End of Round 2: Discontent all round?

Who is happy with their team? It strikes me that no team really seems to have had that good a round.

Italy: Will be pleased to have scored three tries but their defence was as thin as a fine stone-baked Margherita's base.
Rating: 3/10
Star Man: Morisi

England: A good win on the scoreboard, but they let in three tries and didn't control the game as expected.
Rating: 7/10
Star Man: Joseph

France: Defeat and their bosh-bash-bump style of play seemed so dull and foreign to the style of play we expect and want to see from them. It's like going to a French restaurant and being given buckfast. Sorry, but no.
Rating: 5/10
Star Man: Lopez

Ireland: Perhaps the happiest, but no try was scored and the backs just looked a little disjointed, lacking the cohesion of Darcy and O'Driscoll. Get some WD-40 into them.
Rating: 7/10
Star Man: Sexton

Wales: A win, but they came up against a Scottish team who, quite frankly, were their own worst enemies. If they keep up this level, they can wave goodbye to the 6 Nations title and getting out of their RWC group.
Rating: 6/10
Star Man: Halfpenny

Scotland: Same old, same old. "They created chances" "potential" - but no delivery. Like a flat Irn-Bru or a Caramel Wafer that's melted in your pocket, such high expectations, such dejection.
Rating: 5/10
Star Man: Dunbar
So, were you happy with your team? Did you see improvement? Are you optimistic for your team?

Fair summary, I think the big difference from last year from an England perspective is the introduction of Ford,Joseph and Haskell.

Ireland have the return of Sexton and so far the other revelation has been Russell for Scotland.

France are well at this level ..just France.

Wales no change & no surprise.

Can we have a 'no one' option as I don't think any one side has been impressive throughout and we have seen a good 80 minutes from any of them yet.

I do think that so far the best 2 teams are England and Ireland.

Wales have a lot of Lions in the team, but so far they are looking a bit like Cat cats rather than lions.

France are or was starting to show glimpses of what they could do if their passes started to stick.

Scotland have shown they are the nearly men when it comes to closing out games.

I do think that the next game will tell us more of who is likely to be the winner this year.

majesticimperialman wrote:I do think that so far the best 2 teams are England and Ireland.

Wales have a lot of Lions in the team, but so far they are looking a bit like Cat cats rather than lions.

France are or was starting to show glimpses of what they could do if their passes started to stick.

Scotland have shown they are the nearly men when it comes to closing out games.

I do think that the next game will tell us more of who is likely to be the winner this year.

maj,

Agreed but again neither England nor Ireland have had a good 80 minutes yet, I expected more of both yesterday but they stuttered. The game in 2 weeks (or 2 years as InverDull) said will go most if not all they way to deciding who will win Championship this year though still think the Slam won't be won.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:I do think that so far the best 2 teams are England and Ireland.

Wales have a lot of Lions in the team, but so far they are looking a bit like Cat cats rather than lions.

France are or was starting to show glimpses of what they could do if their passes started to stick.

Scotland have shown they are the nearly men when it comes to closing out games.

I do think that the next game will tell us more of who is likely to be the winner this year.

maj,

Agreed but again neither England nor Ireland have had a good 80 minutes yet, I expected more of both yesterday but they stuttered.  The game in 2 weeks (or 2 years as InverDull) said will go most if not all they way to deciding who will win Championship this year though still think the Slam won't be won.

I do agree England in both game's so far have come from behind, Wales went 10 nill up after 10 minutes.
Same against Italy.

I do think that if England start the same way against Ireland  Go behind or rather start slow then it will be a long day in the office for England.

I don't think that Ireland are the finished article either just yet, But Ireland like Wales have been together (more settled team) that what England have. So it should be a right nail biter.

England weren't as bad as everyone thinks, after an injury like browns the ensuing wait, the complete disruption to the back line 12,13,14,15 all changed then its not surprising. Also a bit of a physical and emotional come down after Wales and getting up for Italy games is probably a bit tougher. That said we still spanked them, IMO only real areas for change are Parling to help tidy the lineout, and potentially May for an other (roko and Nowell on fire this wkd).

I am happy enough with the two performances so far. Sure I would like to erase the first 10 minutes of both, and starting so slowly against Ireland would not bode well.

However we won in Cardiff and beat our average winning margin against Italy. Pushing for tries perhaps saw us looser in defence than ideal, and certainly than we were against Wales. That needs to be tightened.

Only change I would make would be to replace either Easter or Croft with a genuine second rower, assuming Brown is cleared to play.

Yep, it seems nobody is happy

But then again I think some of them protest too much.............. not naming any names - but England!

Yes, by listening to the after dinner speeches by the fans, it seems it was Italy that ran England ragged and got the 6 tries that could easily have been two or three more.
You can only play what's in front of you and even New Zealand let in tries.  Not the end of the world - if you play attack fast and frantic, you open up risk.  The idea though is that 'we're going to score more than you' - and England seem to be in that mood.

So I couldn't agree with Nematode in saying Ireland are remotely the happiest.  England are in the driving seat.  Their fans may grumble to the contrary but they know it too.

Ireland are getting results but are infuriatingly plodding and one dimensional in doing it.  They live on wins by the seat of the defensive pants and I'm not sure how long that plan is going to hold out.  They are either not willing to open up attacking ideas until forced to by going well behind - OR, that attacking game simply isn't open to them this year with the personal available.
It'll be some more Serious coaching from the Irish coaches if they can get the team through this season unbeaten - and I feel that's what it'll take to get a title - to remain unbeaten.  The points difference won't be in our favour this year.  Going on what I saw of Scotland today, England are going to open them up and rise their points difference again.

Ireland has to meet the Welsh.  Unless lightning does strike twice, Wales aren't going to be 'surprised' into submission this time.  As always, they start slow and build defiance over the season - usually stoked by a lot of inner anger at the rest of the world being agin 'em.  They've had a taste of that with the drama about North, so the wagons are circled and a sense of 'reawakening' will undoubtedly rise out of their win today.
They're going to be a tough nut for all their next opponents - and the poor Italians will be in for another grilling if Wales cut loose too.

Scotland did a little bit of flattering to deceive I suppose last week against France.  It didn't look too good today where a criminal lack of patience and a willingness to enter a loose and open game with Wales showed a little bit too much confidence by Scotland.  They would have been better served to act the under-dog a little bit more and probably even believe it.  They weren't far off a win and but for a few reffing errors might have got over the line - but camping on Wales' line so long and not being able to make any of it count is something that will haunt them.  

France seem to be flat, flaccid, dull and boring according to most of what I've been reading.  What I'm seeing though is a side much more interested in competing this season - and their boring 'fatties' I find compulsive enough viewing. I don't think they'll fall away now.  I don't think they'll lose interest.  And I feel one of England or Wales is going to fall to them.  I can see them coming out 2nd or 3rd.

So it's England being chased down by a pack of three.  And I'm not so certain right now that Ireland will end up above the other two of France and Wales.

Most torn must be the Scotfans. Arguably the best looking side theyve had in years, two games they maybe should've won against mid table opposition leaves them staring at another wooden spoon tussle. It doesnt appear this is going to be a crazy year like 2013, yet Scotland have come close to making it so.
On one hand a side that genuinely looks competitive. On the other two loses without yet facing the best two sides in the competition.

The only downer for Ireland is the injuries stacking up again. England really you are nit picking if youre down on them, surely we have got over the idea that they should win every game all the time after years of failing to do that? They look better than the side that played in the AIs, despite playing the second choice locks and losing their best back for most of the last game. 1 loseable game won and a solid points differential on the gimme.

France should just give up. Italy its the same old problems, competitive for a short period but no depth and no goal kicker. Theyve traded the ability to bully the opposition tight 5 for the ability to score backs tries but the end result is the same, they are rubbish.

Wales, if its not a grand slam it doesnt count.

A point of order!

Is WD40 a cohesive?

MrsP wrote:A point of order!

Is WD40 a cohesive?

Their attacks seemed to jar and weren't fluid - they need to be more seamless and be on the same wavelength for them to stick. In other words, small mistakes need to be ironed out (i.e. getting the moves performed perfectly so that they are slicker and more accurate - not stalling) in order to play better together.

So you need WD40 first in order to get the moves to stick. ish

I thought Ireland were absolutely brilliant with half their obviously never having played together before.

Just imagine what they'll be like when they start scoring tries against teams.

England are going to be slaughtered. Wales minced and Scotland stewed.

Obviously an Ireland Grand Slam this year.


PS. I am content.

Ireland look tough but toothless. England have teeth (probably the only team in the 6 who is showing teeth) but do have other issues.

Ireland could well limp over the line to a hard earned low scoring grand slam, but if it does go to points difference then England will win.

To those suggesting Easter be replaced I say No other second row would have scored the try he scored. Easter must stay. Drop Croft I say. He was useless.

englandglory4ever wrote:To those suggesting Easter be replaced I say No other second row would have scored the try he scored. Easter must stay. Drop Croft I say. He was useless.

He took a very nice line out catch but there wasnt a lot else for him to do. It wasnt exactly one of Haskell's best efforts either.

I definitely think people are being harsh on England, they scored 47 points and won by 30 (could have been more too), I know Italy aren't the strongest opponents but still!

I'm happy. France are just about as strong as any team we've yet to face and we won while playing at 60%. Not much entertainment for the neutrals but we've shown we can play better rugby in the past- whether we improve or not I would take three more wins like that.

I do think England are a much better coached and organised team than France, but I was more worried about France due to the sheer brute force they have all over the pitch which is our specific achilles heel. France are the team that always, always cause us problems and I'm just delighted they're are now gone and out of the way regardless of how it got done. England are more inventive, more varied, mentally tougher- but I can't see our back row and centres being physically bullied into ineffectiveness by them the way the French can. We'll be narrow favourites for our next game against England at home- win that and we're in a great position.

The fact there is more to come from Ireland and I expect we'll see it before too long leaves me in a fairly relaxed and contented position at the end of Round 2.

I was happier with england after week one, ok I know we won by a decent score and JJ looks like a star, but we were lucky we weren't playing a SH team as we would have been 15+ points down inside the first 10mins,

I just really hope it was a case that the team thought they were going to win and didn't really get out of the blocks rather than we are not as good as we think we might be?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Can we have a 'no one' option as I don't think any one side has been impressive throughout and we have seen a good 80 minutes from any of them yet.

Agree. No one is making anyone else shake in their booties. So far.

I think if England had started yesterday like they finished in Cardiff then it would have been put to bed by half time at the latest.

I think one of the problems at the moment is we have teams who can be dominant 'on their day', but in reality are inconsistent. Ever since 2003, every second sentence about England Rugby always started "If England...." I bet there are young kids who believe the name of the country is Ifengland.

SecretFly wrote:Yep, it seems nobody is happy

I'm happy.

Ireland and England are comfortably the strongest sides as expected - we've navigated dark horse one, England have taken out darkhorse 2 and Scotland... the darkest horse have been exposed by darkhorse 2 as not being as dark as expected.

By round 3 we should be out of our misery one way or another.

I'm glad the Irish contingent seem mostly happy.  Maybe I'll try to suck some of it, leach-like, from them to fill my veins with

But England can throw in the brute force into the menu too, as a punch-drunk Wales found to their cost in that second half.  
It's not so much the dead weight of the force but the tempo of the brute.  And England's 'fatties' - let's call 'em that for now as a comparison debate with the French - have the bulk but also the super fitness to throw it around more fluidly and at the maximum velocity to do serious damage for more extended periods than France can manage.

I wouldn't say Ireland don't have a few more gears, but on paper the English are going to ask many more technical questions of us than the French, and question our lung capacity too whilst they're at it.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Yep, it seems nobody is happy

I'm happy.

Ireland and England are comfortably the strongest sides as expected - we've navigated dark horse one, England have taken out darkhorse 2 and Scotland... the darkest horse have been exposed by darkhorse 2 as not being as dark as expected.

By round 3 we should be out of our misery one way or another.

Hmmm.... Except Wales will think they have taken out capall dubh eile this weekend and think that Ireland will beat the capall ban and then the real capall dubh will rise from the ashes dragon-like in the Millennium and expose the capall glas as just another capall liath and gallop off to Rome to claim their crown with a 95 point win over the capall Iodailis.

Or something like that......

As Pope said: "Gatland will be waiting in the long grass. Don't worry about that". And the bastareaud will. Putting a fork in BodO'Green's four-leaf clover patch??? Mmmmmmmmm, that's the kind of dream that gets him out of bed in the morning.

SecretFly wrote:I'm glad the Irish contingent seem mostly happy.  Maybe I'll try to suck some of it, leach-like, from them to fill my veins with

But England can throw in the brute force into the menu too, as a punch-drunk Wales found to their cost in that second half.  
It's not so much the dead weight of the force but the tempo of the brute.  And England's 'fatties' - let's call 'em that for now as a comparison debate with the French - have the bulk but also the super fitness to throw it around more fluidly and at the maximum velocity to do serious damage for more extended periods than France can manage.

I wouldn't say Ireland don't have a few more gears, but on paper the English are going to ask many more technical questions of us than the French, and question our lung capacity too whilst they're at it.

I think you need to go further - none of this complimentary "better fattie' stuff for the English team. From now until March 1st 8pm, England need to be regarded as De Enemy. When Ireland have beaten them soundly, I think Irish fans can be a bit more magnanimous and scatter largesse to the English multitudes.

1st March is already an auspicious date in history. Not only is it Justin Bieber's birthday, but - and not many people know this - on 1st March 1700, Sweden decided to have its own Swedish calendar with a view to merging with the Gregorian Calendar at some point, but lost their nerve and went back to the Julian Calendar on 1st March twelve year later, and then, almost Swiss-like in their penchant for doing things on the same date, finally managed to transfer to the Gregorian Calendar on the 1st March a mere 41 years later.

So if the Swedes can finally get their act together, there's no reason why Ireland can't get back on top of the English, so to speak.

SecretFly wrote:As Pope said: "Gatland will be waiting in the long grass.  Don't worry about that".  

The long grass isn't much of an advantage if you know exactly what the opposition are planning when they come out of it.

Pot Hale wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I'm glad the Irish contingent seem mostly happy.  Maybe I'll try to suck some of it, leach-like, from them to fill my veins with

But England can throw in the brute force into the menu too, as a punch-drunk Wales found to their cost in that second half.  
It's not so much the dead weight of the force but the tempo of the brute.  And England's 'fatties' - let's call 'em that for now as a comparison debate with the French - have the bulk but also the super fitness to throw it around more fluidly and at the maximum velocity to do serious damage for more extended periods than France can manage.

I wouldn't say Ireland don't have a few more gears, but on paper the English are going to ask many more technical questions of us than the French, and question our lung capacity too whilst they're at it.

I think you need to go further - none of this complimentary "better fattie' stuff for the English team.  From now until March 1st 8pm, England need to be regarded as De Enemy.  When Ireland have beaten them soundly, I think Irish fans can be a bit more magnanimous and scatter largesse to the English multitudes.

1st March is already an auspicious date in history.   Not only is it Justin Bieber's birthday, but - and not many people know this - on 1st March 1700, Sweden decided to have its own Swedish calendar with a view to merging with the Gregorian Calendar at some point, but lost their nerve and went back to the Julian Calendar on 1st March twelve year later, and then, almost Swiss-like in their penchant for doing things on the same date, finally managed to transfer to the Gregorian Calendar on the 1st March a mere 41 years later.  

So if the Swedes can finally get their act together, there's no reason why Ireland can't get back on top of the English, so to speak.  

The most cogently argued point so far. Just not sure what is has to do with rugby... Very convincing though, which makes England underdogs.

Cowshot wrote:

The most cogently argued point so far. Just not sure what is has to do with rugby... Very convincing though, which makes England underdogs.

Nope, Cowshot. You still got the superior fatties. You can't ever offload that herd. England have it in the bag. Get those Winner Adverts up and running.

I can see visiting supporters banners at Lansdown now: Fear our Fat!

Ireland lie down and whimper. POC realises he's nowhere on the fat front. Sexton suddenly appreciates that no matter how wide he spreads it he can't match the width of even one England Fattie...

I like it: World Cup by superior fat!

Ireland narrow favourites for the England game because they have home advantage.
England narrow favourites because its not the last game to close out a grand slam. France get the pleasure of humping them by 20 points plus this year.

I'm not unhappy as an England supporter, because I didn't buy into the euphoria last week. We've often been inconsistent and it's no surprise to find that not everything worked as smoothly one game on.

We have a big problem with the way we are starting matches. Nick Easter was at pains to point out how different he finds the set-up now compared with 2011, but he noted in his Talksport interview that the two big losses that year - Ireland in Dublin and France at the World Cup - both originated in very poor starts.

It's almost as if the players are so keen to do their jobs properly, they forget to remember they are in a game. We often lose points when things haven't gone to plan (losing a lineout yesterday, thinking we'd won a scrum last week) and we've been caught getting ahead of ourselves.

Once we settle in a game, we can be good value, and exert effective pressure but I don't think we have the mental strength to claw back a big deficit against the southern big three. We haven't even shown we can do it against France or Ireland, so the only answer is to get into the game from the off.

Rugby Fan wrote: Nick Easter was at pains to point out how different he finds the set-up now compared with 2011.

Yeah hes got his win bonus from both games so far

Were Scotland robbed? Probably.... repeated infringement on the Welsh try line or in the Welsh 22 resulted in a warning from the Ref 'No more penalties'. He then subsequently went on to award 4 more penalties in swift sucession for repeated Welsh infringement in their own 22/half without receiving a yellow card. That and the deliberate attempt by Wales to run the clock down by brawling after the last Scottish try...

Having said that, Scotland wasted at least three golden try scoring opportunities so left at least 15 points on the pitch. They lack the finisher - or the nouse to finish. That must be addressed. Wales can count themselves very lucky in my opinion.

England need to tighten up in the first 20 minutes. Both Lancaster and Robshaw admitted this to be the case. As they've recognised an issue, presumably they'll address it. Other than that, a battling Italy made England work at times, but the result was never in doubt.

Ireland and France? Meh.... neither side looked that convincing to me, so it'll be interesting to see how Ireland front up to England in Dublin. Again, like the Wales game, England will be underdogs I would suggest - and we all know what happened on that Friday night in Cardiff.

England know that they'll need to perform better to beat Ireland. Italy showed some cracks in the England defence that can be fixed.

A positive for England is that they now know that they can come back from 10-0. The ability to regroup and refocus is important.

England have not lost to Ireland under Lancaster, that should give the team confidence.

Lancaster needs this win badly - a GS is there for the taking.

beshocked wrote:England know that they'll need to perform better to beat Ireland. Italy showed some cracks in the England defence that can be fixed.

A positive for England is that they now know that they can come back from  10-0. The ability to regroup and refocus is important.

England have not lost to Ireland under Lancaster, that should give the team confidence.

Lancaster needs this win badly - a GS is there for the taking.

Beshocked - what are your thoughts on May after that match? I am a proponent of his (or is that an apologist?) but I thought he was the weak link in the back line on Saturday. He was greedy with an overlap outside him and it squandered a try. Other than that, he didn't seem to do much.

Jimpy wrote:...what are your thoughts on May after that match? I am a proponent of his (or is that an apologist?) but I thought he was the weak link in the back line on Saturday. He was greedy with an overlap outside him and it squandered a try. Other than that, he didn't seem to do much.

I know all wingers have bombed tries in their career but its hard to think of too many of the current top Aviva players who would have been caught in two minds like May. Strettle and Ashton would have drawn and passed if they couldn't make it. Roko and Nowell would have backed their strength, while Wade and Yarde probably would have had the pace. May had the speed too but suddenly slowed down instead of going for it. It's as if he realized too late he could have created a try and decided to keep the move alive instead of risking failure by putting on the afterburners.

Jimpy I didn't think he played well but he did help set up a try for Cipriani so it wasn't all bad.

As I have said before I didn't see May in the AIs when he supposedly had a good series - that doesn't help my opinion as I haven't been particularly impressed by him in any of the 6 nations matches.

If Lancaster was to drop May he should have done it vs Italy.

Lancaster needs to stick with May now - he's nailed his colours to the mast.

Ireland away is not the time to change players IMO.

To be honest I wouldn't replace anyone except put Lawes on the bench if he is fit.

May for England does seem to habitually cut back in rather than backing himself to take the outside.
I'm wondering how much of this is coming from the coaches/statisticians instructing the players that its better to keep good attacking ball close to the support than get bundled into touch.

beshocked wrote:Ireland away is not the time to change players IMO.

To be honest I wouldn't replace anyone except put Lawes on the bench if he is fit.

Absolutely agree.  Ireland at any time, but especially away, is no time for experimentation. Jeez, England are massive underdogs as it is................

It's funny isn't it?

Yet again it's the 13 which is a significant try scorer for England - first it was Manu, then Burrell, now Joseph.

Gooseberry you're probably right. I do think the coaches have something to do with it. It's not a new thing with wingers under Lancaster is it?

Rugby fan it's a problem though if player X doesn't utilise their strengths or if the coaches don't allow player X to do that.

I have said it time and again wing is a problem position for Lancaster. It's just an area he hasn't quite got working like clockwork yet.

Are we massive underdogs against Ireland?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Are we massive underdogs against Ireland?

Best attack vs best defense.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Are we massive underdogs against Ireland?

Personally I think it's 50/50.

England have the 3-0 record vs Ireland under Lancaster.

England are currently the leading try scorers with 8.

England are in solid form - they have the belief, even if they go 10-0 down they have shown twice that it doesn't matter to them.

It's going to be a tough match.

Tough match but one we should be confident about.

On wingers to be fair there's been a few tries scored by the wingers though I'm not sure of the breakdown between the rest of the team. Jospehs tries came from the wing on Saturday.

Some people here are on the kinda stuff that the rugby players 'aren't'

England 'massive underdogs'? What greyhound races have some of you been watching in the last few weeks?

Nice try Fly, you can't convince us that Ireland are the underdogs this time!

2 wins from 2, plus beating SA and Australia on the same ground in the autumn. To continue the current pattern, England will be a try down in the first 5 minutes and I don't think Ireland will let them in as easily as Italy did.

SecretFly wrote:Some people here are on the kinda stuff that the rugby players 'aren't'

England 'massive underdogs'?  What greyhound races have some of you been watching in the last few weeks?

The May ones, nearest thing to a greyhound in the 6N.

He needs to be more positive, if it's 50/50 he rarely goes for it, but with his pace eben if he is tackled 3/4m short, momentum generally gets him over. Look at the yardage made after the tackle, he nearly always makes yardage from a standing start, when he is flying the physics state that as long as he doesn't try and barge through he will make a lot of ground.

If Lawes is fit enough to bench, he is fit enough to start. 50 minutes of Lawes is a lot better than 60 of Kruis. Play him and take him off when he starts to flag.

As an England fan I'm content. Not ecstatic, but pretty pleased so far. Sure there's plenty of things to improve on, but some of the negativity despite winning by 30 points on Sat was odd to say the least (not on here especially, mind you).

Ireland start as favourites for me, due to being at home. They may not be playing the prettiest stuff, but their defense is scarily good, their discipline superb, and their kick-chase game is exceptional. England will need to start well you feel.