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Post by Pot Hale Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:03 pm

First topic message reminder :

After their defeat of Wales at the Millennium, England has gained sufficient points to overtake Ireland as they gained no points.

The bookies have adjusted their odds on the Six Nations with England now as favourites.

A sigh of relief has descended on the emerald isle.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:51 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by GunsGerms Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:34 pm

It happened a few times.

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Post by Pot Hale Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:24 pm

Oh I do love a good stat fight.
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Post by Pot Hale Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:42 pm

robbo277 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:England  1 1 2 1 3 4 4 3 2 2 3 1 2 2 2      33  2.2
Ireland   3 2 3 2 2 3 2 2 4 1 2 3 3 5 1      38  2.5
France    2 5 6 3 1 2 1 1 3 3 1 2 4 6 4      44  2.9
Wales     4 4 5 6 4 1 5 5 1 4 4 4 1 1 3      52  3.5
Scotland 5 3 4 4 6 5 3 6 5 5 5 5 6 3 5      70  4.7
Italy       6 6 6 5 5 6 6 4 6 6 6 6 5 4 6      83  5.5

Taking an average of finishing places across the 15 years of the 6N, England are ranked the highest.  Ireland take second spot.

Maybe I should revise the title...... England still in first place in the Six Nations......hmmmm

Ah but you fail to bear in mind the effect of standard deviation. I knew you would.

(NB: you have also harshly awarded 6 points for France's 2002 Grand Slam effort - their "true" average is 2.6)
(NB2: I have made no further effort to verify the data, as all the numbers add up to the total they should [(1+2+3+4+5+6)*15], so they represent a valid dataset, if not a true one).

England have a standard deviation of 1.014, Ireland, 1.060. So not only are we better than Ireland in average terms (that's better on average, not better at being average), we are also more consistent. Therefore we win this year's and last year's Six Nations. A DHL courier man will be round between 6am tomorrow and 19:33 on 7 May 2016 to collect our trophy. Alternatively, you may have Mary Robinson march across the grass of the Lansdowne Road pitch to hand it to Robshaw before the game this year, for old time's sake.

We normally say it depends what France team turns up, and their inconsistency is borne out by their standard deviation of 1.594 in finishing position, but Wales have an even higher standard deviation of 1.685, showing they are more erratic than France. I would therefore appreciate if we could collectively make "It depends what Wales team turn up" the go-to Six Nations cliché, and leave off the slightly-more-predictable France.

Scotland have a low standard deviation of 1.047. Couple this with their average, and their standard range is between 3.6th and 5.7th. Seeing as they have never finished 1st or 2nd in the Six Nations, this appears to be a valid model (allowing for nematodes), therefore proving the credibility of every other statement in this post. I will point to this indisputable fact should anyone disagree with me. On anything. Ever.

Finally, we have Italy. The worst average. But the least deviating, with a standard deviation of 0.743. If you want a model of how to achieve consistent results, I suggest following the Italian model of "lose a lot".

Questions?

Mr Robbo

Thanks for your highly informed feedback.   You're right regarding France, I omitted to change their initial rating of 6 back to 1 when I decided to simply value it by placing position.

The second point is that you have confirmed the objective of why I created the table - in order to counter the point made by another poster that England were second on average.  I rightfully claimed that honour for Ireland, and it is heartening to see an Englishman such as yourself confirming that view from an even higher statistical level of knowledge than I could ever attain (I was too busy making ink blot missiles whilst Narky Muttins was attempting to teach Average Sums in Mathematics class.)  2009 and 2014 are simply statistical blips.....

P.S. You can send "round" as many DHL vans as you want - but first it has to know where it's going.  
P.P.S.Ms Robinson, unlike her song title counterpart, discovered that Jesus didn't love her more than she thought, and left office in a huff some years ago.  I suspect our current president wouldn't be able to lift the cup - it being taller than him - so it's probably safer to leave it where it is for another year.....


Last edited by Pot Hale on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by profitius Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:21 pm

The current top 4 (NZ, SA, England and Ireland) were the top 4 in last summers JWC U20 tournament.

The next 4 in the world rankings (Australia, Wales, France and Argentina) were almost the 5 - 8 place finishers in last summers JWC. Wales, France and Australia were in there but Samoa was there instead of Argentina.
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Post by quinsforever Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:33 pm

lets hope RWC finishes the same way as J20 did Smile

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