AP Round 15

First topic message reminder :

Fri 20th Feb 15
19:45 NEWCASTLE FALCONS  v   WASPS BT Sport

Newcastle Falcons:
Tait; Sinoti, Powell, Socino, Cato; Catterick, Blair; Vickers, Hawkins, Brookes, Furno, Barrow, Wilson, Welch (capt), Hogg.
Replacements: McGuigan, Orlandia, Wilson, Thompson, Mayhew, Tipuna, Clegg, Tiesi.

Wasps:
Miller; Wade, Daly, Downey, Tagicakibau; Goode, Simpson; Mullan (capt), Festuccia, Cooper-Wooley, Davies, Myall, Johnson, Young, Hughes.
Replacements: Shervington, Yapp, Cittadini, Gaskell, Thompson, Bliss, Lozowski, Masi.



Sat 21st Feb 15

14:00 SALE SHARKS  v   SARACENS

15:00 GLOUCESTER RUGBY  v   LONDON WELSH

15:00 HARLEQUINS  v   EXETER CHIEFS

15:15 BATH RUGBY  v   NORTHAMPTON SAINTS BT Sport


Sun 22nd Feb 15
14:00 LONDON IRISH  v   LEICESTER TIGERS BT Sport

So that's the end of Quins season.

I'd forgotten what it was like to be out of all competitions by this time in the year. Turns out it's not that pleasant.

Any one know of any good backs/skills coaches? Quins were by all accounts shocking at completing the basics today. To be playing against 13 men and not score, and to then have the opposition lose another player later in the game and still not win or even get the losing bp is criminal.

Lots of things need to change at Harlequins. The dream of fielding a XV almost solely from our academy is just that, a silly dream, as the teams at the top all show you need to buy in your success if you're to get any where in this league. The academy is good for the occasional player and a nice talking point, but the wallet rules all now.

Really feel for Trinder. Injured again.

yappysnap wrote:So that's the end of Quins season.

I'd forgotten what it was like to be out of all competitions by this time in the year. Turns out it's not that pleasant.

Any one know of any good backs/skills coaches? Quins were by all accounts shocking at completing the basics today. To be playing against 13 men and not score, and to then have the opposition lose another player later in the game and still not win or even get the losing bp is criminal.

Lots of things need to change at Harlequins. The dream of fielding a XV almost solely from our academy is just that, a silly dream, as the teams at the top all show you need to buy in your success if you're to get any where in this league. The academy is good for the occasional player and a nice talking point, but the wallet rules all now.

So remind me who beat you today?

It always is going to be a combination of a good academy and astute buying, but given that, as well as the Quins/Chiefs game the two (alleged) biggest spenders lost today you might be taking things a little far

I wasn't so much talking about just today as the whole season. At the moment Quins would probably lose in a fight with a paper bag. And you can forgive me being a little upset with just how this season has panned out!

It's no coincidence though that the teams at the top are the ones who've been most active in the transfer market over the last two or three seasons. Likewise teams who've done a lot less are generally lower in the league.

Obviously the anomalies are Exeter (over achieving but dropping down the league now) and Gloucester (under achieving).

15 Mike Brown, 14 Tom Williams, 13 George Lowe, 12 Jordan Turner-Hall, 11 Ugo Monye, 10 Nick Evans, 9 Danny Care, 1 Joe Marler, 2 Joe Gray, 3 James Johnston, 4 Ollie Kohn, 5 George Robson, 6 Maurie Fa'asavalu, 7 Chris Robshaw,8 Nick Easter

The team that won the premiership. A good mix of academy developed, English from other clubs and overseas players that were bargains. Not a bad template - but recruitment needs to happen.

Problem for Quins is that so many of that team have either left, been heavily involved with England, injured or lost form.

JJ has not been replaced, Marler often away, Kohn retired and Robson declined. Sinkler and Collier are both very good and young second choices, not quite ready to be the cornerstone of the pack. Lambert not quite good enough to be playing as often as he has. Mathews has been a good replacemnt for the 2012 Robson but Kohn has not been replaced. The front 5 is too often underpowered.

CoS has tried to recruit in the backs with the likes Botica and Swiel (?) neither delivering.

Quins have the base for a good squad. Horwill a good signing. Some extra quality is needed - but with quins at the cap where will the cash come from?

LondonTiger wrote:Quins have the base for a good squad. Horwill a good signing. Some extra quality is needed - but with quins at the cap where will the cash come from?

Bruce Craig is rumoured to have has some extra dosh laying around (off shore?).[/quote]

I only caught the last half hour of the Bath v Saints match, when the home team couldn't get out of their own half. They had a couple of decisions go against them - a quick lineout throw called back for not straight, and a scrum penalty when they looked on top - but they were often their own worst enemies for the part I saw.

I think I've seen Burgess play on four or five occasions, and I just can't see him having enough time to develop his game for World Cup selection. To be honest, at the rate he's going, he's not even in the frame for the Australia tour next year, although that's still a long way off.

He has mentioned himself how he finds it difficult to impose himself on the game. In League, you can make a decision to take the play-the-ball and get involved, but Burgess feels he has to wait a lot more in union. Even allowing for the fact that Bath use him as a decoy a good deal, he isn't standing out.

Ironically, his Bath team mates are making it harder for him to get into the England set-up. When Lancaster was looking primarily at Burrell, Tuilagi, Barritt, and Twelvetrees, you could imagine Burgess being an outside bet if Tuilagi was injured. Now That Joseph has stormed into contention, and Eastmond not out of the picture, the midfield is looking a lot more competitive.

I usually give players at least half a season before expecting anything from them. Given he's moved sports I'd expect a lot more than that. We'll see how he gets on after a proper pre-season but no way for the World Cup.

Burgess rocked up too late. He needed to get involved earlier if he wanted to make the RWC. He's an undoubted talent who just hasn't figured out how to get into a union game yet. It took SBW time at Toulon.

I guess when you add the rain and boggy pitch to two sides who have scored less tries than all bar LW - well it was always going to be that.

At least we move back into the top half of the table and just one point behind 3rd spot.

4 points separating places 2 to 7. Going to be an interesting finish to the season!

All below on 43 points

5th Sale PD 53
6th Tigers PD -17
7th Wasps PD 136 !

Well it wasn't pretty but at least we won. Losing Burns at half time was a massive blow and we lost any hint of back line fluidity. LI just didn't have a scrum which cost them the game in the conditions.

Jordan Crane gave a real captain's performance today.

Pretty poor game to be honest, think I should start to prepare to write this season off

nathan wrote:Pretty poor game to be honest, think I should start to prepare to write this season off

I did that before Christmas. Makes any gains that much better

It was a poor game, and the conditions did not help, but we have put in far too many performances like that this season.

LondonTiger wrote:

nathan wrote:Pretty poor game to be honest, think I should start to prepare to write this season off

I did that before Christmas. Makes any gains that much better

It was a poor game, and the conditions did not help, but we have put in far too many performances like that this season.

At least our players will have a better rest/pre-season than past seasons without being in the play offs

Just about warmed up after that. Not the greatest advert for Premiership rugby.

The Leicester match is the only one I managed to watch in its entirety this weekend. I'd count myself very unlucky, if it weren't for the fact that this might have been one of the poorest rounds of the season.

Don't you think it is frequently these matches which occur during the International windows, especially during the Six Nations in the heart of winter, which can be very poor? Always seems that way for me.

Having been at the ground yesterday, I have to say the conditions were a lot worse than they may have appeared on television, which certainly impacted on the game as a spectacle.

Fair play to Tigers, they came with a plan and stuck to it, milking their scrum dominance for penalties. That said, we still had the opportunities to win it, camped on the Tigers line a couple of times, but composure and execution let us down. Decision making also an issue for me. The particular incident that annoyed me was at 9-3 down and we get a penalty which we take at goal to make it 9-6. I agree taking the points was the pragmatic approach, but given the relative penalty counts it was unlikely we would win the game in multiples of 3 and would always need a try. At that point our driving game was going well and I would have gone to the corner, and said so at the time, so it's not a hindsight thing. Converted try then and a 10-9 lead would have been a very different final 20 minutes.

Rugby Fan wrote:The Leicester match is the only one I managed to watch in its entirety this weekend. I'd count myself very unlucky, if it weren't for the fact that this might have been one of the poorest rounds of the season.

Falcons/Wasps was an excellent game. First half of Bath/Saints was very good. Second half Saints just closed it down completely and Bath could not cope. LI/Leicester was indeed a poor spectacle. As Doc has said the weather often plays a part. Was dry at Newcastle, mixed at Bath and in Reading they were on a boggy mess in a monsoon.