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6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash

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Post by GLove39 Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:19 pm

First topic message reminder :

6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash - Page 6 Englan14    6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash - Page 6 Scotla13
ENGLAND v SCOTLAND  
Saturday 14 February 2015
KO 17:00 (GMT)
Twickers

Live on BBC1

Referee: Romain Poitey (FFR)
AR1: George Clancy (IRFU)   vomit
AR2: Marius Mitrea (FIR)
TMO: Ben Skeen (NZR)

Teams:

ENGLAND
6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash - Page 6 Alasta10
M Brown (Harlequins); A Watson (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), L Burrell (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter); G Ford (Bath), B Youngs (Leicester); J Marler (Harlequins), D Hartley (Northampton), D Cole (Leicester), D Attwood (Bath), C Lawes (Northampton), J Haskell (Wasps), C Robshaw (Harlequins, capt), B Vunipola (Saracens).

Replacements: T Youngs (Leicester), M Vunipola (Saracens), K Brookes (Newcastle), G Parling (Leicester), T Wood (Northampton), R Wigglesworth (Saracens), D Cipriani (Sale), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester).

SCOTLAND
6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash - Page 6 Tucker12
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); Dougie Fife (Edinburgh), Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh), Tommy Seymour, Finn Russell (both Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (captn) (Gloucester); Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh), Ross Ford (Edinburgh), Euan Murray (Glasgow Warriors), Jim Hamilton (Saracens), Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors), Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors), Blair Cowan (London Irish) David Denton (Edinburgh).

Replacements: Fraser Brown, Ryan Grant (both Glasgow Warriors), Geoff Cross (London Irish), Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors), Sam Hidalgo-Clyne and Greig Tonks (both Edinburgh)


The result of the Ireland game beforehand could make things very interesting from an English perspective. Tournament could be blown wide open, & see England looking for a big score with an eye to next weekend & things coming down to points difference.

For us, there's nothing at stake bar pride & some melted Indian Rupees.

Twickenham was always going to be tough, but given how things have gone this tournament I'm absolutely dreading this match.
Our record down South is more embarrassing than Natalie Bennett on LBC! 32 long years since we last won at Twickenham and in the last half century we've managed just one other win in 1971. Stretch things back to the whole century and we can double our total with wins in 1926 & 1938!

Fear we'll see a similar game to England - Italy, valiant start by us & some swashbuckling stuff before ultimately being crushed in the final quarter. Although if we 'defend' the maul like we did against Italy the score will be worse.

On the bright side though, scoring any points would be an improvement on last years Calcutta Cup match... Braveheart

Preconditions people? Am I being too gloomy?

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Post by RDW Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:19 pm

This now means Horne is likely to be our 2nd choice 12 now, which is depressing.

After that there is Duncan Taylor, who is fairly solid at least.

Problem is - who do we have after that? Fraser Lyle??

We may see Weir/Tonks/Jackson at 10 with Russell at 12, but that is pretty lightweight.

Or Lamont... Shocked


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Post by Scottish White Line Fever Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:25 pm

Alex Grove? Albeit, he's at Worcester and hasn't been in the frame for Scotland for a few years now. I wouldn't be keen to move Russell from 10 unless there was no other option. Scott's form and fitness is now imperative - we'll need to wrap him in cotton wool for the next 6 months!

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Post by Scottish White Line Fever Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:26 pm

Also it's slightly worrying that Scott doesn't have a particularly great injury record, so we could feasibly go into the WC with a Horne/Bennett combination.

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Post by BamBam Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:28 pm

Ouch, that's a bad one, hope he makes a full recovery

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:28 pm

Captain_Sensible wrote:Glasgow just announced on their Twitter feed that Dunbar will be out for 6-9 months with an ACL rupture.

Disaster.

Oh dear Lord. I've only just heard this news. Horrible news for Dunbar himself (first and foremost), but also for Glasgow and Scotland. He was a shoe-in for the World Cup and had been having a great season.

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Post by Chjw131 Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:32 pm

Heuer27 wrote:" A 6/2 split on the bench and the likes of Hamilton back in mean only one thing. "

Correct. We are going to try and take England on up front playing right into their hands. Double, triple, face palm.

It's sad because I thought you guys deserved the win against France and played some really nice stuff with Russell there. I know Dunbar was a help but the whole set-up seemed to have moved on. This seems more like regression and to grind a win out at all costs. This Scots team may just do that but it will be a close and boring slug-fest if that's to be the case and it'll do neither England nor Scotland any good in the long run.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:33 pm

Scottish White Line Fever wrote:Also it's slightly worrying that Scott doesn't have a particularly great injury record, so we could feasibly go into the WC with a Horne/Bennett combination.

This is my concern. Scott is a very good centre, but has a really bad record with injuries. Horne would rightly be the next option, followed by Taylor, but we're now talking about a big step down from Dunbar and Scott.

I suppose in 2.5 years there will be Phil Burleigh to possibly consider.

I'm sure we'll end up doing something really daft like using Hogg in the centres, or moving Meatball to 12.

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Post by tigertattie Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:34 pm

first point!

Get well soon Dunbar!

second poin!

WTF is cotter doing with that bench?

I long suspected that SJ was still pulling the strings and this odd bench with a love of number 8s just adds credence to my theory!

If SJ really is pulling the strings then Cotter really is just a patsy which would lower my respect for the man!
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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:35 pm

On the squad for England, slightly surprised by the bench split, but the XV is as I expected with the exception of Visser missing out for Fife (but based on the Treviso game it is entirely justified for Fife to start), and subject to the Dunbar injury.

I expected Beattie to be dropped altogether. He's lucky to be retained, and I'd far rather see Hamish Watson off the bench than him.

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Post by Gooseberry Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:38 pm

Im not amazed by it. They expect the forwards to be doing the bulk of the work on the day and their only chance of comepting with england is to dominate poessesion and go hard at them in the ruck as Ireland did. As the game progresses the forwards will be gassing, the fresh legs are more likley to be needed there. Backs should only NEED replacing where theres injuries, it does leave them short on tactical change options but I think its a bench based on pragmatism. When you also consider how many potential " game changing " backs Scotland have available and add in injuries its even less surprising they havent got many exactly demanding inclusion on the bench.

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Post by cp10 Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:44 pm

tigertattie wrote:

If SJ really is pulling the strings then Cotter really is just a patsy which would lower my respect for the man!

Don't talk rubbish. You speak to people that has met Cotter they'll tell you he won't take any sh!t from anyone. You don't pay someone the big $$$ and then over rule him. He'd be straight out the door.

I would have thought the 6/2 split was probably the forced change due to Dunbar pulling out. Scott was probably marked for the 23rd man but they decided to go with the extra forward


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Post by RDW Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:47 pm

Given how underpowered our pack was against Italy, a 6/2 split makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is having both Ashe and Beattie on the bench, other than their extra bulk over the likes of Watson.

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Post by Scottish White Line Fever Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:53 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Given how underpowered our pack was against Italy, a 6/2 split makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is having both Ashe and Beattie on the bench, other than their extra bulk over the likes of Watson.


If say Cowan goes down injured after half time, I will be intrigued to see how we reshuffle the back row. It would maybe be tempting to bring Fraser Brown off the bench and stick him at 7 and hope Ford gets through the 80 or if he tires, stick Brown at hooker and Harley at 7. I appreciate this may be slightly controversial (and I would rather have Brown or Barclay available or Watson selected, but this is the situation we're in), but sticking Brown at 7 would be a better option for me than having Ashe/Denton/Harley there.

In saying that, I expect VC would bring Beattie on at 8, Harley to 7, Denton to 6.

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Post by RDW Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:55 pm

It's certainly far from ideal but Harley has at least played 7 for Glasgow.

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Post by Chjw131 Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:01 pm

From an English perspective I still think SL has some way to go to forming a coherent bench strategy. At the moment it's still a bit of a hotchpotch.

If you're going to have Wigglesworth in a match day squad he's far better used from the beginning with his tactical kicking game to gain territory and build pressure. Not that Ben Youngs is a bad kicker these days but I don't see the merit in having Wiggs on the bench. Particularly when his half back partner is the diametric opposite in Cipriani.

A pairing of Wiggs/Myler I could understand to close a game out. A pairing of Simpson/Cipriani I could see logic to, but not a mixture of the two.

The forwards are another thing. Parling and Wood add huge work-rate but that's better employed from the start, these guys aren't going to come on and have impact in the same way an Attwood/Morgan pairing has had. There just doesn't appear to be a clear strategy for the whole bench.

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Post by BigGee Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:31 pm

A slightly odd selection, but hopefully there is some master plan there that I am missing. I am going to be there, so I really do hope so!

Maitland must not be fit yet, which I suppose is no great surprise. Fife was the better player last week, so justifiably gets the nod.

There is almost nothing you can say about losing Dunbar, it is beyond a blow, he has been our best player so far. Scott is a very good replacement but we now have no depth.

Hamilton playing makes some sort of sense given the way we capitulated up front last week. Swinson stays on the bench as he was one of the few forwards to turn up last week. Toolis turn will come, this match may have just been a little early for him. The back row is the best one we have currently, KB is not even fit at the moment!

The bench is where it gets perplexing. Beattie should not be there, he is very lucky. The only thing that you an think of is that Ashe is still not really match fit. Either way it seems he plans to change the back row in the second half and is obviously expecting a long and atrocious shift from them.

We looked dangerously light and vulnerable to injury in the backs though and it means that SHC is going to be held back well into the second half. I imagine he will be covering the wing as well as SH. Tonks I would imagine can cover the centre, especially 12 as well and Hoggy could move out to 13 as well.

No great impact from the backs subs though, especially as SHC is likely to be held back until well into the second half.

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Post by BigGee Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:40 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:On the squad for England, slightly surprised by the bench split, but the XV is as I expected with the exception of Visser missing out for Fife (but based on the Treviso game it is entirely justified for Fife to start), and subject to the Dunbar injury.

I expected Beattie to be dropped altogether. He's lucky to be retained, and I'd far rather see Hamish Watson off the bench than him.

As someone else said, this may have been driven by the very late injury to Dunbar. With the other injuries and the concussion to Horne, there may not have been an obvious and available replacement. Beattie maybe was lining up to be the spare travelling sub. This decision may well have been made on the way to the airport!

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Post by CraigS1874 Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:19 pm

Not posted in ages but I thought Dunbars injury news was too big to miss out on!

It really damages Glasgow's chances of the pro 12 as he is threat in attack and vital in defence however Matt Scott on his day is just as good. I was speaking to Matt the other week and he is getting very frustrated with his injuries and It will have a big impact on the way his career pans out which is even more frustrating as an Edinburgh and Scotland fan.


Adam Ashe has played bits at 7 before so I wouldn't be surprised to see him come on for Cowan but what is going to happen if either centre goes off on Saturday ? Although I prefer tonks as a player to horne, horne would of been my choice on the bench for the English.

England -16 at 10/11 seems like free money to any other gamblers out there.

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Post by Heuer27 Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:32 pm

We are two injuries away from a SJ team.  How on earth did Cotter manage to arrive there. Yes there is little depth to the playing pool but as we are well aware there are guys sitting at home who are more than capable of stepping up.
I fear for this team on Saturday. It's is not going to be pretty and I can envisage a few more injuries due to the way we are set out to play.
Hope I am wrong though.


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Post by Nematode Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:39 pm

Anyone else [Scottish] not really feeling 'up' for this game? It's the first time in years that I've just not felt optimistic or really all that interested in the match.

It's probably down to the Italy loss and the lack of strength and depth on the bench, but I just see no way that Scotland can win. Our pack seems under-strength - we are getting bullied by oppositions, pinning us back in our own half - and our backs just aren't living up to their expectations - Fife scored the only real back-move try.



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Post by cakeordeath Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:03 pm

Just now it is 50/50 that I will watch it. Might just go shopping instead

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Post by LondonTiger Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:17 pm

England to come out cold again and be 15 points down inside 10 minutes. Next 60 minutes to be all England with Scotland living off scraps. England finally take the lead with 10 minutes to go. Lead extended to 6 points with 5 minutes to go. As time is up, Hogg intercepts a dreadful pass from cipriani, running the ball to the half way line he feeds SHC in support who scoots over. Russell has the conversion to win the game.

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Post by Chjw131 Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:48 pm

LondonTiger wrote:England to come out cold again and be 15 points down inside 10 minutes. Next 60 minutes to be all England with Scotland living off scraps. England finally take the lead with 10 minutes to go. Lead extended to 6 points with 5 minutes to go. As time is up, Hogg intercepts a dreadful pass from cipriani, running the ball to the half way line he feeds SHC in support who scoots over. Russell has the conversion to win the game.

You heard it here first people.

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Post by Gooseberry Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:10 pm

LondonTiger wrote:England to come out cold again and be 15 points down inside 10 minutes. Next 60 minutes to be all England with Scotland living off scraps. England finally take the lead with 10 minutes to go. Lead extended to 6 points with 5 minutes to go. As time is up, Hogg intercepts a dreadful pass from cipriani, running the ball to the half way line he feeds SHC in support who scoots over. Russell has the conversion to win the game.

Plausible up untill the bit where Cipriani is allowed on the pitch

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Post by Nematode Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:25 pm

Quite a fun watch:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31852693


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Post by GLove39 Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:35 pm

Nematode wrote:Quite a fun watch:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31852693


Yep, Chris Paterson did a fun video walk through off Murrayfield last year and explained the pillar is there purely for that reason, ironically thought that's also the changing room edinburgh use!

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Post by RDW Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:41 pm

Rumour has it that the pillar doesn't actually do anything - Jim Telfer decided to put it in to mess up the opposition!

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Post by englandglory4ever Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:29 pm

After last year when the Scots tried to slow the game down by watering the pitch continually and then allowing the Black Watch to trample all over it for 30 minutes and turn it in to a quagmire I hope we see England cut loose and shred 'em. C'mon Engerlaaaand.

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Post by yappysnap Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:08 pm

Frak me you Scots fans are on a downer today!

Remember this is sport guys, Upsets happen, and they happen when they're least expected! That's why we love to watch it.

Remember Connacht beating Quins after that team had just won away at Toulouse, remember Italy twice now beating France, just this year the Rebels one of the most disorganised sides in rugby went away to the Crusaders the most successful team in all SuperRugby and wupped them.

Upsets happen!

To quote and paraphrase a great poster on here, BELIEVE!

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Post by Heuer27 Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:26 pm

Unfortunately we are neither one thing nor the other with this team. If we want to play ten man rugby then you don't pick Russell , Scott and Bennett. If you want to play a fast running game you don't play Hamilton , Laidlaw and Denton. Betwixt and between, its all a bit frustrating really.

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Post by Majestic83 Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:02 pm

Just home from work and seen the extent of the injury to alex Dunbar. Terrible news for glasgow and scotland. 6-9 months estimated but think it will be nearer the 9 months if not longer to seem him fully back playing. Can't see him making the World Cup squad.
If I were the sru I'd be flying him out to Colorado asap to see the knee specialist who's name I can't remember. Regarded as the best sports knee doctir he has brilliant success at getting players back quickly from bad knee injuries. A big big loss as he is one of the best centres in Europe at the moment.
Scott and Bennett is still a very good combo but the depth after that is a little thin.
For me Duncan Taylor is the most similar player to Dunbar but needs more game time to really make his mark.


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Post by Majestic83 Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:09 pm

A few surprises for me for the team for Saturday. StArting line up is what I expected. It's the bench that does surprise me a little. Mostly johnnie Beattie still being in the squad as he has been v poor. Him and Adam Ashe are fairly similar so thought an out and out openside on the bench would have been a better idea. Could have been an ideal opportunity to see Hugh Blake in action!
Think greg Tonks will cover 10,12,13 and 15. Hasn't played centre for edinburgh but did for the saints. Actually think he would be a very good number 12.
Could also see johnnie Beattie playing in the backs if there are injuries as know he has played centre in his younger days and also played there during a couple games for montpellier a couple seasons back when they had sin binnings and injuries.

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Post by alive555 Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:49 am

Alex Dunbar - without doubt scotland best player out of wc

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/31857489

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Post by TJ Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:42 am

Nematode wrote:Anyone else [Scottish] not really feeling 'up' for this game? It's the first time in years that I've just not felt optimistic or really all that interested in the match.




Me. I am so disappointed in this 6N. In previous years we have done as well as we could with what we had available - this year we have underperformed. Its a wooden spoon for us

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Post by Jimpy Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:18 am

yappysnap wrote:Frak me you Scots fans are on a downer today!

Remember this is sport guys, Upsets happen, and they happen when they're least expected! That's why we love to watch it.

Remember Connacht beating Quins after that team had just won away at Toulouse, remember Italy twice now beating France, just this year the Rebels one of the most disorganised sides in rugby went away to the Crusaders the most successful team in all SuperRugby and wupped them.

Upsets happen!

To quote and paraphrase a great poster on here, BELIEVE!

Yes....well there are three things certain in life - death, taxes and a big England win on Saturday. I've never felt more confident of an England win against Scotland, usually I'm rather nervous about our prospects as Scotland always seem to be able to drag us down to their level (especially on the Somme like Murrayfield pitch) and keep England honest.

Not this time. England are just so up for this and there is real strength and dynamism in that team.

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Post by EWT Spoons Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:57 am

Well i was fairly downbeat yesterday after the no.8 fest and Dunbar's injury. But today is a new day and having thought about it overnight, I'm slightly more optimistic than I was.

Firstly I reckon Ashe is there to cover 6 with Beattie covering 8, does leave us short at 7, but Harley may move over if Cowan is having a mare or is knackered.

We're clearly going to be working the forwards so having a split in their favour makes sense.

Finally, over the years we've picked a fairly standard split of players for the bench, and lets face it for the last 32 of those years, it hasn't worked for us down in Twickenham. I'm really hopeful Cotter is some kind of genius and this is the formula for us to actually get something down there.

With all that said, I still think we'll lose, because it's what we do when we visit twickenham, but at least I hope we are competitive this year and it gives the lads a bit of confidence to go on and win against Ireland....it could happen.

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Post by alive555 Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:10 am

Although compounded by injuries, this team is all about damage limitation. Any injury to backs and the team will completely fall apart, as we will be forced into playing players out of position which as we all know is pure suicide at this level. Remember the team is already going into the game on total downer ! Confidence is totally shot

So we have only 2 backs on bench, a forward earmarked to cover centre  picard

Given our injury issues, and the certainty we will have to use almost the whole bench vs a v strong eng bench, this will almost certainly turn very nasty in the second half. im predicting 2 yellows, possibly 3, and england by 40 plus.

england 48 scotland 6

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Post by beshocked Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:14 am

Jimpy wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Frak me you Scots fans are on a downer today!

Remember this is sport guys, Upsets happen, and they happen when they're least expected! That's why we love to watch it.

Remember Connacht beating Quins after that team had just won away at Toulouse, remember Italy twice now beating France, just this year the Rebels one of the most disorganised sides in rugby went away to the Crusaders the most successful team in all SuperRugby and wupped them.

Upsets happen!

To quote and paraphrase a great poster on here, BELIEVE!

Yes....well there are three things certain in life - death, taxes and a big England win on Saturday. I've never felt more confident of an England win against Scotland, usually I'm rather nervous about our prospects as Scotland always seem to be able to drag us down to their level (especially on the Somme like Murrayfield pitch) and keep England honest.

Not this time. England are just so up for this and there is real strength and dynamism in that team.

Just a shame that England weren't up for it vs Ireland! Didn't have the real strength and dynamism then!

I agree with you that England should win and well but I am not sure what it will prove if anything.

Will a big win against Scotland (if it happens) paper over the cracks that were exposed by Ireland?

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Post by Jimpy Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:23 am

beshocked wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Frak me you Scots fans are on a downer today!

Remember this is sport guys, Upsets happen, and they happen when they're least expected! That's why we love to watch it.

Remember Connacht beating Quins after that team had just won away at Toulouse, remember Italy twice now beating France, just this year the Rebels one of the most disorganised sides in rugby went away to the Crusaders the most successful team in all SuperRugby and wupped them.

Upsets happen!

To quote and paraphrase a great poster on here, BELIEVE!

Yes....well there are three things certain in life - death, taxes and a big England win on Saturday. I've never felt more confident of an England win against Scotland, usually I'm rather nervous about our prospects as Scotland always seem to be able to drag us down to their level (especially on the Somme like Murrayfield pitch) and keep England honest.

Not this time. England are just so up for this and there is real strength and dynamism in that team.

Just a shame that England weren't up for it vs Ireland! Didn't have the real strength and dynamism then!

I agree with you that England should win and well but I am not sure what it will prove if anything.

Will a big win against Scotland (if it happens) paper over the cracks that were exposed by Ireland?

I don't know if papering over the cracks is the right turn of phrase. I would say that despite that loss, England are still moving in the right direction and I would think win both their remaining matches. Ireland just had a very simple game plan that they executed very well. England just played below par on that particular occasion. I don't think its a sign of stagnation or a downward trend by any means (although with a WC just down the road, SL is still not sure of his back line). I fancy Wales to turn Ireland over tomorrow, and I think England's big points difference against Italy, as opposed to Ireland's will see them top the table next week.

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Post by Nachos Jones Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:23 am

Massive loss for Scotland with Dunbar's injury. Really wish him all the best, terrible for him.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:33 am

Heuer27 wrote:Unfortunately we are neither one thing nor the other with this team. If we want to play ten man rugby then you don't pick Russell , Scott and Bennett. If you want to play a fast running game you don't play Hamilton , Laidlaw and Denton. Betwixt and between, its all a bit frustrating really.

Denton is pretty handy when the game opens up, but I agree with you re: Hamilton and Laidlaw, and it's also confusing that we have two number 8s on the bench and no cover at 7 (given we're going with 6 forwards on the bench). Watson's mobility could have made a massive difference in the closing stages, and Beattie is off form and Ashe returning from injury.

There's always something to gripe about in a teamsheet, and by and large I'm pretty comfortable with what Cotter has done here.

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Post by TJ Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:34 am

I think this match will be a turgid affair with England trying to grind out a win and scotland trying to stop them doing so. I don't think england have their backs sorted enough / have a fly half who can break Scotland down - tho they do have a couple of really top class backs. England will play for penalties in Scrums and mauls. Scotland will give them the penalties.

Big Jim will be yellow carded

England will kick a lot and try to play territory, Scotland will try to run everything and get pinned back in their own half.

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Post by yappysnap Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:37 am

I agree it is likely we'll win. I'm not going to predict a wupping quite yet though as we're pretty good at making life hard for ourselves!

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Post by beshocked Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:40 am

Jimpy England were emphatically outplayed by Ireland and only the injury to Sexton prevented the scoreline from being worse.

it was a very simple gameplan which every man and his dog knew what Ireland were going to do. England had no answers - they did not adapt either.

It's just yet another opportunity for a GS that England have not taken.

England are meant to be on par with Ireland but were well off the pace. It wasn't a close loss.

A big win against Scotland won't get rid of the poor display against Ireland.

I believe England has stagnated under Lancaster - I certainly wouldn't say they are improving. A GS has been well overdue and it's yet another year of no GS.

If England want to aspire to more than 2nd place in the 6 nations/4th or 5th in the world then need to be winning GSs.

The only thing a big win over Scotland (if it happens) will tell us is what we already know - England are better than Scotland at rugby currently.

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Post by TJ Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:49 am

A year ago I had England as favourites for the WC and believed Lancaster was well on track. However no progress seems to have been made in this year. I am not sure why really.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:55 am

Going to say injuries obviously played a big part in it TJ.

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Post by Jimpy Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:02 am

beshocked wrote:Jimpy England were emphatically outplayed by Ireland and only the injury to Sexton prevented the scoreline from being worse.

it was a very simple gameplan which every man and his dog knew what Ireland were going to do. England had no answers - they did not adapt either.

It's just yet another opportunity for a GS that England have not taken.

England are meant to be on par with Ireland but were well off the pace. It wasn't a close loss.

A big win against Scotland won't get rid of the poor display against Ireland.

I believe England has stagnated under Lancaster - I certainly wouldn't say they are improving. A GS has been well overdue and it's yet another year of no GS.

If England want to aspire to more than 2nd place in the 6 nations/4th or 5th in the world then need to be winning GSs.

The only thing a big win over Scotland (if it happens) will tell us is what we already know - England are better than Scotland at rugby currently.

Quite simply, nonsense.

Wales, for example, have a hatful of contemporary GS under their belts, yet they are languishing in the bottom half of the top ten world rankings and haven't made it past a semi-final in a WC. Oh, and when they're not winning GS, they're pretty mediocre at 6N time as well..

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Post by TJ Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:05 am

Its not just that tho for in a great squad you should be able to swap players seamlessly. For me the "leinster lesson" is that you do not need just a 15 or a 23 but two full teams where you can swap players in and out and this is the only way to win tournaments. Lancaster seemed to be getting to this point but somewhere along the way stagnated. Englands pack is very good indeed - its behind the pack the issues arrive. None of the centres tried seem to have really grabbed their chances and fly half remains an issue. Its almost as if they have had too much training and reliance on this so no spontaneous play is possible and players are afraid to take risks. I have to say I am a bit disappointed in that I though England might be able to match SA and NZ but this now looks unlikely. Stiull - a bit of time to go yet.

I think Lancaster should play Cipriani to see if he is the man to unlock the potential - and also he needs some creative tactics. Not many games left to try out players and tactics

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Post by Jimpy Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:05 am

TJ wrote:A year ago I had England as favourites for the WC and believed Lancaster was well on track.  However no progress seems to have been made in this year.  I am not sure why really.

In a word. Injuries.

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Post by reallybored Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:10 am

I'm positively buzzing about this match, we're not quite at full wack with Gray, Dunbar and Maitland missing but it's still a bloody good side.

As usual, main concern against the English is getting overpowered up-front but inclusion of Hamilton and Denton gives us more physicality.  Our set-piece has been pretty good so far and Hamilton will improve it, would like to see us compete more on opposition ball because the driving maul has been a real achilles heal for us.

Not overly concerned by the English back line, without Tuilagi it's a very different prospect, haven't seen enough from Ford to get particularly worried about him and confident Bennett will keep tabs of JJ like he did in Europe.  Appears that our back-line's attacking threat has been overlooked in the media.

Sounds like Cotter has been getting stuck into the squad over last couple weeks, which they probably needed.  

Have a feeling we could see something a little special this weekend, this squad really owes the Scottish rugby public a performance.  Not just for the loss last week against Italy but for the shameful capitulation last year against England, they showed no fight that day.

If we play with intensity and our pack can gain parity then I'm confident our back-line can out score them.

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