Ireland V France

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IRELAND v FRANCE
14 February 2015
KO: 17:00
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
AR1: Nigel Owens (WRU)
AR2: Stuart Berry (SARU)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

IRELAND

15 Rob Kearney
14 Tommy Bowe
13 Jared Payne
12 Robbie Henshaw
11 Simon Zebo
10 Johnny Sexton
9 Conor Murray

1 Jack McGrath
2 Rory Best
3 Mike Ross
4 Devin Toner
5 Paul O'Connell (c)
6 Peter O'Mahony
7 Sean O'Brien
8 Jamie Heaslip

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Cian Healy, 18 Martin Moore, 19 Iain Henderson, 20 Jordi Murphy, 21 Isaac Boss, 22 Ian Madigan, 23 Felix Jones

FRANCE

15 Scott Spedding
14 Yoann Huget
13 Mathieu Bastareaud
12 Wesley Fofana
11 Teddy Thomas
10 Camille Lopez
9 Rory Kockott

1 Eddy Ben Arous
2 Guilhem Guirado
3 Rabah Slimani
4 Pascal Papé
5 Yoann Maestri
6 Thierry Dusautoir (c)
7 Bernard Le Roux
8 Damien Chouly

16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Uini Atonio, 18 Vincent Debaty, 19 Romain Taofifenua, 20 Loann Goujon, 21 Morgan Parra, 22 Rémi Talès, 23 Rémi Lamerat

*****
This is an interesting battle, and very much a case of brains v brawn.
French flair is long gone, they now rely on the likes of Bastareaud and their pack of overweight lumps to get over the line.
Ireland are very much a team of robots, Joe gives instructions on how to dismantle a team like IKEA gives instructions on how to make a cupboard. With the right personnel in Sexton, SOB and the likes of Heaslip at the helm, they should be able to devour the French fatties like they're the last square of a Kinder Bueno.
All logic points to an Irish victory, but as so often happens the French defy logic.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Well with 9 makeshift fullbacks in the 23 God is clearly thinking about catching the ball.

He is going for fullbacks because they are generally all good at kicking and catching.

Whilst Huget and Dulin or Spedding defense is not too bad, Thomas dodgy defensive positionning can be exposed very easily specially by good kickers. At some point during the Scotland game, you could see Spedding having a strong argument with him regarding one those failures. Murray/Kearney/[insert irish N10 name here] will have a field day against him.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Well with 9 makeshift fullbacks in the 23 God is clearly thinking about catching the ball.

He is going for fullbacks because they are generally all good at kicking and catching.

'Generally'? Is that a dig at Luke Fitzgerald?

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Well with 9 makeshift fullbacks in the 23 God is clearly thinking about catching the ball.

He is going for fullbacks because they are generally all good at kicking and catching.

'Generally'? Is that a dig at Luke Fitzgerald?

No. Fitz is a good all-rounder. Just wondering what his fitness situation in bearing in mind no one would have been surprised if he started against Italy and then to see Earls as travelling sub whose fitness is definately questionable.

I think this game is too close to call. It all depends on which French team turns up, France did not score a try last week against Scotland and Scotland very nearly won.

I think Ireland will be more ruthless than Scotland. But still think it too close a call.

France are either going to destroy us to death with the bludgeon of Basteraud and the big saffer fella and the wizardry of Huget and Thomas or we'll Schmidtball them straight back to the champs Elysee with a tactical masterclass of leeching and can opening.

majesticimperialman wrote:I think this game is too close to call. It all depends on which French team turns up, France did not score a try last week against Scotland and Scotland very nearly won.

I think Ireland will be more ruthless than Scotland. But still think it too close a call.

I know it's not universally accepted but I felt both sides (Scotland and France) looked sharp and perhaps a basic 'cancelling out' of each other's threat was going on in the scoring department.

So I'm more impressed by the little I've seen (80 minutes) of France this year than I've been for a number of years in this contest. But France of course can decide to implode too so you can't second guess what's going to happen based on one game - or even five!.

I just thought both sides looked much more resolute and sharper than auld slodgetastic Ireland of the late yawn wins....

Ireland Vs France aka "well drilled team with plenty of game plans" Vs "no game plan/no set plays team"

wonder how this will pan out!

in reality France are only strong on paper as they have not performed well for some time. PSA is certainly doing all of us a huge favour. Ireland are strong favourites and this is certainly not a 50/50 game. Of course France have some quality players, but they have consistently underperformed for some time and on that basis it would be a big surprise for them to pull out a win. If you compare the coaches then Ireland are winning big!

whocares wrote:Ireland Vs France aka "well drilled team with plenty of game plans" Vs "no game plan/no set plays team"

wonder how this will pan out!

France still probably think the Top 14 is more important though.

pretty sure the players representing france dont feel that way

french clubs owners probably, and many french club fans probably. players notsomuch.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Well with 9 makeshift fullbacks in the 23 God is clearly thinking about catching the ball.

He is going for fullbacks because they are generally all good at kicking and catching.

'Generally'? Is that a dig at Luke Fitzgerald?

No. Fitz is a good all-rounder. Just wondering what his fitness situation in bearing in mind no one would have been surprised if he started against Italy and then to see Earls as travelling sub whose fitness is definately questionable.

It's probably not worth running the ball in your own half at the moment in test rugby about 90% of the time so I'm sure the fact basically our entire back line are very comfortable kicking for territory is a factor.

whocares wrote:Ireland Vs France aka "well drilled team with plenty of game plans" Vs "no game plan/no set plays team"

wonder how this will pan out!

Yeah thats how I see it whocares, Between you and me I'm on the windup a bit - France look incredibly strong on paper, the strongest in the comp, but as a team they haven't come close to their potential in quite some time.

Mentally I think they are not right, against Scotland they started like a freight train but once Scotland took the game to them their self efficacy plummetted.

Player for play France should blow us off the park but I believe we are better drilled, better conditioned and mentally stronger and in rugby that counts for a lot over 80 min.

Sexton is key though - he is the catalyst for everything Ireland do in attack. Keatley did well but is a weak link as is Madigan at 10.

Beyond that I think the depth has been really impressive. There has been a lot of focus on Englands depth but if you consider some of the players we are missing it puts the Italy win in context and bodes well for the autumn:-

Sexton, Heaslip, O'Brien, Healy, Touhy, Trimble, Reddan, Jackson, Ruddock, Ryan, Olding, Foley, D Kearney all out - with Earls still finding fitness and still able to leave out the likes of McFadden, D'arcy, Gilroy, Cave, Marshall and Fitzgerald.

Guys like O'Donnell, McGrath and Murphy have come in and did well but when we get some of the big guns back I think we can get stronger - the key is just getting the results anywhich we can and staying in contention until the England game, when hopefully we'll be closer to full strength.

I know Rodders but you are right. The only way France could come close is if they are really up for this i.e. If they are wound and have something to prove and would play at 110% of their physical means. it can happen, almost happened last year against Ireland but I feel some sort of complacency after the Scotland win... Which almost always lead to mediocrity. I hope for some heavy rain in Dublin and a bit of luck. That could do too.

i reckon france will be very up for this one. if they can run ireland close, or even win, then that gives them a big boost for the RWC pool i think.

i dont think france are the most fluent side around, but if they are up for it then it is going to be some physical contest!

The news is; everyone in the Ireland squad trained fully, apart from Rory Best who is following the return to play concussion protocols. Personally I would put out a new back row! Henderson, O'Mahony and Heaslip. I am wary of France as I know if they do decide to play at full motivation they are physically extremely hard to handle. So I want to see the most heavyweight back row out there to stand up to them physically.

It could go south very quickly if France get a few early scores and get their tails up so I expect we will play similar to last week and just focus on continuity of play and controlling the ball without more risky moves that could lead to turnovers.

I hope Best is available, he really adds a lot in the scrums and around the park in the physical battle, but concussion isn't something to play with so we'll just wait and see...

Notch wrote:The news is; everyone in the Ireland squad trained fully, apart from Rory Best who is following the return to play concussion protocols. Personally I would put out a new back row! Henderson, O'Mahony and Heaslip. I am wary of France as I know if they do decide to play at full motivation they are physically extremely hard to handle. So I want to see the most heavyweight back row out there to stand up to them physically.

It could go south very quickly if France get a few early scores and get their tails up so I expect we will play similar to last week and just focus on continuity of play and controlling the ball without more risky moves that could lead to turnovers.

I hope Best is available, he really adds a lot in the scrums and around the park in the physical battle, but concussion isn't something to play with so we'll just wait and see...

I think most observers would suggest that we go for the most mobile backrow available and not take on France in the brutality stakes. How can you exclude O'Brien if that is your gameplan? I wouldn't be surprised to see O'Donnell retain the 7 jersey but I think it will be Murphy.

Don't think Best has fallen off at all in his play. Made a lot of good short carries on Saturday, was the usual nuisance at the breakdown and lineouts were very good. But..... Cronin is really puting him under pressure. The first scrum we had with himself and Moore on we drove Italy off the ball for the first time so it's hard to make the extra scrummaging ability argument. In contrast we got busted in the next scrum when t'other Cronin came on for McGrath. Gret to see S Cronins improvement and with Strauss coming back to form it's a great positin to be in.

Notch wrote:The news is; everyone in the Ireland squad trained fully, apart from Rory Best who is following the return to play concussion protocols. Personally I would put out a new back row! Henderson, O'Mahony and Heaslip. I am wary of France as I know if they do decide to play at full motivation they are physically extremely hard to handle. So I want to see the most heavyweight back row out there to stand up to them physically.

It could go south very quickly if France get a few early scores and get their tails up so I expect we will play similar to last week and just focus on continuity of play and controlling the ball without more risky moves that could lead to turnovers.

I hope Best is available, he really adds a lot in the scrums and around the park in the physical battle, but concussion isn't something to play with so we'll just wait and see...

Fair points - leaving aside enforced rest, Schmidt has to balance the benefits of bringing in "better" players against the continuity of those with time under their belts.

If Best is deemed unplayable, the back-ups of Cronin and Strauss isn't too shabby.

Henderson or O'Donnell at 7 is an interesting call, although I thought Henderson tends to play 6 when he puts a shift in the back row. O'Donnell enjoyed himself last week and is no doubt by scoring a try. Strong argument to keep him there and introduce O'Brien gradually. Or else vice versa - O'Brien to start and replace after 50 mins max with O'Donnell.

Heaslip should be fine coming back in at 8, he's only been off for a short time.

Sexton - don't think there is any choice - he has to start. Question is more who does Schmidt put on the bench - Keatley as the better 10, or Madigan because of better utility?

Depending on whether O'Brien starts might decide whether Healy starts as well - or vice versa. McGrath has been doing well and merits the continuity - unless the French front row starts mincing him early on.

Reddan is a straightforward bench replacement for Boss.

Dave Kearney might be one new returning injury too much, and Zebo seems to have picked up his tackling game. So probably as you were.

I don't think Henderson lacks mobility in any sense though. I just think O'Brien will miss the cut as being fit for 50 minutes won't be enough. Not playing last weekend really hurt him. Be interesting to see where he is this week.

Personally would like to see SOB start, with Murphy covering 7/8, Hendo covering Lock/6. Unlikely though, he admitted he wasn't nearly match fit after the Saxons game.

We need more ball winners on the ground, it became especially noticeable towards the end of the Italian game, when you'd expect someone to poach the ball or force a penalty (a la SOB v Clermont in Bordeaux), but nada. It's an area we have been lacking in since the departure of BOD (most turnovers in Six Nations history with 53). SOB, Healy and Henry's injuries have only further damaged our ground game. Without poachers on the ground, we leave ourselves open to being outmuscled and subjected to continuous waves of attack. Could be a real problem when Basteraud etc are lining up.

Best and POM were the only real players of that ilk we had starting last week. Hopefully Schmidt will go with SOB, with Healy to come on. Reckon it could save us a few bruises.

SOB should re re-introduced gradually no? he looked really puffed after 20 mins vs Saxons, a much less physical side than France in the 6Ns.

i would have him on the bench and give him 15-25 against France depending on the scoreline.

having SOB right for RWC must be more important that his ball winning skills vs France on the weekend, no?

I know i could be wrong about this, but i just have a feeling that France will put in a big display against Ireland, and may also put in a big score too.

Of cause i have been wrong before. so you never know.

Yeah most people, probably including Schmidt seem to be thinking that way Quins, but I don't buy into that line of thought. The team needs momentum going into the WC, especially seeing as it's against our WC group rivals at home. In my mind, SOB light is still better than Murphy/TOD. I suppose the worry is he won't be able to cover the pitch adequately for even 40 mins. If he truly is that unfit he should play for Leinster instead this week.

majesticimperialman wrote:I know i could be wrong about this, but i just have a feeling that France will put in a big display against Ireland, and  may also put in a big score too.

Of cause i have been wrong before. so you never know.

So which side of the top of the fence are you sitting on?

A bit dodgy bringing both Heislip & SOB back having both being injured.

majestic has a point.  

When I was doing my predicting on the other thread I genuinely felt like going for a French win... because I sense it's a poissibility.  Not sure about a big score win, but a win is prowling around my conscience.  Not because I think Ireland are being complacent or that a lot of the media seem to be calling this an Irish victory well before  a shot is fired in anger. I expect Ireland to fully 'respect' France's ability.

But it's France itself who I seem to think was more solid than most commentators seem to give it credit for at the weekend.  People say Ireland did enough against a poor Italy and were poor themselves in the victory.  But that's no less than France did.  It did enough without having to overly sweat or show all its cards.

France do like to give an extra level to Ireland and it could be coming again.

But still - I went for a comfortable enough Irish victory out of loyalty... loyalty to the idea that Schmidt will prepare his side to fight a French team that might 'surprise' others with its bloody minded resilience - but not him or his players.

I think a lot will depend on the starting pack France pick. Menini was underwhelming in the first half and whilst Maestre played well, PSA is missing a trick (not for the first time !) in the non-selection of Clermont's giant second row, Sebastian Vahaamahina.
I was critical of his continued selections last season when he was overweight and seemed to fumble the ball every time he carried and looked out on his feet by half time. In contrast, after moving to Clermont he seems to have shed about 10KG of flab, is incredibly fit, and is playing outstandingly for his new club. This of course means that he has been dropped by PSA!

15. Scott Spedding
14. Yoann Huget
13. Mathieu Bastareaud
12. Wesley Fofana
11. Teddy Thomas
10. Camille Lopez
9. Rory Kockott
1. Eddy Ben Arous
2. Guilhem Guirado
3. Rabah Slimani
4. Pascal Papé
5. Yoann Maestri
6. Thierry Dusautoir (captain)
7. Bernard Le Roux
8. Damien Chouly
Replacements:
16. Benjamin Kayser
17. Uini Atonio
18. Vincent Debaty
19. Romain Taofifenua
20. Loann Goujon
21. Morgan Parra
22. Rémi Tales
23. Rémi Lamerat

Only 1 change to the starting line up? Is PSA feeling ok this week?

Looks good though, when is the Irish team named?

Sin é wrote:A bit dodgy bringing both Heislip & SOB back having both being injured.

O'Donnell is a bit of a penalty machine at the breakdown (Gave away 2 v Italy) and Murphy is a makehsift player - neither are a patch on O'Brien so it makes sense to start well against France and squeeze 50 min from O'Brien, then hopefully a bit more against England.

The breakdown wasn't great againts Italy, especially on our own ball so the 2 Leinster boys will add something there.

England's backrow is massive so we need the gamble to get these guys fit if we are to give them a run in a fortnight.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:A bit dodgy bringing both Heislip & SOB back having both being injured.

O'Donnell is a bit of a penalty machine at the breakdown (Gave away 2 v Italy) and Murphy is a  makehsift player - neither are a patch on O'Brien so it makes sense to start well against France and squeeze 50 min from O'Brien, then hopefully a bit more against England.

The breakdown wasn't great againts Italy, especially on our own ball so the 2 Leinster boys will add something there.

England's backrow is massive so we need the gamble to get these guys fit if we are to give them a run in a fortnight.

He is an openside and gave away two penalties in a test match. Thats not too shabby to be fair. I gave away more penalties that that from the bench.
I think we kept posession really well. Didn't use it too cleverly but the breakdown work on our own ball was good.
Having said that the two boys are great to have coming back but if SOB starts I would have money on him giving away more than two penalties even if he only lasts 50/60 minutes.

Roddy, SOB can be a penalty machine as well. Most 7s are (except for David Wallace who rarely gave away a penalty).

Murray Kinsella's breakdown analysis had O'Donnell King of the Breakdown.

murray kinsella wrote:O’Donnell steps up

Losing Sean O’Brien at such a late stage was naturally a major blow for Ireland, but Munster’s in-form openside Tommy O’Donnell comfortably switched from a bench role into the first team and performed well.
A second-half try was the highlight for the 27-year-old, but there was real quality in his rucking involvements too. A total of 40 actions in this area made it an extremely taxing afternoon in a physical sense, but O’Donnell’s fitness delivered.
The openside was top of the leaderboard in terms of first arrivals, with 17. Remarkably, 12 of those were effective and there were two dominant hits too. Of his 10 second arrivals, seven were effective, meaning O’Donnell gave a very strong display.

Defensively, the Cahir man was as the joint-leader in terms of numbers, as he made three slowing actions and had another three presents. The breakdown and ruck being such a central area for any openside, Schmidt was surely pleased with O’Donnell.
The competition in the back row for Ireland is such that O’Donnell’s chances have been limited, but he showed his value on his first Six Nations start in Rome.

Murray Kinsella wrote:Zebo king of the backs

With 22 total involvements at the ruck, left wing Simon Zebo led the way for the backs, arriving first an impressive nine times and second on seven occasions.
Seven effective hits when he arrived perhaps underline how the Cork man has improved in the areas of the game Schmidt has asked him to. There were still a handful of rucking efforts Zebo will look to improve, but this was hard-working stuff once again.

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-italy-rucks-1931855-Feb2015/

edit: Bowe will need to up his game if he doesn't want to lose his place to Andrew Trimble.

Was hoping for Dulin to start but PSA never fails to disapoint me!

I thought Spedding did ok, and I reckon Dulin being in would leave you really short of kicking options in the backs, neither centre is much of a kicker either

quinsforever wrote:SOB should re re-introduced gradually no? he looked really puffed after 20 mins vs Saxons, a much less physical side than France in the 6Ns.

i would have him on the bench and give him 15-25 against France depending on the scoreline.

having SOB right for RWC must be more important that his ball winning skills vs France on the weekend, no?

The thing is, if he starts and runs out of gas he can be replaced. If he comes off the bench and runs out of gas, we're screwed.

I would have him and Healy play for Leinster this week and next week, but hey ho.

Sin é wrote:
edit: Bowe will need to up his game if he doesn't want to lose his place to Andrew Trimble.

If everything Bowe reached for with his fingertips was actually caught then he'd be quite a obstacle for the opposition to stop.  I mean he's still a potent weapon when on top form but even then, he could be so much more potent if he improved that confidence by actually catching all those balls he gets so tantalisingly close to with the tips of his grasping fingertips.

If you stroll through his history, so many times he's always just a finger tip too far ahead of an incoming ball or a fingertip too far behind.  I don't like criticising a guy who has done so much for us, but I do wish he could tidy up there and give us more reassurance that he'll catch whatever comes out to him

The problem is most of our players can't pass accurately off their left hands, hence Bowe doesn't getting the quality ball Zebede is out wide.

He needs to come in field more but without Jackson/Sexton, who stand flat, the backline is too deep for his inside trailing lines to be effective when drifting off the wing.

Interesting that Joe moved him to outside centre in the second half - maybe that the plan when Trimble returns.

rodders wrote:The problem is most of our players can't pass accurately off their left hands, hence Bowe doesn't getting the quality ball Zebede is out wide.

He needs to come in field more but without Jackson/Sexton, who stand flat, the backline is too deep for his inside trailing lines to be effective when drifting off the wing.

Interesting that Joe moved him to outside centre in the second half - maybe that the plan when Trimble returns.

I'll take some of that, rodders, but I've been watching Bowe a long time, longer than Zeebs can be held accountable for. It's always been an area that needs tightening up from him.

I dont think the Italy game will have too much influence on team selection and rightly so. If we started selecting teams based on one match we'd end up with some crazy selections. Look at France!

Fly I would say Bowe times his runs probably better than any player I've ever seen, hence he scores so many tries despite being as slow as a carthorse

I'd bet over 50% of Bowe's tries come from either an intercept, a timed run through the middle off the field or gathering a crossfield kick - all of which require perfect timing.

rodders wrote:Fly I would say Bowe times his runs probably better than any player I've ever seen, hence he scores so many tries despite being as slow as a carthorse

I'd bet over 50% of Bowe's tries come from either an intercept, a timed run through the middle off the field or gathering a crossfield kick - all of which require perfect timing.

It's not the perfect timing ones I'm talking about.  It's the offtimed ones that dance on the fingers and then...................... well, next time might be better.  

Those moments - and there are reels of those too, so let's not be coy.
Great player, to be sure to be sure - still needs to gain more accuracy in finding the perfect balls in the frenetically paced jungle.

Murray Kinsella's predicted team.

Very exciting lineup! real impact off the bench in the forwards, great to see CH and SOB back after so long.

Why Boss!!!

Possible Ireland team to face France:

15. Rob Kearney
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Jared Payne
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Simon Zebo
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O’Connell
6. Peter O’Mahony
7. Sean O’Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin
17. Cian Healy
18. Marty Moore
19. Iain Henderson
20. Jordi Murphy
21. Isaac Boss
22. Ian Madigan
23. Felix Jones

the-goon wrote:Murray Kinsella's predicted team.

Very exciting lineup! real impact off the bench in the forwards, great to see CH and SOB back after so long.

Why Boss!!!

Possible Ireland team to face France:

15. Rob Kearney
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Jared Payne
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Simon Zebo
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O’Connell
6. Peter O’Mahony
7. Sean O’Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin
17. Cian Healy
18. Marty Moore
19. Iain Henderson
20. Jordi Murphy
21. Isaac Boss
22. Ian Madigan
23. Felix Jones

Madigans hairdresser - AKA- Predictor of teams, should be along presently to give us the team.

It's strange that ever since the retirement of BOD, Thornley doesn't seem to have the exclusive Crystal Ball teamsheets all to himself anymore.

He's been dethroned by this new batch of warted up Oracles.

Was BOD Thornley's Deep Throat?

thats a pretty strong looking team.

france's best hope is that something happens that gets Boss on the pitch early...

quinsforever wrote:thats a pretty strong looking team.

france's best hope is that something happens that gets Boss on the pitch early...

No need for the fast getaway. Very accurate analysis to be fair.

Payne and Henshaw need to start motoring as a unit and proving the long long fanfare is worth the build-up.

And Kearney needs to find a few more excuses to go forward rather than crab himself over and back without gaining an inch.

quinsforever wrote:thats a pretty strong looking team.

france's best hope is that something happens that gets Boss on the pitch early...

I wish you weren't right about that but you are...

Were going to be fecked if something happens to McGrath early on.

Ah c'mon lads, Murray is one of the best SH's in the world, he won't be coming off unless Murray loses a leg. We'll be graaaaaaaaaand.

The rest of the team makes me feel kinda funny, like when I used to climb the rope in PE...

Yes, early injuries to McGrath, Murray or Sexton could change the course of the game