Leicester Tigers Thread 2014/15 (+ Squad updates for 2015/16) Part 2

[Welly]

First topic message reminder :

Current Tables Positions:
AP: 3rd Losing SF to Bath
CC: Out (Group Stage)
LV: Out (Semi Final)
A League: 4th Northern Conference.
AP Sevens:
Academy AP U18 League: 2nd Northern Conference beating Bath on finals day to finish 3rd overall.

Next Game: V Argetnina (Welford road) 5th/6th September Time: TBD.

Senior Squad 2014/15: (Leaving), (Signed new deal) (Retiring)
Coaches: Cockerill (DOR), Blaze (Ass. Forwards), Blake (Defence + Skills Coach), Murphy (Ass.Backs)
1/3) Ayerza, Balmain, Bristow, Brugnara, Cole, Mulipola, Pasquali, Rizzo
2) T.Youngs, Ghiraldini, Briggs, Thacker
4/5) Deacon, De Chaves, Kitchener, Parling, Peterson, Price, Slater, Thorn, Whetton
6/7/8) Barbieri, Crane, Croft, Gibson, Pearce, Salvi
9) Harrison, Mele, Youngs
10) Burns, Williams
12/13) Allen, Bai, Hepetema, Loamanu, Pohe, Roberts, Smith, Tuilagi
11/14) Benjamin, Camacho, Goneva, Hamilton, Scully, Thompstone
15) Bell, Morris, Tait

2014/15 Development Squad: Oliver Bryant, George Catchpole, Jake Farnworth, Tom Hudson, Ed Milne, Will Owen, Aniseko Sio, George Tresidder, Rhys Williams.

2015/16 Senior Squad ATM: (New Signings)
Coaches: Cockerill (DOR), Mauger (HC), Hansen (Defence + Skills Coach), Blaze (Ass. Forwards), Murphy (Ass. Backs)
1/3) Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara, Cole, Mulipola, Pasquali, Rizzo
2) Youngs, Ghiraldini, Bateman, Thacker
4/5) De Chaves, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
6/7/8) Crane, Croft, Fonua, McCaffrey, O'Connor, Pearce, Williams
9) Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
10) Burns, Williams
12/13) Allen, Bai, Loamanu, Roberts, Smith, Tuilagi
11/14) Benjamin, Betham, Camacho, Goneva, Thompstone
15) Bell, Morris, Tait

2015/16 Development Squad: N/A

New Deals 2014/14
Dan Cole (Long term)
Marcos Ayerza (3 years)
Tom Youngs (Long Term)
Owen Williams
Graham Kitchener
Fraser Balmain
Tiziano Pasquali
Harry Thacker
Riccardo Brugnara
Sam Harrison
Tom Croft
Niall Morris
Seb De Cheves
Mathew Tait
Niall Morris

Out Of Contract
Roberts
Camacho
Bell
Smith


Transfers in 2014/15:
Brad Thorn (Highlanders)
Tommy Bell (Jersey)
Jack Roberts (Rotherham Titans)
Aaron Mauger (Canterbury Crusaders)
Jack Whetton (ACT Brumbies)
Greg Peterson (Manly)

2015/16
Greg Bateman (Exeter)
Mike Williams (Warriors)
Mike Fitzgerald (Chiefs)
Opeti Fonua (Welsh)
Brendon O'Connor (Blues)
Peter Betham (NSW Waratahs)
Lachlan McCaffrey (London Welsh)
Jono Kitto (Bay of Plenty + Cheifs Development Squad)

Transfers Out 2014/15:
Paul Burke (N/A)
Phil Blake (N/A)
Neil McCarthy (N?A)
Mathew Tait (Bayonne)
Tom Price (Scarlets)
Geoff Parling (Exeter)
Neil Briggs (Sale)
Julien Salvi (Exeter)
Pohe (USC)
Brad Thorn (Retirement)
Peterson (Glasgow)
Hamilton (Coventry)
Bristow (Wasps)
R.Williams (?)
Whetton
Hepetema


Rumours:
IN
Matt Todd -------> Leicester
Francois Hougaard ----> Leicester, Exeter Chiefs.
Maxime Mermoz ------> Leicester
Burrow ----------------> Leicester

Out
Allen (Retirement)
Manu (Toulouse, Saracens, Racing)
 

[Welly]

So what teams would you guys go for the next 2 weeks?

I would go with:
Against Falcons
1) Ayerza, 2) Youngs, 3) Mulipola
4) Thorn, 5) Parling
6) Croft, 7) Salvi (If fit)/Gibson, 8) Crane
9) Harrison, 10) Burns
12) Bai, 13) Goneva
11) Thompstone, 14) Scully, 15) Tait

Bench: 16) Leo, 17) Rizzo, 18) Balmain, 19) De Cheves, 20) Gibson/Pearce, 21) Mele, 22) Roberts/Catchpole/Loamanu, 23) Morris

Then for the LV cup Semi
1) Rizzo, 2) Briggs, 3) Balmain
4) De Cheves (C), 5) Peterson
6) Whetton 7) Gibson 8)  Pearce
9) Mele, 10) Bryant
12) Roberts, 13) Catchpole
11) Morris, 14) Benjamin, 15) Bell

16) Thacker, 17) Bristow, 18) Pas, 19) Price, 20) Milne (Should be fit), 21) Harrison, 22) C.Thacker, 23) Loamanu

Although IF Bryant is in the England squad we will be very shot for 10.

Who is the current 10 for the academy Worth?
Exeter being in the same place as us will prob go with the more LV cup looking team as well.

[formerly known as Sam]

Isn't Hargreaves the academy 10 he's just got back from injury hasn't he?

I'd go with Thacker over Briggs but otherwise it looks good though Loamano could use a start to get match fitness.

[Welly]

Is Hargreaves fit now? would be good timing.

Yeah Prob put Loamanu instead of Benjamin, but Loamanu versatility is a handy thing coming off the bench.

The U20's game means we could be missing Farnworth, Beckett, Owen and Bryant.

If Farnworth was available I would start Thacker @ 7 and have Farnworth on the bench.

[Welly]

Also looks like Leicester are going to invest in a desso pitch not for next season but season after. Also pitch is being made bigger.

Another thing is sounds like Gibson is having a change of heart going to saints, who after Leicester and Gibson had agreed not to announce the deal until end of season announced it anyway (bad play by saints).

[formerly known as Sam]

Tigers have been keen to get mating desso pitches at WR and the training park for a while. Wranglings have meant it's not happened and may not until they leave Oval Park.

Bryant limped off in the Ireland game. His call up was also a result of Jennings being required at Bath. Whilst he played well his kicking issues off the tee meant England had to play Mitchell at 9. The sooner Mauger gets hold of him and turns him into a 12 the better. His handling and passing is already top drawer.

[Guest]

So interesting (and slightly depressing) things going on around Salvi today.

The posters who went to the open forum reported that Cockerill had said that Salvi had an offer from the club and it was up to him whether or not he wanted to stay.  Then a mysterious user called 'SuperAgent' popped up for the first time in 4 years to fish for more info, particularly trying to get a direct quote that Leicester had an open offer for Jules.

And today we have this.

My agent and I have been informed by various fans who attended the ‘Fans Forum’ on Wednesday 4 March that it was confirmed at the 'Fans Forum' by Richard Cockerill that a ‘best and final' offer from Leicester Tigers is presently on the table to me. One fan quoted Richard Cockerill as saying ‘’we hope he will sign it and stay but as things stand he’s leaving’’.

It seems both my agent and I were mistakenly under the impression that the offer of employment from Leicester Tigers had been withdrawn.

I hereby accept the offer of employment that is on the table and I look forward to furthering my career at the Leicester Tigers. #tigersfamily @leicestertigers

[formerly known as Sam]

Well if he is now staying that's great news.

[formerly known as Sam]

According to Cohen the deal is far from agreed. Sounds like the club are playing hard ball. We could do with two sevens. Salvi on a two year deal whilst Owen comes through is a good idea and would allow Jules to I've to France at 31 leaving us with O'Connor at 27/28 and Owen at 22. Good position to be in with our open sides.

All looks a bit amateur hour at the minute though.

[Welly]

Croft suspected dislocated shoulder.

Potentially his last game for Leicester, Hopefully not.

[formerly known as Sam]

I wouldn't blame him for the playing the RWC (if fit) and then cashing in with a French contract. Fit and in form then there are few better blind sides but injuries meant we haven't really seen that in a while. I can't see us offering him the deal he wants wwith his injury record and international commitments. A French deal would top up his pension in case early retirement is thrust upon him.

[Welly]

Morris took a bang to the head and Roberts was being carried off by a staff member struggling to walk with crutches.

[formerly known as Sam]

Thinking about it Croft doesn't fit into the mould of the blind sides we're looking at for next season either. Pack for next season;

1. Ayerza / Rizzo
2. Youngs / Ghrildini
3. Cole / Mulipola
4. Slater / Williams
5. Kitchener / De Chaves
6. Pearce / ?
7. O'Connor / ?
8. Crane / Fonua

Futures of Barbieri, Salvi and Croft all up in the air. McKenzie is supposed to be coming in from NZ so he'll cover lock and 6. He'd fit in to the make up of the squad more than say Croft as we look to beef up. Beckett who's coming through would very much fit in to the mould of the sixes we're looking at as well.

[Welly]

Wouldn't be surprised if Williams features at 6 plays there quite often.

Imo if Fitzgerald comes from the Chiefs we are 1 flanker short of a full forward squad.

[formerly known as Sam]

If Salvi goes then we are definitely short of an open side.

McKenzie or Fitzgerald as his name actually is (my bad) or similar is required to flesh out the options at lock and 6. Whetton offers similar and I wouldn't be surprised if he was kept on as well. Williams plays the same game at 6 or lock I think he'll be unleashed at 6 during the more physical games when we are playing the likes of Sarries or inevitably Ulster in Europe otherwise he'll be Slater's understudy.

[Welly]

Yeh imagine a heavyweight aggressive power pack of

1) Ayerza, 2)Youngs, 3) Cole
4) Slater, 5) Fitzgerald
6) Williams 7) ? 8) Fonua

[formerly known as Sam]

Well O'Connor will be at 7. He's bigger than Salvi, bit more like Wood but a few inches shorter. Kitch at 19 stone is probably bigger than Fitzgerald as well. It's that back row that should make a difference next season. If we retain Salvi then it's;

6. Williams or Pearce - Saffa born big hitting aggression or 19 stone mobile ball carrying beast
7. O'Connor or Salvi - both like to meddle at the breakdown Brendan seems to be far more confrontational whilst Salvi is a tackling machine
8. Crane or Fonua - the diesel engine that is Crane will go every second of the 80 even with limbs hanging off or the explosive physicality of the 20 odd stone man mountain.

Sadly I don't see Croft fitting in there.

[formerly known as Sam]

Strong team for the LV semi on Sunday.

Rizzo Thacker Balmain
Thorn De Chaves
Whetton Pearce Barbieri
Mele Bell
Loamano Catchpole
Benjamin Scully Smith

[Welly]

Great to see Loamanu start.

Shame so many younger players are out though. Injured or on U20 duty.

Have a decent bench as well
Bristow, Briggs, Logo
Price, Salvi
Harrison, Hepetema, Thompstone.

[LondonTiger]

CHIEFS SIDE TO FACE LEICESTER TIGERS
15 Max Bodilly 14 Fetu’u Vainikolo 13 Adam Hughes 12 Sireli Naqelevuki 11 Tom James 10 Ceri Sweeney (capt) 9 Haydn Thomas 1 Brett Sturgess 2 Elvis Taione 3 Moray Low 4 Mitch Lees 5 Jerry Sexton 6 Ben White 7 Sam Simmonds 8 Kai Horstmann
16 Greg Bateman 17 Carl Rimmer 18 Alex Brown 19 Ed Holmes 20 Joel Conlon 21 Dave Lewis 22 Gareth Steenson 23 Tom Hendrickson

[formerly known as Sam]

Teams have similar levels of experience. Should be a good game. A little worried that our creative hopes fall solely on the shoulder of Bell. Probably the right thing to rest Freddie but with Bryant's call up/injury we are a bit short.

[Welly]

Wasps fans seem to think bell was best @10.

I don't agree but haven't really seen him play there, did play U20

[formerly known as Sam]

I always thought he struggled with his game management. What he did with the ball he did well it just wasn't in the areas of the field we wanted it to be. I presume that's why Mele has been selected, will give us some tactical direction.

[Hood83]

Does this Pearce guy actually look any good? A big lump but can he actually carry and hit enough rucks?

[formerly known as Sam]

Pearce is a mobile monster. Nasty knee injury before he joined the club meant that it's taken a while for him to adapt but he can certainly smash everything going in attack and defence. Hasn't got the Jordan All Day Crane engine at the minute but hopefully that can be sorted when he's actually got for pre season. A player with a lot of potential.

[Welly]

Pearce has so much potential to be a beast @ 8 has great league hands looks for the offloads aggressive running style. From the defensive side of things he certainly hits the rucks and tackles very well and has in fact looked good at 6 when he played there, as said suffering from a long injury has set him back fitness wise ATM but the long preseason will help that.

[LondonTiger]

His fitness is improving and he is blowing less after action. Now it may be looking for offloads but I do wish he would not knock on so often when in contact.

[formerly known as Sam]

It's an experience thing. There's a big step up in intensity for him. I think post pre season we'll see him offering more reliability.

[formerly known as Sam]

Absolutely brainless. The sooner Whetton is packed off back to New Zealand the better, he's useless. Pearce to six and Salvi in at 7 with Barbieri moving to 8.

[Welly]

Shocking reffing IMO

[formerly known as Sam]

The ref is barely competent. It's a shame as well because it'd detracted from a decent game.

Tiger have only ourselves to blame. Even school boy teams operate better in the opposition 22. How many times did the forwards take the ball in on their own, if we were going nowhere why didn't we just put Bell in the hole and take 3? There was two or three ideal opportunities.

The clear out this summer can't come soon enough and there's a couple more I'd add. Finding a Deacon replacement is the number one priority as not one of our players policed the breakdown. The forwards, particularly the experienced players amongst them, should be ashamed of that performance today.

[Welly]

Hopefully Fitzgerald will be coming.

Agree RE the forwards, was so gust rainy watching out backs we did what should have been the hardwork in terms of getting into the 22 but then we just can't do anything.

Loamanu isn't a 12 I reckon if Roberts was fit it might have been different in terms of finishing.

[Welly]

Thought Bell looked good at 10 esp since we didn't have any forward power

[formerly known as Sam]

We needed a Bryant or a Bai at 12 to help mix up the creative output if the midfield. Catchpole doesn't pass and Loamano is there to truck it up. I guess Loamono needed the game time hence he played ahead of the dedicated 12 Hemptema, though he was anonymous off the bench.

I really am starting to worry about the leadership in the forwards we were rudderless today. Mele looks well out of sorts and none of the forwards seem to be taking control.

Mauger watching from the stands must have been wondering what he'd let himself in for.

[Welly]

Doubt it you compare leicester now to the leicester when he signed we have improved.

We are missing Slater the most IMO.

[formerly known as Sam]

Slater is the player we have missed the most all season. He carried us all the way to the AP semis last season.

The reason we've improved is the injury list has reduced. The error count is still embarrassingly high and the decision making at a school boy level. The sooner Mauger gets his miracle plan into action and we can clear some deadwood the better.

[Welly]

I think the players we have brought in (and linked to) suggest we are going back to having a more physical pack with the odd mobile player.

For example Williams style of play Is more aggressive esp in defence than Gibsons more mobile style add imo is something we have been lacking.

Hopefully we will have a big mean pack to supply Mauger backs with quicker and cleaner ball.

[BamBam]

Chaps, any idea when Ed Slater is likely to be back playing?

[Welly]

He said the AP Exe home game but apparently has aggravated it more so looks likly out for whole season (Maybe play offs if we make it).

[BamBam]

Ah fair enough, was hoping he would get enough of a run to be worth a look at in the England warm up games, but sounds unlikely

I reckon he'll be in the training squad though, so might still get a chance

[formerly known as Sam]

Ed is supposed to be back towards the end of the month. Whether he is match fit enough to push back into the team is a different story. If he and Manu could return that would be a massive boost.

Welly, if the backs play akin to Sunday for the rest of the season we might have a chance. They cut some nice lines and made breaks.

[yappysnap]

Just watched the game, what's going on with the crowd at Leicester? They were booing chiefs for long parts of the second half, especially after they scored the decisive try and then the conversion. Booing after the game too.

This isn't the first bit of nasty behaviour at Tigers either, with the Armitage incident and another I think too?

Has it always been this rough when they lose or is it a new thing with the bigger crowds?

[nathan]

Just watched the game, what's going on with the crowd at Leicester? They were booing chiefs for long parts of the second half, especially after they scored the decisive try and then the conversion. Booing after the game too.

This isn't the first bit of nasty behaviour at Tigers either, with the Armitage incident and another I think too?

Has it always been this rough when they lose or is it a new thing with the bigger crowds?

Since when has booing been rough and nasty? Can tell your a quins supporter lol

[formerly known as Sam]

I think the derision was aimed at the Tigers forwards. They were so naive and poor and only the young guys up front really stood up. The crowd's patience is wearing thin with some of the ineptitude and it's not the first time this season the fans have made their feelings clear.

[yappysnap]

Just watched the game, what's going on with the crowd at Leicester? They were booing chiefs for long parts of the second half, especially after they scored the decisive try and then the conversion. Booing after the game too.

This isn't the first bit of nasty behaviour at Tigers either, with the Armitage incident and another I think too?

Has it always been this rough when they lose or is it a new thing with the bigger crowds?

Since when has booing been rough and nasty? Can tell your a quins supporter lol

We're far too polite for that. All we do it quietly tut while sipping our champagne

[Welly]

Confirmed signings

Greg bateman Hooker from Exeter
Mike Fitzgerald Lock from Chiefs

Both very good signings IMO.

[formerly known as Sam]

Reinforcements in the right areas. Fitzgerald can play 6 as well.

With another hooker in is that Thacker to 7 next season?

[king_carlos]

I aware that I've done this a few times so please bear with me! Just think it's good to have a look at the squad as a whole to see how it's progressing for next season.

Prop - Ayerza, Cole, Mulipola, Balmain, Rizzo, Bristow, Pasquali, Brugnara

Hooker - Youngs, Ghirildini, Bateman, Farnworth?

Lock - Slater, Kitchener, De Chaves, Fitzgerald

Flanker - O'Connor, Williams, Thacker?, Beckett?, Owen?

Number 8 - Crane, Fonau, Pearce

Scrum half - Youngs, Harrison, Mele

Fly half - Williams, Burns

Centre - Tuilagi, Allen, Bai, Roberts, Smith, Loamanu, Catchpole?, Hepetema?, Pohe?

Wing - Goneva, Benjamin, Thompstone, Camacho, Betham

Full back - Bell, Morris

Flanker situation is still completely up in the air with Croft and Salvi unknowns. Plus the possibility of Thacker shifting there, something I'd be in favour of as it offers a clearer route to 1st team game time for him.

If Mike Williams is mainly competing for the 6 shirt then we could do with another squad player in the second row - perhaps Peterson resigning?

Personally I'd also like to see one or both of Loamanu and Hepetema moved on with a big signing in the centre. Then make use of Roberts and Catchpole/Pohe for cover and development.

Whilst Bai hasn't blown me away by any means having a player of that experience and versatility for a RWC year could be very helpful. From what I've heard he's still contracted for next season anyway.

Pennell at full back would be a fantastic acquisition as well.

[formerly known as Sam]

I think Bai and Loamano are both under contract for next season anyway. Hempetema is all out of chances I think and we have younger, cheaper and less injury prone centres available. Our options are pretty good;

Firsts/seconds/third

1. Ayerza, Rizzo, Bristow (with Brungara and Sio as well)
2. Youngs, Ghilrildini, Bateman
3. Cole, Mulipola, Balmain
4. Slater, Fitzgerald, ?
5. Kitchener, De Chases, Makeysiw (sp?)
6. Williams, Pearce, Beckett
7. O'Connor, Thacker, Owen
8. Crane, Fonua, Milne
9. Youngs, Harrison, Mele
10. Burns, Williams, Bryant
11. Thompstone, Goneva, Benjamin
12. Allen, Bai, Roberts
13. Manu, Loamano, Catchpole
14. Betham, Camacho, Smith
15. Morris, Bell, ?

Pohe is probably off with Hempetema. We're looking pretty good if the centres can ever remain fit. A full back and another lock/flanker and we're about done. We've got a lot of talented youngsters that I wouldn't like to see shunted to far away from the first team.

[Welly]

Wouldn't be surprised if Smith or Camacho are released.

Also doubt Beckett and Maksymiw will be given a senior team contract when they have yet to turn 20 at the start of season, both will be moved up into the development squad as both out currently in the academy.

Can also see Milne staying another year in the Devlopment squad and being loaned to a championship team hopefully being able to play most of the LV games at least this time, also we seem to keep our development players in there for about 2 years.

I could see us signing a flanker (hopefully a starter quality), 12 IMO I can see Mauger wanting to bring in a 12 of his choosing, 15 starter and also a winger if Smith and/or Camacho go.

Cap wise we have replaced so far:
Gibson ----> Williams (prob same in terms of cap)
Deacon ----> Fitzgerald (Fitzgerald will be more)
Salvi ------> O'Connor ( I reckon Salvi on his last deal would be more)
Barbieri ---> Fonua ( From what I have heard, I reckon Fonua might be slightly more but not by much)
Briggs ----> Bateman (IMO Bateman will be cheaper as hasn't play much AP rugby)


Would leave us with cap spare potentially if certain players go
Parling
Tait
Croft (?)
Smith (?)
Camacho (?)
Hepetema (?)
Price (?)
Pohe (?)

IMO we should be able to get 3 starters from that cap IMO.

Esp since Croft and Parling where highly sorted after when there contract where up and would be on top dollar (heard Parling and Croft might have been on around 300K plus each)

[formerly known as Sam]

200k each plus maybe but 300k plus would be huge considering the cap restrictions. Then again who knows. I would prefer an NFL cap system where teams have to publicly declare the make up of their cap but there you go.

I can't see Smith being released. He's a great squad player whose loyalty is unquestionable. Over the years he's covered the back line except 10. Camacho I'd release in a second but I think the management like him.

Becket, Milne etc I'd like to see us use to flesh out the squad. Used during the LV and at most cover the bench during the AP international periods. They've performed well so far and if they are filling out the squad depth the last few recruitments we make can be of higher value as we're not looking for squad players as well. We're not looking to be overloaded with internationals for next season as it stands.

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