Mikkel Kessler announces retirement

First topic message reminder :

Kessler has today announced his retirement from boxing
What are your thoughts on him as a fighter and what he acheived?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Considering how quite a few pundits gave a slow working...43 year old Hopkins the Calzaghe fight.........and Jones decked him..

I'd love to see a tail end Calzaghe fairly easily beat Froch...........

Hopkins is smarter than froch and a forearm smash will probably drop anyone Joe is clever has fast hands and can fight at full tilt for the entirety of a fight. Froch for all his willpower cannot match him

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Considering how quite a few pundits gave a slow working...43 year old Hopkins the Calzaghe fight.........and Jones decked him..

I'd love to see a tail end Calzaghe fairly easily beat Froch...........

Give that "styles make fights" (and you do keep telling us that don't you) it's pretty easy to see Calzaghe mugging off the one dimensional Froch.

High work-rate? Check.
Chin/recovery? Check.
Stamina to go full distance? Check.

Yeh, JC didn't have any of the tools to beat Froch.......because he struggled with a guy of almost 100% opposite style

I picked Calzaghe to beat Froch...........

Are you stupid !!.........But not at 36........Just as I'd pick a young Mayweather to beat Khan...

TopHat24/7 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Considering how quite a few pundits gave a slow working...43 year old Hopkins the Calzaghe fight.........and Jones decked him..

I'd love to see a tail end Calzaghe fairly easily beat Froch...........

Give that "styles make fights" (and you do keep telling us that don't you) it's pretty easy to see Calzaghe mugging off the one dimensional Froch.

High work-rate? Check.
Chin/recovery? Check.
Stamina to go full distance? Check.

Yeh, JC didn't have any of the tools to beat Froch.......because he struggled with a guy of almost 100% opposite style

You forgot boxing ability...the one area Calzaghe trumps Froch by some considerable distance and THAT'S why Calzaghe beats Froch

We are talking about a 36 year old here............FFS............

If work rate = Pressure..............Azumah Nelson would never have won a fight !!...

Azumah Nelson was a great Feather/Superfeather by the way Dave and Toppy !!

Whereas "effort x results = work"

Doesn't matter how hard you work if you don't have an end product. Froch is too crude to have any significant effect against Calzaghe who even at that age would be too ring smart. He was able to adapt against a better fighter in Kessler and therefore I'd back him to do the same against Froch.

I see you've gone and got that Jeff Lacy thread locked.....

Shame on you Dave !!..

Guys, Duran beat Leonard first time out - get on the fence and admit that styles sometimes give certain guys huge trouble. Froch could have well marched through Joe's pitter patter stuff and really made life uncomfortable for him to say the least.

Coxy001 wrote:Guys, Duran beat Leonard first time out

Because Leonard brawled with him......

What a stupid example that is........

If you'd have said Robbo-Turpin...Ali -Norton..........that might be different....

A 35 year old jc beat a 26 year old unbeaten Kessler more convincingly than froch managed in 2 goes. You can argue when Kessler's prime was and Styles make fights etc, but I'd still have that Calzaghe as a fairly firm favourite against froch.

7lbs heavier the following year he looked his age against Americas favourite granddads and retired at the right time.

I don't think Robin Reid is anymore elusive than Froch. He was never known for his workrate... and I had him beating a prime Calzaghe..

It's in the eye of the beholder..........

Like I say Calzaghe in his prime..........Froch beats an old version..

Because Leonard brawled with him......

What a stupid example that is........

You complete muppet.

He lost because on that particular night Duran was the better guy. The point is valid, if Froch got rough and ready with Joe would the latter be able to resist getting involved? And you don't have a crystal ball so don't try and justify any sort of answer fatty.

Milky - you're playing a very dangerous game when picking apart the case for Froch based on a related opponent. Ali lost to Frazier, Frazier got stuffed by Foreman, Ali beats Foreman. Etc. Etc. Etc. And I'd back Joe to beat Froch, but as my earlier point to fatty - if Froch made him fight his fight then things could well be different.

Coxy001 wrote:

Because Leonard brawled with him......

What a stupid example that is........

You complete muppet.

He lost because on that particular night Duran was the better guy. The point is valid, if Froch got rough and ready with Joe would the latter be able to resist getting involved? And you don't have a crystal ball so don't try and justify any sort of answer fatty.

Milky - you're playing a very dangerous game when picking apart the case for Froch based on a related opponent. Ali lost to Frazier, Frazier got stuffed by Foreman, Ali beats Foreman. Etc. Etc. Etc. And I'd back Joe to beat Froch, but as my earlier point to fatty - if Froch made him fight his fight then things could well be different.

ing is Coxy, JC was fighting Kessler's fight and not looking good so adapted. What makes anyone think that Froch is going make Calzaghe fight in just one way? If Joe starts losing the fight, he makes it a boxing match and wins. If Froch was that good, he'd have made Ward fight his fight wouldn't he?

Coxy001 wrote:

Because Leonard brawled with him......

What a stupid example that is........

You complete muppet.

He lost because on that particular night Duran was the better guy. The point is valid, if Froch got rough and ready with Joe would the latter be able to resist getting involved? And you don't have a crystal ball so don't try and justify any sort of answer fatty.

Milky - you're playing a very dangerous game when picking apart the case for Froch based on a related opponent. Ali lost to Frazier, Frazier got stuffed by Foreman, Ali beats Foreman. Etc. Etc. Etc. And I'd back Joe to beat Froch, but as my earlier point to fatty - if Froch made him fight his fight then things could well be different.

Keep your cheap..first grade insults to yourself...........

I don't want to argue....You might sue me like Trottb !!.

Coxy, I'm one of the biggest proponents of styles making fights on here, hence the caveat in my post. Common opponents are a guide but with limitations... Better obviously if the common opponents were met close to primes and of similar styles. My argument was primarily that jc still had plenty in the tank at super middle at 35.

The Reid point is interesting truss and a fair one, as Reid is certainly someone who on paper, you'd give little chance to against Calzaghe. Strange fighter with an up and down career, Reid. Maybe he was distracted by his soft porn work. Which less face it, would be an understandable distraction.

If Froch was that good, he'd have made Ward fight his fight wouldn't he?

Ward is a different beast, JC could be hit as Kessler/Reid/Eubank/shot RJJ and co have all proved. Ward is on a different level and if you put him up against JC I'd be pretty confident he'd win a fairly easy UD.

Again, who would've thought Leonard would've danced to Duran's tune in their first fight? JC was partial to a right good tear up and if he went in to boxing mode I'm not sure he'd stay there for long once Froch was jumping all over him again.

Perhaps Joe can come out of retirement and that's what Froch is waiting for! Don't rate JC as high as others, would back him every time against Froch but couldn't see him winning 100/100.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I picked Calzaghe to beat Froch...........

Are you stupid !!.........But not at 36........Just as I'd pick a young Mayweather to beat Khan...

Here we go again.........

Coxy001 wrote:Guys, Duran beat Leonard first time out - get on the fence and admit that styles sometimes give certain guys huge trouble. Froch could have well marched through Joe's pitter patter stuff and really made life uncomfortable for him to say the least.

And achieved what, exactly?

Those pitter patters would still have won rounds, where would Froch's rounds have come from??

DAVE667 wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:

Because Leonard brawled with him......

What a stupid example that is........

You complete muppet.

He lost because on that particular night Duran was the better guy. The point is valid, if Froch got rough and ready with Joe would the latter be able to resist getting involved? And you don't have a crystal ball so don't try and justify any sort of answer fatty.

Milky - you're playing a very dangerous game when picking apart the case for Froch based on a related opponent. Ali lost to Frazier, Frazier got stuffed by Foreman, Ali beats Foreman. Etc. Etc. Etc. And I'd back Joe to beat Froch, but as my earlier point to fatty - if Froch made him fight his fight then things could well be different.

ing is Coxy, JC was fighting Kessler's fight and not looking good so adapted. What makes anyone think that Froch is going make Calzaghe fight in just one way? If Joe starts losing the fight, he makes it a boxing match and wins. If Froch was that good, he'd have made Ward fight his fight wouldn't he?

Anyone would think Froch was a Poor Man's Chuvalo reading your post...

I'd pick Ward to beat Calzaghe..............Wouldn't you !!

Ward's definitely better in almost every category bar willingness to actually get in the f*cking ring

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:Guys, Duran beat Leonard first time out - get on the fence and admit that styles sometimes give certain guys huge trouble. Froch could have well marched through Joe's pitter patter stuff and really made life uncomfortable for him to say the least.

And achieved what, exactly?

Those pitter patters would still have won rounds, where would Froch's rounds have come from??

You can win a fight by knockout as well by the way Toppie...

Maidana took rounds off FMJ, Froch took rounds off Ward, Duran took a lot off Leonard... No one fighter is ever immune from getting dragged in to a style of fight they wouldn't necessarily fight, even if it isn't for every minute of every round.

Coxy001 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:Guys, Duran beat Leonard first time out - get on the fence and admit that styles sometimes give certain guys huge trouble. Froch could have well marched through Joe's pitter patter stuff and really made life uncomfortable for him to say the least.

And achieved what, exactly?

Those pitter patters would still have won rounds, where would Froch's rounds have come from??

You can win a fight by knockout as well by the way Toppie...

Maidana took rounds off FMJ, Froch took rounds off Ward, Duran took a lot off Leonard... No one fighter is ever immune from getting dragged in to a style of fight they wouldn't necessarily fight, even if it isn't for every minute of every round.

You can indeed, and Froch has done very well in his career out of winning fights by ko which he was otherwise losing, but those were against guys with the chins or staminas to hold out. Ergo not something to apply to JC.

Not saying Froch wouldn't take rounds, or that in 10 fights he wouldn't win a couple, but overall & on average I'd see it coming out something like 116-112.

As has been said, I'd pick any version of Calzaghe to beat Froch. I just think he'd find a way, no matter what.

I go back and forth with Ward and Calzaghe.

I'd pick ward to beat calzaghe if i had to, but its not a fight i'd bet on. He's clearly a very talented fighter with a very impressive record, but he made his name off the back of the kessler and froch wins. He hasn't beaten anyone that calzaghe wouldn't have beaten, nor has he fought anyone like calzaghe. And, Unlike calzaghe, who's suffered several flash knockdowns but never been seriously hurt, he has also been badly hurt in a fight.

He's not this unbeatable beast just because he outboxed froch... taylor did that, groves did that, dirrell did that, they just didn't have the stamina/nous/referees/judges to see the job through. Its not that i don't rate ward... of course I do, I just think he seems to be treated as superman.  i'd just like to see him actually fight somebody, and preferably someone who might give him a fight. Andre Dirrell would have been interesting stylistically, golovkin would be a fight the world would love to see...kovalev and stevenson aren't really any bigger than him.

Beat that lot, and I'll salivate with the rest of you... until then he's just a workshy, smug t*sser!