Wales V Ireland (the final showdown) - until the next one

First topic message reminder :

I'm saying nothing. But absolutely no mention of refs before, during or after the game!

Nachos Jones wrote:Name me a ref that has not made high profile slip ups during matches.

Barnes is not my favourite ref at all but I don't think he shows any bias against Ireland.

As I have said many many times, part of a games preparation is knowing the ref and playing him accordingly. Under Schmidt, I see a much smarter way of playing the ref than in years gone by. I am not so concerned myself.

As for Heaslip, the aftermath of that hit from Pape was very bad for him. You could see at the time that it really hurt bt I will also put my hands up and say that when I saw it, I was not too sure there was much in it and said that the game should have just been restarted. Afterwards, I was very wrong but that's the way it goes. At the time, I understood Barnes' ruling.

Did you understand Barnes' ruling when Bradley Davies dumped Donnacha Ryan on his head off the ball?

Its all very well being nicey nicey pc diplomat all the time but if you are getting a raw deal then its ok to speak up about it.

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:I know that stats show that Ireland games with Barnes as ref has Ireland loosing a lot more but other than that late penalty against Wales, he really has not been too harsh on Ireland. The other matches have just seen Ireland beaten.

I am not personally concerned as to who is ref myself.

There is more than just that. He refused to send Bradley Bavies off for a very dangerous tackle on Donnacha Ryan in the same game. He refused to dismiss Pascal Pape for fracturing Heaslips vertebrae. He was very quick to send Heaslip off in a game v NZ a few years back.

There have also been a number of high profile slip ups v Ireland.

Not only is our loss rate with him as ref unusually high we also have above our average penalty count.

I also think it is a bit dodgy that although he is English he did go to school in Wales.

I'm with you and Stevie guns. I wasn't happy with the performance against France either... did everything to avoid sending any French players to the Bin, including Pape, but shot the card out of the pocket at the first opportunity to us.... total double standards at the breadown too.

Wouldn't be surprised if Paddy Power stop taking bets on England winning the title. This is a seriously dodgy appointment considering the way the table looks.

How can Walsh drop out because of business commitments? Refereeing is his job FFS. Well one of his jobs. Very unprofessional.

If Wales beat Ireland does that mean they overtake Australia in the world rankings? Should Wales be ranked ahead of Australia if they have lost 10 on the bounce to them?

GunsGerms wrote:If Wales beat Ireland does that mean they overtake Australia in the world rankings? Should Wales be ranked ahead of Australia if they have lost 10 on the bounce to them?

Thats not how the rankings work and you know it!

Griff wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:If Wales beat Ireland does that mean they overtake Australia in the world rankings? Should Wales be ranked ahead of Australia if they have lost 10 on the bounce to them?

Thats not how the rankings work and you know it!

Not sure what you mean? I know it isn't relevant to the rankings that Australia have defeated Wales 10 games in a row but my question is does it not look ridiculous therefore to have Wales ranked ahead of Australia?

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Name me a ref that has not made high profile slip ups during matches.

Barnes is not my favourite ref at all but I don't think he shows any bias against Ireland.

As I have said many many times, part of a games preparation is knowing the ref and playing him accordingly. Under Schmidt, I see a much smarter way of playing the ref than in years gone by. I am not so concerned myself.

As for Heaslip, the aftermath of that hit from Pape was very bad for him. You could see at the time that it really hurt bt I will also put my hands up and say that when I saw it, I was not too sure there was much in it and said that the game should have just been restarted. Afterwards, I was very wrong but that's the way it goes. At the time, I understood Barnes' ruling.

Did you understand Barnes' ruling when Bradley Davies dumped Donnacha Ryan on his head off the ball?

Its all very well being nicey nicey pc diplomat all the time but if you are getting a raw deal then its ok to speak up about it.

Of course I didn't but that's not my point. My point is that all ref's have howlers, Barnes is not alone in that. I am simply yet to see any evidence of your claim that he is biased against Ireland, that's all.

GunsGerms wrote:

Griff wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:If Wales beat Ireland does that mean they overtake Australia in the world rankings? Should Wales be ranked ahead of Australia if they have lost 10 on the bounce to them?

Thats not how the rankings work and you know it!

Not sure what you mean? I know it isn't relevant to the rankings that Australia have defeated Wales 10 games in a row but my question is does it not look ridiculous therefore to have Wales ranked ahead of Australia?

No, it doesn't.

Just as Australia itself, or South Africa can and have been shored up because of the very fact that they play NZ more than the NH sides do - sucking points off them in a seasonal give/take relationship - so now are European sides benefitting from having 3rd and 4th placed sides in their Competition.

I think that if we cannot win despite Barnes being ref, then we do not deserve to win. We are going in eyes open, we have smart players, a smart coach, and I know they will not be panicked. I also want to state, that after watching some England fans go on about the ref after our match (or the 50,000 refs we supposedly had...) and to reassure our Welsh brethren, some of which, the poor lambs, feel they are unfairly maligned for going on about ref decisions, that all fans do it. But seems us Irish, never content to do it the proper way, are winge-ing about refs before the match.

That roof though...

So you think nothing of the fact that we have by far the worst win loss ratio and highest penalty count when he refs?

It doesnt bother you that in the past he was very quick to card Ferris, Heaslip and Best. He didnt flinch yet when it came to the decisions however, re Pape and Davies he completely bottled it and the citing commission on both occasions confirmed as much?

Have the IRFU approached the ref selectors and officially complained about Barnes that you know of, Guns?

Surely, if there are men with brains in that outfit who have felt particularly hard done by on his decision making in the past, surely they'd have set in motion official complaints and stipulations that they would not allow themselves to be reffed by him?

People complain here all the time about the niggles in the game. Over in the Pro12 threads we have people constantly complain about the 'unfairness' of it all. And I always ask them, have their own teams officially complained about all the unfairness.

Surely our guys would have if they believed Barnes was as biased as you claim.

Well, we can simply agree to disagree here guns. I don't see that he has a bias against Ireland and you do. I don't like him as a ref, said that, and believe that he makes howlers but for all teams he referee's not just Ireland.

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:I know that stats show that Ireland games with Barnes as ref has Ireland loosing a lot more but other than that late penalty against Wales, he really has not been too harsh on Ireland. The other matches have just seen Ireland beaten.

I am not personally concerned as to who is ref myself.

There is more than just that. He refused to send Bradley Bavies off for a very dangerous tackle on Donnacha Ryan in the same game. He refused to dismiss Pascal Pape for fracturing Heaslips vertebrae. He was very quick to send Heaslip off in a game v NZ a few years back.

There have also been a number of high profile slip ups v Ireland.

Not only is our loss rate with him as ref unusually high we also have above our average penalty count.

I also think it is a bit dodgy that although he is English he did go to school in Wales.

Stop rewriting history. Wayne Barnes didn't see the tip-tackle on Donnacha Ryan, so he consulted Dave Pearson, who did see it. Pearson's recommendation? A yellow card, which Barnes duly produced.

I know, he never see it when it happens to Ireland. That's a big part of the problem.

I was at the game. They replayed it on the big screen, everyone in the stadium saw it except Barnes.

wolfball wrote:I think that if we cannot win despite Barnes being ref, then we do not deserve to win.

Bingo.

It seems to me you should be angry with Pearson, not Barnes.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

wolfball wrote:I think that if we cannot win despite Barnes being ref, then we do not deserve to win.

Bingo.

Not now Rory.  We haven't had our caring home lunch yet.  First the apple and rice dessert (with the thick cold skin on it).......... Then! - the bingo.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It seems to me you should be angry with Pearson, not Barnes.

Disagree.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

wolfball wrote:I think that if we cannot win despite Barnes being ref, then we do not deserve to win.

Bingo.

Well we will need to aim for a 14 point buffer IMO which is a lot to ask in Cardiff.

I was hoping this thread would stay positive, but I've witnessed something rather novel - a level of ref whingeing before the event that I haven't see before! Yikes! Imagine what it will be like during the game... I think I'll hide the ipad that weekend!

Griff wrote:I was hoping this thread would stay positive, but I've witnessed something rather novel - a level of ref whingeing before the event that I haven't see before!  Yikes!  Imagine what it will be like during the game...  I think I'll hide the ipad that weekend!

I hope you see more than that Griff, or you'll need the old specsavers slogan thrown at you.

I see a bunch of Irish guys suggest to another Irish guy that's stepping too heavily on his point.

Now how many Welsh lads do I see suggesting to Chunky that he's a xenophobic fantasiser???

Whats at stake:

Raeburn Shield: Ireland have been holders for four matches now.
Rankings: Ireland can consolidate 3rd place while Wales could overtake Australia.
Trophy: Unlike fixtures v Scotland, England and Argentina there is never a trophy at stake for Ireland v Wales games.
Triple Crown. 1 down 2 to go.
Grand slam: Only Ireland can win.
Championship: Only Wales, Ireland and England can win.
Winning streak: Ireland can break their all time winning streak of 10 games in a row.
RWC: Potential semi final pairing if both teams win their group and their quarter.

Anything else?

Its a massive match for both teams. An Ireland defeat and it bursts the feelgood bubble. A Wales defeat will confirm that Ireland have moved up a level from them and heap undeserved pressure on Gatland.

whocares wrote:

Cyril wrote:It would be funny if Ireland beat Wales and then lost to Scotland after all this grumbling ... just for England to lose against France 1h30 later

fixed

Thats is a scenario I can see happening - a gut feeling not based on logic, form or quality

I can see it happening too.

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote:I was hoping this thread would stay positive, but I've witnessed something rather novel - a level of ref whingeing before the event that I haven't see before!  Yikes!  Imagine what it will be like during the game...  I think I'll hide the ipad that weekend!

I hope you see more than that Griff, or you'll need the old specsavers slogan thrown at you.

I see a bunch of Irish guys suggest to another Irish guy that's stepping too heavily on his point.

Now how many Welsh lads do I see suggesting to Chunky that he's a xenophobic fantasiser???

I was trying to remain light hearted on the subject! I think the amount of flak Barnes is getting before the game is a little harsh (only from one poster though), and yes some Irish custodians of balance have been playing down any Barnes issues, so credit due there. All refs I think have a chequered history (apart from the God of refs, big Nige ) Some fans think certain ones are more against them but in reality they've all had howlers. Not sure we can predict who will have a good game, or indeed pick that ref even if we could. We have to leave it up to the gods. One way to look at it though - and maybe this is the intention of the pre-game Barnes flak if Barnes was to read these boards - is that Barnes may feel the need to make up for past misdemeanours. That could work in Irelands favour

Forget the ref.


He'll play his own game. He has his deck of Yellow and Red cards a shuffling in his poker player hands as we speak

What's Gat's tactics Griff? Be as detailed as possible because they'll be passed on to Schmidt.

The 2012 Bradley Davies and Ferris incidents.

https://youtu.be/VZKtrdD69go?t=4m42s
https://youtu.be/VZKtrdD69go?t=10m44s
(some pack of loons in the comments section   )

For feck sake can we not leave 2012 in 2012 already? This is all a bit over-dramatic!

The Ferris card is probably the most ridiculous yellow I have ever seen.

He happens to be the ref we have most difficulty with. But we used to have huge difficulties with Poite and that's been turned around.

I don't like accusations of bias. He's mistake prone but that's really slanderous questioning his integrity like that.

On the bright side, his happiness to blow the whistle could stop any momentum the Welsh get too.

GunsGerms wrote:The Ferris card is probably the most ridiculous yellow I have ever seen.

Guns I agree it should never have been a penalty let alone a card. But it was given at a time and in a climate where cards were flying around left, right and centre for supposed "dangerous tackles".

SecretFly wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

wolfball wrote:I think that if we cannot win despite Barnes being ref, then we do not deserve to win.

Bingo.

Not now Rory.  We haven't had our caring home lunch yet.  First the apple and rice dessert (with the thick cold skin on it).......... Then! - the bingo.

GunsGerms wrote:The Ferris card is probably the most ridiculous yellow I have ever seen.

Bought by Bradley Davies I think

FecklessRogue wrote:He happens to be the ref we have most difficulty with. But we used to have huge difficulties with Poite and that's been turned around.

I don't like accusations of bias. He's mistake prone but that's really slanderous questioning his integrity like that.

On the bright side, his happiness to blow the whistle could stop any momentum the Welsh get too.

You mean libellous.

I don't rate Barnes as a top quality referee, he is awkward and makes to many crucial errors.

We lost to Australia in 2013 because he allowed a forward pass, same as the one Jack Nowell had dissmissed at the end of last weekends match.

maestegmafia wrote:I don't rate Barnes as a top quality referee, he is awkward and makes to many crucial errors.

We lost to Australia in 2013 because he allowed a forward pass, same as the one Jack Nowell had dissmissed at the end of last weekends match.

He missed one against Aus in the RWC third place play-off too. Not that it affected the outcome. It's just the forward pass was an absolute howler from Hook, he was stood right there and ignored it.