Beating the drum for Jack Nowell..

First topic message reminder :

I went to see Chiefs v Newcastle yesterday and watched the England game at the ground before hand. Yes I know it was only Newcastle but Jack Nowell was nothing short of scintillating playing at outside centre yesterday, Breaking tackles for fun and also using his pace to run around rather than through defenders when he could. Having watched Jonny May out of position more than once and then finally failing to get the Italian winger into touch for the final score I think its time for Lancaster to take a risk and start both Nowell and Watson versus Ireland if Brown is declared fit.

Opinions?

Gooseberry wrote:There will. In this case though Lancaster seems to have reignited his love affair with Nowell and looks set to pick him because hes better at doing what the coaches tell him to do and is on form. Even if that means spilling the odd high ball.

Or costing England a GS when playing against France. Obviously.

Jimpy wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:And well deserved, has he displayed he lacks a brain? I don't think he has.

You obviously weren't paying attention when he first made his ascent to the England team.... he's never been known for his nouse, on or off the pitch. I mean, you could argue that it isn't true all you want, but then I could have sworn I saw him attempt to score a nailed on try against Wales by trying to chew his way through the post padding.

I'm something of a May apologist, but I am also one to point out that he does have his weaknesses. Last year it was Nowell who got all the stick for being less than useful as a winger, now apparently, he should be playing instead of May. How fickle people can be. There is a lack of options in that position at the moment - it is up to players like Wade and Yarde to prove that they are good enough to replace the encumbant. Lancaster has his reasons for staying with May - young Beshocked reckons we should stick with him despite May not being Ashton....

That's a fair point Jimpy. 

I think a lot of young wingers would have blown the overlap opportunity like May did. People always get white line fever and it's hard to see passed that when you're overcome by it. Perfect example- the Scottish forwards when they were camped on the Welsh try line and had an overlap out left. 

Nowell's been impressive since his return, and i've always been a fan of his industrious approach to the game. I thought he performed well last Six Nations. However, he did have one or two selfish moments in the shirt last year where he should have shipped the ball but didn't. I distinctly remember Brown throwing his arms up in despair when Nowell chose contact over a simple pass out to the wing where Brown was waiting. 

Everyone does it at times!

Think that was May looking for a walk in from Nowell. It was Nowells pass Brown later in the same match (Scotland) from the same situation which showed he learns from his mistakes.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Think that was May looking for a walk in from Nowell. It was Nowells pass Brown later in the same match (Scotland) from the same situation which showed he learns from his mistakes.

You're right, thanks 7.5 

Brown always seems to be annoyed when he doesn't get the ball, so I just assumed it was him

Very odd indeed.

The general concensus on here seems to be either.

Nowell is in good form it's get him in straight away - he's utterly brilliant.

If May is playing badly - it's don't worry he'll come good

Ashton isn't in good form - second rate winger (despite him actually being one of the form wingers in Europe).

If any of the other wingers had shown similar form to Ashton their names would probably be shouted from the roof tops.

beshocked wrote:Very odd indeed.

The general concensus on here seems to be either.

Nowell is in good form it's get him in straight away - he's utterly brilliant.

If May is playing badly - it's don't worry he'll come good

Ashton isn't in good form - second rate winger (despite him actually being one of the form wingers in Europe).

If any of the other wingers had shown similar form to Ashton their names would probably be shouted from the roof tops.

I don't think so. People are saying May is unconvincing at this stage, Nowell has improved in form and perhaps ought to start ahead of May. Some are saying May will come good given time, mostly I see people saying that he is okay, has some flaws but plays well otherwise - he'll do for now. None of his potential replacements quite cut the mustard either, so we pretty much have to persist with May - as you've said yourself.

Ashton is in good club form. However, that does not necessarily translate into international form, and when i think of some of the defensive howlers Ashton has been 'to blame' for in his England career, right now, i'd have May over him any day of the week.

There is a lot of competition at wing and nothing fixed.

Ashton was the man in possession. Despite his very good try scoring record early on and his very good club record, he just has seemed not to fit in the current team. He had chances and yes on the wing it can be difficult because you are very dependent on what happens inside as to how involved you are, but he didn't take those chances and was poor when he last played for England.

Nowell had a mixed record (as in some GOOD as well as the bad) 1st 6N but is back stronger, more experienced and on form. He is also a terrific defender for a wing.

May and Watson were very good in the Autumn, and it seemed at the time that it was very much, finally, a case that the wing positions are sorted. After 2 games we have had mixed performances from both of these guys (as in good AND bad).

All three of these guys have fitted in better with Lancaster's new model army much better than Ashton. It isn't a surprise he is down the list whatever he achieves at club level, if the alternatives show good form at club and offer something at international.

There is a price to pay for actually producing a good supply of talent, and that is that talented players that would get into many teams won't get a look in.

The other difference with May is that he has more of an all round game than Ashton who is just a pure finsiher. Whsilt Mays tackling has come under the spotlight after the Italy game its certainly no worse than Ashtons, but he does have the full back skills that Ashton lacks.
Ditto Nowell.

Lancaster has always favoured wings who can act as second full backs. I dont see Ashton as close to the team at this point regardless of  may being dropped or not. Some good news for you though beshocked....contrary to internet opinion it looks like Goode may come in for Brown if he doenst recover from the concussion.

Gooseberry wrote:The other difference with May is that he has more of an all round game than Ashton who is just a pure finsiher. Whsilt Mays tackling has come under the spotlight after the Italy game its certainly no worse than Ashtons, but he does have the full back skills that Ashton lacks.
Ditto Nowell.

Lancaster has always favoured wings who can act as second full backs. I dont see Ashton as close to the team at this point regardless of  may being dropped or not. Some good news for you though beshocked....contrary to internet opinion it looks like Goode may come in for Brown if he doenst recover from the concussion.

How does it look like that? Twelvetrees and Nowell are the extra players retained by England to cover for Brown.

Because Lancaster has said that Goode is next on the list at FB.

It does sound less than ideal for Brown at the moment.

thomh wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:The other difference with May is that he has more of an all round game than Ashton who is just a pure finsiher. Whsilt Mays tackling has come under the spotlight after the Italy game its certainly no worse than Ashtons, but he does have the full back skills that Ashton lacks.
Ditto Nowell.

Lancaster has always favoured wings who can act as second full backs. I dont see Ashton as close to the team at this point regardless of  may being dropped or not. Some good news for you though beshocked....contrary to internet opinion it looks like Goode may come in for Brown if he doenst recover from the concussion.

How does it look like that? Twelvetrees and Nowell are the extra players retained by England to cover for Brown.

It says in this article thomh. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11419036/Six-Nations-2015-Jack-Nowell-to-mount-serious-bid-for-Jonny-Mays-position-on-England-wing-against-Ireland.html

Granted, it could just be journalist's speculation

Yeh I can't find any actual quote from Lancaster saying that.

Why would he keep Nowell and Twelvetrees but not Goode if that were the case?

thomh wrote:Yeh I can't find any actual quote from Lancaster saying that.

Why would he keep Nowell and Twelvetrees but not Goode if that were the case?

This is the article with quotes mate, rest don't seem to be carrying the actual quote

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12040/9718958/six-nations-england-retain-17-for-training-ahead-of-ireland-match

He is quoted as saying Goode is "at the forefront of everyone's mind" in the Telegraph, but Sky have him actually saying that Goode is the number 2 behind Brown

ESPN are carrying that as well, Nowell in for May and Goode on standby for Brown

Well I can see the logic in a sense. Goode played well against Ireland away in 2013 and his kicking game out of hand is ahead of Watson's. Gives an extra place kicking option if Ford's goes caput as well. Still feels like a potential defensive soft-spot if the game is played on a dry track, and it takes some pressure off Sexton's tactical kicking as Goode can't run it back like Brown can on a good day.