The Indian Wells Masters 1000 Thread

by temporary21 Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

Figured that masters 1000 events deserve their own threads and as such here is your place for all things Indian Wells.

by CaledonianCraig Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:03 pm

Danny_1982 wrote:I don't think Andy has ever looked more inferior to Novak. Well played Novak, but really poor from Andy. It was like a continuation of the last set and a half in the AO final.

Worst of all, his serving performance was utterly abysmal. First and second. Must be bad for Novak to mention it after. I'm not sure Murray's best would have pushed Novak today, looked like he had plenty of gears spare... But dear me. Where was the intensity?

It is the sort of showings he had in slams against the top players. Just sitting too far behind the baseline sitting and waiting to get picked off and first serve stats were terrible.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:08 pm

Come on Raonic, give us a show, if not a win Smile

by HM Murdock Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:12 pm

What I find surprising is that Andy always used to have a (good) arrogance toward his match up with Novak.

I've felt in the past that Andy was a bit reverential toward Rafa but he always gave the impression he thought he had the beating of Novak. Even when Novak started pulling ahead in his career achievement, I didn't think Andy considered Novak a superior player.

He seems to have lost that belief. We see flashes where he troubles Novak, but his performances against him have become very confused and frequently very passive and inaccurate.

I would never have expected that to develop in this match up.

by CaledonianCraig Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:17 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:What I find surprising is that Andy always used to have a (good) arrogance toward his match up with Novak.

I've felt in the past that Andy was a bit reverential toward Rafa but he always gave the impression he thought he had the beating of Novak. Even when Novak started pulling ahead in his career achievement, I didn't think Andy considered Novak a superior player.

He seems to have lost that belief. We see flashes where he troubles Novak, but his performances against him have become very confused and frequently very passive and inaccurate.

I would never have expected that to develop in this match up.

For me it is a mental thing. I think you can almost now compartmentalize Andy's career. Pre-injury/back surgery and what he achieved is now irrelevant to the here and now. He needs to re-prove that post-operation he can beat Novak and at the moment he is nowhere near that point.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:19 pm

Andys since surgery is 0:11 agasint Djoko, Nadal, Fed.

Bring Lendl back now!!!

by Danny_1982 Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:28 pm

Jahu wrote:Andys since surgery is 0:11 agasint Djoko, Nadal, Fed.

Bring Lendl back now!!!

Lendl even stopped him practicing with those three. Said he had to start treating them like the enemy. A little of that adversarial intensity had been lost on Andy's side in my view. He certainly started today like it was s knock up with his mate.

What is it Micky says in Rocky 3... "You ain't been hungry since you won that belt"

by summerblues Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:29 pm

Made it home just for some Federer vs Rao action.

Good luck, Roger!

by Haddie-nuff Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:30 pm

Jahu wrote:Andys since surgery is 0:11 agasint Djoko, Nadal, Fed.

Bring Lendl back now!!!

There is nothing overall wrong with Andy's game imo (apart from his second serve) He still has not mastered the ability to stay in the moment. His mindset is and always has been his problem He has visibly improved on it but there is much more work to do
No tennis coach can help with that aspect of his game he is the one who can change it but he is leaving it ever so slightly late.

by CaledonianCraig Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:30 pm

I still think it really is now a new start since his surgery. Physically he can do it but now he mentally has to do it and to date he just hasn't been at the races in that department.

by summerblues Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:31 pm

Cool point.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:33 pm

HN, he has somehow become docile, bit of a girly boy I'd say.

Lendl manned him up, no shouting, no fighting with himself, father figure, probably slapped Andy a few times, etc etc.

3 girls in his life are too much of an effect on him Whistle

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:34 pm

Danny_1982 wrote:
Jahu wrote:Andys since surgery is 0:11 agasint Djoko, Nadal, Fed.

Bring Lendl back now!!!

Lendl even stopped him practicing with those three. Said he had to start treating them like the enemy. A little of that adversarial intensity had been lost on Andy's side in my view. He certainly started today like it was s knock up with his mate.

What is it Micky says in Rocky 3... "You ain't been hungry since you won that belt"

Micky got it right, and you too with intensity lost, as I said on a comment above, Andy has become a softie, he has lost some arrogance and and ruthlessness.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:38 pm

Fed not at his element like yesterday.

Milo looks not that bad from yesterday, not tired.

by summerblues Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:40 pm

temporary21 wrote:Wanting someone to lose is born out of hate and bitterness. Wanting someone to win is out of respect

This is rather disrespectful moralizing.

I pretty much always root against Rafa and I am pretty sure it is neither out of hate nor out of bitterness. I quite enjoy watching his matches, he wins plenty of them and good for him, it does not bother me the least.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:42 pm

sb, you have been main subject of psycho analysis today, well done Laugh

by Haddie-nuff Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:43 pm

Jahu wrote:HN, he has somehow become docile, bit of a girly boy I'd say.

Lendl manned him up, no shouting, no fighting with himself, father figure, probably slapped Andy a few times, etc

3 girls in his life are too much of an effect on him

I dont think that at all.. he has been schooled to control his tantrums and body language on court which has been achieved by his coaches.
But it doesn't control how he is thinking. Only he has the ability to control how he approaches the game mentally. I have always believe that Andy has the tennis ability to beat anyone out there. As do many of the ex pros.. The mental aspect is also what hurts his second serve. The fear factor !! Frankly I wish he would go for broke..I am not now sure if he has the determination to come face to face with his demons

by CaledonianCraig Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:44 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
Jahu wrote:HN, he has somehow become docile, bit of a girly boy I'd say.

Lendl manned him up, no shouting, no fighting with himself, father figure, probably slapped Andy a few times, etc

3 girls in his life are too much of an effect on him

I dont think that at all.. he has been schooled to control his tantrums and body language on court which has been achieved by his coaches.
But it doesn't control how he is thinking. Only he has the ability to control how he approaches the game mentally. I have always believe that Andy has the tennis ability to beat anyone out there. As do many of the ex pros.. The mental aspect is also what hurts his second serve. The fear factor !! Frankly I wish he would go for broke..I am not now sure if he has the determination to come face to face with his demons

Absolutely Hn. thumbsup

by summerblues Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:45 pm

Jahu wrote:sb, you have been main subject of psycho analysis today, well done

Indeed. But I think it should be psychoanalysis or else it could have a different meaning.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:47 pm

HN, sure, but since Andy has 2 GS and the much vaunted W, I don't know why he does not get to attacking tennis, he is not that defensive as Rafa and Djoko and can attack nicely.

He should relax and kick ass, and forget his demons.

P.S: CC, stop agreeing and complimenting every HN post, getting a little lonely in London are we? Laugh

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:47 pm

summerblues wrote:
Jahu wrote:sb, you have been main subject of psycho analysis today, well done
Indeed. But I think it should be psychoanalysis or else it could have a different meaning.

Agree, shows the quality of shrinks here in the Forum is low.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:52 pm

Fed breaks, finally.

Serving for the set, 6:5.

by CaledonianCraig Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:52 pm

Jahu wrote:HN, sure, but since Andy has 2 GS and the much vaunted W, I don't know why he does not get to attacking tennis, he is not that defensive as Rafa and Djoko and can attack nicely.

He should relax and kick ass, and forget his demons.

P.S: CC, stop agreeing and complimenting every HN post, getting a little lonely in London are we?

This it how it works. I agree with who makes sensible comments. Wink

by summerblues Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:53 pm

Nice break. Very cool.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:55 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Jahu wrote:HN, sure, but since Andy has 2 GS and the much vaunted W, I don't know why he does not get to attacking tennis, he is not that defensive as Rafa and Djoko and can attack nicely.

He should relax and kick ass, and forget his demons.

P.S: CC, stop agreeing and complimenting every HN post, getting a little lonely in London are we?

This it how it works. I agree with who makes sensible comments.

Haha, I'm not 46, but I've been a few times around the block, so I get your vibe thumbsup

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:59 pm

Set 1 for Fed, so tomorrow the best match up for last 3-4y with Djoko.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:01 pm

Fed screaming, hahaha been some years.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:02 pm

..and then the amazing point.

by bogbrush Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:03 pm

Just magical.

by summerblues Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:04 pm

Mesmerizing tennis from Roger.

Rao needs to show what he is made of. He had better found something extra quickly or this could run away from him.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:07 pm

Apart from Ivanisevic and his second serve aces, I think Fed is the second player on the list, that pulls Aces most when he needs them.

Saved so many times in tight situations.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:10 pm

Who is the blondie with silly glasses?

by summerblues Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:16 pm

Federer getting a touch too casual - I think he thinks he won already. If he is not careful, it could become costly.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:19 pm

If Fed plays at this level tomorrow, he is going home in 2 sets.

But with Djoko, he gets fired up nicely.

Raonic needs urgently some decent clothes, even Berdys pajamas were better this Raos hideous style.

by bogbrush Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:20 pm

Federer very much dropping the focus now, has to watch it.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:37 pm

Fed takes it, shaky in the end.

by summerblues Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:38 pm

Well done Roger, nice and easy overall, but Rao should have taken that point at 0-30 and could have made it more interesting in the end.

by HM Murdock Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:38 pm

So, Fedovic XXXVIII it is then!

Should be good. My prediction is that it will be a bit like Dubai - a close match where the winner is the one whose natural game is best supported by the court.

In this case, that's Djokovic.

I'll say in 3.

by bogbrush Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:40 pm

Yeah, Federer kind of switched it off after failing to break at 2-0. Bit of an anti-climax after the magical period across the sets.

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:40 pm

Did what he had to against a big server/FH. A rematch coming up in the final should be a cracker zen

by bogbrush Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:40 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:So, Fedovic XXXVIII it is then!

Should be good. My prediction is that it will be a bit like Dubai - a close match where the winner is the one whose natural game is best supported by the court.

In this case, that's Djokovic.

I'll say in 3.

Yeah, probably about right. Grr.

by Haddie-nuff Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:41 pm

Raonic gave Roger too many chances and never took advantage of his own
Don't think Novak will let him off so lightly Should be a tighter match than we have had today

by bogbrush Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:43 pm

I must say Annabel is looking very sharp. She's coming up to 49 you know.

by HM Murdock Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:51 pm

bogbrush wrote:
HM Murdoch wrote:So, Fedovic XXXVIII it is then!

Should be good. My prediction is that it will be a bit like Dubai - a close match where the winner is the one whose natural game is best supported by the court.

In this case, that's Djokovic.

I'll say in 3.
Yeah, probably about right. Grr.

Not a prediction I make with a great deal of confidence though!

As a minor side note, if Fed extends the head-to-head to 21-17 tomorrow, that starts to become tricky to overhaul. It would need five wins to pull ahead and I think it will probably take around a year or so for them to even play each other five more times.

But if it closes to 20-18, I think Novak's prospects of ever pulling ahead in the match up will look much better.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:53 pm

bogbrush wrote:I must say Annabel is looking very sharp. She's coming up to 49 you know.

Yeah, the best thing today on both matches on TV, have been her legs.

by socal1976 Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:53 pm

Worst Andy has played against Novak in a long time. Murray has to find away to turn this losing streak against Novak around. He has to know that for the big trophies he will have to at some point go through Novak most of the times. I agree with Danny. It didn't even look like Andy was pushing Novak and the gap between the two has never appeared larger than this. His second serve was actually not as bad his first, he won right around 50 percent of the points when he got his first serve in. For an ATP pro that is a shocking number.

by Jahu Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:54 pm

HMM, please voice it now, will you be watching the match tomorrow?

Don't do your usual, that when Djoko loses, you never watch the match Laugh

by socal1976 Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:55 pm

As for Federer v. Raonic I knew Raonic would most likely lose in this manner. Roger is a tougher match up for him than Nadal. He just has no clue how to return Roger. Federer knows he only needs an odd break to win that match. Plus his slice backhand just tortured the big tall Raonic.

by HM Murdock Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:58 pm

Jahu wrote:HMM, please voice it now, will you be watching the match tomorrow?

Don't do your usual, that when Djoko loses, you never watch the match

Ha! Yes, I'll be watching tomorrow.

By "watching", I of course mean "wandering around the house, finding things to distract me me because I'm getting too nervous"...

by socal1976 Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:58 pm

I like Djokovic in two close sets tomorrow. The conditions really suit his style of play a great deal. It is going to be tough, Roger is playing wonderfully. Wouldn't be surprised if Roger could pull it off, he looks really good since his loss early at the AO.

by Haddie-nuff Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:58 pm

socal1976 wrote:As for Federer v. Raonic I knew Raonic would most likely lose in this manner. Roger is a tougher match up for him than Nadal. He just has no clue how to return Roger. Federer knows he only needs an odd break to win that match. Plus his slice backhand just tortured the big tall Raonic.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion Socal until yesterday Raonic had never beaten Nadal in five previous meetings

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