Benetton Treviso v Edinburgh Rugby 7th March

                        
Benetton Treviso   v   Edinburgh Rugby
Saturday 7th March 2015
KO: 7pm local time (6pm UK & Ireland).
Stadio Monigo

TV - Alba & Nuvolari
Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU, 120th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Guiseppe Vivarini, Claudio Blessano (both FIR)
Citing Commissioner: Stefano Marrama (FIR)
TMO: Carlo Damasco (FIR)

Last 3 Matches - Treviso      

1/3/15      Connacht 53 - 5 Treviso
20/2/15    Treviso 40 - 24 Blues
13/2/15     Ulster        43 - 3 Treviso

Last 3 Matches - Edinburgh

1/3/15     Blues        21 - 15 Edinburgh
20/2/15   Edinburgh 17 - 20 Ulster
13/2/15   Edinburgh 24 - 16 Ospreys

Given our run of form of late I don't want to make any assumptions here, but I would be hopeful of getting a result.

Well looking at Treviso's form they are absolutely guff away from home, relatively competent at home, so this game could be more difficult than first thought.

Saying that, the we are going to have most of our Scotland players back, and they should make a big difference.  Not least with Sam Hidalgo-Clyne doing the goal kicking!

Assuming Heathcote and Burleigh are injured, I reckon we'll see:

1 Sutherland
2 Cochrane
3 Nel
4 Bresler
5 Toolis
6 Coman
7 Grant/Watson
8 Denton

0 H-C
10 Tonks
11 Visser
12 Scott
13 Beard
14 Fife
15 Cuthbert

Subs - Shiells, McInally, Andress, Atkins, Grant/Watson, Hart, Te Rure, Strauss


With no real preference on who plays at openside.  Orders from on high may be to pick Watson though.

McInally maybe deserves a chance to start, but Cochrane has been one of our better players recently.

A team like that should certainly have more than enough for Treviso, but I wouldn't put it past us to still lose this.

That would be my team as well (other than switching Strauss for Tom Brown), and I suspect Cotter will want Watson to start. What we really need is Visser to score another try or two, get his confidence back up and running.

We can certainly lose this, particularly given the performances in the last two games. Hopefully the Scotland returnees will provide a shot in the arm, and Toolis and Watson will I'm sure feel they have plenty to prove after the Italy debacle.

Visser to score a brace on sat!

Just saying!

tigertattie wrote:Visser to score a brace on sat!

Just saying!

Won't matter. It seems that tries/points are secondary to making tackles and completing 80 minutes with a low error count.

What's happened to Blake? He seems to have slipped under the radar....
Did he play on Sunday?

Anglobraveheart wrote:What's happened to Blake? He seems to have slipped under the radar....
Did he play on Sunday?

Think he played once, looked ok if nothing to write home about, and then fell behind Grant and Watson in the pecking order. He's no John Barclay.

So it seems a bit of a waste of time picking him for the National squad in the first place, when he's third choice at Edinburgh??

I'm losing a bit of faith in VC tbh.
* No plan B on Saturday (SHC should have been on at 53 mins, when it was obviously that Gl was stuck in slow-mo.
* No efforts to combat the mauls.
* No leadership devolvement, "who is your captain please?". And why ask PH to take a place kick when he hasn't done all afternoon?
* Random SQ bodies being brought in to cause upset and disharmony.

Or maybe I'm being too critical?

Still very early days for Vern Cotter in my opinion and he's done some good things. For starters our back line at least looks like they've actually met before and he's gone straight for the likes of Grayx2, Harley, Russell and Bennett, which although startlingly obvious is not how Williams, Hadden and Robinson used to do things. He's also made improvements to the scrum and lineout, both areas which Scott Johnson worked hard to ruin.

Still, much work remains. The breakdown skills are still woeful, and as you suggest, he's made some poor errors of judgment around squad selection. His starting XV has usually been fairly on the money, but there are just too many better players being omitted from the wider squad, meaning that standards at training are not what they could be.

Still, I don't actually think we should be too negative. Edinburgh have greatly improved this season, even if we've let a whole bunch of points slip away. We've been far more physical and competitive, and once the likes of Te Rure, Atiga, Strauss and McLennan are shipped out permanently, and an attacking 15 installed, then I think we'll be a top 6 side. Glasgow as usual are highly competitive and will most likely make another play-off. Scotland's results haven't been good but the style of play is on the upward trajectory and we are at least now threatening sides. We ran France close and Gatland admitted after the Wales game that this was the strongest Scotland side he had faced. He doesn't dish out compliments easily does Warren, and I agree with him.

Chin up.

Think I'm just a bit wary of another embarrassing performance.
After last years debacle in Cardiff, I'm actually going to watch the Wales Ireland game in a fortnight, as I couldn't bear the thought of another weekend spoiled by the sole purpose of going away.......
I'll be watching the match v England in a pub in Cardiff with my two English mates, my Welsh mate and 150 or so 'new' Welsh mates.

How I hope it's a good and worthwhile trip..............

For me the biggest improvement has been from Edinburgh this season.

Although they lost their last 2 games they should have won, they are far more competitive and agressive than they were in previous years. In short, they are exactly where Solomons said they would be and he deserves a lot of credit for that. Plus they beat Muster away which was pretty great.

That's it though...nothing else worth mentioning about their season..

funnyExiledScot wrote:Gatland admitted after the Wales game that this was the strongest Scotland side he had faced. He doesn't dish out compliments easily does Warren, and I agree with him.

Chin up.

That doesn't mean s h i t, we were still beaten.

Anglobraveheart wrote:What's happened to Blake? He seems to have slipped under the radar....
Did he play on Sunday?

The usual cameo under Solomons, which means he only played for 3 minutes.

cakeordeath wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Gatland admitted after the Wales game that this was the strongest Scotland side he had faced. He doesn't dish out compliments easily does Warren, and I agree with him.

Chin up.

That doesn't mean s h i t, we were still beaten.

Really? I had no idea.

My chin is up, but I felt very disappointed with Saturdays performance, for the first time since VC took the reins. I just hope that the moody deadpan delivery isn't just another Scott Johnson type foible to distract everyone.
Our scrummaging has been flaky for a few years now, which seems to go hand in hand with the time the incumbent scum and forwards coaches have been with us. I've never been convinced by Cuttita or the Welsh fella. (Maybe I'm on the wrong thread here? Apologies, I think this is a delayed rant....)
But, I would have hoped that we should have changed those guys by now.

Saturdays tame offering was poor up front. Where've the teeth gone? I don't mean Hamilton ballooning around with his penalty and yellow card extravaganza, but some nuggetty, hard hitting, granite faced, grizzly, uncompromising set of attitudes that don't take any messing and play like a well organised military tuned set of assassins.
NOT a rabble of forwards that look like a set of lie down and stroke me pet cats.
There was just no steel.
They all need to grow a set.

On the steel front, Bob Harley not being himself has been a problem, as is the fact that we are carrying Johnnie Beattie plus Swinson's lack of bulk. We had some endeavour against Italy but they just seemed bigger, nastier and more powerful on the day.

fes, i don't see what some are seeing in Swinson he isn't tall enough to be a good lineout operator neither is he big enough to help the scrum. Did i mention he is a penalty machine? Him and Horne are the kind of players that shouldn't be anywhere near the national team.

I don't think Harley was that bad, he isn't the most flamboyant flanker outhere but did ok. Beattie and Laidlaw, the most experienced guys were liabilities, the sooner they get dropped, the better.

Harley hasnt recoved his great form of the AI's, but I think that's down to there being more work to do with a missing RG and a poorly performing Beattie.
Horne is fourth choice No10, and gave it his best shot behind a struggling pack and with ponderous service from Laidlaw. I still think it's unfair to knock Horne. He just shouldnt have been given the ball at the end. Poor management caused that.

Swinson has been a fantastic signing for Glasgow, and rarely puts in a bad performance. He's strong, technically good at the breakdown, tackles his heart out and puts in a huge shift. Put him with the likes of Naka, Strauss and Harley and you have a really robust pack.

I should also add that based on his Glasgow form I was entirely in favour of him being given a chance at international rugby. He deserved a shot.

However, what we have seen is that against international teams who all seem to have 6ft5+ and 18st5+ locks, he isn't as effective. Whilst his performances may have been ok to rid us of the Ruck Inspector, up against players like Jonny Gray, Richie Gray, Gilschrist and Toolis, he just doesn't have the height and grunt to successfully compete.

Still, cracking club player for Glasgow to have.

Team is up

Sutherland, McInally, Nel, Bresler, Toolis, Coman, Watson, Denton
Sam H-C, Tonks, Strauss, Scott (13), Visser, Fife & Cuthbert

Bench - Cochrane, Sheills, Andress, Atkins, Grant, Fowles, McLennan & Beard

Great team with the exception of you know who.

Solomons legacy is going to be defined by his baffling continuous selection of Strauss.

Scott is the best 12 in the squad, and beard has been playing well at 13 - why change everything to bring Strauss in??

Delighted to see McInally start.  He's been the best Edinburgh player on the pitch the last 2 games.  Not that that says a huge amount.  

He's looking like a more agile Ross Ford and seems to be finding loads of space.  Reminds a bit of DuPreez with his all round skill set but less likely to go for contact.

Generally a good team, although as mentioned, the selection of the centre pairing is baffling. As you've both said, McInally has had a good couple of games, particularly against Cardiff. If he can prove over the remainder of the season that he has the fundamental skills a hooker needs (consistent and accurate throwing and hooking), then he is in with a shout of making the WC squad because he adds a dynamism that Ford doesn't have.

Back to Edinburgh, however, the selection of Fowles is interesting, in that he appears to have been picked ahead of Hart. I know we signed Fowles on loan from Sale, so I'm guessing he isn't SQ? He did have a good appearance off the bench against Cardiff so he may be a useful addition.


Edit: just saw the news about Kennedy - bad luck for him really, but hopefully he'll be back playing whilst the WC is ongoing.

Kennedy is out injured for 4-6 months - shoulder surgery.

15 Jayden Hayward

14 Simone Ragusi

13 Andrea Pratichetti

12 Sam Christie

11 Ludovico Nitoglia

10 James Ambrosini

9 Alberto Lucchese

8 Mat Luamanu

7 Dean Budd

6 Marco Barbini

5 Marco Fuser

4 Antonio Pavanello (capitano)

3 Salesi Manu

2 Davide Giazzon

1 Matteo Zanusso





16 Albert Anae

17 Romulo Acosta

18 Rupert Harden

19 Meyer Swanepoel

20 Nicola Cattina

21 Paul Derbyshire

22 Joe Carlisle

23 Henry Seniloli

I can understand Strauss in all honesty.

1) This is a must-win game. Strauss might not be flash, but his defensive work is generally good (which we need from past two games).

2) If someone gets injured and he's needed, well, he needs game time. Why not play him now with a solid team around him?

Not too sure about what to think re Cuthbert. He's not really been that noticeable at all recently.

Nematode wrote:I can understand Strauss in all honesty.

That's it - banned!

To counter your arguments:

If it is a must-win game, why play a below average 12 and move an international class 12 out of position, instead of playing an international class 12 with a good Pro 12 standard 13 outside him?

Nematode wrote:I can understand Strauss in all honesty.

1) This is a must-win game. Strauss might not be flash, but his defensive work is generally good (which we need from past two games).

2) If someone gets injured and he's needed, well, he needs game time. Why not play him now with a solid team around him?

Not too sure about what to think re Cuthbert. He's not really been that noticeable at all recently.

Cuthbert has been poor recently and looks short on confidence, but with the need to play Tonks at 10, he probably remains the best option for the 15 jersey ahead of McLennan and Tom Brown.

At the moment Scott is not an international class centre

Nematode wrote:At the moment Scott is not an international class centre

On current form no, but he's still streets ahead of Strauss.

AS obviously thinks Scott is equally good at either 12 or 13 which I don't really have a big problem with although I would prefer him at 12.

What I can't understand is why he thinks Strauss is a better option than Sam Beard. You mention his defence but Beard's defence has been quite impressive from what I have seen over the last month or two.

Edinburgh look from the outside to be very close to challenging Scarlets etc for top 6 but decisions like this really don't help. One thing is to remember what you were all saying about Coman last season and he has made strides - maybe Strauss will eventually do the same.

Nematode wrote:At the moment Scott is not an international class centre

Unfortunately that is correct. He has got to find form soon otherwise he will be lucky to get in at 13, never mind 12!  
I agree that The Panto Villain at 12 makes sense here.  We have 3 options for the 2 center positions this weekend - none of them are in form.  Beard played well early season but has been fairly invisible recently so not much to choose between him and Strauss.  Solly probably thinks that sticking with having the defensively solid/makes a few yards option is safer to start, Beard a bit better as an impact sub if need be.


No real complaints for me with the team.  McInally earned his start after last week.  Nathan Fowles looked handy (can deliver quick ball!!)  and deserves another run out.  SHC, Hart and Fowles would be good for next season if we do decide to tie him down.  Shame about Kennedy's injury problems.

I echo the comments that it's good to see McInally starting but i would have liked it wasn't at the expense of Cochrane who has been nothing short of outstanding so far. No comment for Burleigh getting dropped for Strauss

I expect a scrappy affair, Treviso are probably hurting after the 1st leg and last weeks game and this time around they have their tightheads available as well as kung fu man Acosta on the bench, beware.

VinceWLB wrote:I echo the comments that it's good to see McInally starting but i would have liked it wasn't at the expense of Cochrane who has been nothing short of outstanding so far. No comment for Burleigh getting dropped for Strauss  

I expect a scrappy affair, Treviso are probably hurting after the 1st leg and last weeks game and this time around they have their tightheads available as well as kung fu man Acosta on the bench, beware.

Burleigh is out injured so he wasn't an option unfortunately otherwise we would have seen Burleigh/Scott I imagine.

Scottish White Line Fever wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:I echo the comments that it's good to see McInally starting but i would have liked it wasn't at the expense of Cochrane who has been nothing short of outstanding so far. No comment for Burleigh getting dropped for Strauss  

I expect a scrappy affair, Treviso are probably hurting after the 1st leg and last weeks game and this time around they have their tightheads available as well as kung fu man Acosta on the bench, beware.

Burleigh is out injured so he wasn't an option unfortunately otherwise we would have seen Burleigh/Scott I imagine.

Didn't know that! wish Edinburgh listed their unavailable players in the team announcement, like the soap dodgers.

Still, Scott at 12 and Beard at 13 then.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Visser to score a brace on sat!

Just saying!

Won't matter. It seems that tries/points are secondary to making tackles and completing 80 minutes with a low error count.

No - it seems trying, not being lazy and looking like he wants to be there are important

I hope he does score - gets some swagger and gets his confidence back - as THAT Visser would be a real benefit to Scotland

Cardiff have just scored a converted try in the 87th minute to win 18-17 to Connacht, so our slim top 6 hopes look a little better, but we have to win tomorrow now.

Scottish White Line Fever wrote:Cardiff have just scored a converted try in the 87th minute to win 18-17 to Connacht, so our slim top 6 hopes look a little better, but we have to win tomorrow now.

I think we actually need a BP win tomorrow to have any chanct. The last 2 games have killed us.

It also means the blues are now hot on our heals!

Cardiff have a pretty tough run-in - Ulster (a), Glasgow (a), Ospreys (h), Scarlets (a), Zebre (h) so although they could still easily finish above us, they're probably too far behind Connacht to finish in the top 6 as they're still 13 points behind.

I think the first thing is to secure the win tonight and hopefully we can push on for the bonus point later on, but we have to win today. Hopefully Visser and Fife perform well today, as with Lamont's injury looking serious they are likely to be in a shoot-out with one another for that wing spot.

Tbh, would it really be good for Edinburgh to be in the top 6?

I mean, they could face a pool of Saracens, Leinster and Toulouse for instance. What will Edinburgh get from that? Experience of losing heavily - they don't need the Heineken (whatever it's called) cup for that... I'd rather go to Murrayfield to see Edinburgh strongly contest against Gloucester than them getting thumped by Saracens.

I reckon they are better, for now, aiming for silverware in games where they actually have a chance.

It's all about recruitment - we'll be a lot more appealing if we're in the top comp.

Money too!

This match is not going to be a cake walk for Edinburgh

Good try Edinburgh, despite many Italians being off side!

And another, Matt Scott has definitely looked a bit sharper today.

SHC, Toolis and Matt Scott all making their cases!

BigGee wrote:And another, Matt Scott has definitely looked a bit sharper today.

SHC, Toolis and Matt Scott all making their cases!

+1 Sutherland has also started well in the scrum. Fife and Visser combined well in the lead up to the line out for the first try.

Tonks has missed a few tackles - his defence is usually excellent

When Denton plays forward in the defensive line like tonight rather than dropping back as hes became known for, hes a bloody good defensive player. Hes got a great work rate at the breakdown, and that turnover he won earlier on was just one of many hes been winning this season. I still think hes a 6 with 8 on his back, hes certainly playing like one tonight.

Sammys kicking is outstanding