Threat to 6 Nations being Free-to-Air ???

http://www.planet-rugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,3551_9685817,00.html

Six Nations chief executive John Feehan has warned that any decision to add the Championship to the list of protected sports events that must be broadcast live on terrestrial television would be 'extraordinarily detrimental' to the sport.

Under current broadcast regulations in the UK, only highlights of the northern hemisphere's premier international competition have to be shown on a free-to-air channel but Labour are reportedly considering adding the Six Nations to the protected list if they win this year's election on May 7.

Feehan admits that the Six Nations has benefited from its long-term partnership with terrestrial broadcaster the BBC but is totally against any move that would prevent deep-pocketed pay-per-view broadcasters such as Sky and BT Sport the chance to bid for the rights in the future and also potentially deny the Six Nations Committee millions of pounds in revenue.

"All I can say is that it would be extraordinarily detrimental to our game if any government was to turn round and say you have to have the Six Nations on terrestrial television," said Feehan, speaking at the official launch of this year's Championship in London.

"I think we could lose significant levels of revenue because effectively you would not be getting a market price for what is the greatest championship in the world.

"We have a belief in terrestrial broadcasting, we have a belief in free-to-air, but having said that, everyone has to be given an opportunity to at least put their best foot forward and that's all we are looking for."

Every Six Nations game has been live on terrestrial television since 2003 when the Championship returned exclusively to the BBC following the end of Sky Sports' controversial deal with the Rugby Football Union that saw England games broadcast on pay-per-view and the remainder by the corporation.

Sky have reportedly expressed an interest in adding the Six Nations rights to their already extensive rugby portfolio that includes England's November internationals and June tours, the British & Irish Lions, the European Rugby Champions Cup, the PRO12 and France's Top 14.

However, it is understood that they failed in their most recent attempt to prise the rights from the BBC back in 2011 when the public-funded broadcaster agreed its latest contract extension that runs until 2017.

But with the BBC having to increasingly pick its battles when it comes to bidding for valuable TV rights, Sky are expected to mount another challenge later this year alongside their efforts to secure the rights to The Open golf championship, another prized asset currently broadcast by the corporation.

"We have an open relationship with all the broadcasters in the UK, from A to Z, because effectively we always keep a dialogue going for a heap of different reasons," said Feehan.

"But it is right and proper to say that the BBC have been a fantastic partner over many, many years and we would hope, and they have certainly indicated to us, that they would want to be involved in the future.

"But I do think, for genuine reasons that we need to realise whatever value is in the Championship. The BBC have always been very competitive and they should continue to be so but the only way we can guarantee that is if they have to challenge in an open and fair market."

I think I would honestly consider whether I would bother watching it if it went PPV, is nothing sacred anymore?

Amen to that

Great way to lose millions of viewers..

The more this happens, the more everyone should just stop paying for their TV licence.

This would be a diasaster IMHO. For just about the only time in a year anyone can turn on the TV and catch a game of rugby and watch their heroes. What would they do with the buckets of sky/BT money anyway certainly won't all be going into grass roots to grow the game.

The Wales home games are protected. Feehan's primary focus is money. It's why they won't move the 6 nations to better weather. It's why he doesn't want it protected. Not because he wants to sell out to Sky but because it means there so more competition for BBC to make sure they bid high.

So much for "the good of the game". Unions just as greedy as club owners, just try to claim some moral high ground.

Frak off John Feehan. Come back, then Frak off again.
Similarly Frak off Sky & Frak off BT.

This has to be one of the worst ideas I've ever read. Total greed with zero regard for the average fan.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:The more this happens, the more everyone should just stop paying for their TV licence.

This won't really help the problem. I'm sure the Beeb would love to keep the 6N, amongst other sports rights like the Open golf, but the amount of pressure from the right wing media (most of whom have an indirect interest in seeing the BBC fail) on the TV licence means that they have to be seen to be offering value for money.

Obviously all us rugby nuts would be aghast at the thought of no 6N on free to air TV, but non rugby fans would argue that money could go towards keeping hold of Premier League highlights, or the golf

And I don't think I could cope with ITV massacring the coverage by sticking adverts in the middle of the game like they have a habit of doing with the round ball game

Apologies for getting a bit political

Agree bambam

So that's why govt needs to protect the tournament and make it not a BBC issue.

Welsh assembly have done it. We should too.

And anyway, Feehan is a stupid tw4t. 95% of the commercial value of the 6N rights is the broadcasting to the english-based viewers, given that the welsh viewers are protected by their Assembly.

So what the tool is really proposing is to increase the revenues for the 6N committee (and therefore the revenues of the member Unions) by making the england-based viewers pay up.

Well i tell you what, how is that different from the RFU deciding to sell its own home games to SKY?

Utter fookin hypocrisy

So would that cover Welsh games in the 6N? Or is that a separate deal only for AIs?

John Feehan, he's great isn't he

http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/16550.php

Announcing Belfast as the chosen host city John Feehan, CEO of PRO12 Rugby said: "Belfast is an inspiring host city and the new Kingspan Stadium is a state-of-the-art venue for the Guinness PRO12 Final.

Which kicked-off this - https://www.606v2.com/t57402-kingspan-stadium-to-host-pro12-final

it's the current recommendation of Ofcom for when they update what counts as a "listed event".

6Ns and AIs involving Wales should be shown on free-to-air (in Wales only).

Unbelievable. 

Everyone has the right to watch their national team play without having to pay extortionate amounts of money to some perfidious and gluttonous organisation. I can't stand the way these corporations ostracise the average fan with no regard. It's a disgrace that the 'power players' and prawn-sandwich eaters in rugby don't stand up for the sport.

Its also short term vs long term thinking. Putting the 6N on Sky will increase revenue in the short term but wont help to grow the game at all.

lostinwales wrote:Its also short term vs long term thinking. Putting the 6N on Sky will increase revenue in the short term but wont help to grow the game at all.

100% right - which is why the celtic unions resisted this last time.

Time for the governments to act.

Getting political again, this article states that Labour want to make 6N and other events protected

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/11369853/England-football-qualifiers-Six-Nations-and-Ashes-could-become-protected-terrestrial-TV-events-under-Labour.html

Seeing as nothing else would probably change very much regardless of who wins, if they promise this it would probably swing my vote, sad as that sounds

The Labour Party trying to get the rugby fans vote... Can't see that working in the Tory biased rugby heartlands of england...

Don't worry people, you will be able to watch your country playing against Wales on free to air tv, like quins and hammer have said the Welsh games are protected for the people in Wales, so all you need is a digotal box that is able to pick up BBC Wales or S4C.

Sad times.
If it hadn't been for the 6Nations on BBC don't know if I'd ever had discovered rugby.

Earliest rugby memory is watching Scotland in the 05 6nations, which bizarrely didn't put me off!

GLove39 wrote:Sad times.
If it hadn't been for the 6Nations on BBC don't know if I'd ever had discovered rugby.

Earliest rugby memory is watching Scotland WALES in the 05 6nations, which bizarrely didn't put me off!

That's what really got you into rugby

The sadest part is this ain't about making rugby better its all about making rich folk richer. Let's hope they choke on there caviar and quails eggs

To be honest I cannot see this happening anyway, if the Welsh games are protected for people in Wales, how could Sky or BT warrent charging people for them as well ?

Is it all Welsh games are protected, or just home games?

If its the former, I imagine that the rights would be split up by country home games, and there would be nothing to stop Sky/BT buying up the English/Irish/Scottish/Italian/French home games and putting every game other than the 2/3 Wales play at home every year on

Thinking about it, it must be all Wales home games, as the summer tours etc aren't on free to air tv

It's just the Welsh home games in the 6 nations at the minute.

And this isn't about selling out to sky or adverts (ITV can still get the rights if they wanted as they're FTA). It's having the option for multiple bidders, rather than just BBC and ITV. Doesn't mean they'd go.

carpet baboon wrote:The sadest part is this ain't about making rugby better its all about making rich folk richer. Let's hope they choke on there caviar and quails eggs

Please enlighten me as to who the rich people getting richer will be?

Should extra profits be driven from the 6Ns it would be shared amongst the 6 Unions to spend on rugby in their countries. Or are we now saying that we cannot trust the Unions to spend the money?

LondonTiger wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:The sadest part is this ain't about making rugby better its all about making rich folk richer. Let's hope they choke on there caviar and quails eggs

Please enlighten me as to who the rich people getting richer will be?

Should extra profits be driven from the 6Ns it would be shared amongst the 6 Unions to spend on rugby in their countries. Or are we now saying that we cannot trust the Unions to spend the money?

The RFU has to compensate the clubs for allowing their players represent England

Hardly surprising this is happening. Lets hope the 6Ns doesn't do what the EPCR did and split the games between different pay-per-view channels.

HammerofThunor wrote:It's just the Welsh home games in the 6 nations at the minute.

And this isn't about selling out to sky or adverts (ITV can still get the rights if they wanted as they're FTA). It's having the option for multiple bidders, rather than just BBC and ITV. Doesn't mean they'd go.

Business man " so accept a lower offer for the good of all or shall I take the massive offer and exclude thousands of people, but buy myself some property to rent out and make me more money"
Maybe I'm wring but I guess what he would pick

Sin é wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:The sadest part is this ain't about making rugby better its all about making rich folk richer. Let's hope they choke on there caviar and quails eggs

Please enlighten me as to who the rich people getting richer will be?

Should extra profits be driven from the 6Ns it would be shared amongst the 6 Unions to spend on rugby in their countries. Or are we now saying that we cannot trust the Unions to spend the money?

The RFU has to compensate the clubs for allowing their players represent England

Hardly surprising this is happening. Lets hope the 6Ns doesn't do what the EPCR did and split the games between different pay-per-view channels.

And the Irish players play for free?



Will it actually happen - maybe. If however 6Ns is given protected status it does mean that the money received by the unions will go down - unless ITV or Channel 4/5 enter the bidding - as BBC will have no competitors.

True but maybe on fta more people become interested in the sport it grows if it grows revenue goes up. Win win. For everyone

carpet baboon wrote:True but maybe on fta more people become  interested in the sport it grows if it grows revenue goes up. Win win. For  everyone

Yes - just takes longer.

I always think of Cricket. I watched loads on the box when I was a kid, and as we don't have sky my two sons never do, and have next to no understanding of the game. It was a huge and influential sport in the UK, cant help thinking its a lot smaller than it was.

This doesn't necessarily suggest the Wales games are protected.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-31041407

That would make sense, because the 6N is a legitimate championship, and the rights to it should be combined, whereas the AIs are organised by each individual union, meaning that they can sell the rights themselves

I suppose the compromise could be that S4C continues to show Wales games in the Welsh language, with English-language rights going to Sky or BT.

This gives the protected sporting events.

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/broadcast/other-codes/ofcom_code_on_sport.pdf

And this is the relevant bit.

Ofcom wrote:Annex 1
2 UK Listed Sporting Events
GROUP A
The Olympic Games
The FIFA World Cup Finals Tournament
The FA Cup Final
The Scottish FA Cup Final (in Scotland)
The Grand National
The Derby
The Wimbledon Tennis Finals
The European Football Championship Finals Tournament
The Rugby League Challenge Cup Final *
The Rugby World Cup Final *
GROUP B
Cricket Test Matches played in England
Non-Finals play in the Wimbledon Tournament
All Other Matches in the Rugby World Cup Finals Tournament *
Six Nations Rugby Tournament Matches Involving Home Countries**
The Commonwealth Games *
The World Athletics Championship *
The Cricket World Cup - the Final, Semi-finals and Matches Involving Home Nations’ Teams * The Ryder Cup *
The Open Golf Championship *

So the only protected live rugby game at the moment is the World Cup final. And that's for the UK. Not England or England and Scotland. The whole of the UK. There was a proposal to protect the Welsh home 6 nation games (and only these ones) but it hasn't been enacted yet.

But it will be. Was proposed in 2009 review and agreed. Final decision on whole package is pending, but the welsh carve out is done. And it is all welsh 6Ns games, and all other welsh home international (AIs predominantly). EU precedent has been set in relation to FIFA and welsh assembly have paid attention. Good on me I say

See ofcom listed events on Wikipedia. Welsh assembly made it so.

Quick poll. First international experience being the six/5 nations On telly?

carpet baboon wrote:Quick poll. First international experience being the six/5 nations On telly?

Yep - 1999 Wales v England

For me I think it was 88 Ireland vs Wales. My dad noted out I would have done a better job at ten than the Ireland fly half. I was 9 so believed an international career beconed. I was wrong. But even still I love rugby

http://web.archive.org/web/20091116125017/http://www.culture.gov.uk/reference_library/media_releases/6436.aspx

in bold below...does not mean home games only, it means all 6Ns matches involving Wales should only be broadcast FTA in Wales

The Panel recommends that the following events should be protected for free-to-air live coverage:
The Summer Olympic Games
FIFA World Cup Finals Tournament
UEFA European Football Championship Finals Tournament
The Grand National
The FA Cup Final (in England, Wales and Northern Ireland only)
The Scottish FA Cup (in Scotland only)
Home and away qualification matches in the FIFA World Cup and UEFA European Football Championships (listed in the Home Nation to which they relate)
The All-England Wimbledon Lawn Tennis Championship (listed in its entirety)
The Open Golf Championship
Cricket’s Home Ashes Test matches
The Rugby Union World Cup Tournament
Wales matches in the Six Nations Rugby Championship (in Wales only)

5Ns 1983 - England got the wooden spoon!

carpet baboon wrote:Quick poll. First international experience being the six/5 nations On telly?

Yes - Think it would be Scotland v England, 2000.

Terrible weather and all Scottish points from Duncan Hodge.

quinsforever wrote:http://web.archive.org/web/20091116125017/http://www.culture.gov.uk/reference_library/media_releases/6436.aspx

in bold below...does not mean home games only, it means all 6Ns matches involving Wales should only be broadcast FTA in Wales

The Panel recommends that the following events should be protected for free-to-air live coverage:
The Summer Olympic Games
FIFA World Cup Finals Tournament
UEFA European Football Championship Finals Tournament
The Grand National
The FA Cup Final (in England, Wales and Northern Ireland only)
The Scottish FA Cup (in Scotland only)
Home and away qualification matches in the FIFA World Cup and UEFA European Football Championships (listed in the Home Nation to which they relate)
The All-England Wimbledon Lawn Tennis Championship (listed in its entirety)
The Open Golf Championship
Cricket’s Home Ashes Test matches
The Rugby Union World Cup Tournament
Wales matches in the Six Nations Rugby Championship (in Wales only)

That hasn't (at least yet) been adopted though, as is evident by the presence of home Ashes tests and international football qualifiers on the same list.

quinsforever wrote:But it will be. Was proposed in 2009 review and agreed. Final decision on whole package is pending, but the welsh carve out is done. And it is all welsh 6Ns games, and all other welsh home international (AIs predominantly). EU precedent has been set in relation to FIFA and welsh assembly have paid attention. Good on me I say

See ofcom listed events on Wikipedia. Welsh assembly made it so.

Think you're getting a bit mixed up there. The BBC proposed all the Welsh internationals should be protected. Then an independent review (lead by David Davies) recommended that the Welsh 6 nations internationals (in Wales) are protected (not the AI). It was deferred to 2013 and then deferred again. No idea when it's to be implemented (and it doesn't matter until 2017 anyway as the 6 nations tv deal is wrapped up until then).

You seem to have assumed that the (in Wales) means broadcast in Wales rather than played in Wales. What's that assumption based on, or is it detailed somewhere? I'm not sure if the TV rights can be subdivided into various parts of the UK. I can get S4C and BBCW.

Also, not sure what the Assembly has to do with it. David Davies is an English MP.

BBC wont have proposed anything, unless at the behest of someone else. pressure from the welsh assembly (first minister most obviously quoted) is what originated this request in mid 2000s. it got included in ofcom review of 2009 (davies was one of many on the panel, not the only one) revision of List A and List B. decision deferred, and obviously no rush on the welsh "devolved 6Nations viewing" as the rights arent up for auction again until what, 2017?

nailed on certainty though, in this world of even great powers to Scotland, Welsh and Northern Irish parliaments/assemblies, that Wales will be able to decide this one for themselves.

especially if Labour are talking about it for the whole of the UK. in wales as the articles suggest, more than twice as much in % terms of the population watch the 6Ns.