The Indian Wells Masters 1000 Thread

by temporary21 Mon 09 Mar 2015, 5:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

Figured that masters 1000 events deserve their own threads and as such here is your place for all things Indian Wells.

by It Must Be Love Sat 21 Mar 2015, 3:28 pm

summerblues wrote:
temporary21 wrote:I must agree here. Theres far too much glee in a certain player losing, than respect for a player winning.
I must disagree here. Rooting for someone to lose is just as fine as rooting for someone to win.

Not really, it's a bit pathetic imo.

by It Must Be Love Sat 21 Mar 2015, 3:30 pm

temporary21 wrote:Wanting someone to lose is born out of hate and bitterness. Wanting someone to win is out of respect

Agree, it's not even close to equivalent

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 3:33 pm

When you want someone to lose and they do the feeling you get is one of smug satisfaction that the guy you don't like got beat it a fan you don't like of that player is down. It's nowhere near the euphoria you get when someone you support wins. One is joy. Whilst the other makes you a bitter man in the end

by CAS Sat 21 Mar 2015, 3:42 pm

I want a player to lose usually because I fear him playing the player I want to win the tournament, its a respect I want them to lose.

by It Must Be Love Sat 21 Mar 2015, 3:45 pm

CAS wrote:I want a player to lose usually because I fear him playing the player I want to win the tournament, its a respect I want them to lose.

That is very different to what SB is saying.
If you support Federer, and want him to avoid Nadal at the French Open final, then obviously you'd want Nadal to lose in the French Open Semi if Federer's waiting in the final... but that is born out of positivity of wanting Federer to win in the first place.
That is different to literally rooting against a player, ie your primary motivation in watching is simply to see a certain player lose.

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 3:46 pm

I remember the 09 us open final. I was happy not because Delpo won but because he beat federer who I had gained a dislike for him after his gold shirt after wimby that year. I wasn't happy though it just felt like my dislike was vindicated with his loss. Fast forward 4 years I realised it was better to let thing be and respect when the best player won. When Murray won wimby I jumped up and down in tears of joy for about 20 minutes. I can assure you they're nowhere near the same. I have enjoyed sport so much more in the last 3 years than u ever did before

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 3:47 pm

Of course in wanting s player to win then it's implicit that you want another to lose. In that case CAS the emphasis is still you wanting the success of one player not the misery of anothrt

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 3:49 pm

You'll often also see someone wanting a player to lose soo they can wind-up someone they don't like. It's the main problem sports forums nearly always have

by Haddie-nuff Sat 21 Mar 2015, 3:52 pm

CAS wrote:I want a player to lose usually because I fear him playing the player I want to win the tournament, its a respect I want them to lose.

Ohh CAS that is rather a jaundiced view imo. Of course if you are rooting for your player to win you want him to beat the player across the net and therefore to lose obviously but if you enjoy tennis you will want those other players in the tournament who play well to win.. your player cannot depend on winning simply because the better players are being knocked out he has to win on his own merits Not sure Ive explained that too well

by Born Slippy Sat 21 Mar 2015, 3:55 pm

Predictions tonight?

Fed in 2 easy sets for me - 63 62
Djoko in 3 - 62 46 63

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 3:55 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
CAS wrote:I want a player to lose usually because I fear him playing the player I want to win the tournament, its a respect I want them to lose.

Ohh CAS that is rather a jaundiced view imo. Of course if you are rooting for your player to win you want him to beat the player across the net and therefore to lose obviously but if you enjoy tennis you will want those other players in the tournament who play well to win.. your player cannot depend on winning simply because the better players are being knocked out he has to win on his own merits Not sure Ive explained that too well

I get you, and you make a good point, the best player should always deserve to win, if your guys the best he shouldnt need luck.
At least in Cas's case he's got a positive frame of mind, he wants results to fall a certain way to give his guy the best chance, not just "haha he lost and I can boast about it".

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 3:56 pm

Born Slippy wrote:Predictions tonight?

Fed in 2 easy sets for me - 63 62
Djoko in 3 - 62 46 63

Sounds about right to me. I might give Raonic a tiebreak but its rare a guy follows up a first big win with another.

by **laverfan** Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:00 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:So what ??? I cant see why you used Borg as an example in your lecture over comments made about Nadal. I put your comment about Borg into perspective now we are comparing Borg to Pancho.. F...get it

Players need to know when to walk away, if necessary.

Borg's inability to handle his personal life to detract from his Tennis, while another person could take much more just shows strength and weakness.

If Nadal's fans cannot handle his losses, they are fair weather fans only.

On the other side, gloating on his defeats indicates the same weakness, as does gloating on Federer's (or anyone else's losses). This is a sport not a matter of life and death. I am surprised at the emotional trauma due to one loss, or the corresponding high at just one win.

by Belovedluckyboy Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:20 pm

Good posts by temporary21, very well said!

by HM Murdock Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:22 pm

Silver wrote:Novak probably finds him harder to break down than other players for this reason. His stock game can beat the rest of the tour, but unless Federer has an off-day, Novak is pushed out of his comfort zone more than against other players. That being said...Djokovic is still the man, and #1 for a very good reason. He is a better player than Federer these days, but the match-up doesn't really suit him as much as others. It'd be interesting to hear socal/HM/slasher weigh in on this?

I think you are exactly right.

Novak is challenged by players who can stop him getting into a rhythm. Federer's variety and improvisational skill make him about the best at doing this. Murray at his best does it well too.

I also think Federer still has a bit of a psychological hold over Novak. It's very common for Novak to start nervously against him, and serving out sets and matches is frequently more painful than it should be.

As for last night, I see it as a significant step forward for Milos but not a disaster for Rafa. If one point had gone the other way in the tie break, Rafa would have won in straight sets and we'd all be here wondering why Milos is so ineffective against the top 3. It was a match of small margins and Milos' progress is not the win in itself but the resolve it took to do so.

I don't mind Raonic. I'm not a big fan of his game (although it is improving, no doubt) but I like his attitude. I really get the sense that he tries to learn from defeats and get better.

Predictions for today:
Murray snaps the losing the streak and Fed handles the Raonic serve.

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:24 pm

Yeah, some can't take the loss of their fav. player, and resort to attacking the posters who like the opposing player/winner.

Move it up baby.

by It Must Be Love Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:25 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:
Silver wrote:Novak probably finds him harder to break down than other players for this reason. His stock game can beat the rest of the tour, but unless Federer has an off-day, Novak is pushed out of his comfort zone more than against other players. That being said...Djokovic is still the man, and #1 for a very good reason. He is a better player than Federer these days, but the match-up doesn't really suit him as much as others. It'd be interesting to hear socal/HM/slasher weigh in on this?
I think you are exactly right.

Novak is challenged by players who can stop him getting into a rhythm. Federer's variety and improvisational skill make him about the best at doing this. Murray at his best does it well too.

I also think Federer still has a bit of a psychological hold over Novak. It's very common for Novak to start nervously against him, and serving out sets and matches is frequently more painful than it should be.

As for last night, I see it as a significant step forward for Milos but not a disaster for Rafa. If one point had gone the other way in the tie break, Rafa would have won in straight sets and we'd all be here wondering why Milos is so ineffective against the top 3. It was a match of small margins and Milos' progress is not the win in itself but the resolve it took to do so.

I don't mind Raonic. I'm not a big fan of his game (although it is improving, no doubt) but I like his attitude. I really get the sense that he tries to learn from defeats and get better.

Predictions for today:
Murray snaps the losing the streak and Fed handles the Raonic serve.

Good post, but I disagree with the Djokovic prediction.
Djokovic to win in 3 sets, Federer to win in 2 sets.

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:26 pm

HMM, since you are the master of sugar-coating and being neutral and a well behaved fan, I will tell you that YES, this is a disaster for Rafa, and he will not win the RG, his demise will be faster then his hair loss Laugh

by It Must Be Love Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:28 pm

Jahu wrote:Yeah, some can't take the loss of their fav. player, and resort to attacking the posters who like the opposing player/winner.

Move it up baby.

Actually Jahu, if you actually paid attention to what myself and Temp were saying, there's nothing wrong with people supporting anyone because they like them or want them to win, or it's because they have the interests of their favourite player in mind (my Fed-Nadal FO example).
However what is slightly pathetic is people who follow tennis with the primary motivation to root against a specific player.

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:31 pm

People get annoyed usually because a hateful person winds them up when the player loses.If you show no respect to someone you'll get none back, the result is the mods having to stop watching the rugby/ tennis to deal with it

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:32 pm

IMBL, stop recycling same stuff over and over. and over and over, smartie pants.

Its a forum for fun, not a Psychological Analysis Group, so chill and stop taking the moral high ground.

Life's too short to come here and take seriously what others think it's the right thing.

Enjoy life buddy.

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:34 pm

temporary21 wrote:People get annoyed usually because a hateful person winds them up when the player loses.If you show no respect to someone you'll get none back, the result is the mods having to stop watching the rugby/ tennis to deal with it

Yes but, honestly you miscalculated the wind up on the player with the windup on the poster from another poster, last night.

Though I like your quick sword wielding here thumbsup

by CaledonianCraig Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:35 pm

It Must Be Love wrote:
Jahu wrote:Yeah, some can't take the loss of their fav. player, and resort to attacking the posters who like the opposing player/winner.

Move it up baby.
Actually Jahu, if you actually paid attention to what myself and Temp were saying, there's nothing wrong with people supporting anyone because they like them or want them to win, or it's because they have the interests of their favourite player in mind (my Fed-Nadal FO example).
However what is slightly pathetic is people who follow tennis with the primary motivation to root against a specific player.

Especially, when the victor of that match has been lambasted across these forums for not being up to much for years. Look back through discussions on the weak look to youngsters coming through and Raonic is lumped into that group without exception. I recall no one on here proclaiming enjoying watching Raonic play (that is not to rubbish him as a player) but just pointing out that he has no fans - until last night oddly enough. I wonder why? I'll answer that - Rafa Nadal was playing and if he won he'd have played Federer in the semi.

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:36 pm

In short... Im not stupid. The disrespect and ignoring of mods, as well as winding other posters up will not be ignored today.

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:37 pm

CC, I've support Raonic always, even LF has made a legendary joke about Raonic.

I know none of the new guys are special, raonic, dolgo, dimi, etc but I kind of want these new guys to make it a good show,

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:39 pm

temporary21 wrote:In short... Im not stupid. The disrespect and ignoring of mods, as well as winding other posters up will not be ignored today.

Where is that coming from?

Yes, no winding of other posters, but allow some player windup and if the poster turns it into a fight with a fellow poster, then kick some ass.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:41 pm

temporary21 wrote:In short... Im not stupid. The disrespect and ignoring of mods, as well as winding other posters up will not be ignored today.

Well said. We are here to discuss tennis and have fun (not at other people's/or players expense).

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:43 pm

There's windup and then there's disrespect. Make sure all of you know the difference. Anything else? Or shall we move on?

by CAS Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:43 pm

temporary21 wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:
CAS wrote:I want a player to lose usually because I fear him playing the player I want to win the tournament, its a respect I want them to lose.

Ohh CAS that is rather a jaundiced view imo. Of course if you are rooting for your player to win you want him to beat the player across the net and therefore to lose obviously but if you enjoy tennis you will want those other players in the tournament who play well to win.. your player cannot depend on winning simply because the better players are being knocked out he has to win on his own merits Not sure Ive explained that too well
I get you, and you make a good point, the best player should always deserve to win, if your guys the best he shouldnt need luck.
At least in Cas's case he's got a positive frame of mind, he wants results to fall a certain way to give his guy the best chance, not just "haha he lost and I can boast about it".

I'm a big Andy Murray fan, I did not want Djokovic to beat Ferrer in the SFs in 2012, Murray had lost 4 slam finals and I wanted a slam for him so badly, especially after his interview after the Wimbledon final. I like Djokovic, find him quite an engaging character and watching him hit one of his split step backhands is one of my favourite shots in the sport. It was nothing personal towards Djokovic, I just wanted Murray to have the best chance of winning.

I see your point about wanting the better player to win, however we all know sport is emotional. I am also a huge Federer fan, and I would be lying if I said I wasn't fist pumping throughout Soderlings match against Nadal at Roland Garros '09 and I'm sure I'm not the only one! I don't dislike Nadal I just wanted Federer to get the career slam and I knew that meant he would likely need a hand to do it!

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:46 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
temporary21 wrote:In short... Im not stupid. The disrespect and ignoring of mods, as well as winding other posters up will not be ignored today.

Well said. We are here to discuss tennis and have fun (not at other people's/or players expense).

Right CC, we are not all 46y old or members of the local Conservative Club.

Let's all ban the fun/windup/flirting/(insert your favorite fetish) here please, and pretend we are serious tennis experts. warning

It's all good here, bit of everything, no need to tighten it up.

by HM Murdock Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:46 pm

Jahu wrote:HMM, since you are the master of sugar-coating and being neutral and a well behaved fan, I will tell you that YES, this is a disaster for Rafa, and he will not win the RG, his demise will be faster then his hair loss

OK, I stand corrected! Very Happy

Actually, as things stand, I'm beginning to think that this year may not see Nadal's name on the Coupe des Mousquetaires.

Not because he is playing badly (he's not) but I think his level has dropped enough that he is within striking distance of a few players if they have a good day and he's a bit off. I think we are past the stage of only Djokovic having a chance of laying a glove on him.

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:48 pm

Agree, I for once do not see Nadal playing 5h matches.

For now only Djoko and Andy can play those long SF/F matches, not Nadal or Fed.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:48 pm

CAS wrote:
temporary21 wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:
CAS wrote:I want a player to lose usually because I fear him playing the player I want to win the tournament, its a respect I want them to lose.

Ohh CAS that is rather a jaundiced view imo. Of course if you are rooting for your player to win you want him to beat the player across the net and therefore to lose obviously but if you enjoy tennis you will want those other players in the tournament who play well to win.. your player cannot depend on winning simply because the better players are being knocked out he has to win on his own merits Not sure Ive explained that too well
I get you, and you make a good point, the best player should always deserve to win, if your guys the best he shouldnt need luck.
At least in Cas's case he's got a positive frame of mind, he wants results to fall a certain way to give his guy the best chance, not just "haha he lost and I can boast about it".

I'm a big Andy Murray fan, I did not want Djokovic to beat Ferrer in the SFs in 2012, Murray had lost 4 slam finals and I wanted a slam for him so badly, especially after his interview after the Wimbledon final. I like Djokovic, find him quite an engaging character and watching him hit one of his split step backhands is one of my favourite shots in the sport. It was nothing personal towards Djokovic, I just wanted Murray to have the best chance of winning.

I see your point about wanting the better player to win, however we all know sport is emotional. I am also a huge Federer fan, and I would be lying if I said I didn't wasn't fist pumping throughout Soderlings match against Nadal at Roland Garros '09 and I'm sure I'm not the only one! I don't dislike Nadal I just wanted Federer to get the career slam and I knew that meant he would likely need a hand to do it!

I'd guess though CAS that you kept all those desires for Djoko defeat etc to yourself in the privacy of your own home. You never sat on a forum pouring your glee onto a forum laced with criticism of him and talking up his victor. That is the issue for me - going onto a forum and pretending to be a supporter of the other player or liking his tennis when all you are doing is wanting a player to lose desperately.

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:53 pm

There exists a way to have fun not explicitly at someone else's expense. Such is the whole point of the conversation. This forum caters to all people, including 46 year olds. The mods here know when teasing turns to disrespect, not you Jahu.

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:56 pm

tempo of course, my point is people here should enjoy the debate, but also a little windups and whatever.

Moaning at the mods here or on PM's that this poster or that poster said this to me, so do something, is a joke.

But anyway, we should all play nice (mostly).

by **laverfan** Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:58 pm

Jahu wrote:CC, I've support Raonic always, even LF has made a legendary joke about Raonic.

I know none of the new guys are special, raonic, dolgo, dimi, etc but I kind of want these new guys to make it a good show,

My joke is specific to the Gunter Grass/Mhalke/Sugar solution/coiffed hair. He reminds me a bit of Tintin with that hair style.

To be able to serve at 140mph+ consistently requires a skill beyond many of us on these forums. The invention of the term 'servebot' is equally denigrating as is 'moonballer'.

Nadal could serve at 135, Raonic at 140-144, Federer does not get to 130+, but Pospisil and many others can. If Raonic is a servebot, by the same token, Nadal is one too.

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 4:59 pm

Jahu wrote:tempo of course, my point is people here should enjoy the debate, but also a little windups and whatever.

Moaning at the mods here or on PM's that this poster or that poster said this to me, so do something, is a joke.

But anyway, we should all play nice (mostly).

You misunderstand, noones pm'ed or moaned at any of the mods, we're capable of deciding for ourselves, yesterday was over the line, no repeats from anyone please.

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:01 pm

This is now the end of the matter.

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:01 pm

True, but personally I value more a servebot for his skill, then just plain moonballing, which is not such a hard skill.

Though with Raonic i like his cool well behaved stance, same as I like Ferrer for his calm behavior, thought both totally different pleayer.

And your knob joke is a legend Laugh

by CAS Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:02 pm

I agree, the only time I get my back up is when people insult players to big up a player they like. Basically playground bullying, calling someone fat because you are insecure about themselves

by temporary21 Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:02 pm

Its just as well no top player ive ever seen moonballs. By its very definition, thats an incorrect statement.

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:04 pm

temporary21 wrote:This is now the end of the matter.

No PM, but HN peddled a few times my dodgy line to make sure you saw it and for you to do something about it, up to a legal issue and then IMBL came to HN's help with some of his explanations, which was amusing.

Ok, I give up now on last night, and enjoy tonight.

by CAS Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:08 pm

I play a lot of tennis and I chuck in a moon ball now again, sometimes you have to do anything to win if you are being outplayed.

I also agree people make out that a great server is almost cheating, even Rafa would hit an ace every point if he could as would Novak, they are incredible baselines but why would they put themselves through that if they could do what Raonic could? If it was easy everyone would do it. That being said, it doesn't make them the most entertaining! However, endless rallies isn't either. I think most players have a good blend.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:09 pm

Anyways I agree with Born Slippy's predictions for tonight. Federer to win in two sets and Djokovic to win in three.

by CAS Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:15 pm

what players have beaten Federer and Nadal in the same tournament? Off the top of my head, Nalbandian, Djokovic, Murray and Del Potro...any more?

by bogbrush Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:31 pm

It's funny how posters get to both complain about others behaviour, putting themselves on some kind of moral high ground, AND simultaneously pronounce that other posters are lying about their motivations - something they cannot prove.

And I'm not a fan of one moderators "I know where you live" style of warning.

by Haddie-nuff Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:35 pm

f Nadal's fans cannot handle his losses, they are fair weather fans only.

Not sure where you are going with this LF. I sincerely hope that remark is not aimed at me.. I have stuck with Rafa for almost his entire career and cheered his wins and wept at his losses. Never once, as anyone on this forum would surely agree, have I ever failed to be the fan he would hope for. Remarks can be made from disappointment rather betrayal. As for Borg, I wish he could come back tomorrow with all the failings you appear to believe he had. I too watched his career to its conclusion. WEAK??? the iceman are you kidding me ???

by It Must Be Love Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:36 pm

bogbrush wrote: AND pronounce that posters are lying about their motivations - something they cannot prove.

What are you talking about ? Summerblues has been very clear from the start that he roots against Nadal, and has personally confirmed it to me.

bogbrush wrote:It's funny how posters get to both complain about others behaviour, putting themselves on done kind of moral high ground

I'm not complaining about SB's behaviour ? And I didn't mention morals, I simply think having an attitude where you are focused on gaining happiness from someone else's misery is fundamentally different from if your motivations in watching tennis are more positive in nature.

by Haddie-nuff Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:38 pm

bogbrush wrote:It's funny how posters get to both complain about others behaviour, putting themselves on some kind of moral high ground, AND simultaneously pronounce that other posters are lying about their motivations - something they cannot prove.

And I'm not a fan of one moderators "I know where you live" style of warning.

You accusing other posters of putting themselves on some moral high ground ... YOU??? Well Ill go to the foot of my stairs.
Oh sorry I dont have any Rolling Eyes

by Jahu Sat 21 Mar 2015, 5:41 pm

I think we need Dr.Frasier Crane or even better Niles, to give us a qualified analysis as to is it acceptable to root against a player and does that make you a sick person for some therapy picard

Nadal loses last night, and the whole Tennis Forum posters who don't support Nadal, have become targets of a psychological analysis from fellow posters Laugh

blla blla blla.

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