England Fullback's

Am I the only England fan a bit concerned that we haven't seen anyone else play 15 for England in a long while? I accept that Mike Brown is nailed on for the 15 shirt for the World Cup but were only one injury away from having Jack Nowell or Anthony Watson thrown into the deep end playing a position for England Senior's for the first time.

I heard a pod-cast with Lancaster where he said that if Alex Goode plays then the whole shape of the back line has to change dramatically as he would become the second distributor which would mean we would need two ball carrying centre's. If Twelvetrees or Slade ( I think they are in direct competition for a place in the 15/23) are also on the pitch then suddenly we would look very underpowered ball in hand

so I assume that either Watson or Nowell would go to 15 if Goode is not on the bench (which he hasn't been for a while)

Maybe Lancaster will drop Brown for the Italy game????

Watson looks pretty handy at 15.

No Foden is a blow, given what he offers and his experience. But we have Watson, Nowell and Pennell as other options, as well as ( ) Goode

There was a time, not so long ago, when you could have fielded an entire England backline of players who could cover full back.

If we ever really got in a pickle before the World Cup, and needed someone with experience, then Abendanon is having a great season and Tait is still around.

Delon Armitage is playing extremely well and brings that confrontational edge to the team too

Watson is a great runner, but I'm not confident in him under the high ball just yet, I reckon Nowell could be excellent there long term though

I seem to remember Nowell dropping some absolute clangers in the last 6Ns and being out of position quite a bit so not so sure.

yappysnap wrote:I seem to remember Nowell dropping some absolute clangers in the last 6Ns and being out of position quite a bit so not so sure.

That was early on working from wing and he was very raw. I would have hoped a year on he would be better. There were good signs too and as an old teacher of mine used to say 'the man who never made any mistakes never made anything'.

Annoyed I forgot about Tait, as well as DA and Abenawotsit

Homer?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Homer?

D'oh

Now we are just doing that thing of listing anyone who plays professionally at 15 and qualifies for England

He's been injured a lot but he's pretty decent every time I see him.

Poor Goode - the most hated full back in the country. People forget we beat the ABs with him wearing the 15 shirt.

I would love it if he had a bit more pace but I don't think he's bad as long as you don't have inexperienced rookies playing with him or full backs on the wing.

beshocked wrote:Poor Goode - the most hated full back in the country. People forget we beat the ABs with him wearing the 15 shirt.

I would love it if he had a bit more pace but I don't think he's bad as long as you don't have inexperienced rookies playing with him or full backs on the wing.

We also beat the ABs with Mike Brown wearing the 11 shirt...

Goode is a very skilled player but it was clear from his third (I think) start against Australia that he was probably lacking a bit of pace for international level. Someone like Watson currently makes more mistakes than Goode but also has plenty more improvement in him.

Still think Goode would have made a decent international fly half, but I guess there was too much competition at Sarries for that.

beshocked wrote:Poor Goode - the most hated full back in the country. People forget we beat the ABs with him wearing the 15 shirt.

I would love it if he had a bit more pace but I don't think he's bad as long as you don't have inexperienced rookies playing with him or full backs on the wing.

True. He doesn't have the capabilities or the communication skills required to help out rookies. It's up to them or we're screwed.

thomh Brown is a good player, Ashton at 14 too.

Still believe Goode needs to work with Margot Wells like Brown - she's given a bit of extra oomph.

lostinwales depends if Farrell is out for the season - it would force Goode to play 10 as back up to Hodgson which isn't the worse thing in the world.

From what limited knowledge I have of Goode I can see the intelligence, good distribution, good positioning and a decent boot. Its the tackling optional and running technique I think of as 'jink jink smash' (with Goode getting smashed) that I can see as issues when you have more rounded players who are much more of a running threat.

Can't argue with that lostinwales -it's his lack of pace which lets him down to be honest. I don't think his tackling technique is too bad most of the time.

The jink jink works most of the time at club level but isn't particularly effective at international level.

If he had more pace he would be the complete package IMO. I wonder if that's something he can fix.

People dislike him because of his lack of pace - I guess that's a fair criticism but he does have positives I think are sometimes ignored.

Also Brown played so well in last year's 6 nations that any FB would look bad in comparison.

More of a truffle shuffle than jink jink

Lack of pace also equates to lack of power of course, so while his tackling technique may be fine it means he can't hit with real force.

Agreed Thomh which is what I feel lets him down.

Interesting that Pennell is obviously favoured by Lancaster. He did look good for Worcester last season but shining in a poor side is easier (read into it what you will).

Rumours Pennell will move to Leicester - any truth in that? At 27 he's still young enough for England.

I do think that Goode remains in contention. Ball in hand coming into the line he is the best option, and if you had real pace on the wings as cover, then he's a perfectly valid option.

As a broken field runner I'd put Watson number 1 and Foden number 2, but Brown is the most solid option defensively and probably the best allrounder.

Brown is the man in possession, but my instinct would be to give Watson a shot at some point in the 6 Nations.

Where did you see the Pennell rumour? I haven't heard it, though it would make sense with Tait leaving.

I think shining in a poor side can be easier for certain players; Turnover specialist 7s for example as they have more chance to do it if they're defending more often. I think Pennell's legitimately excellent though.

Interesting thing with Pennell as well is that, while he's not playing with a Premiership side right now, the world cup squad will have their entire 3 month pre-season with England. If he makes the 45 man training squad then he could have as good a chance as any.

sickofwendy wrote:More of a truffle shuffle than jink jink

The trouble is he does it every time, there is no doubt in the tacklers mind what he is going to do. If he just ran straight now and again, or stepped off his other foot, any sort of change he may hit a soft shoulder or something; his jink isn't big enough to get him fully away from the tackler; result at Int. level is he is smashed every time

whoa whoa Tait's leaving? Is he off to Toulon to be paid a fortune sitting on the bench?

Bayonne

It's easy to forget that Tait is younger than Brown and Foden.

Such as shame that his England career is now looking over due to the injuries and (understandable) move to France.

There was a time when he looked like the real deal at FB. More pace to burn than Brown or Foden, outstanding in the air and excellent hands and judgement when coming into the line in attack. When he's been fit recently he has still shown it in patches for Tigers.

Has Phil Vickery retired?

Vickery has years left in him yet

Watson and Nowell look good bets.

I'll throw another name In...Simon Hamersley if he continues to progress as he is. Lovely gliding runner.

Serioulsy think Foden was a step above Brown and feel that he should be given a crack again….let me guess, he's injured?

Gwlad wrote:Serioulsy think Foden was a step above Brown and feel that he should be given a crack again….let me guess, he's injured?

*sigh. Foden did his knee and he is out for the season. Foden is real quality and for a long time was England's best back, but no player in the 6N played better than Brown last 6N.

Not being an England fan I can confirm one thing. Brown is the only England back (particularly with the current injuries) that poses a real attacking threat, particularly as Ford is a way better distributor than Farrell and can put him into gaps. Brown has been England's best back for a while. There is no substitute for pace.

offload wrote:Not being an England fan I can confirm one thing.  Brown is the only England back (particularly with the current injuries) that poses a real attacking threat, particularly as Ford is a way better distributor than Farrell and can put him into gaps.  Brown has been England's best back for a while.  There is no substitute for pace.

Brown isnt fast. He is OK, but Foden and Tait both faster. He is, for some reason, incredibly hard to put down.

If you want speed we have May, who if he isnt the quickest guy you'll see in the 6N won't be far off

offload wrote: Brown is the only England back (particularly with the current injuries) that poses a real attacking threat,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUHuQe0tRNM

offload wrote:Not being an England fan I can confirm one thing.  Brown is the only England back (particularly with the current injuries) that poses a real attacking threat, particularly as Ford is a way better distributor than Farrell and can put him into gaps.  Brown has been England's best back for a while.  There is no substitute for pace.

If there's one thing Brown has never been accused of, it's possessing top-end pace. He's had to work very hard with a sprint coach in his spare time to get to the point where he's fast enough for an international back three player. Certainly not slow, but his pace is not a point of difference for him compared to Watson.

lostinwales wrote:No Foden is a blow, given what he offers and his experience. But we have Watson, Nowell and Pennell as other options, as well as ( ) Goode

Is Foden Broken?

Edit saw the post above.

TJ wrote:

lostinwales wrote:No Foden is a blow, given what he offers and his experience. But we have Watson, Nowell and Pennell as other options, as well as ( ) Goode

Is Foden Broken?

*sigh...

Yes. Badly. Out for the season and unlikely to make the RWC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30903697

edit - OK saw the post about reading above

Hmm, so Foden is out eh?

Damn, but at least we still have Phil vickery

LondonTiger wrote:Hmm, so Foden is out eh?

Damn, but at least we still have Phil vickery

Has he played much at full back?

He can do anything.

Where does the Phil Vickery thing come from? Did his retirement take a long time to seep into public consciousness or something?

thomh wrote:Where does the Phil Vickery thing come from? Did his retirement take a long time to seep into public consciousness or something?

Phil Vickery is retiring???

I'll take that as a yes.

Haha, thomh you're not alone I've never understood it either

I'm not sure I think it was that a couple of posters seemed surprised he had retired not long after it had been official and was all over the boards, and somehow it then took off.

Did somebody suggest Homer for England?!?! What!!!!!

From the AP, Tait is the form option, he's been excellent of late. I'm not too sure if I'd be happy with Nowell or Watson, both have basic issues at FB.

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/featured-post/20818/nick-abendanon-still-hopes-for-an-england-recall/

Rugby Paper says Lancaster asked Abendanon to stay in England because he was back in with a chance of selection. Abendanon says he asked for a spot on the NZ tour but Lancaster - understandably - couldn't promise him that. He says in the interview that he feels a bit let down by England after being overlooked for most of his career.

On the OP, yes, it does concern me a bit about Brown being our only real option that has played at 15 in the team, other than Goode (and he's been out of the team for a while). I would quite like Brown to be subbed off against Italy, with Watson moving across and Joseph to wing, Burrell to 13 and Twelvetrees on. At least, if things are going well and we aren't injured. Just to give him a run and see how things go.