Scarlets v Munster

First topic message reminder :

Only 14 players missing for the Scarlets this weekend.


Scarlets Munster
15. Jordan Williams 15. Felix Jones
14. Harry Robinson 14. Andrew Conway
13. Regan King 13. Keith Earls
12. Hadleigh Parkes 12. Denis Hurley (capt)
11. Michael Tagicakibau 11. Luke O'Dea
10. Steven Shingler 10. Ian Keatley
9. Aled Davies 9. Duncan Williams
1. Phil John 1. Dave Kilcoyne
2. Ken Owens ( 2. Kevin O'Byrne
3. Peter Edwards 3. Stephen Archer
4. Lewis Rawlins 4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Johan Snyman 5. Billy Holland
6. Aaron Shingler 6. Dave O'Callaghan
7. James Davies 7. Tommy O'Donnell
8. John Barclay 8. CJ Stander
Replacements
16. Ryan Elias 16. Eusebio Guinazu
17. Rob Evans 17. John Ryan
18. Jacobie Adriaanse 18. BJ Botha
19. George Earle 19. Jack O'Donoghue
20. Rob McCusker 20. Paddy Butler
21. Gareth Davies 21. Neil Cronin
22. Rhys Priestland 22. JJ Hanrahan
23. Adam Warren 23. Ivan Dineen

Griff wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Im not really sure why you are complaining about the tv deals and sponsorship given the big increases we recived in both of them this season after the Rabo debacle. Where is the next big increase going to come from? 39000 tuned in to watch the Ospreys v Munster match a few months ago... That is nothing.

How much was this "big increase" from Rabodirect to Guinness?

Chunky, why don't the Welsh Regions do something about the match day experience to attract people to the games and that way not be so dependent on sponsorship money.

A few Munster supporters were at the game at the weekend and all are saying it wasn't an experience you would be in a hurry to get back to. Said the Scarlets fans just whinged the whole time about the ref. It seems to be a Welsh national pastime now - whinging about refs.

And Scottish.  And English.  Irish?  Probably.  Actually, on these boards it seems the fans of the losing team generally whinges about the ref, in my experience.  Done in different ways though - some are more 'sly' about their whingeing.  I think the welsh are more 'hearts on their sleeves' whingers!

I'm only going on what people said who were at the match at the weekend (all ex-pats living in the UK who drove down for the game). Most of them would be used to going to games - but they all seemed to agreed that the vitriol at the game towards the ref was excessive.

I was just going on the 'welsh national pastime' comment. i.e. all of us, as a nation. My experience, on here, is that everyone does it. Just differently. The Scots being the latest ones, and boy did they go for it. I've never seen/read anything like it!

LondonTiger wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:Irish league run by Irish officials for the benefit of Irish teams, enough said.

Ahem, it's the Pro 12 league for the benefit of Irish, Italian, and Scottish teams.

So everyone but the Welsh?

Correct. I haven't met a Welsh fan yet who thinks the Pro12 benefits their teams. Secretly (or maybe not so secretly) they want to be in a league with English sides. None of this Celtic-Italo nonsense.

Sin e, when you think about it is amazing that Guiness even came on board given all that. I remember watching a game on S4C and the commentators actually said they want to see the pro12 become a developmemt league and the LV cup become the main competition!

Even their own comentators can't promote the league...

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Sin e, when you think about it is amazing that Guiness even came on board given all that. I remember watching a game on S4C and the commentators actually said they want to see the pro12 become a developmemt league and the LV cup become the main competition!

Even their own comentators can't promote the league...

Guinness are probably only there because of the Irish market and probably why the final (which is given over to the Sponsors for the day) is in Ireland.

This thread doesn't make for particularly great reading and there is certainly a few Welsh poster on here who actually support the pro12 (most Dragons fans). Thankfully Welsh fans aren't all like Chunky.

Interesting point about sponsoring and the final which HAS to be in Ireland but where does that leave Glasgow and Ospreys rugby wise?

Sin é wrote:

Guinness are probably only there because of the Irish market and probably why the final (which is given over to the Sponsors for the day) is in Ireland.

Sin...you're not helping  

Guinness are in it because of a market. They don't care whether it's Irish or Swahili.  
The Irish are in it to sustain rugby as a going concern in Ireland with a view to European contest, player development and on then to International

I'd assume that's what all the other nations are in the Pro12 for???

If the answer is affirmative, then the details of how they use the Pro12 to achieve those ends becomes their business.

You can't keep blaming an outside source for the 'seeming' failure of the project in any of these Nations.

Ireland and the IRFU had absolutely nothing to do with the virtual meltdown in relations between the regions and their Union all through most of last year.  We're not creating the tension, we're not involved in the internal solutions, we're not motivating the collapse from within between regions, clubs and the big bad WRU.

That's all Welsh business and it is certainly causing a stir in the whole idea of regionalism, professionalism, autonomy, sponsorship, player drain, player stay-home contracts etc etc

All this drama has gone on (in broad daylight all last year) and still goes on in the phoney peace silence that has broken out for a while - and yet it's the Irish who are still blamed for all that is wrong with the Pro12 and for the reasons it's supposedly not working for some and working for others?

VinceWLB wrote:This thread doesn't make for particularly great reading and there is certainly a few Welsh poster on here who actually support the pro12 (most Dragons fans). Thankfully Welsh fans aren't all like Chunky.

And in truth we all hopefully know that Vince.

But Chunky keeps changing the detail goalposts when reasoning, because as I always say, he simply doesn't want the Pro12 to exist - corrupt or completely clean. His prerogative but the 'corruption' taunt gets hard to take when it's repeated over and over .. and over.

VinceWLB wrote:This thread doesn't make for particularly great reading and there is certainly a few Welsh poster on here who actually support the pro12 (most Dragons fans). Thankfully Welsh fans aren't all like Chunky.

Interesting point about sponsoring and the final which HAS to be in Ireland but where does that leave Glasgow and Ospreys rugby wise?

TBF, I've only heard complaints about the Scarlets & Os. from people who have attended games in Wales. Dragons & Cardiff seem to be fairly welcoming.

Vince, Glasgow's stadium can't host a final and there is no way the Sponsors would allow it to be moved to one of the football stafiums. Now I certainly don't agree with the decision to put it in Ravenhill, especially since they only announced it a few weeks ago. But it shouldn't have any effect on Glasgow.

Vince - hosting the final will cost the hosting club/city. It seems Belfast Tourism is putting effort/money into hosting the Final in Belfast.

It was a big decision, one that i would have no problem at all to accept had it been announced before the 1st ball is being kicked. Didn't like one bit how the situation has been handled and it wouldn't look as bad if the top 3 Irish provinces were at the top.

We will see how that pans out but it could take the gloss out of a potential Ulster win.

I liked very much the incentive to get a home final.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:If Newspapers are to be belived then the Guiness deal is worth a couple of million more at least. Supposedly the Rabo deal was worth basically nothing. Remember there were a few companies bidding for the rights so it would have certainly been a good increase.

This is more Sin e's area. Im sure he could help us here.

Can you give me a link to one of those newspaper snippets?

Thanks.

SecretFly wrote:

Do the Welsh have representatives at the Pro12 table, Chunky?  They have four teams, do those teams get represented when the talking goes on  about the arrangements for the year ahead?  Are the WRU involved?   Does the Pro12 right now have a Welsh Chief Exec?

The Celtic accord is signed by the Unions only. And since our Union tried to get rid of the regions less than a year ago, you can guess how much they care about securing a good deal for the regions.

How does all this anti-Welsh stuff get played out in organisational terms, against the interests and will of all four Welsh Regions and the WRU?  Do the Welsh contingent show up and say they're not pleased by the Irish based Final, the 'Irish controlled' sponsorship agreements, the 'Irish biased' TV deals, the terrible TV led anti-Welsh sensitive kick-off times?

Yes, they've voiced concerns before. Especially the broadcasting figures. And we know how much the Ospreys supporters club was angered recently by the Ulster final venue debacle

Do the Welsh just leave it to the Irish to organise everything?  Are they afraid to step in when they think their interests aren't being served or respected?  Do the Welsh, of all people, just sit there and take it? - the orders, the commands, the being told to just shut up and do the IRFU bidding?

I suspect if they had the choice the regions would not be involved in the pro 12. I have still not seen what powers the PRW has over any league decisions if any. Something I'm not happy about and will attempt to address at our next supporters meeting.

This is the problem though, you are saying "The Welsh". Like it's one organisation.

VinceWLB wrote:It was a big decision, one that i would have no problem at all to accept had it been announced before the 1st ball is being kicked. Didn't like one bit how the situation has been handled and it wouldn't look as bad if the top 3 Irish provinces were at the top.

We will see how that pans out but it could take the gloss out of a potential Ulster win.

I liked very much the incentive to get a home final.

The League owns the final - they make their money to cover the running of the league on the gate money they get at the final. There is still an incentive for a home semi for the Top 2. I can't think of any league that doesn't have a neutral venue for the final.

It would be a financial disaster for the league if for instance a Welsh club got to host the final as no one would go to it.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Do the Welsh have representatives at the Pro12 table, Chunky?  They have four teams, do those teams get represented when the talking goes on  about the arrangements for the year ahead?  Are the WRU involved?   Does the Pro12 right now have a Welsh Chief Exec?

The Celtic accord is signed by the Unions only. And since our Union tried to get rid of the regions less than a year ago, you can guess how much they care about securing a good deal for the regions.

How does all this anti-Welsh stuff get played out in organisational terms, against the interests and will of all four Welsh Regions and the WRU?  Do the Welsh contingent show up and say they're not pleased by the Irish based Final, the 'Irish controlled' sponsorship agreements, the 'Irish biased' TV deals, the terrible TV led anti-Welsh sensitive kick-off times?

Yes, they've voiced concerns before. Especially the broadcasting figures. And we know how much the Ospreys supporters club was angered recently by the Ulster final venue debacle

Do the Welsh just leave it to the Irish to organise everything?  Are they afraid to step in when they think their interests aren't being served or respected?  Do the Welsh, of all people, just sit there and take it? - the orders, the commands, the being told to just shut up and do the IRFU bidding?

I suspect if they had the choice the regions would not be involved in the pro 12. I have still not seen what powers the PRW has over any league decisions if any. Something I'm not happy about and will attempt to address at our next supporters meeting.

This is the problem though, you are saying "The Welsh". Like it's one organisation.

Gerald Davies is the chairman of Celtic Rugby and Mark Davies (representing the regions) is also on the board.

Sin é wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Do the Welsh have representatives at the Pro12 table, Chunky?  They have four teams, do those teams get represented when the talking goes on  about the arrangements for the year ahead?  Are the WRU involved?   Does the Pro12 right now have a Welsh Chief Exec?

The Celtic accord is signed by the Unions only. And since our Union tried to get rid of the regions less than a year ago, you can guess how much they care about securing a good deal for the regions.

How does all this anti-Welsh stuff get played out in organisational terms, against the interests and will of all four Welsh Regions and the WRU?  Do the Welsh contingent show up and say they're not pleased by the Irish based Final, the 'Irish controlled' sponsorship agreements, the 'Irish biased' TV deals, the terrible TV led anti-Welsh sensitive kick-off times?

Yes, they've voiced concerns before. Especially the broadcasting figures. And we know how much the Ospreys supporters club was angered recently by the Ulster final venue debacle

Do the Welsh just leave it to the Irish to organise everything?  Are they afraid to step in when they think their interests aren't being served or respected?  Do the Welsh, of all people, just sit there and take it? - the orders, the commands, the being told to just shut up and do the IRFU bidding?

I suspect if they had the choice the regions would not be involved in the pro 12. I have still not seen what powers the PRW has over any league decisions if any. Something I'm not happy about and will attempt to address at our next supporters meeting.

This is the problem though, you are saying "The Welsh". Like it's one organisation.

Gerald Davies is the chairman of Celtic Rugby and Mark Davies (representing the regions) is also on the board.

So?

Mark Davies represents the Regions at board level.
Gerald Davies would also have a big say as chairman in how the organisation is run. Are you saying that Gerald & Mark are not representing the regions the way they want to be represented. It would be very strange if Mark Davies didn't have the interest of all the regions at heart?

The Irish Provinces are represented by the Munster CEO by the way and you don't hear the other provinces banging on about it (it used to be Mick Dawson, so they presumably rotate it between the CEOs of the Provinces).

Sin é wrote:Mark Davies represents the Regions at board level.
Gerald Davies would also have a big say as chairman in how the organisation is run. Are you saying that Gerald & Mark are not representing the regions the way they want to be represented. It would be very strange if Mark Davies didn't have the interest of all the regions at heart?

We are not told what powers they have. For example, have WRU retained Pro12 competition rights after their recent 6 year deal with RRW, I expect so. Which again puts the regions on the backfoot. Have agree to honour the Celtic Accord? Nobody knows just yet. Do PRW's rights to be in RCC stand independent of whether they compete in Pro 12?

What we do know is that only the Unions are signatories to the celtic accord. Which could be a good thing really, if they ever want to say, pursue other avenues.

The Irish Provinces are represented by the Munster CEO by the way and you don't hear the other provinces banging on about it (it used to be Mick Dawson, so they presumably rotate it between the CEOs of the Provinces).

No idea what that has to do with anything.

What do you mean by the WRU retained Pro12 competition rights?

You can only qualify for the Champs Cup through being in the top 6/7 of the league you play in.

I'm just showing how the representation works for the clubs/provinces - Wales & Ireland have one representative on the Board.

I think he means the 'banging on about it' bit. You seem to be implying that the Welsh regions are banging on about Mark Davies, or something?

Griff wrote:I think he means the 'banging on about it' bit. You seem to be implying that the Welsh regions are banging on about Mark Davies, or something?

No, I'm not. The Welsh Regions are well represented on the Board of Celtic Rugby with Mark Davies and with another popular Welshman holding the most important position on the board, yet it seems the Irish are somehow taking advantage of the Welsh! If anyone is being taken advantage of, its the Irish who actually have to put up with all of this Poopie emanating from the Welsh.

"The Irish Provinces are represented by the Munster CEO by the way and you don't hear the other provinces banging on about it (it used to be Mick Dawson, so they presumably rotate it between the CEOs of the Provinces)."

That's all I'm querying. You don't here the region's banging on about Mark Davies, so I'm not sure why you've included that, is all. Just trying to understand your point.

Griff wrote:"The Irish Provinces are represented by the Munster CEO by the way and you don't hear the other provinces banging on about it (it used to be Mick Dawson, so they presumably rotate it between the CEOs of the Provinces)."

That's all I'm querying. You don't here the region's banging on about Mark Davies, so I'm not sure why you've included that, is all. Just trying to understand your point.

It seems to me that Chucky does not realise that the Regions are well represented on the board of Celtic Rugby and if he has a problem with the venue of the final, Mark Davies & Gerald Davies are the ones to get onto about it.

Ah ok. Thought you were implying that the regions (as in board members, managers, coaches, etc.) were banging on about Mark Davies being on the board.

Sin é wrote:

The League owns the final - they make their money to cover the running of the league on the gate money they get at the final. There is still an incentive for a home semi for the Top 2. I can't think of any league that doesn't have a neutral venue for the final.

Super Rugby ?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:BREAKING! I just seen a SA ref was in charge of the Stomers v Blues game! Could SA be in on all this as well? The conspiracy grows deeper...

Fupp me, no disrespect but your Irish really are the biggest bunch of tools I have ever dealt with.  People may find it hard to like you because, lets face it never willing to let anything drop.

To be fair they have finally let the whole dropping BOD for an in-form (at the time, long time ago now...) JD2 thing go. Apart from Rodders, who I'm convinced is actually Keith Wood. I understand your frustrations on here with some of these dimwits SS, but you're better than this comment. If necessary just do a Notch by bringing out the red pen and sticking up for your fellow fans even if it does seem biased .

PenfroPete wrote:

Sin é wrote:

The League owns the final - they make their money to cover the running of the league on the gate money they get at the final. There is still an incentive for a home semi for the Top 2. I can't think of any league that doesn't have a neutral venue for the final.

Super Rugby ?

Its usually held in a large stadium in the country of the finalists (like say Saracens or Quinns play in Twickenham).

I hadn't intending commenting any further on this thread but feel I should as it seems Chunky Norwich has taken an awful lot of flak for something I said, my comment about it been an Irish controlled league was borne out of the frustration of been pulled back to the very unlikely event of a draw for the 3rd time this season, 3 out of just 15 games when the total for the league is 5 from 90 games, guess what the only connecting factors are in all 3 of those games!.
Which leads me to my next point. The flak Dudley Phillips took on Saturday was entirely of his own making, he must of forgotten that a proportion of every crowd will be wearing ref link radio's as to consistently shoo away the captain of 1 team whilst happily chatting to most the players in the other team is always going to cause raised eyebrows, add to that the fact that of several clear fumbled knocks on been called "backwards", the advantage over call that he then reversed and went back to as advantage Munster after they had kicked possession away, the fact he took an age to finally give in and give a yellow card for a clear stamp, that is been replayed on a 4 second loop on the big screen at the ground, despite been guided by the TMO to card him, for some reason Phillips just wanted to give a penalty and no card, don't forget this is after he has already let O' Callaghan of with a warning for a high tackle after grabbing the smallest player on the pitch by the neck from behind, even the issuing of a penalty for that offence took a linesmans intervention and several replays on the big screen as he was just letting it go. I could go on but I think I've made the point I was trying to especially considering he is the 1st official to be given the advantage of having Hawkeye to call on but from the view in the ground he did not use this new trial once.
As for his general control of the game it was non existent, he allowed no competition for the ball in the tackle area regardless of whether the incoming player was on their feet or not, clearing out off the ball was totally unpunished and formed a large part of the Munster game plan.
In hindsight I don't think he was truly biased towards Munster but more a case of as he is an Irish ref they were a lot more clued up on just how poor he is and knew exactly how to play him, something the Scarlet's definitely do have to get better at.
Before I originally posted on here I checked out the Munster fans forum, curious to know what they thought of his performance, it was interesting to see that the earliest comment on him after kick off was that he was poor but at least he was favouring them, after that most the comments just turned into insults aimed at Scarlet's fans with many a derogatory and racist remark aimed both at the Welsh in general but Primarily aimed at Llanelli, well this obviously improved my mood immeasurably and obviously increased my love for all things Irish.
So to Sin e and co I will just remind them about throwing stones in glass houses etc, and to posters on the Munster fans forum that I really can't be ars@d to join the site to reply to. Get a life.

"So to Sin e and co I will just remind them about throwing stones in glass houses etc, and to posters on the Munster fans forum that I really can't be ars@d to join the site to reply to. Get a life."

A very good example of said glass house, telling others to get a life when it is indeed yourself who should. Oh and grow up and get a grasp of reality. Professional referees for all their failings and idioms do not favour one side against another and if they did they would be reffing schools cup rugby.

Dudley Phillips is not the best referee in the world but he is not as bad as what is being made out on here. Part of forming a game plan is not just studying the opposition but also that of the referee and his assistants and knowing how to play them.

Sure, Munster got the rub of the green at times but so did Scarlets, they were constantly infringing at the rucks, not rolling away and generally slowing the ball down. Phillips showed Scarlets a rather large leniency in that regard. All in all, I saw no bias towards Munster.

As for Chunky, its the same every time, comes out making swinging comments and accusations of bias towards Irish sides with no explanations, its only after having his hand forced to explain himself that he then can do it in an appropriate manner.

It doesn't help proceedings on this site when you have a MOD (a Scarlets fan) chip in to describe Irish fans as 'Tools who are hard to like'. To me that is a despicable comment to make and shows a distinct lack of class.

Nachos Jones wrote:It doesn't help proceedings on this site when you have a MOD (a Scarlets fan) chip in to describe Irish fans as 'Tools who are hard to like'. To me that is a despicable comment to make and shows a distinct lack of class.

To be fair a witch hunt on specific posters for their view points is not acceptable either, neither are posts like "Watching welsh rugby teams at home is like watching the biggest whingefest ever...". That does indeed show as much of a 'distinct lack of class' as my comment. I have tried being reasonable with people, and tried to be polite about the worse officiating I have seen at a live game (by the full officiating team, not just Phillips) but that was just met with more ignorance, cries of outlandish theories. So sometime you need to fight fire with fire. I stand by my comment, and I will defend my opinion fully too.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:It doesn't help proceedings on this site when you have a MOD (a Scarlets fan) chip in to describe Irish fans as 'Tools who are hard to like'. To me that is a despicable comment to make and shows a distinct lack of class.

To be fair a witch hunt on specific posters for their view points is not acceptable either, neither are posts like "Watching welsh rugby teams at home is like watching the biggest whingefest ever...".  That does indeed show as much of a 'distinct lack of class' as my comment.  I have tried being reasonable with people, and tried to be polite about the worse officiating I have seen at a live game (by the full officiating team, not just Phillips) but that was just met with more ignorance, cries of outlandish theories.  So sometime you need to fight fire with fire.  I stand by my comment, and I will defend my opinion fully too.

If you feel that describing all Irish fans as 'Tools who are hard to like' then so be it I guess, I just prefer to confront individuals for making sweeping statements instead of returning in kind with personal insults against whole nations fans.

Good luck with it though, I hope it works for you

Nachos, your right a sweeping statement like All Irish fans, is not right, it would be the majority of the loudest fans. There are a number who are very likeable, I will adjust my post to suit that.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:It doesn't help proceedings on this site when you have a MOD (a Scarlets fan) chip in to describe Irish fans as 'Tools who are hard to like'. To me that is a despicable comment to make and shows a distinct lack of class.

To be fair a witch hunt on specific posters for their view points is not acceptable either, neither are posts like "Watching welsh rugby teams at home is like watching the biggest whingefest ever...".  That does indeed show as much of a 'distinct lack of class' as my comment.  I have tried being reasonable with people, and tried to be polite about the worse officiating I have seen at a live game (by the full officiating team, not just Phillips) but that was just met with more ignorance, cries of outlandish theories.  So sometime you need to fight fire with fire.  I stand by my comment, and I will defend my opinion fully too.

Exactly. As I keep saying elsewhere, nobody seems to mind breaking rules when it's directed at 'the Welsh.' Nachos a while ago I told an Ulster fan they were talking BS after she had claimed that 'Welsh teams constantly get away with cheating' - only to be told that I was the one out of line by an Irish mod. SS certainly isn't biased towards the Welsh, he's deleted my bloody posts in the past.

I said earlier in the thread Dudley Phillips did not seem to allow a fair contest at the breakdown, and for me that was an area that Scarlets had a clear advantage in. He was poor elsewhere too but not to the benefit of a single team. Disappointing as Phillips is supposedly one of our good officials. This league gets more rubbish every week - I think that's a fair comment to say.

The Saint,

You know I have always liked your posts, we actually have a very similar line of thinking in regards to the game. I just don't like sweeping accusations directed at fans from any country. Its a sign of an inability to form an intelligent retort.

I agree that the league is getting worse week by week and its a major concern but I do not buy into any conspiracy theories myself.

I actually enjoyed the game and even as a Munsterfan, was amazed at how Scarlets threw it away towards the end. It was around 7minutes of proper rugby implosion.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:BREAKING! I just seen a SA ref was in charge of the Stomers v Blues game! Could SA be in on all this as well? The conspiracy grows deeper...

Fupp me, no disrespect but the most vocal of Irish really are the biggest bunch of tools I have ever dealt with (I do not meant that every Irish person/fan is just the opinionated/vocal ones that taint my opinion of the rest).  People may find it hard to like you because, lets face it never willing to let anything drop.

I know you've modified the original post, Scarlet.

But I'm still pi-ssed!

Vocal Irish fans are tools?

So.........................em....................... by a process of elimination............................ em................... let me see....................................... (maths was never a strong point of mine)........................ and two is six and................... plus 7........................................em........................................................

.....................any Irish fan who opens their mouth in an opinionated way are the right bastards?  The deaf and dumb lads are fine?

Oh...................... not looking good there, Scarlet   .  We Irish are unfortunately bred to be mouthy and opinionated.  The numbers for deaf and dumb nice lads will be disappointing.

SecretFly wrote:  We Irish are unfortunatley bred to be mouthy and opinionated.  

It all originated in Co. Clare, I mean look at Keith Wood

Nachos Jones wrote:The Saint,

You know I have always liked your posts, we actually have a very similar line of thinking in regards to the game. I just don't like sweeping accusations directed at fans from any country. Its a sign of an inability to form an intelligent retort.

I agree that the league is getting worse week by week and its a major concern but I do not buy into any conspiracy theories myself.

I actually enjoyed the game and even as a Munsterfan, was amazed at how Scarlets threw it away towards the end. It was around 7minutes of proper rugby implosion.

Thanks Nachos, love your surname by the way. As a Wales fan I can tell you I dislike sweeping accusations as well, having been on the end of a few. I try not to do it to others, but sometimes it's easy to do so and one may not realise what they've posted until they've gone back later and read it.

Agree with your second point there 100%.

I enjoyed the game to an extent, but as usual I felt it was marred by some indecisions. That said, certainly one of the better Pro12 games recently. I thought Scarlets defence might actually hold out, but Munster were persistent. I think Munster will be in the final this year, they have the best depth in the league and that front row signing (from Arg) for next season will strengthen the pack. Botha still remains a liability though.

What make you think guys the league is getting worse? I don't think it's improving myself but i don't think it's getting worse either.

Standards of refereeing left a lot to be desired but i watch quite often top 14 and i can tell you refereeing is even worse there.

What i would like is seeing more from Mitrea, Vivarinni and Liperini. At least it would stop biais accusation and they are quite decent refs in my opinion. Also possibly get rid of TMO and install a screen near the pitch which the ref can consult.

Fly, you know exactly what I mean. Like I say its double standards, its acceptable to send out a sweeping statement about Welsh fans being whingers, yet it is not acceptable to call the Irish tool in a sweeping statement. Why?

p.s. I chose vocal over mouthy/opinionated/gobby, maybe I shouldn't have.

People have short memories. The league is 10 times better than it was. The standard has improved s lot over time.

The Welsh teams are not going good so some Welsh blame the league. When they were winning it they complained it was too easy and Irish teams were not trying!! So Welsh people, you can see why its irritating for others to listen to. Now there's a big Irish conspiracy!

profitius wrote:People have short memories. The league is 10 times better than it was. The standard has improved s lot over time.

The Welsh teams are not going good so some Welsh blame the league. When they were winning it they complained it was too easy and Irish teams were not trying!! So Welsh people, you can see why its irritating for others to listen to. Now there's a big Irish conspiracy!

AAAAGGGGGHHHHH Sweeping statement, everyone grab those pitchforks and start up the witch hunt I'm not sure I heard too much grumbling about the Irish not trying in the league when we were winning, well when the Ospreys were winning it and the rest of us were getting beaten.

The league is improving, and it has been season upon season since the start. However the officiating is really starting to get beyond, and it does appear to be something that ALL fans of the pro12 teams complain about. The standard of some of the officials is shocking, not just the refs, but the linesmen and TMOs. Even when there is a good ref in the middle (and up until this weekend I would have classed Phillips as one of the best in the league), they need to be supported by good quality linesmen and TMOs, as the ref really can not be expected to see and do everything all alone. Once we get that stumbling block sorted, then the 'product' on the pitch will stand out again.

profitius wrote:People have short memories. The league is 10 times better than it was. The standard has improved s lot over time.

The Welsh teams are not going good so some Welsh blame the league. When they were winning it they complained it was too easy and Irish teams were not trying!! So Welsh people, you can see why its irritating for others to listen to. Now there's a big Irish conspiracy!

That's a load of BS. No welsh person has ever said that, as only one welsh team has done well in the league. The complaints about the Irish not trying was from England fans when their teams kept getting thrashed by Irish ones. The league is poor because of the officiating which has gone backwards, that's all people are saying. Stop making sh*t up because you're looking like a muppet right now.

The Saint wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:BREAKING! I just seen a SA ref was in charge of the Stomers v Blues game! Could SA be in on all this as well? The conspiracy grows deeper...

Fupp me, no disrespect but your Irish really are the biggest bunch of tools I have ever dealt with.  People may find it hard to like you because, lets face it never willing to let anything drop.

To be fair they have finally let the whole dropping BOD for an in-form (at the time, long time ago now...) JD2 thing go. Apart from Rodders, who I'm convinced is actually Keith Wood. I understand your frustrations on here with some of these dimwits SS, but you're better than this comment. If necessary just do a Notch by bringing out the red pen and sticking up for your fellow fans even if it does seem biased .

Well maybe its time some Welsh fans got over Sam Warburton correctly getting a red card from Allain Rolland. Isn't that where all this 'Irish refs are cheats' has come from?

Sin é wrote:

The Saint wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:BREAKING! I just seen a SA ref was in charge of the Stomers v Blues game! Could SA be in on all this as well? The conspiracy grows deeper...

Fupp me, no disrespect but your Irish really are the biggest bunch of tools I have ever dealt with.  People may find it hard to like you because, lets face it never willing to let anything drop.

To be fair they have finally let the whole dropping BOD for an in-form (at the time, long time ago now...) JD2 thing go. Apart from Rodders, who I'm convinced is actually Keith Wood. I understand your frustrations on here with some of these dimwits SS, but you're better than this comment. If necessary just do a Notch by bringing out the red pen and sticking up for your fellow fans even if it does seem biased .

Well maybe its time some Welsh fans got over Sam Warburton correctly getting a red card from Allain Rolland. Isn't that where all this 'Irish refs are cheats' has come from?  

Hey we will get over it when you get over the whole Umaga thing.

Saint, I think we are banging our heads against a brick wall. The Welsh complain about every thing, and it is perfectly fine to class us all as one, as we are all moaning whingers. There is no point in trying to differentiate between us, after all we are all down the same pit, eating our leaks

Stepping away from this now...

I like Leaks.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Sin é wrote:

The Saint wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:BREAKING! I just seen a SA ref was in charge of the Stomers v Blues game! Could SA be in on all this as well? The conspiracy grows deeper...

Fupp me, no disrespect but your Irish really are the biggest bunch of tools I have ever dealt with.  People may find it hard to like you because, lets face it never willing to let anything drop.

To be fair they have finally let the whole dropping BOD for an in-form (at the time, long time ago now...) JD2 thing go. Apart from Rodders, who I'm convinced is actually Keith Wood. I understand your frustrations on here with some of these dimwits SS, but you're better than this comment. If necessary just do a Notch by bringing out the red pen and sticking up for your fellow fans even if it does seem biased .

Well maybe its time some Welsh fans got over Sam Warburton correctly getting a red card from Allain Rolland. Isn't that where all this 'Irish refs are cheats' has come from?  

Hey we will get over it when you get over the whole Umaga thing.

You didn't know that Tana was shortlisted to become Munster coach 3 years ago then (when Rob Penney took it). He was offered the backs coach job but he wanted a head coach one!

You do realise that Sam was correctly Red Carded, don't you? The Welsh problem with Rolland is that he didn't turn a blind eye. At least Tana didn't get any death threats from us.