Rynard Landman straight red for elbowing Jack Carty

First topic message reminder :

Bit of a shocker, he'll be out for a while and probably cost his team this match, they only lost by 5 points despite playing most of the game with 14 men.

http://gfycat.com/HonestTinyIberianchiffchaff

ScarletSpiderman,

I really dislike players playing with those protective armguards. I think that they can be very dangerous to opposing players in contact.

Its hard to punish a ref if they didn't get a good sight of the incident but if they have, even after using the TMO, then there should be a point system introduced (maybe there is already) whereby after missing a set amount of incidents, all their recent performances are reviewed and possibly put into some extra training.

Nachos, if there was insufficient angles for the ref to see the incident, there will be insufficient angles to ban/cite. Whereas if there are enough angles to cite/ban then the TMO and ref would have those angles available too. And if there is a ban then that means it was a red card offence, and both TMO/Ref should have to explain, ideally publically, why they made the decision they did.

I think we are saying the same thing, although I didn't say explain literally. I believe if a ref, as mentioned above, misses (fails to punish) a set amount of incidents then he should be reviewed. In this review he would be asked to explain himself as to his thoughts on every missed or incorrect decision. That's when a panel may decide to place a ref into further training.

Nachos Jones wrote:I think we are saying the same thing, although I didn't say explain literally. I believe if a ref, as mentioned above, misses (fails to punish) a set amount of incidents then he should be reviewed. In this review he would be asked to explain himself as to his thoughts on every missed or incorrect decision. That's when a panel may decide to place a ref into further training.

Nachos, in the past I've been very complimentary to Lacey, I've mentioned on a few occasions that he is one of the best officials in the NH, in this incident he asked the advice of the TMO who was the ex International Referee Derek Bevan, who after a couple of viewings was leaning towards some sort of sanction, the incident was also shown on the big screens on either side of the ground, that Lacey was looking at, he then went on to overrule Bevan, IMO this was again a poorly officiated game, NOT only was Lacey at fault, yet again the offside line was ignored not only by the players, but by the touch judges, who should have been and in fact were in the perfect position on a number of occasions to enforce this law, the disciplinary panel, should NOT only be impartial, but be SEEN to be impartial, for this instance there shouldn't be any IRISH or WELSH involvement.

Its a difficult one wayne, I am not for officials calling for TMO assistance and then overruling them. It does leave a bad taste in my mouth. I agree that there should be neutrals but are there enough around to have neutrals at every match? That to me is a big issue as well.

Nachos Jones wrote:Its a difficult one wayne, I am not for officials calling for TMO assistance and then overruling them. It does leave a bad taste in my mouth. I agree that there should be neutrals but are there enough around to have neutrals at every match? That to me is a big issue as well.

Entirely agree Nachos, the big bee in the ointment has been the sheer incompetence, of practically every Scottish Referee that has been involved since the Celtic League was set up, the first season I went to watch the Ospreys, we were playing an Irish province and we scored a try and converted it close to the 80th minute that made US 1 or 2 points behind, we then forced the restart back behind the try line and it was a 22 drop out, they passed the ball twice on the 22 metre line to get an advantage, the Scottish ref gave us a penalty which ensured we won the game, it was ludicrous, something really needs to be done.

wayne wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Its a difficult one wayne, I am not for officials calling for TMO assistance and then overruling them. It does leave a bad taste in my mouth. I agree that there should be neutrals but are there enough around to have neutrals at every match? That to me is a big issue as well.

Entirely agree Nachos, the big bee in the ointment has been the sheer incompetence, of practically every Scottish Referee that has been involved since the Celtic League was set up, the first season I went to watch the Ospreys, we were playing an Irish province and we scored a try and converted it close to the 80th minute that made US 1 or 2 points behind, we then forced the restart back behind the try line and it was a 22 drop out, they passed the ball twice on the 22 metre line to get an advantage, the Scottish ref gave us a penalty which ensured we won the game, it was ludicrous, something really needs to be done.

Could not agree more. Ref's seem (to me anyways) to be getting worse but as I said, there is a serious lack of competent ref's around now.

I have no issue, as such, with having non-neutral refs at games. I would rather have the best ref possible. However I am start to feel a bit aggrieved that when there are some really poor calls (for or against us) that the officials are not seen to be called up to answer to them. I believe there are reviews of officials, and they do get marked up or down due to such calls, but if a ref does something like Lacey in the incident in question, then he should have to publically answer for it, and explain his decision.

As for over ruling the TMO it all depends, the Blues V Treviso the TMO was calling for a tackle in the air which was clearly not, and the ref overruled it. In the Scarlets V Ulster game the ref used the TMO for the Nick Williams clearout and went against the lineman's call for a yellow, and later on went to the TMO and decided that Wilson's contact with Barclay's nose at the maul was accidental (and was later cited). Personally I watched the incidents and could understand his decisions, but should Wilson be banned, I would like to see Ben Whitehouse (who I praised for having a good game) come forward and say why he thought it was accidental.

I just think that doing this publically, rather than during their reviews with their bosses, would make things clearer to the generally rugby fan, and possibly help reduce the amount of fans who see a ref from the oppositions nation and think 'oh we are shafted here'.

wayne wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Its a difficult one wayne, I am not for officials calling for TMO assistance and then overruling them. It does leave a bad taste in my mouth. I agree that there should be neutrals but are there enough around to have neutrals at every match? That to me is a big issue as well.

Entirely agree Nachos, the big bee in the ointment has been the sheer incompetence, of practically every Scottish Referee that has been involved since the Celtic League was set up, the first season I went to watch the Ospreys, we were playing an Irish province and we scored a try and converted it close to the 80th minute that made US 1 or 2 points behind, we then forced the restart back behind the try line and it was a 22 drop out, they passed the ball twice on the 22 metre line to get an advantage, the Scottish ref gave us a penalty which ensured we won the game, it was ludicrous, something really needs to be done.

That was Patterson against Connacht was it? Definitely the worst call I have ever seen in my life.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

wayne wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Its a difficult one wayne, I am not for officials calling for TMO assistance and then overruling them. It does leave a bad taste in my mouth. I agree that there should be neutrals but are there enough around to have neutrals at every match? That to me is a big issue as well.

Entirely agree Nachos, the big bee in the ointment has been the sheer incompetence, of practically every Scottish Referee that has been involved since the Celtic League was set up, the first season I went to watch the Ospreys, we were playing an Irish province and we scored a try and converted it close to the 80th minute that made US 1 or 2 points behind, we then forced the restart back behind the try line and it was a 22 drop out, they passed the ball twice on the 22 metre line to get an advantage, the Scottish ref gave us a penalty which ensured we won the game, it was ludicrous, something really needs to be done.

That was Patterson against Connacht was it?  Definitely the worst call I have ever seen in my life.

No SS, this was in our first or second season at the Liberty and there hasn't been a decent Scottish ref since, I agree with your sentiments on Pratterson, a total embarrassment.

I remember the incident, because my old man was fuming that only the Ospreys could get dumb luck like that (and I remember it was a while ago, as we were almost competition for you back then).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I remember the incident, because my old man was fuming that only the Ospreys could get dumb luck like that (and I remember it was a while ago, as we were almost competition for you back then).

SS, my memory is deceiving me, after doing a bit of research, it turned out to be Connacht, yet we hadn't scored a try, all our points came from kicks, and the final one was as I set it out, and the referee was Rob Dickson, he was another useless Referee.

Ah, I knew it was a something-son lol.