6N Round 4: The Calcutta Cup clash

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ENGLAND v SCOTLAND  
Saturday 14 February 2015
KO 17:00 (GMT)
Twickers

Live on BBC1

Referee: Romain Poitey (FFR)
AR1: George Clancy (IRFU)  
AR2: Marius Mitrea (FIR)
TMO: Ben Skeen (NZR)

Teams:

ENGLAND

M Brown (Harlequins); A Watson (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), L Burrell (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter); G Ford (Bath), B Youngs (Leicester); J Marler (Harlequins), D Hartley (Northampton), D Cole (Leicester), D Attwood (Bath), C Lawes (Northampton), J Haskell (Wasps), C Robshaw (Harlequins, capt), B Vunipola (Saracens).

Replacements: T Youngs (Leicester), M Vunipola (Saracens), K Brookes (Newcastle), G Parling (Leicester), T Wood (Northampton), R Wigglesworth (Saracens), D Cipriani (Sale), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester).

SCOTLAND

Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); Dougie Fife (Edinburgh), Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh), Tommy Seymour, Finn Russell (both Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (captn) (Gloucester); Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh), Ross Ford (Edinburgh), Euan Murray (Glasgow Warriors), Jim Hamilton (Saracens), Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors), Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors), Blair Cowan (London Irish) David Denton (Edinburgh).

Replacements: Fraser Brown, Ryan Grant (both Glasgow Warriors), Geoff Cross (London Irish), Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors), Sam Hidalgo-Clyne and Greig Tonks (both Edinburgh)


The result of the Ireland game beforehand could make things very interesting from an English perspective. Tournament could be blown wide open, & see England looking for a big score with an eye to next weekend & things coming down to points difference.

For us, there's nothing at stake bar pride & some melted Indian Rupees.

Twickenham was always going to be tough, but given how things have gone this tournament I'm absolutely dreading this match.
Our record down South is more embarrassing than Natalie Bennett on LBC! 32 long years since we last won at Twickenham and in the last half century we've managed just one other win in 1971. Stretch things back to the whole century and we can double our total with wins in 1926 & 1938!

Fear we'll see a similar game to England - Italy, valiant start by us & some swashbuckling stuff before ultimately being crushed in the final quarter. Although if we 'defend' the maul like we did against Italy the score will be worse.

On the bright side though, scoring any points would be an improvement on last years Calcutta Cup match...

Preconditions people? Am I being too gloomy?

Dropping the ball coming off the post is really poor. Scotland should have kicked the last penalty then England would kick off giving Scotland a chance, what do I know these guys as supposed to be pros!

Well I'm strangely proud of that!

Our defence was God awful, but we gave it a bloody good go!

Especially given the makeshift team from half time

hey, england won. and we also looked really dangerous all over the field in the backs. its not all doom and gloom for england fans. we just didnt finish all our chances. on another day we might only get two and we score both.

commiserations scotland. really competitive match.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Its a win....but by god its was ugly.

So much to work on. Get the flaming basics right...and yet again...TAKE CHANCES!!!!

Ugly is surely the wrong adjective. Some fantastic play, but so many chances butchered.

I guess I now know how Scottish fans feel when they talk about all the chances they create and blow.

John Inverdale - The Championship is now in England's hands. Errr...

Yeah, I was thinking we're a slightly better version of Scotland. How many years have they been creating chances but failing them?

I wonder if this will be the third championship in a row where we've lost because of not finishing chances? (I.e. PD)

(Did Lancaster just say "not many teams beat Scotland"?)

It was like watching Falcons, knock on after knock on in the opponents 22. At least England win though I guess.

LondonTiger wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Its a win....but by god its was ugly.

So much to work on. Get the flaming basics right...and yet again...TAKE CHANCES!!!!

Ugly is surely the wrong adjective. Some fantastic play, but so many chances butchered.

I guess I now know how Scottish fans feel when they talk about all the chances they create and blow.

I wouldn't say fantastic play by any stretch of the imagination.

We made some breaks due to poor defence and butchered those chances.

Lets not confuse this Scotland side with the disciplined Ireland or the coming to form Wales.

Stewie

'Our attacking intent is coming off'

I don't think there is anyone on this thread who believe's england will win the WC on that performance

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well I'm strangely proud of that!

Our defence was God awful, but we gave it a bloody good go!

Especially given the makeshift team from half time

That is a sad state of affairs. You have been beaten down so much you were proud of that terrible terrible performance. 15 mins of good rugby the rest was incompetence

It is because as they play last England will know what they have to do.

B Youngs MOM...hahahahahahaha. Please.

If England had a bit of compose it would have 60 points against us

Youngs was excellent, as was Ford, Lawes and Nowell.

kingelderfield wrote:I don't think there is anyone on this thread who believe's england will win the WC on that performance

They'll struggle in group if they play like that.

Ford has eclipsed Farrell.

England thoroughly deserved that - on another day, you would have won by 30 or 40 points. All the best for next week. Don't reflect too much on this match - you're still up there with the favourites for the WC!

https://www.606v2.com/t58136-the-scottish-6n-wooden-spoon-thread Scottish fans, feel free to post your thoughts on this thread

Well England won the game. but Scotland gave them a bloody good run for there money.

England really need to put those chance to bed, against better teams (NZ AUS SA ) we would of been punished hard for missing those try's.

Riskysports wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well I'm strangely proud of that!

Our defence was God awful, but we gave it a bloody good go!

Especially given the makeshift team from half time

That is a sad state of affairs. You have been beaten down so much you were proud of that terrible terrible performance. 15 mins of good rugby the rest was incompetence

As I said - strangely proud! Just being realistic about where we are.

Yes our defence was truly shambolic but there were some positives.

I'm not saying that was an acceptable performance in any way btw - we really should have lost that by 30 points.

My God that was frustrating. We left at least 20 points on the pitch I reckon. We have gone from having the Championship in our own hands to relying on Scotland and Italy putting in half decent performances against Italy and Wales.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Its a win....but by god its was ugly.

So much to work on. Get the flaming basics right...and yet again...TAKE CHANCES!!!!

Ugly is surely the wrong adjective. Some fantastic play, but so many chances butchered.

I guess I now know how Scottish fans feel when they talk about all the chances they create and blow.

I wouldn't say fantastic play by any stretch of the imagination.

We made some breaks due to poor defence and butchered those chances.

Lets not confuse this Scotland side with the disciplined Ireland or the coming to form Wales.

Ugly may not be the right word, but 'putrefaction' did come to mind.

Perhaps there was a reason why the House of York fought that terrible war against the Lascastrians. Never understood why until now. Was about Rugby. White rose for me.

4 point lead going into next week, if Scotland can play like they did from mins 20-40 today all game next week I'd be very happy

Why, oh WHY Bring Cipriani on with just 3 minutes to go......it is just crazy.

A bit of a weird game that.

Glad to get the win and kudos to the Scots for not giving up but England should really have made the scoreline similar to the Italy game.



Impressed by Nowell today  Ford looked very sharp and worked well with Youngs.

Exciting final day on the cards!

We need a different backrow, preferrably with a 7 (Kvesic?) and Robshaw at 6, plus an IC with some form and confidence.

Haskell could play 6 with a real 7 but at the moment there isn't enough variation across the skill set / link with the backs.

quinsforever wrote:h

commiserations scotland. really competitive match.

Thank you.

England had 11 clean breaks - that's truly abysmal defending

Gwlad wrote:Ford has eclipsed Farrell.

I would agree. He had a very good game today - not just as an attacking 10 but also his reading of the game - one point there was a turnover - hogg put in a really good kick - Ford was there to take it and run it back. some indecision at times but a very good performance overall. has to be first choice now.

However
A good england 10

A puppet

kingelderfield wrote:We need a different backrow, preferrably with a 7 (Kvesic?) and Robshaw at 6, plus an IC with some form and confidence.

Haskell could play 6 with a real 7 but at the moment there isn't enough variation across the skill set / link with the backs.

Its always been the case with the flanks.

Haskell isn't bringing the carrying everyone hoped. When that is the case Wood offers much more.

For the WC:

6 Wood / Robshaw
7 Robshaw / ? Find a 7. Kvesic maybe or is Calum Clark still on fire for Saints.

Hell even consider Vuniopola on the flank with Morgan at 8

26 missed tackles by us!

RDW_Scotland wrote:England had 11 clean breaks - that's truly abysmal defending

And truly abysmal finishing

For Scotland - well it wasn't the thumping we all feared and we created some chances but boy it could have been a cricket score.

As I feared right at the beginning of this campaign injuries in the centres have really cost us - although Tonks had a good game when he came on.
Dancer - a bit of a mixed bag. Some great passes and runs and a couple of brainfarts. Getting caught in goal was stupid. However his defense was good - took down Vunipola 4 times I reckon
Pack - Ok. Didn't get annihilated in the scrums as I feared - probably only because England couldn't push straight. Ickle Jonny missed a tackle. Ok at the breakdown - few breakdown turnovers all game LIneout OK but I'd have li9ke to see them take a couple of England
Hogg in good form.
Fife tried really really hard and played as well as I have seen him.
The messiah played well

6/10

Far too many missed tackles,

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well I'm strangely proud of that!

Our defence was God awful, but we gave it a bloody good go!

Especially given the makeshift team from half time

That is a sad state of affairs. You have been beaten down so much you were proud of that terrible terrible performance. 15 mins of good rugby the rest was incompetence

As I said - strangely proud! Just being realistic about where we are.

Yes our defence was truly shambolic but there were some positives.

I'm not saying that was an acceptable performance in any way btw - we really should have lost that by 30 points.

The reason we cannot be happy with that (other than the fact you should never be happy with a defeat when you are up at half time) is that England didn't fail to convert their chances because of us - they largely beat themselves. How can Glasgow's defensive sequencing and execution be so good but the national side's so abysmal? And it's not the presence of the occasional Fijian before anyone starts.

Just shows - we cannot sustain any injuries to our first choice squad as we simply don't have the depth to cope. Losing Gray, Dunbar, Maitland, Scott and Russell (last week) has been absolutely devastating. It is certainly also true that the number of mistakes does make leaving out experienced internationals like Barclay and Brown look fairly mystifying.

tigertattie wrote:26 missed tackles by us!

Can't win games doing that. Something wrong in the defensive organisation somewhere

Joseph was class - Nowell some good moments but a good few of the missed tackles were Scotland errors not good england play

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Youngs was excellent, as was Ford, Lawes and Nowell.

He was helped in the 2nd half by Scotland putting zero pressure on him or guarding the rucks. In the first half he was terrible.

Every time he gets to the ruck, looks left, looks right, gropes around for hte ball while looking at the number 10. At this point the ball is almost always half a second slower than it needs to be. He then either passes, probably slower than any other NH international scrummie bar Phillips. Or he picks it up, goes to pass one way then spins right around and passes the other. In no instance does he provide anything remotely close to quick ball.

I cannot stand watching him.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:We need a different backrow, preferrably with a 7 (Kvesic?) and Robshaw at 6, plus an IC with some form and confidence.

Haskell could play 6 with a real 7 but at the moment there isn't enough variation across the skill set / link with the backs.

Its always been the case with the flanks.

Haskell isn't bringing the carrying everyone hoped. When that is the case Wood offers much more.

For the WC:

6 Wood / Robshaw
7 Robshaw / ? Find a 7. Kvesic maybe or is Calum Clark still on fire for Saints.

Hell even consider Vuniopola on the flank with Morgan at 8

Honestly Geordie, you and I and others can see the issues, but Lancaster et al won't be making these changes. Robshaw is Lancasters's 7 and we'll probably see Wood at 6 if he find's form and that will be it.

Lancaster has never played a real 7 in a 1st class international

Hood83 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Youngs was excellent, as was Ford, Lawes and Nowell.

He was helped in the 2nd half by Scotland putting zero pressure on him or guarding the rucks. In the first half he was terrible.

Every time he gets to the ruck, looks left, looks right, gropes around for hte ball while looking at the number 10. At this point the ball is almost always half a second slower than it needs to be. He then either passes, probably slower than any other NH international scrummie bar Phillips. Or he picks it up, goes to pass one way then spins right around and passes the other. In no instance does he provide anything remotely close to quick ball.

I cannot stand watching him.

I can't agree Hood, I thought Youngs was excellent. His passing was good and he really tested out the Scotland defence with his delaying of the pass and testing the fringes at times.

I must have misunderstood Laidlaw's interview. He seemed to suggest that England created a couple of chances and were lucky to win.

HammerofThunor wrote:(Did Lancaster just say "not many teams beat Scotland"?)

He did. Then he qualified it by saying "by much".

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Hood83 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Youngs was excellent, as was Ford, Lawes and Nowell.

He was helped in the 2nd half by Scotland putting zero pressure on him or guarding the rucks. In the first half he was terrible.

Every time he gets to the ruck, looks left, looks right, gropes around for hte ball while looking at the number 10. At this point the ball is almost always half a second slower than it needs to be. He then either passes, probably slower than any other NH international scrummie bar Phillips. Or he picks it up, goes to pass one way then spins right around and passes the other. In no instance does he provide anything remotely close to quick ball.

I cannot stand watching him.

I can't agree Hood, I thought Youngs was excellent. His passing was good and he really tested out the Scotland defence with his delaying of the pass and testing the fringes at times.

I thought he was much better in the second half. But i don't think another team would have given him the time to delay. Scotland seemed to stop guarding the rucks. I think he is a massive problem for any team trying to play with quick ball.

Youngs needs to come in for Hartley, much more impact when he came on. Parling and Wood could come in for Attwood and Haskell too, thought they were very busy when they came on.

Don't think we saw much from Burrell but I wouldn't advocate bringing Twelvetrees in for the last week. Slade? Could be a bit of a gamble. Stick with what we had in the backs and wait for Barritt and Tuilagi to get fit.

kingelderfield wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:We need a different backrow, preferrably with a 7 (Kvesic?) and Robshaw at 6, plus an IC with some form and confidence.

Haskell could play 6 with a real 7 but at the moment there isn't enough variation across the skill set / link with the backs.

Its always been the case with the flanks.

Haskell isn't bringing the carrying everyone hoped. When that is the case Wood offers much more.

For the WC:

6 Wood / Robshaw
7 Robshaw / ? Find a 7. Kvesic maybe or is Calum Clark still on fire for Saints.

Hell even consider Vuniopola on the flank with Morgan at 8

Honestly Geordie, you and I and others can see the issues, but Lancaster et al won't be making these changes. Robshaw is Lancasters's 7 and we'll probably see Wood at 6 if he find's form and that will be it.

Lancaster has never played a real 7 in a 1st class international

Too be honest its not necessarily the need for a real '7'. Its just to find some balance.

I don't believe we can put all the carrying responsibility on the 8 - Billy or Morgan. With that we need a 6 or 7 who can really add to that.

I will stand up for Lancs as to be fair...who one earth is putting their hand up for the spots? Haskell did has been given a chance and just not performed.

The only ones who do in every game have been...Wood and Robshaw. So whilst I am critical of Lancs in many areas...some of it really isn't all his doing.
Well of course there is always....big Matt Garvey

TJ wrote:

tigertattie wrote:26 missed tackles by us!

Can't win games doing that.  Something wrong in the defensive organisation somewhere

Joseph was class - Nowell some good moments but a good few of the missed tackles were Scotland errors not good england play

26 out of 112 - almost 1 in every 4 tackles was missed.

Surely that's some kind of record??

Not a great performance really but great to get the win. Typical England really - almost there but not quite clicking. A brave effort by the Scots today with some great attacking play at times.

So apparently Scotland raised their game for you and made you look ordinary. Yet another team that raises their game for England; why does every team on the planet only want to beat England?

For me the key points were:

- Lack of control - I think it comes from us kicking all the time. Bennett, Seymour, Hogg, they all just kicked forward but got no return. We really needed to just keep the ball in hand.
- Not enough firepower - Denton was immense and Ashe did well when he came on but Harley just didn't look quite at his best (think he needs a rest). I'd play Denton and 6 and Ashe at 8 next week.
- Substitutions - I thought Laidlaw was looking tired around the 50 minute mark. Also think Hogg should have moved to centre and Tonks to FB.

At the end of the day, the scoreline doesn't really reflect the performance. England created far too many opportunities (easily) and our pack was bullied. Again.

Tonks is used to playing centre - Hogg is not. Tonks did OK

Hood83 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:England had 11 clean breaks - that's truly abysmal defending

And truly abysmal finishing

That Tom Youngs break had it all. Great timing with his run, great hitting the gap, made tremendous ground, and then that total F up of a pass. You have to give the man credit for making that kind of break (very much in the style of the centre he used to be) but that pass was awful.

Too many fatties not enough skills!