6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash

First topic message reminder :

    
ENGLAND v SCOTLAND  
Saturday 14 February 2015
KO 17:00 (GMT)
Twickers

Live on BBC1

Referee: Romain Poitey (FFR)
AR1: George Clancy (IRFU)  
AR2: Marius Mitrea (FIR)
TMO: Ben Skeen (NZR)

Teams:

ENGLAND

M Brown (Harlequins); A Watson (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), L Burrell (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter); G Ford (Bath), B Youngs (Leicester); J Marler (Harlequins), D Hartley (Northampton), D Cole (Leicester), D Attwood (Bath), C Lawes (Northampton), J Haskell (Wasps), C Robshaw (Harlequins, capt), B Vunipola (Saracens).

Replacements: T Youngs (Leicester), M Vunipola (Saracens), K Brookes (Newcastle), G Parling (Leicester), T Wood (Northampton), R Wigglesworth (Saracens), D Cipriani (Sale), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester).

SCOTLAND

Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); Dougie Fife (Edinburgh), Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh), Tommy Seymour, Finn Russell (both Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (captn) (Gloucester); Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh), Ross Ford (Edinburgh), Euan Murray (Glasgow Warriors), Jim Hamilton (Saracens), Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors), Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors), Blair Cowan (London Irish) David Denton (Edinburgh).

Replacements: Fraser Brown, Ryan Grant (both Glasgow Warriors), Geoff Cross (London Irish), Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors), Sam Hidalgo-Clyne and Greig Tonks (both Edinburgh)


The result of the Ireland game beforehand could make things very interesting from an English perspective. Tournament could be blown wide open, & see England looking for a big score with an eye to next weekend & things coming down to points difference.

For us, there's nothing at stake bar pride & some melted Indian Rupees.

Twickenham was always going to be tough, but given how things have gone this tournament I'm absolutely dreading this match.
Our record down South is more embarrassing than Natalie Bennett on LBC! 32 long years since we last won at Twickenham and in the last half century we've managed just one other win in 1971. Stretch things back to the whole century and we can double our total with wins in 1926 & 1938!

Fear we'll see a similar game to England - Italy, valiant start by us & some swashbuckling stuff before ultimately being crushed in the final quarter. Although if we 'defend' the maul like we did against Italy the score will be worse.

On the bright side though, scoring any points would be an improvement on last years Calcutta Cup match...

Preconditions people? Am I being too gloomy?

Good try for Ben Robbins. Good play from lots of players in the build up.

TJ wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I never thought we'd be arguing about who has the better backs.

As an England fan the only player that I would take is Hogg. I can't believe I've just read that somebody rates Finn Russell over George Ford and Owen Farrell. They both have their faults but theres no comparison imo, Russell would be 4/5th choice for us.

I agree with you. Russell is just potential at this stage - he's actually had a poor 6 Nations in terms of performance, even before you take into account his card + suspension. Ford is streets ahead.

In the bath / Glasgow games the English papers I saw even had Russell as playing better than Ford.  I agree Russell has not had the best of 6N tho and can be a bit flaky and does make tactical mistake on occasion - and is far from the finished product but Ford also make blunders and offers less running threat

Maybe Russell outplayed Ford but does that automatically make him a better player? Ford was the U20 World player of the year and has proved had some very impressive games for England recently as well as Bath.

FH is more than just having a good running game TJ. Ford is better than Russell in pretty much every aspect of fly half play bar maybe running (debatable). His tactical kicking, passing and game management are street ahead of Russell imo.

It's a shame we had such a bad first half - we're doing well 2nd half

RDW_Scotland wrote:It's a shame we had such a bad first half - we're doing well 2nd half

Agreed. Bradbury has had a good second half, as has Hutchison. Horne looks a good prospect at 9 (apart from his dive) and he looks to have a better boot than his brother!

Bradbury really stepping up and taking the game to the english.

Sums up the game - Scotland have a 5m meter scrum with a man advantage and get driven off it!

I'd like to see Bradbury get a little more game time for Edinburgh in the remainder of the season - particularly if we get to the stage where we can't finish in the top 6 and we're out of the Challenge Cup.

Imperialbigdave wrote:

TJ wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I never thought we'd be arguing about who has the better backs.

As an England fan the only player that I would take is Hogg. I can't believe I've just read that somebody rates Finn Russell over George Ford and Owen Farrell. They both have their faults but theres no comparison imo, Russell would be 4/5th choice for us.

I agree with you. Russell is just potential at this stage - he's actually had a poor 6 Nations in terms of performance, even before you take into account his card + suspension. Ford is streets ahead.

In the bath / Glasgow games the English papers I saw even had Russell as playing better than Ford.  I agree Russell has not had the best of 6N tho and can be a bit flaky and does make tactical mistake on occasion - and is far from the finished product but Ford also make blunders and offers less running threat

Sorry, im a huge Russell fan, but to say this guy doesnt offer as much running threat is mmmm... well I dont agree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvDhJDPmoxs

It's ok, TJ is always man enough to apologise when he's wrong (like he was with Bath in the ECC etc). I'm sure he will again

Ford's running game is excellent. He's a real threat, has pace and great feet/balance.

Huge guts from Scotland in that 2nd half - tremendous effort

RDW_Scotland wrote:Huge guts from Scotland in that 2nd half - tremendous effort

Certainly. Can take positives from that.

Cyril wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:

TJ wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I never thought we'd be arguing about who has the better backs.

As an England fan the only player that I would take is Hogg. I can't believe I've just read that somebody rates Finn Russell over George Ford and Owen Farrell. They both have their faults but theres no comparison imo, Russell would be 4/5th choice for us.

I agree with you. Russell is just potential at this stage - he's actually had a poor 6 Nations in terms of performance, even before you take into account his card + suspension. Ford is streets ahead.

In the bath / Glasgow games the English papers I saw even had Russell as playing better than Ford.  I agree Russell has not had the best of 6N tho and can be a bit flaky and does make tactical mistake on occasion - and is far from the finished product but Ford also make blunders and offers less running threat

Sorry, im a huge Russell fan, but to say this guy doesnt offer as much running threat is mmmm... well I dont agree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvDhJDPmoxs

It's ok, TJ is always man enough to apologise when he's wrong (like he was with Bath in the ECC etc). I'm sure he will again

Ford's running game is excellent. He's a real threat, has pace and great feet/balance.

Aye Ford is a good player no doubt. But better than Russell - I have my doubts. Like most of the backs not a lot to chose between them.

Happy to agree to disagree TJ

Tell you what, there are some decent young players coming through for Scotland. A lot of these have another year in this age group as well.

Magnus Bradbury really looks a prospect and I thought, Howarth the full back and Hutchinson the FH were both very good as well. Probably the most impressive thing is that we look reasonable across the board. Usually at this level we have a few standouts and a lot of players who clearly are not going to make the grade.

Having said all that we ruined a lot of decent chances by poor lineouts in particular and a couple of sloppy scrums just when we looked like we could turn the screw. It's that composure word again unfortunately but all in all very promising. England as usual were good at this level and we gave the a very competitive game.

Well I came down from Scotland 32 years ago for work, and went to Twickenham for the 1st time and witnessed a Scotland victory. Now, having been to every England/Scotland game at Twickenham since, I am retiring and leaving London. Let's hope I go out as I came in.

IrnBroon wrote:Well I came down from Scotland 32 years ago for work, and went to Twickenham for the 1st time and witnessed a Scotland victory. Now, having been to every England/Scotland game at Twickenham since, I am retiring and leaving London. Let's hope I go out as I came in.

I was at that match as well 32 years ago but unlike you I have not been to another England V Scotland at Twickenham since. I am kind of hoping that we win every time I go!

Gee, let's hope ypu work yor magic again tomorrow.
Irn, were you even trying?

Gee have pm-ed you.

jimbopip wrote:Gee, let's hope ypu work yor magic again tomorrow.
Irn, were you even trying?

Gee have pm-ed you.

Yes I saw them, thanks Jimbo. Did you see the last reply at 16.00?

Lets hope we all enjoy the game tomorrow with the right result!

Holy Poopie balls, our women's team just scored a try!!! I repeat our women's just scored a try. This is not a drill people!!!!

So here's to scenes like this tomorrow!

Got my bets on:

Scotland to win with 11 points head start - 19/10

Joseph to score and England win - 9/5

Decent odds!

Come half 6 or so today, as Laidlaw lifts the Calcutta Cup aloft in front of a stunned Twickenham crowd, I'll fight my way to the bar to take advantage of this delightful offer

game face on.

wonder if there's any chance of this match being as good as the 2nd 40 minutes in Cardiff?

fingers crossed.

quinsforever wrote:game face on.

wonder if there's any chance of this match being as good as the 2nd 40 minutes in Cardiff?

fingers crossed.

Hope so. From a Scotland perspective, we'll do well to keep 15 men on the pitch for 80 minutes. Prediction time: England 30 Scotland 13

Hope England can find some motivation from the fact that they have a, rather unexpected, tilt at the title.

Also, I notice that we're playing everyone on a "backlash" from their previous game in this tournament - France on the back of their defeat to Argentina in the autumn, Wales after their defeat to England, Italy after their defeats, England after their defeat to Ireland a couple of weeks ago and next week we'll face an Irish backlash after their defeat today.

Oh dear Burrell.

Now May was chastised for missing a 2 on 1. Will Burrell be?

Total waste...

Awful

That is an almost offensively bad rendition of Flower of Scotland, why so quick and why so...Bavarian sounding? Like a comic version. Awful.

JJ!

Hood83 wrote:That is an almost offensively bad rendition of Flower of Scotland, why so quick and why so...Bavarian sounding? Like a comic version. Awful.

+1, but not as awful as Scotland's start to this match has been!

Pathetic

Hood83 wrote:That is an almost offensively bad rendition of Flower of Scotland, why so quick and why so...Bavarian sounding? Like a comic version. Awful.

I too was thinking it sounded horrific, what were they doing?!

Quick start from England!

Matt Scott what were you thinking.

GLove39 wrote:Pathetic

Reckon we should just start the "Scotland 6N Capitulation and Despair" thread now?

brilliant. jj, nowell, brown, ford. not in that order.

very exciting stuff.

BamBam wrote:

Hood83 wrote:That is an almost offensively bad rendition of Flower of Scotland, why so quick and why so...Bavarian sounding? Like a comic version. Awful.

I too was thinking it sounded horrific, what were they doing?!

It almost sounded deliberate.

I may have to add a "1" to the front of my England score prediction

Scotland woeful so far.

Hood83 wrote:That is an almost offensively bad rendition of Flower of Scotland, why so quick and why so...Bavarian sounding? Like a comic version. Awful.

Didn't think you could make an awful song worse....but it was.

Who said Bennett was better than Joseph?

Scotland seem to have decided not to bother defending which may make for a fun match...

I like Joseph a lot though.

Perfect reply after the first minute mare.

Well England have their 13's.
Joseph and Tuilagi (if he ever gets fit again) offer lovely contrasts.

But by god will we ever find a 12.

Twelvetrees?

This is going to be a cricket score. (Not even an English one, like 87-10 or whatever)

HammerofThunor wrote:Twelvetrees?

Welcome back Courtney Lawes

Ben Youngs endless organising again. Sooooo slooooow

Great work Lawes