The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

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Really inspite of the fact you ran away with the league? Spoilt you are

You getting over to Ireland for the GAA in Summer, Cari? Be a great experience. You could brag on the GAA boards then.

Nail on head about Fitz as a FB. I have no doubt Schmidt and Kidney has said it to him.

For Munster these are my list of criticisms:

- Failure to develop a viable backup Looshead or Inside Centre
- Very poor European campaign
- Ball retention skills from backrow
- The Scrum

red_stag wrote:Nail on head about Fitz as a FB. I have no doubt Schmidt and Kidney has said it to him.

For Munster these are my list of criticisms:

- Failure to develop a viable backup Looshead or Inside Centre
- Very poor European campaign
- Ball retention skills from backrow
- The Scrum

Points 1, 3 and 4 badly affected point 2.

Whats the word on the street regarding NIQs coming in? JDV back? Smith?

Gibson wrote:You getting over to Ireland for the GAA in Summer, Cari? Be a great experience. You could brag on the GAA boards then.

I hope so....we'll see. I'll be on a flight going somewhere...

Right I'm off to bed. G'night!

Nite pal.

Been in the cop shop with my naughty boys. Knackered now. Too much adrenaline to sleep. Will watch a bit of telly. Nos da anyhoo.

For next season we have:

1 Project Player - Peter Borlase (no idea why he is 4th choice tighthead)
4 Non Irish - Lifeimi Mafi, Doug Howlett, BJ Botha, Wian du Preez

We need to make a NIQ at centre. There really aren't that many established options out there. I suspect Jean de Villiers will return. However it could literally be any centre. Jaque Fourie, Wynand Olivier, Ma'a Nonu, Adam Ashley Cooper and Conrad Smith will come under scrutiny.

Evening all. Thin Lizzy - Jailbreak, live version on at home. Cuffin brilliant!!

Yeah, I'd say Kidney will have a group of around 40 players he'll look at in the Summer Tests. Best thing he can do is turn those into trial matches and get everyone sweating on their place.

...then pick the same 30 players he always intended to

In all seriousness, I would like to see those three involved with the squad. I just think it would be foolhardy to bring them barring injury. And if you asked me to name my Ireland XV for the first game of the 2012 Six Nations they'd all be there. Murray at 9, McFadden at 12, Jones at 15. Names we'll be getting used to seeing in our programmes when we let the IRFU fleece us for a day out.

It's not a question of the quality of the players, that's what I'm at pains to stress. It's a question of integrating them quickly into the team and the system. Ireland have just turned a corner with a big performance against England; now people want to break that group up on the eve of the World Cup? We need to keep the group together for an assault on the biggest prize of all. They can win it. Maybe that's just the delirious ramblings of me, a passionate fan. There's certainly nothing to suggest that from the outside and the shadow of the hubris of 2007 looms large, but we have so much more now. I don't expect us to win it but if everything goes right- why not us? They've been building towards this for three years and it hasn't always been easy, but their everest is ahead and they have the tools to conquer.

We will leave more quality players at home this year than we ever have. It's not a situation we're used to in Ireland, but we have 35-40 potential internationals whereas we used to have 15-20. So the amount of inter-provincial bitching and moaning when x or y is left out will be immense. Kidney will be slagged off for naming the squad regardless of who he names, but the squad he will get the most praise from the fans for picking is the squad I hope he doesn't pick.

Now is not the time to be going into our Everest with guys making their first steps in test-level rugby. Now is not the time to throw the previous three years of struggles away- because it's the lessons of those struggles that will stand to those players now, that has made this group stronger and better.

The ultimate test awaits; for many of the players, this will define their career. This will be their last World Cup- and I believe they will deliver, Ireland will deliver.

So I hope the fans will join me and say; give EXPERIENCE a chance! Believe.

Are you Gibbo in disguise?

Dancing in the moonlight - yeehaa!

Lizzy rock

No, I have the opposite point of view to Gibbo. I expect he'll laugh me up of the pub when he reads that

I just... feel passionately about my national team. I have strong opinions about it. If I'm wrong (certainly possible) then may the coaches do the opposite of everything I say!

I think that there is still plenty of time to include people. Murray for example could have 6 or 7 caps under his belt by the time we face Australia.

Thats the same amount the likes of Mike Ross or Donnacha Ryan has now. We have 5 games this summer and then we play the likes of USA and Russia before taking on the more difficult games.

Much of the team is already decided. In my opinion Healy, Best, Ross, O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Heaslip, D.Wallace Sexton, O'Driscoll and Bowe are all fairly nailed on as starters. Outside of that its pretty open to anyone playign well.

'So the amount of inter-provincial bitching and moaning when x or y is left out will be immense'

Personally I can't wait. Their was sweat, blood, tears, bad language, broken friendships and several super injunctions taken out on 606, when we debated the merits of our country's 6n squad. For the world cup squad someone might actually get hurt...

Staggy I'd be generous and throw Earls into your list as well.

Its a realistic post Notch - regarding the WC and after.

There is NO way he will thinker madly with it. It would be madness at this stage. He has a core of 25 set in stone. All the experienced ones from the 6-N will travel. I know that. Its the other 5 and the form they take, which will be interesting.

More factors:
* Will 1F make it?
* Will Flannery make it?
* Will Kearney be ready for it?
* Will Murphy be ready for it?
* Where is O Leary?
* Injuries in the Summer Tests.
* If given the chance in Summer, will McFadden make it? I think its too late for Jones and Murray. Unless we have injuries. Then maybe he will have to draft them in as backup.

Deccie may need to try those 3 out - just for insurance.

Ive No bloody idea what he'll do in Summer. Who has?

But Id hazard a guess there will be little or no change.

No Earls isn't. Fitz, McFadden and Trimble all offer real threats. Darcy is possibly on the list but I wasn't comfortable putting down his name,

Gibbo - I'll say it now. I don't want Flannery if he is "fit". He'll be 33 years old come the World Cup. Injured for last 18 months. Although he's better than Varley ability isn't enough to get you on the plane.

No, I think the chance is past. Murray would need to play every game to have that many caps. It could work, but at the same time it means not giving any gametime in the warm-ups to any other 9s. That's putting all your eggs in one unproven basket. Getting a test debut is pressure; being fast-tracked to help win* a World Cup after making your test debut just months before?

(*I know this 'winning' thing seems obnoxious (god forbid an Irish sports team does anything but go for a bit of craic and respectable mediocrity) but these guys should be going there with that stated aim. Not talking it up in the press like, but behind closed doors? Yes. Same for England, France etc. The 3N teams go without saying. Argentina went with that attitude in 2007 and look where it carried them.)

I think the tragedy may be that these young guys didn't get their chances at provincial level a year earlier. Jones due to injury, McFadden due to D'Arcy. Murray due to O'Leary. I feel the Munster and Leinster academies are now producing more talent than can be accommodated in their first teams in certain positions.

The guy who might travel is Jones, that all depends on the fitness of our fullbacks.

Good post Gibbo. Agreed. I wouldn't be betting the house on predicting what Kidney will do.

Notch, Kidney always does something no one is expecting. For example, Tomas O'Leary's first cap was against the ABs in Croke Park (and don't forget dropping Payne & Stringer for Hurley & O'Leary in an away HC quarter final).

Kidney would love having Jones & Murray in the squad because there will be so little analysis available on them.

I think Murphy is going to miss out for the FB position. Someone good in the air & a decent boot like Kearney and someone whose natural inclination is to run the ball like Jones. He has excellent defense as well.

I never said not to take any of our key experienced players. That's a 606 myth. I'm just debating over 2 positions. Hardly radical. Deccie has given me, by accident or design, most of the players I wanted in, in the 1st place - over the last 18 months.

You know who the extra 2 are. I believe they are key in helping to us make a SF.

Hound. That Lizzy DVD rocks man! Wake up yer neigbours.

Gibson wrote:
* If given the chance in Summer, will McFadden make it? I think its too late for Jones and Murray. Unless we have injuries. Then maybe he will have to draft them in as backup.

I've said this before; McFadden should get a chance at 12 in the warm-ups. 12 has been an unsatisfactory position for us in many ways. D'Arcy, Wallace, McFadden. My preference is for the first two, I've said as much above. But let Fergus have a shot at them. Let him put them under pressure to perform. I expect them to rise to that pressure.

I want to see the Sexton/Wallace combination again. It's a combination that I feel can hurt teams.

Sure its so hard to say. O'Leary is a real enigma. Why isn't he making the Munster bench and can Ireland now justify selecting him?

Actually my three 9s would be Reddan, Boss and Stringer but thats one for another day! Because I'm going to bed.

Can't wait for August now. G'night.

Gibbo has called for Ireland to adopt a strict U30 policy from 2012 onwards FACT!

Yes agree. As much as I admire him. De Fla looks like he's missed the plane. Where does that leave us? Best, Cronin and Varley? I pray Rory does not get injured. His form has been hot this season.

God I cant believe Im discussing this at 01:35.

But its a good discussion.

Lads. Lets set up a blog and get stuck in.

Please let it be said, Gibbo does NOT want radical change. Not now. That will come after the RWC. Notch is right. These lads have not had enough top-level experience yet, to shove them in now. Fate may allow it, but I dont want injuries to our key players. We need them all in the pot for selection.

Nos wotsits.

red_stag wrote:Sure its so hard to say. O'Leary is a real enigma. Why isn't he making the Munster bench and can Ireland now justify selecting him?

Coming back from an injury (eye I think - freak accident during the 6Ns). He had a back injury during the 6Ns. I know he was to come back, but he has had a bit of a setback I think. Probably not making the bench because he has been out for so long - and games such as the last couple are not matches to be starting him.

I don't quite understand why you wouldn't bring Flannery if he is fit and manages to last a couple of the warm up games.

Gibbo - (I'm sure Notch won't like this), but apart from England when Rory Best was outstanding, his form has been poor.

He gets the yips when under pressure. Thats why I'd want Fla there - his lineout throwing is just on another level to the rest of them.


EDIT: for the record, Eoin Reddan had 1 start against Argentina and 2 sub appearances against France & Scotland before starting in the RWC (leapfrogging Boss).

EDIT 2: Rob Kearney first start for Ireland was against Argentina. Then he subbed onto Italy and then started on the wing against France in Stade de France.

I think Rory Best has had a superb season. For me Best is guaranteed his place in our team. As to why I don't want Flannery, he is competely out of match practice, is extremely injury prone and I think lineout throwing aside may not offer as much as the others do.

red_stag wrote:I think Rory Best has had a superb season. For me Best is guaranteed his place in our team. As to why I don't want Flannery, he is competely out of match practice, is extremely injury prone and I think lineout throwing aside may not offer as much as the others do.

Stag - in the head-to-head between Munster & Ulster,* Fla was outstanding. Best has been very poor - he had a shocker against Leinster in the semi.

*His throwing was perfect.

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:I think Rory Best has had a superb season. For me Best is guaranteed his place in our team. As to why I don't want Flannery, he is competely out of match practice, is extremely injury prone and I think lineout throwing aside may not offer as much as the others do.

Stag - in the head-to-head between Munster & Ulster,* Fla was outstanding. Best has been very poor - he had a shocker against Leinster in the semi.

*His throwing was perfect.

EDIT: I know Best is going, but if Fla is fit he will be starting.

SinE, what are you talking about? Flannery made ONE appearance in the Magners League this year and it was off the bench. He also came off the bench in Europe once this year.

So in the last 9 months he hasn't managed a full game of rugby. We still don't know when he is back. Last year (2009-2010) he played 4 games for Munster. Thats 6 appearances in 2 years!!!

The guy is a walking injury who has built a cult status based on an accurate lineout throw. He was very good but I don't see him as necessary. In my mind its not even a debate as to him and Rory Best

Have to get this one in. Its a crying shame Strauss is not IQ for it. That boy is amazing.

I don't normally agree with "foreigners" taking Irish players places. In fact I have been vehemently against it for years. But he is exceptional. And he is young and is openly committed to the cause - like Boss was and still is. Shame. But he's in like Flynn next year.

Sin,
I have a huge gra for De Fla as a player. He gives you a hard-edge in the loose and his arrows are the best we have available. If he makes it though, I reckon he will play 2nd-fiddle to Best - who has really stepped up.

Night lads.

Gibson wrote:Have to get this one in. Its a crying shame Strauss is not IQ for it. That boy is amazing.

He's a great player but I don't agree with this project player shoite.

Gibson wrote:he is young and is openly committed to the cause - like Boss was and still is. Shame. But he's in like Flynn next year.

Didn't Boss have Irish family he wasn't residency. And has Strauss said he is planning to settle in Ireland etc? I will lose massive respect for IRFU if we cap a project player. I can't describe what an evil I think it is. It MUST be avoided at all costs.

red_stag wrote:SinE, what are you talking about? Flannery made ONE appearance in the Magners League this year and it was off the bench. He also came off the bench in Europe once this year.

So in the last 9 months he hasn't managed a full game of rugby. We still don't know when he is back. Last year (2009-2010) he played 4 games for Munster. Thats 6 appearances in 2 years!!!

The guy is a walking injury who has built a cult status based on an accurate lineout throw. He was very good but I don't see him as necessary. In my mind its not even a debate as to him and Rory Best

Fla slotted straight in as if he hadn't missed a game in that time. Perfect Darts and the scrum improved when he came on. He was up against Best and he looked the better player.

If Fla can stay fit, he will be start. Think I read somewhere that he might be sent to SA (along with Kearney!) to get some gametime in.

Fla is back running (according to his twitter/someone on munsterfans).

red_stag wrote:SinE, what are you talking about? Flannery made ONE appearance in the Magners League this year and it was off the bench. He also came off the bench in Europe once this year.

So in the last 9 months he hasn't managed a full game of rugby. We still don't know when he is back. Last year (2009-2010) he played 4 games for Munster. Thats 6 appearances in 2 years!!!

The guy is a walking injury who has built a cult status based on an accurate lineout throw. He was very good but I don't see him as necessary. In my mind its not even a debate as to him and Rory Best

Fla slotted straight in as if he hadn't missed a game in that time. Perfect Darts and the scrum improved when he came on. He was up against Best and he looked the better player.

If Fla can stay fit, he will be start. Think I read somewhere that he might be sent to SA (along with Kearney!) to get some gametime in.

Fla is back running (according to his twitter/someone on munsterfans).

Morning All

I'm spending this wet bank holiday watching the rest of my boxed set. I'm still in pain too so I'm better off indoors today I think

Massive discussion last night in here....Jebus you lot can talk for Ireland sometimes!

Mornin' all,

Cari, hope you're feeling well soon

they can certainly talk about Ireland that's for sure.

probably best to set up a topic for that at times so that Hobo can generate some interest over twitter on it...

Well I must be the only person in Ireland yesterday to get sun stroke. ridonkulous...

face looks so silly..

Micky - was it that hot in Ireland yesterday? Or did you go on a sunbed?

Yeah but Micky

Fla or Varley?

Wallace or McFadden?

Kearney or Jones?

Murphy or Boss?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/
http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport?mobile-redirect=false
http://sport.scotsman.com/rugby
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/
http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/rugby

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/headlines.cfm?c_id=80
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union

Missed the match, how did trinder do yesterday?

Glas a du wrote:Yeah but Micky

Fla or Varley?

Wallace or McFadden?

Kearney or Jones?

Murphy or Boss?

Fla
Mcfadden
Kearney
Boss

prop_lyd wrote:Missed the match, how did trinder do yesterday?

Scored a try in the opening minutes, dream start for him really. Then he was exposed in the lead-up for the Barbarians first score. Then he took a massive hit of someone, wasn't really seen for the rest of the game.

Morning all,

Really good debate last night. Enjoyed reading it.

Just so everyone knows, Hughie and I decided on Saturday that only us two can be optimistic about our chances at the World Cup.

Also, got the full England-BaaBaas game on YouTube. Awesome.

MBTGOG wrote:Morning all,

Really good debate last night. Enjoyed reading it.

Just so everyone knows, Hughie and I decided on Saturday that only us two can be optimistic about our chances at the World Cup.

Also, got the full England-BaaBaas game on YouTube. Awesome.

Is this the pulling world cup? The battle for the Rayburn Cup?

I'd take Flannery over Varley, but he needs to come through 80 minutes unscathed. Right now you simply couldn't pick Flannery. The onus is on him to prove his form and fitness. Luckily we have four games in August to look at him.

Everything I've written above applies to Ferris as well, although I'm more optimistic he'll be ready.

You're a gas man Glas.

Notch wrote:I'd take Flannery over Varley, but he needs to come through 80 minutes unscathed. Right now you simply couldn't pick Flannery. The onus is on him to prove his form and fitness. Luckily we have four games in August to look at him.

Everything I've written above applies to Ferris as well, although I'm more optimistic he'll be ready.

None of my business but I think Flannery is cooked in the head. If he came back he'd be kicking and tripping and all sorts as he'd have something to prove.