2015 World Cup

First topic message reminder :

March

Semi-finals

24 Semi-final 1, South Africa v New Zealand, Auckland (01:00 GMT)

26 Semi-final 2, India v Australia, Sydney (03:30 GMT)

Final

29 Final, Melbourne (05:30 BST)

Looking bad for England. Taylor gone and England now 133/5 off 30.

143 needed off the last 20 or 5 wickets (I doubt England will lose and not be all out).

Often said that a weakness of Bangladesh's game in ODIs is that they don't have the ability to finish off and win games. Whilst that might help most opponents, England are not that different ....

Talent isnt a massive issue.

Tactics and being completely mentally fragile are.

God the power buttler has amazes me every time

I agree mystiroakey, the captaincy should have been changed way earlier or not at all. Morgan was never the right choice, said it when there were rumblings of him being made ODI captain a few years back.

For me, they either stayed with Cook or made Root the captain, Root is a far more attacking player and has a much better cricketing brain than Morgan. Doesn't matter much now as I think that England will/should revamp after this CWC. There are more than enough young talented players around in England to rebuild a decent team.

Go on butters

Eng CHOKING...and heading towards a 200 a.o
can someone demonstrate nerves of steel and pull them out now

Buttler lending some hope. Delicious boundaries.

Olly wrote:God the power buttler has amazes me every time

Yeah, that's a significant reason why we are still in this game ...

England seem to always die out in the middle overs. This may or may not be because in international cricket the middle overs are twenty five overs long, while the middle overs in county are fifteen overs long. Just a theory mind you.

A win is still possible from here. Bangladesh will tighten up, and Root is your best player. The run rate isnt so out of control, he can get there himself if he has someone to stick around with him. Or at least he can do the bulk of the heavy lifting.

I would take the PP immediately after this over and tell Buttler to just go for it.

Buttler should not go bezerk in the PP. Its like the definition of a bad idea.

Raf - the domestic one day tournament in England is now 50 overs (from 2014, I think it was). Mind you, the reason for this wasn't the ECB wanting to bring things in line with ODIs but Sky insisting on longer coverage for their televised games!

50 runs for no loss of wicket is so important in this PP.

kingraf wrote:Buttler should not go bezerk in the PP. Its like the definition of a bad idea.

Raf - agreed. England can still win this in 15 overs. They can only lose it in 5.

kingraf wrote:No wait... I forgot they havent played NZ yet.

If the (un)thinkable happens tonight then I thought you are more likely to play SL in Syd. (would be a cracker!)
Probably India v Banga in Melb.

under lights the ball just nibbles a bit off the seam

Root gone.

Might as well gun it now: all or nothing time.

I've been saying for more than 2 years that Woakes' batting has more potential than his bowling. Time for him to prove me right ....

Still winnable but I have to say that I think its now curtains for England.

Dismal world cup from them.

Embarrassing. Morgan should never of been captain.

Mark Robinson should take charge of the ODI team, leave Moores for test cricket.

The shadow of KP now looming even larger as an impending return.

Seriously KP_fan? He hasn't done much in ODI's for a long time. I would still say that he is an option for the T20 team but not remotely for the ODI team. Backward step in my opinion.

He would be a decent option TBH. This English team is rank. Even formless 2014 model Cook was a better opener than the two England have gone with. The Hales experiment has failed, and there cannot be any doubt that Pietersen at least offered the hope, however fleeting of genuine magoc

It's hard in this innings to really pinpoint what's gone wrong.

People by and large have just gotten themselves out to decent but not extraordinary balls, and playing ordinary but not hopeless shots. A series of what we call "nothing wickets" which is possibly the worst type of wicket to lose - you're not trying to do something particularly positive, you just... get out.

England can still win this. Bangladesh may get a bit tight (a couple of misfields in this situation really could turn the momentum around), and Buttler certainly has the quality. Woakes, Jordan are able as well.

I do think England approach the middle-overs the wrong way - the attitude seems to be to given themselves a chance. The issue with their approach today was always going to be that if they did lose wickets, then all of a sudden they're behind the 8-ball, and they can't afford those couple of quiet overs.

I commented during the tri-series that it was interesting how Australia (and Sri Lanka yesterday) went about chasing big targets: it was more about trying to keep up with the rate throughout, even if that meant losing a couple more wickets than ideal, because if you then took a couple of quiet overs at some point you were sufficiently in the game still. If England were (say) 200-6 at this point rather than 180 you'd fancy them more.

30 balls in a batting power play with England's most attacking batsman in, what do England get. Not one boundary and only 20 runs and even lost the wicket of Root. This is absolutely pish from England and they truly deserve to go out now. Appalling to say the least.

Excellent over, the 40th, bowled by Mortaza. Just the 3 singles to finish a fine spell of 2/48 from the wounded warrior.

Pressure really mounting. 95 off the last 10 although Buttler starts it with a 6. If he's there at the close, England can still win.

Aaahh it was a ploy by Buttler, wait until the PP was over before hitting out

Butler, Woakes, Braod and Jordan....and 84 runs between them...it's doable very much so

Gonna be a few Irish chaps chuckling if Morgan gets (rightly) dropped and Ireland qualify for the quarters on top!

kingraf wrote:He would be a decent option TBH. This English team is rank. Even formless 2014 model Cook was a better opener than the two England have gone with. The Hales experiment has failed, and there cannot be any doubt that Pietersen at least offered the hope, however fleeting of genuine magoc

I guess the point is that he couldnt be as bad.

The problem is he wouldnt guarantee his availability beyond major tournaments, cant guarantee his long term fitness ( or even his fitness for this tournament when the squad was picked) and wont do anything to change the medium to long term fortunes England have in a format they will be largely ignoring for the next year anyway

Aside form that its a no brainer to rush him back into the ODi squad as soon as they can. So long as they dont mind Broad and co quitting (which maybe wouldnt be too bad a thing)

Only in England would you have a player like Buttler batting at 7.....

Once the dust settles on this disaster, we need to build the team around him and Root.

Woakes doing a decent job at the moment. His task is ''Don't do anything daft and give the strike to Jos''. He can do that until about the 45th and then go for broke himself. Jordan isn't particularly cultured with the willow but he can biff it from the start.

As long as Buttler stays there, I put England ahead ....

I honestly fail to see what KP would bring to this team should he return after the world cup? He is not the youngest anymore, has/was in poor ODI form before being dropped in the first place.

England should get a dynamic coach in, Collingwood? They have the young players to form a decent team around Root. Looking back is not the way forward in my opinion.

Gooseberry wrote:
I guess the point is that he couldnt be as bad.

Well, that's pretty much what I (and others) were saying about Morgan vs Cook a while back.

Things can always be worse.

This has been a good partnership. Bangladesh will be getting more and more nervous.

We need to build for the next World Cup from here. KP is not the answer to that, he will be 38 by then.

Get some new faces in and build a team starting from the next tournament. Give the new players a run of games to establish themselves without the fear of being dropped for one bad performance so Ian Bell can be brought in to replace them.

Still a bit of an ask for one man. Showing great ability under pressure though.

Amazing genuinely amazing that we bat someone with the talent of Buttler at 7

VTR wrote:We need to build for the next World Cup from here. KP is not the answer to that, he will be 38 by then.

Same age as Dishan I take it? A little younger than Misbah, whose basically kept Pakistan in this thing?

Olly wrote:Amazing genuinely amazing that we bat someone with the talent of Buttler at 7

It gets really cool, when you always only just lose all big matches... but dont move him up because he averages (insert hugh number here) batting at seven.

kingraf wrote:

VTR wrote:We need to build for the next World Cup from here. KP is not the answer to that, he will be 38 by then.

Same age as Dishan I take it? A little younger than Misbah, whose basically kept Pakistan in this thing?

These players haven't acted in the same way as Pietersen though. This is why he's not out there now.

Mike Selig wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:
I guess the point is that he couldnt be as bad.

Well, that's pretty much what I (and others) were saying about Morgan vs Cook a while back.

Things can always be worse.

Sad but true!

Morgans average in just over a year since the West Indies game is 18.88 SR 0.72 in 26 innings. That includes Scotland twice.

His form is rank beyond reason.

This is like a R16 match essentially, both sides will be fully aware of that. At this point it isnt a sporting endeavour, but a mental one. Who cracks first?

kingraf wrote:

VTR wrote:We need to build for the next World Cup from here. KP is not the answer to that, he will be 38 by then.

Same age as Dishan I take it? A little younger than Misbah, whose basically kept Pakistan in this thing?

True but those two have generally been very consistent through the years and KP hasn't. A true match winner when on song but equally very bad when not.

I firmly believe that its time for England to rebuild for the future, there are several players in this side and in the county setup to form the basis of a very good team.

guildfordbat wrote:Woakes doing a decent job at the moment. His task is ''Don't do anything daft and give the strike to Jos''. He can do that until about the 45th and then go for broke himself. Jordan isn't particularly cultured with the willow but he can biff it from the start.

As long as Buttler stays there, I put England ahead ....

And Woakes takes 7 off the first 3 balls off the 46th - looking good for England in terms of today's result ....

Olly wrote:Amazing genuinely amazing that we bat someone with the talent of Buttler at 7

He can do this but more often than not fails. Its coming in at the end that gives him the freedom to play this way. They had Hales at the top of the order (worlds best T20 batsman etc) and he failed to do much. They have Ali at the top who either blazes away and gets out cheaply or tries to preserve his wicket and play properly,and gets out cheaply.
Hes best off being placed as a finisher, and as its taands will have been expected to bat for a fair proportion of the innings.

... and it wasn't meant to a jinx!

Another innings now needed from Woakes ....

guildfordbat wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Woakes doing a decent job at the moment. His task is ''Don't do anything daft and give the strike to Jos''. He can do that until about the 45th and then go for broke himself. Jordan isn't particularly cultured with the willow but he can biff it from the start.

As long as Buttler stays there, I put England ahead ....

And Woakes takes 7 off the first 3 balls off the 46th - looking good for England in terms of today's result ....

kingraf wrote:

VTR wrote:We need to build for the next World Cup from here. KP is not the answer to that, he will be 38 by then.

Same age as Dishan I take it? A little younger than Misbah, whose basically kept Pakistan in this thing?

Yes but they are exceptions rather than the rule. And KP was not in good form for a couple of years. A case of becoming a better player when out of the side.

Well that's really it now you feel.

kingraf wrote:Still a bit of an ask for one man. Showing great ability under pressure though.

Havent called one wrong so far today. Could put these damn commentators to shame