say is that in the last few years Wales have finished the championship playing a good deal better than they have started it. They may play fantastically at the end of next week, but if their performance matches what has happened the last few years a win is most likely to be of the messy and close kind.

lost,

Never truer word spoken, we are notoriously slow starters in any competition and with 3 away games we can't afford to do that again, we simply have to hit the ground running and see whether that is good enough for the win. If we start slow then it won't be.

I think Kruis is around 112-115kg - so about 18st. He's not a lightweight in terms of power though IMO.

I've always found Attwood and his "power" a bit overrated to be honest.

Anyway size isn't everything. If it was then Richie Gray would be the best lock in the world, Banahan the best winger, Billy, the best no 8 etc.


Really not feeling confident about seeing 36 at 12.

I think the pack will be competitive whoever England pick (I know no one rates Kruis but he's not that bad).

Backline.... let's hope Ford doesn't pick up an early injury.... imagine a 10-12 combo of Cipriani-36 - high risk....

Not sure where to post this, or if it's been posted already, but to get us in the mood: the new Welsh 6N advert:

https://youtu.be/JCV36jW3FVk

Barney McGrew did it wrote: To be honest I’m finding it harder and harder to take test rugby seriously when so many players are absent so regularly. Can you imagine say a football world cup with so many of the big names on a sick-note. Rugby has to get its house in order if it wants to attract a global audience – people will want to see the top players playing the big games. There’s just too much top level rugby and the evidence is there to be seen.

Wise words Mr McGrew. Let's have leagues with no playoffs and finals - just a winner. Plus good cup competitions that all participants care about. Test matches should be special and the stage for the very best players.

offload wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote: To be honest I’m finding it harder and harder to take test rugby seriously when so many players are absent so regularly. Can you imagine say a football world cup with so many of the big names on a sick-note. Rugby has to get its house in order if it wants to attract a global audience – people will want to see the top players playing the big games. There’s just too much top level rugby and the evidence is there to be seen.

Wise words Mr McGrew.  Let's have leagues with no playoffs and finals - just a winner.  Plus good cup competitions that all participants care about.  Test matches should be special and the stage for the very best players.

That would only work if the unions could stump up enough cash to replace the lost revenue. You may not like playoffs and finals, or the LV= cup, but they are worth a lot to your club or region. They aren't going anywhere any time soon.

What I would like to see is the RFU move more towards central contracts when it renegotiates its agreement with the clubs. I'd like to see them pay enough that a club can afford to have a strong replacement for its internationals, in return for which the RFU would have more control over playing time and rest periods.

We're at a crucial point in the evolution of the professional game where - in England at least - the economics of club rugby are getting close to sustainable and not far from being able to challenge the international game in importance. The RFU needs to make sure that what happened to soccer can't happen to rugby. The international game has to remain the ultimate goal of the players, and that means ensuring that it is not worth clubs' or players' interests for players to forget their international ambitions and only play for clubs. While we can't control what the French (in particular) are doing, it is important that the English system doesn't make it worse.

Griff wrote:Not sure where to post this, or if it's been posted already, but to get us in the mood: the new Welsh 6N advert:

https://youtu.be/JCV36jW3FVk

I like it

beshocked wrote:

Backline.... let's hope Ford doesn't pick up an early injury.... imagine a 10-12 combo of Cipriani-36 - high risk....

To be honest if Ford and 36 play with Cips on the bench then I would be rather hoping 36 doesn't get injured, the thought of a combination of Ford and Cips with Doc running at them does not make me rest easy.

Griff wrote:Not sure where to post this, or if it's been posted already, but to get us in the mood: the new Welsh 6N advert:

https://youtu.be/JCV36jW3FVk

Damn, I was hoping no one outside Wales would see that cringe-making advert. It's untrue, unfunny and mean to the Scots.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Griff wrote:Not sure where to post this, or if it's been posted already, but to get us in the mood: the new Welsh 6N advert:

https://youtu.be/JCV36jW3FVk

Damn, I was hoping no one outside Wales would see that cringe-making advert. It's untrue, unfunny and mean to the Scots.

I took it more as a bit tongue in cheek, with the advert poking fun at us Welsh more than anything.

Beshocked

I don't think noone likes Kruis. I think its more about a case of people working out his style and seeing where he fits. I'm thinking he's more like your wood, Launchbury...unflashy but just gets stuck in and works his socks off.

Griff wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Griff wrote:Not sure where to post this, or if it's been posted already, but to get us in the mood: the new Welsh 6N advert:

https://youtu.be/JCV36jW3FVk

Damn, I was hoping no one outside Wales would see that cringe-making advert. It's untrue, unfunny and mean to the Scots.

I took it more as a bit tongue in cheek, with the advert poking fun at us Welsh more than anything.

Each to their own. It makes me cringe!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Griff wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Griff wrote:Not sure where to post this, or if it's been posted already, but to get us in the mood: the new Welsh 6N advert:

https://youtu.be/JCV36jW3FVk

Damn, I was hoping no one outside Wales would see that cringe-making advert. It's untrue, unfunny and mean to the Scots.

I took it more as a bit tongue in cheek, with the advert poking fun at us Welsh more than anything.

Each to their own. It makes me cringe!

Like you say, each to their own. Last year's one which was a deliberate provocation of the English was a lot more cringeworthy IMO. Which was why it was banned I expect.

Luckless you're still a miserable bugger then. The advert does make us look a bit bonkers tbh... Fair representation?

cringeworthy advert.

The Saint wrote:Luckless you're still a miserable bugger then. The advert does make us look a bit bonkers tbh... Fair representation?

I'm not miserable, I just think that advert is deeply unfunny.

Well I'm with you Griff. Light hearted and mildly amusing. I guess this shows you can't please everyone, so it. Let them do whatever the hell they want next year.

PS Certainly less cringeworthy than the World Cup advert with Charles Dance

After listening to lancasters interview on the beeb I think he's looking to field this back line
Brown
Nowell
Burrell
Twelvetrees
May
Ford
Youngs

Which interview is that?

I think that will be incredibly harsh on JJ if he does. I may regret my optimism but I think he'll pick JJ at 13 and if I say it enough it might happen.

That would also be harsh on Watson who has done nothing wrong. I'd like to see someone other than Brown get a shot at fullback, but not Goode! Watson or Nowell, Brown is a good player but some Quins games I have watched he can be so selfish with the ball. I don't want him replaced but just someone to really push him now Foden is out.

little_badger wrote:Which interview is that?

I think that will be incredibly harsh on JJ if he does. I may regret my optimism but I think he'll pick JJ at 13 and if I say it enough it might happen.

That would also be harsh on Watson who has done nothing wrong. I'd like to see someone other than Brown get a shot at fullback, but not Goode! Watson or Nowell, Brown is a good player but some Quins games I have watched he can be so selfish with the ball. I don't want him replaced but just someone to really push him now Foden is out.

Absolutely agree. Watson and May deserve a few more starts after their performances in the AIs. Nowell doesn't deserve to slot straight back into the team. Yes, he has 'credit in the bank' or however SL refers to it, but no one automatically deserves to start coming back from injury.

Despite not having his best season compared to last at least but surely Brown 'has credit in the bank'.

He was outstanding last season and still looks good this year.

That would be disappointing, I see the argument for 36 and Burrell having worked well in the last 6N (at least I hope they would be that way round rather than Burrell at IC and 36 at OC!), but how you can discount Joseph's performances is beyond me

Has Burrell played at 13 much this season?

Then bringing Nowell (who I do like) back in ahead of Watson, when our wings were probably the biggest positive to come out of the autumn games is just frankly stupid

On 5 live around 7.30pm
He was talking about last years squad and continuation
He praised Watson and nowell
I could be wrong,stranger things have happened

bedfordwelsh wrote:Despite not having his best season compared to last at least but surely Brown 'has credit in the bank'.

He was outstanding last season and still looks good this year.

Brown definitely has credit. His form might have dipped but he's still our best fullback.

I like Watson but in his last 2 important matches he went for tries at key moments and got held up. No well is heavier, stronger and breaks more tackles. Can see why SL might go with nowell

Not picking JJ however would be criminal.

quinsforever depends what you want from a winger.

Nowell is like an extra full back - solid but struggles to score tries.

Watson and May are more able to create a sparkling attack from nothing but still doubts. Deserve another go.

Best finisher in England is still Ashton IMO but needs to be utilised properly plus still question marks over defence and discipline.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Despite not having his best season compared to last at least but surely Brown 'has credit in the bank'.

He was outstanding last season and still looks good this year.

Brown's been looking close to his best in the last couple of Quins games. The ABs adopted tactics that would have made it difficult for any fullback, and he looked a bit shaky at the start of the club season (particularly after a big hit in the air in the Exeter game that may have meant he was carrying an injury for a few games), but he seems to be finding form,

I think Nowell is improving on the try scoring front. He was very raw last year, with plenty of room for improvement.

This season has inevitably been disrupted by injury but he has been in good form and scoring.

But I would say that Watson/ May looked like a great combo

Against anyone good?

You are right though inevitably he should be a better player than last season - more gametime, more experienced.

Nowell scored against Bath, Gloucester and Bayonne. Haven't bothered to look back further and no idea if they were run in from his own 22 or flops over the line

Not entirely sure that Ashton is a great finisher if you're meaning beating players and finsihing hard chances. What he's great at is his tracking and finsihing tries that are dot downs. He hasn't been making those tracking runs or being successful with them for England for a while though.

england's gameplan doesnt suit an Ashton type of player

Ashton is the rugby equivalent of a lineker type footballer. has a nose for being in the right place at the right time, and just doenst miss from 10 yds out. hits ball at pace and almost always finds that weak inside shoulder.

england under lancaster though dont want him to come in looking for work like that. defense first, second and third...

Touch unfair, we've not got a bad try scoring record.

no 7 &1/2

Beating players or line breaks doesn't necessarily result in tries. Exploiting those are just as important.


When I mean best finisher I should really say he has one of the best strike rates.

None of his tries are particularly spectacular but he scores because of his tracking and support play.

He has scored enough tries against top quality sides to show that it's not just minnows he can score against.

When I think of best finishers, I think of the guy who gets the ball out on the wing with less than 15m to the try line and is one on one, who would I want in that scenario

In world rugby - Savea, North, Habana even at this age

For England .. I would still probably go with Yarde, then May

BamBam wrote:When I think of best finishers, I think of the guy who gets the ball out on the wing with less than 15m to the try line and is one on one, who would I want in that scenario

In world rugby - Savea, North, Habana even at this age

For England .. I would still probably go with Yarde, then May

Not Wade?

thomh wrote:

BamBam wrote:When I think of best finishers, I think of the guy who gets the ball out on the wing with less than 15m to the try line and is one on one, who would I want in that scenario

In world rugby - Savea, North, Habana even at this age

For England .. I would still probably go with Yarde, then May

Not Wade?

Just based on having done it at international level already, I'm pretty confident that Wade would be an excellent finisher, but as he hasn't yet I've excluded him for now

In more excellent news, David Wilson is unable to train due to a nerve issue so Brookes has been called up as cover from the Saxons

beshocked wrote:no 7 &1/2

Beating players or line breaks doesn't necessarily result in tries. Exploiting those are just as important.


When I mean best finisher I should really say he has one of the best strike rates.

None of his tries are particularly spectacular but he scores because of his tracking and support play.

He has scored enough tries against top quality sides to show that it's not just minnows he can score against.

Yup I agree. Just a shame he hasn't been able to show that for England consistently for a while. He has another chance so I hope he takes it with the Saxons and shows that he's worked on his defence.

BamBam wrote:In more excellent news, David Wilson is unable to train due to a nerve issue so Brookes has been called up as cover from the Saxons

Isn't Cole still recovering too? 

So Brookes is the only TH training in the EPS?

Shane Geraghty will be training with England on Friday as a centre. He can be excellent and I genuinely think he (along with most English centres to be fair) is a far better option than Twelvetrees. Presumably this just means he's on the Saxons radar though?

Shane Geraghty called up to train with the EPS now too, despite not being named in EPS or Saxons. Sounds like he's there to make up training numbers

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/rugby-wilson-fresh-doubt-england-131844958--spt.html

According to Lancs in order to not disturb the Saxons any more. Although we know what store he sets by training so he could well make an impact if he plays well. Plus it seems like Stew is sticking to the playmaking 12.

beshocked wrote:quinsforever depends what you want from a winger.

Nowell is like an extra full back - solid but struggles to score tries.

Watson and May are more able to create a sparkling attack from nothing but still doubts. Deserve another go.

Best finisher in England is still Ashton IMO but needs to be utilised properly plus still question marks over defence and discipline.

I don't think Ashton is even the best finisher at Sarries. Strettle is an exceptional finisher and I rate him higher than many of the guys we have in the EPS, Ashton included

Strettle is the best finisher in the AP - Ashton better at getting into try scoring positions off his wing though.

Issue for me is that if other people don't create Ashton's try's for him then they don't happen! He doesn't bull doze over or go on particularly mazy runs.

Jack Nowell is a destructive runner with ball in hand who can play 13,14,15. whilst playing 13 the other day he made 14 tackles and scored a try from outside the 22 where he literally drove 3 men over the line with him.

Id have him on the bench for England even with a full fit 23. I've got no doubt he will eventually become a household name. I also rate Watson highly however, both have excellent defence, can truck the ball up and are good in the air! tough call.......

Wilson now out

Its getting hard now to keep track of who England do have fit.

Is that official? Last I saw was Brookes in as cover

Right now the official word seems to be Wilson isnt training tomorrow. Its a trapped nerve and they are hoping it calms down for next week.