Normal service has resumed...

First topic message reminder :

After their defeat of Wales at the Millennium, England has gained sufficient points to overtake Ireland as they gained no points.

The bookies have adjusted their odds on the Six Nations with England now as favourites.

A sigh of relief has descended on the emerald isle.

Hell why not eliminate all competition Quins, then England would probably win (not sure about a Slam though)

Favourites and up to 3rd place after one game? I'm out...

It is a good thing that a tournament isn't decided upon who the favourite are, eh?

Otherwise they could cancel the competition now and give everyone a rest before the RWC.

SecretFly wrote:

quinsforever wrote:
ireland won the 6N based on points difference.

True.  No fluke.  Points difference.  More points than the other contenders.

It's just your wording that needs adjustment, quins.  Yes, England were right in the fight to the very end.  Ireland weren't runaway winners....but Ireland won the competition based on the idea that they gained most points.

Rugby is always won on points difference.

For me a title win without a GS is a real anti-climax, especially if as in 2011 the title winners went into the last match gunning for a GS. Sneaking up on the rails as England could have done last year has some thrill - but would still have left us all bemoaning the late loss to France.

As it is, for me, Ireland are clear favourites for a GS. France are a disorganised rabble and the only other team with a win have to travel to Dublin.



As a side note, has quinsforerver's account been hacked? I do not remember him being so condescending and arrogant before.

I think QF is just in a mood for a bit of banter after an emotional win on friday no harm done (I hope).

Good win particularly in Cardiff but didnt think England were too impressive. Only team that raised their game IMO was Scotland. Dreadful defending from both England and Wales on the tries and lots of mistakes from both sides.

Is it just me or are some of the England players oversized?

What do you mean by oversized? I think overall England were about 6 and 1/2 out of ten but the 2nd half performance was very impressive.

From my perspective whatever competition is current is the most relevant.

The RWC is going to be a cracking tourney – but it’s ages away and the 6N is what we have at the minute.

I must disagree with Quins here – I like the ‘irregularity’ of the format and believe it adds to the uncertainty of the tournament.

And for me, a 6N Championship win – with no GS – even by a single point in points difference, is a big fat W and therefore I have no hesitation in congratulating Ireland as last years deserving winners, and definite favourites for this years tournament.

Yes, Ireland are favourites.

Deal with it…

James Hashel for example looks like he spends way to much time in the gym at the expense of working on rugby skills and technique. He is like a walking muscle.

LT don't be so precious. Just cause someone disagrees with you they are condescending and arrogant? PTA forum this is not.

U and hammer say the bookies odds are irrelevant and Ireland are clear favourites. I think that's funny. Usually the market price reflects the expectation of those with a view and a penchant for backing it. I gave u my reasons for saying England were bookies favourites after navigating the welsh banana skin.

Condescending and arrogant is more the behaviour of someone who thinks their opinion is so self-evidently the truth, that they don't bother responding directly, and only address counter-posters obliquely.

GunsGerms wrote:James Hashel for example looks like he spends way to much time in the gym at the expense of working on rugby skills and technique. He is like a walking muscle.

Apart from white post fever there wasnt anything wrong with his technique on Friday

England's pack was lighter than Wales

And our backs were significantly lighter at almost every position.

Haskell maybe looks bigger cause the last time in an England shirt he had list 10kg or something ridiculous like that with a virus during the AIs

GunsGerms wrote:James Hashel for example looks like he spends way to much time in the gym at the expense of working on rugby skills and technique. He is like a walking muscle.

He is huge. More noticable when he's on rugby club etc next to normal people. Pretty good technique though as have most of the pack now. Lancaster's policy has been to get forwards with good hands as well as the normal forward required skills.

I did laugh when he ran into the post, and everyone around me agreed that if anyone was going to run into a post it would be the Hask

Had a great game though so i'll forgive him

lostinwales wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:James Hashel for example looks like he spends way to much time in the gym at the expense of working on rugby skills and technique. He is like a walking muscle.

Apart from white post fever there wasnt anything wrong with his technique on Friday

Terrible tackling technique on Faletau which lead to the Wales try. He should have brought Faletau down.

LondonTiger wrote:Ireland most definitely still favourites.

Absolutely not, not favourites, never have been, never shoud be, no chance at all.....
"Just a small nation", "plucky underdogs", "Happy to be here", etc., etc.......

No one has a 100% tackling record all the time though Guns.

Biltong wrote:It is a good thing that a tournament isn't decided upon who the favourite are, eh?

Otherwise they could cancel the competition now and give everyone a rest before the RWC.

Or cancel the RWC as well and just give it to New Zealand saving everyone a lot of time and heartache...

GunsGerms wrote:James Hashel for example looks like he spends way to much time in the gym at the expense of working on rugby skills and technique. He is like a walking muscle.

I still reckon Healy would best him with the bench press. Biggest traps in the game.

Never the smartest of rugby players but can't fault his gameplay... England have been missing his type for a long time. Wood looks like he will struggle to get on the 30 man squad now. Croft for me is more versatile.

Guns yes bad defense by England for that try certainly. I blame nerves and not trusting the other defenders around. But faletau was lucky not to be pinged for being on one knee picking the ball up from in front of the second rows feet. They commented about that on scrum v so it must be true

Still think Wood will win his place back once fit (eventually), though I'm all for giving players an extended run.

Irish Londoner wrote:

Biltong wrote:It is a good thing that a tournament isn't decided upon who the favourite are, eh?

Otherwise they could cancel the competition now and give everyone a rest before the RWC.

Or cancel the RWC as well and just give it to New Zealand saving everyone a lot of time and heartache...

Yep

No 7&1/2 wrote:Still think Wood will win his place back once fit (eventually), though I'm all for giving players an extended run.

Wood doesn't offer enough of a ball carrying threat for me. Decent in the lineout but England seem to have that well covered at the moment and I think Croft is superior there anyhow... as well as offering a carrying threat.

Haskell, Robshaw and Morgan looks very well balanced to me albeit a little on the heavy side (very south african look to it).

I did laugh when he ran into the post, and everyone around me agreed that if anyone was going to run into a post it would be the Hask

Best tackle on the day was made by that post - stopped a certain try. I wonder if in future Gats will pick it - have it mounted on wheels and booled about the pitch as an Anti-Hask device.

No matter where he is on the pitch in relation to the post he would get an urge to DOMINATE it - might be enough to take his eye off the ball for a split second.

It's obvious that for the Welsh try  - 7 minutes into the game - he still hadn't got over his need to DOMINATE the tunnel - think about it, it's a long corridor into the womb-like safety and warmth of the dressing room - a Hask just cannot help DOMINATING such a tunnel, and the extended stay in such tunnel (it's our roof, we should be able to have it open when we like - so suffer you pommy dogs) must have been a sore trial for such a character.

LondonTiger wrote:For me a title win without a GS is a real anti-climax, especially if as in 2011 the title winners went into the last match gunning for a GS. Sneaking up on the rails as England could have done last year has some thrill - but would still have left us all bemoaning the late loss to France.

As it is, for me, Ireland are clear favourites for a GS. France are a disorganised rabble and the only other team with a win have to travel to Dublin.



As a side note, has quinsforerver's account been hacked? I do not remember him being so condescending and arrogant before.

Really?

I think Wood is just suffering with being the man in possession of the 6 shirt. A couple of quiet performances and we'll see Haskell being questioned as everyone is. I just think Wood is more consistent and offers a bit more all round. Have to say though I don't think it matters a great deal as I don't think there's a massive dip in quality.

TrailApe wrote:

I did laugh when he ran into the post, and everyone around me agreed that if anyone was going to run into a post it would be the Hask

Best tackle on the day was made by that post - stopped a certain try. I wonder if in future Gats will pick it - have it mounted on wheels and booled about the pitch as an Anti-Hask device.

No matter where he is on the pitch in relation to the post he would get an urge to DOMINATE it - might be enough to take his eye off the ball for a split second.

It's obvious that for the Welsh try  - 7 minutes into the game - he still hadn't got over his need to DOMINATE the tunnel - think about it, it's a long corridor into the womb-like safety and warmth of the dressing room - a Hask just cannot help DOMINATING such a tunnel, and the extended stay in such tunnel (it's our roof, we should be able to have it open when we like - so suffer you pommy dogs) must have been a sore trial for such a character.

Would love to see Haskell in a scrabble face-off with Mark Regan... anyone who broke the 2 letter word barrier would surely be judged the winner. Never has come across as the quickest of chaps.

Really impressed mind with his play. England's backrow has been too tame without him.

SecretFly wrote:This year I'm eliminating England from discussion of the 6N.  If we lose to them, it won't count and we'll probably go on and win the Slam easily from there - or at least the Six Nations title, with France second.

I love that logic Fly.

quinsforever wrote:Guns yes bad defense by England for that try certainly. I blame nerves and not trusting the other defenders around. But faletau was lucky not to be pinged for being on one knee picking the ball up from in front of the second rows feet. They commented about that on scrum v so it must be true

Yes Haskell was naive, he did not expect
a/ Felatau to cheat, and
b/ for the ref to miss it

so was not in correct position to tackle the cheater.
Jonny May got sucked in to the shambles too and missed his man.

Brilliant (cheated) pickup, offload and try though for Wales.

gregortree wrote:

SecretFly wrote:This year I'm eliminating England from discussion of the 6N.  If we lose to them, it won't count and we'll probably go on and win the Slam easily from there - or at least the Six Nations title, with France second.

I love that logic Fly.

Glad you approve . It's always best to just mentally delete a side from the 6N if you want a better opportunity of winning a Slam.

Good win for England vs Wales but let's not hype it up too much - good but need to move on now.

Wales focussed too much on mind games instead of getting on with the game IMO.

Also leaving on a quite clearly crocked player hampered their chances too (North). No surprise that Joseph shrugged him off for his try.

What has happened to Welsh fitness too? Looked bruised,battered and didn't seem to have much left in the tank at the end. Reminded me of the NZ game where Wales were out on their feet then.

Never looked like hitting England with a big right hook after their fortunate try (let's be honest it was - dominant England scrum, ball pops out for Faletau at a favourable angle who draws the man for a soft try).

England still need to win 4 more matches which will be easier said than done.

Italy - should be a comfortable win for England but cannot be too complacent.

Ireland in Ireland will be tough - after losing the last 3 games to England, they will be gunning for revenge, also they have a canny coach.

Scotland - Scotland looked like an improved side vs France, could upset Wales at Murrayfield and will feel more bullish than ever when going to Twickenham.

France - the French are the French - unpredictable and there is a lot of power in that French team. Should have probably beaten Scotland by more.

Thing with Wales is, people have been saying they're one-directional with a simple game plan since 2009. Guess what? They've won 2 championships in the 4 since that one. They haven't really chnged, just doing the same thing each time. And against the NH sides...it often works. They won their last championship after losing the first game, and looking pretty weak in it (although a stronger second half). And that included absolutely smashing England going for the slam.

wales have not looked like winning anything comparable since the scrum laws changed. no side in world rugby won more penalties at the scrum, and played the ball out of their own scrum less. it was a clear strategy and fair enough.

a significant strength of theirs has been blunted.

Hammerofthunor yes you right but unfortunately for Wales now I think other sides are improving - England look like a more dangerous side with more depth, Scotland have brought in an intelligent coach, ditto Ireland, France can only get better surely? Italy I guess haven't moved but it's not good for Wales to be in the same bracket as Italy.

England have now beaten Wales in the last two matches - home and away. The team has a fresh look at it with different options being available.

The Welsh side hasn't changed enough. A trip to Murrayfield now doesn't look like a guaranteed Welsh win, Scotland will be fancying their chances. Cotter has given this Scotland side - a fresh belief and confidence.

beshocked, I agree with you there. Other sides do appear to be improving.

quinsforever wrote:wales have not looked like winning anything comparable since the scrum laws changed. no side in world rugby won more penalties at the scrum, and played the ball out of their own scrum less. it was a clear strategy and fair enough.

a significant strength of theirs has been blunted.

ever since they lost the services of Walsh in fact

Ireland will probably have to wait to play England to potentially get the third place ranking back as even if we hammer France we probably wont gain enough points even though England presuming they beat Italy wont gain anything.

GunsGerms wrote:Ireland will probably have to wait to play England to potentially get the third place ranking back as even if we hammer France we probably wont gain enough points even though England presuming they beat Italy wont gain anything.

Correct. A +15 win against France would still not gain sufficient points.

However, that's fairly minor if not completely irrelevant at this stage. Just beating France is the objective - doesn't matter if it's only by a point.

GunsGerms wrote:Ireland will probably have to wait to play England to potentially get the third place ranking back as even if we hammer France we probably wont gain enough points even though England presuming they beat Italy wont gain anything.

Might be left to wait, I dunno, say six minutes.

gregortree wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Ireland will probably have to wait to play England to potentially get the third place ranking back as even if we hammer France we probably wont gain enough points even though England presuming they beat Italy wont gain anything.

Might be left to wait, I dunno, say six minutes.

Tres drole, Monsieur Guns.

Pot Hale wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Ireland will probably have to wait to play England to potentially get the third place ranking back as even if we hammer France we probably wont gain enough points even though England presuming they beat Italy wont gain anything.

Correct.   A +15 win against France would still not gain sufficient points.

However, that's fairly minor if not completely irrelevant at this stage.  Just beating France is the objective - doesn't matter if it's only by a point.

Agreed. This is arguably Ireland's most important game of the six nations. It is must win for obvious RWC implications.

Normal service has resumed indeed, 3rd place in the world and also back to 2nd place in 6 Nations rugby…

Since 2012 England have won week 1 and finished 2nd over all in every competition.

No reason this year will be any different.

Gwlad wrote:Normal service has resumed indeed, 3rd place in the world and also back to 2nd place in 6 Nations rugby…

Since 2012 England have won week 1 and finished 2nd over all in every competition.

No reason this year will be any different.

Last year the only game they lost was in Week 1. Still finished 2nd

So England are consistently the second best team in the 6 nations? Whereas other teams are only able to manage the odd season of success? Prefer that to consistently the 3rd or 4th best in the world. As long as we don't come [shudder] 5th.

HammerofThunor wrote:So England are consistently the second best team in the 6 nations? Whereas other teams are only able to manage the odd season of success?  Prefer that to consistently the 3rd or 4th best in the world. As long as we don't come [shudder] 5th.

You'd rather come 2nd than win. Why bother taking part at all then?

Gwlad wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:So England are consistently the second best team in the 6 nations? Whereas other teams are only able to manage the odd season of success?  Prefer that to consistently the 3rd or 4th best in the world. As long as we don't come [shudder] 5th.

You'd rather come 2nd than win. Why bother taking part at all then?

Ask Italy. Or Georgia in the World Cup. Or the Regions in the Champions Cup. You enter the competition to do as well as you can. I'd prefer to do consistently well than a one off win. I'd prefer to be consistently the best than second best but it's not the end of the world. As I said it's better than consistently being 3rd or 4th, like we were at our worst.

You d also have to consider the format of the 6 nations not necessarily giv ing you the best team. England have racked up enough points (but not enough points difference) to win the last 2 times so not that bad but would obviously still love the win this year!

Consistently 2nd best. Sounds just awesome.

Consistently finishing 2nd.